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Post by JAS Tue 02 Sep 2014, 6:30 am

First topic message reminder :

McLaren wrote:Right now I would rather we still had Wellbeck and little pea and that Falcao had never arrived.  Not too impressed by the signing of Di Maria either.

"We"?? I'm surprised you associate yourself to an organisation that has squandered over £135 this summer, whilst there are homeless people on the streets and starving children in the world!! They could have spent £135m on those things and left the squad alone, finishing top half would still be ok wouldn't it? Especially if so many peoples lives were improved by redirecting transfer monies to charity.

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Post by gaelgowfer Fri 05 Sep 2014, 12:29 pm

gw wrote:Did anyone see the news about the two guys, one on death row for 30 years, wrongly jailed for the r*** and murder of an 11 year old girl, freed after DNA test and false statements were uncovered? Incredible story,what I found amazing was little has been said about the corrupt police officers tricking these guys into signing confessions. Only in 1983, makes you wonder just how innocent people have received the death penalty.

What makes this whole story particularly repugnant is that the half-brothers were mentally impaired.  Makes one question standard of defence lawyers too.

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 05 Sep 2014, 12:29 pm

gw,
Not to mention that they were both teenagers with certified low IQ.

It's not just the police who were at fault either, the prosecutors and entire legal process were just as much to blame - you'll see the same pattern of mindless racism when the Federal enquiry in to last month's police murder of a black teenager in the St.Louis area, most likely.

But the entire system here is rife with racism, and if Republicans take control of the Senate in November it will become even more glaringly obvious.

gael, Snap!

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Post by incontinentia Fri 05 Sep 2014, 12:31 pm

Yes I read that story briefly GW, similar to what happened to the Guilford 4 in many ways. They would have been executed too if the death penalty hadnt been abolished a few years earlier.
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Post by gaelgowfer Fri 05 Sep 2014, 12:34 pm

incontinentia wrote:There was a wind farm put up behind my homeplace this year (well, about 1 km as the crow flies). There is a bit of a swish sound off them but other than that they're not much hassle.

Noise pollution is becoming more of an issue.

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Post by gaelgowfer Fri 05 Sep 2014, 12:35 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:gw,
Not to mention that they were both teenagers with certified low IQ.

It's not just the police who were at fault either, the prosecutors and entire legal process were just as much to blame - you'll see the same pattern of mindless racism when the Federal enquiry in to last month's police murder of a black teenager in the St.Louis area, most likely.

But the entire system here is rife with racism, and if Republicans take control of the Senate in November it will become even more glaringly obvious.

gael, Snap!

Great minds kwini ...great minds. Whistle

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Post by gaelgowfer Fri 05 Sep 2014, 12:42 pm

Diggers wrote:Not really Gael, everyone sits on the sidelines and criticises. It's an impossible task to please everyone and the option is to say all politicians are just crap and self interested.
I don't believe that to be the case but even if you choose to push your own beliefs then at least you are out there standing up for what you believe in. Is that such a bad thing?

Still trying to make up my mind as to whether or not you're on the wind-up here as it seems, in this day and age of self-serving, career-driven politicians, a very naïve point of view but then I remembered you're a wet liberal so you probably meant it!

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Post by Davie Fri 05 Sep 2014, 1:45 pm

The residents of my old home town complain bitterly about the wind farms in Morecambe Bay/Irish Sea - but I find them quite attractive!

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Post by Shotrock Fri 05 Sep 2014, 1:53 pm

When was the last time the Open Championship was held at a course outside of Great Britain??


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Post by Diggers Fri 05 Sep 2014, 1:55 pm

Depends what you want from your sea view I guess. I don't really like them and am glad we don't have them off our part of the coast, but of they did come along and were efficient Id have to go along with it.
It's not like a nuclear or coal power station is easy on the eye.

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 05 Sep 2014, 2:09 pm

Sr:
Technically speaking:1951 @ Royal Portrush.


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Post by golfermartin Fri 05 Sep 2014, 2:12 pm

Shotrock wrote:When was the last time the Open Championship was held at a course outside of Great Britain??

 

1951 when it was in Northern Ireland

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Post by SmithersJones Fri 05 Sep 2014, 3:19 pm

And strictly speaking it could be held anywhere in the world outside of USA & Mexico, as it's the R&A's Open Championship, and their jurisdiction is everywhere outside of those two countries, iirc. And they're based in Scotland, so I'd worry about St Georges losing it before St Andrews.
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Post by incontinentia Fri 05 Sep 2014, 3:21 pm

Wouldn't it be great to have a Major that travelled around the world?
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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 05 Sep 2014, 3:51 pm

Wouldn't it be great to have a "World Golf Championship" that travelled around the world?

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Post by incontinentia Fri 05 Sep 2014, 3:59 pm

I'll drink to that kwin! Ale
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Post by Diggers Fri 05 Sep 2014, 4:24 pm

Wouldn't it be great to have a moon that travelled around the world...

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Post by Shotrock Fri 05 Sep 2014, 5:07 pm


1951 ... wot a long time ago.

(Tottenham fans don't even have to go back that far!)

Calling it the "British Open" is plenty appropriate!

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Post by pedro Fri 05 Sep 2014, 5:12 pm

Wouldn't it be great to have a Tour that didn't travel around the world?

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Post by Diggers Fri 05 Sep 2014, 5:15 pm

Always makes me laugh that it's meant to be just yanks that call it the British Open. You can include every European, Aussie and Saffer on that list. Not to mention half the UK players as well, I'm sure I saw Rose call it the British Open though to be fair he is a citizen of the world in many ways.

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Post by gw Fri 05 Sep 2014, 8:14 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:gw,
Not to mention that they were both teenagers with certified low IQ.

It's not just the police who were at fault either, the prosecutors and entire legal process were just as much to blame - you'll see the same pattern of mindless racism when the Federal enquiry in to last month's police murder of a black teenager in the St.Louis area, most likely.

But the entire system here is rife with racism, and if Republicans take control of the Senate in November it will become even more glaringly obvious.

gael, Snap!
Indeed kwini, shameful. Has there been any questions asked over there about the way they were convicted? I couldn't believe it when I read the reports that it just seemed like a side issue!

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 05 Sep 2014, 8:30 pm

gw,
We're a long way from the situation there in North Carolina - this is not an unusual occurrence, sad to say, convictions by convenience it looks like with hindsight.
Occasionally one hears about action taken against police, prosecutor, defence or judge, but more often there seems to be outrage for about twenty minutes and nothing more is heard about it.
Remember also that there isn't really a national newspaper so coverage outside a narrow geographical area is pretty sketchy.

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 05 Sep 2014, 8:58 pm

Strange business off the coast of Jamaica.
A private jet looks like it's done a Payne Stewart look-alike as it crashed into the sea hundreds of miles beyond its intended destination. No contact could be made by scrambled fighters and the private jet had frosted windows.
Plane owned by a company that looks very much as if it's is related to the Glazers of Man Utd infamy, though the likely victim is not one of Malcolm's sons.

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Post by gaelgowfer Sun 07 Sep 2014, 11:13 am

Well, well well, the 'Yesses' have finally got their noses in front.  Question is ... is it too soon and is it possible that a Scottish equivalent of the 'Quebec effect' could kick in at the eleventh hour?

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Post by Diggers Sun 07 Sep 2014, 6:36 pm

Osborne offering more devolved power now Gael. So clearly a bribe a not what they want, poor, poor politics and panic stations from Westminster.
Mind you begs the question do they even want to win, certainly held them next year if they don't. The way the No campaign has been ran you'd think they wanted out.

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Post by Davie Sun 07 Sep 2014, 8:19 pm

A timely (and quite possibly gerrymandered) poll result. Perfect for the pro-union supporters. A reminder to all those people who want to stay in the union but who probably wouldn't have voted

I still feel the most likely balance is 60-40 to the no voters - but apathy from the unionists (and voting from people who really should have no right to vote) will make it closer

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Post by incontinentia Mon 08 Sep 2014, 10:29 am

Happy birthday TexasWedge Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread - Page 2 3559488474
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Post by McLaren Mon 08 Sep 2014, 12:23 pm

Davie wrote:A timely (and quite possibly gerrymandered) poll result. Perfect for the pro-union supporters. A reminder to all those people who want to stay in the union but who probably wouldn't have voted

I still feel the most likely balance is 60-40 to the no voters - but apathy from the unionists (and voting from people who really should have no right to vote) will make it closer

Who do you think has no right to vote? (This will be good)
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Post by super_realist Mon 08 Sep 2014, 12:32 pm

McLaren wrote:
Davie wrote:A timely (and quite possibly gerrymandered) poll result. Perfect for the pro-union supporters. A reminder to all those people who want to stay in the union but who probably wouldn't have voted

I still feel the most likely balance is 60-40 to the no voters - but apathy from the unionists (and voting from people who really should have no right to vote) will make it closer

Who do you think has no right to vote? (This will be good)

anyone likely to vote Yes.

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Post by Davie Mon 08 Sep 2014, 2:03 pm

McLaren wrote:

Who do you think has no right to vote? (This will be good)

16 year olds maybe?

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 08 Sep 2014, 2:54 pm

10 days and counting. God! That's a long time, especially when I was fed up on day 1 more or less. It'll either be a close 'yes' or a close 'no' I think. Either of which are long-term divisive.

One thing's for sure though, Salmond et al will carry on blaming the "Tories" (for which, read "English") for everything; something that could be especially divisive if it's a 'yes' and it turns out after all that it's not going to pan out as he so blithely claims it will, post-independence. It won't, as anyone w/o their head up their own arse could tell him. In fact, I'm certain they have told him but he just doesn't have any interest in opinions that differ from his own.
The whole thing is nonsensical, simply because Salmond et al want their political day(s) in the sun. In a way, I hope it's a 'yes' and that the whole project burns - a bit petty I know.
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Post by super_realist Mon 08 Sep 2014, 3:02 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:10 days and counting. God! That's a long time, especially when I was fed up on day 1 more or less. It'll either be a close 'yes' or a close 'no' I think. Either of which are long-term divisive.

One thing's for sure though, Salmond et al will carry on blaming the "Tories" (for which, read "English") for everything; something that could be especially divisive if it's a 'yes' and it turns out after all that it's not going to pan out as he so blithely claims it will, post-independence. It won't, as anyone w/o their head up their own arse could tell him. In fact, I'm certain they have told him but he just doesn't have any interest in opinions that differ from his own.
The whole thing is nonsensical, simply because Salmond et al want their political day(s) in the sun. In a way, I hope it's a 'yes' and that the whole project burns - a bit petty I know.

Why would Salmond let facts get in the way of his message Navy?

Some of the people I've heard on the radio eager for a Yes vote are clearly hiding behind their anti-English "anti Thatcher" bias, and are using terrible excuses for wanting independence to cover that up. It's too embarrassing to listen to and the rest of the UK must think we are knuckle dragging, incomprehensible, plastic bag carrying, gaunt expressioned looking idiots, which I suppose a great many Scots are.

Scotland, succeeding in making a crap country crapper. Well done Salmond.

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Post by McLaren Mon 08 Sep 2014, 3:10 pm

I have long held the belief that come the moment they are in the booth some of the more moronic members of our society will revert to nationalistic anti english notions and tick yes. Allowing a 2-3% swing to yes on the day for this reason seems about right. When pretending to be rational in public many yes voters pretend to be No voters, well that's my theory anyway.
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Post by super_realist Mon 08 Sep 2014, 3:14 pm

I'm not sure they pretend to be No voters, I've seen some terrible behavioural examples from Yes voters, so it's not a case of not pretending to be morons, it's confirmation some are.
It's sad that so few of them grasp the issues, much of what I hear is "It's Scotland's Oil" which is possibly the worst possible reason for voting for independence.

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Post by SmithersJones Mon 08 Sep 2014, 3:36 pm

When the oil runs out, how do you think the English referendum on taking Scotland back might go? And in the meantime, how high do you suppose income tax will have to go in the independent Scotland where business is tax free and everything's state funded?
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Post by super_realist Mon 08 Sep 2014, 3:42 pm

THe oil revenue is very little. Only 5bn last year. More was made from Whisky.
If Scotland does go independent, the oil companies will be able to dictate how much (or how little) they pay, or they'll simply go elsewhere.

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Post by gaelgowfer Mon 08 Sep 2014, 3:54 pm

Diggers wrote:Osborne offering more devolved power now Gael. So clearly a bribe a not what they want, poor, poor politics and panic stations from Westminster.
Mind you begs the question do they even want to win, certainly held them next year if they don't. The way the No campaign has been ran you'd think they wanted out.

Indeed Diggers.  Problem is, not much time to spell out exactly what's on the table.  Such arrogance from the public school brigade.  Still, I think you may well be right to question if they're really bothered about Scotland leaving the union.  Make their job a lot easier to keep power without those pesky Scottish labour MPs.

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Post by gaelgowfer Mon 08 Sep 2014, 4:00 pm

Davie wrote:A timely (and quite possibly gerrymandered) poll result. Perfect for the pro-union supporters. A reminder to all those people who want to stay in the union but who probably wouldn't have voted.

You may well be correct.  One of the weird things that happened was that the other poll, Panelbase, which is commissioned by the SNP, had the same percentage numbers but favouring a 'No' win.  Very strange.

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Post by super_realist Mon 08 Sep 2014, 4:00 pm

Can you imagine how crap a Scottish Olympic team will be?

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 08 Sep 2014, 4:03 pm

It's always been a problem for the 'no' campaign - they're trying to describe the status quo and, therefore, what would get worse if Scotland left. Easy for the SNP to say 'negative', 'bullying' etc. Salmond et al have done amazingly well at the 'jam tomorrow' style of politics without ever quite getting caught on a deal-breaking hook.

Quite impressed that the SNP have done so well w/o actually answering any of those tricky questions. Almost seems like they'll get what they want based on a policy of "Don't worry, it'll all work out fine in the end folks!". Quite impressed they've found so many that buy into that.
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Post by super_realist Mon 08 Sep 2014, 4:06 pm

Navy, you wouldn't be surprised if you knew how pathetic a lot of Scots are in their determination to disconnect from England. The amount of times you hear Thatcher mentioned is hysterical.
If they didn't eat it, you'd see the biggest chips going round on shoulders.

I've not heard great arguments from either side, but i've heard nothing but assertions from the Yes campaign, and what can be asserted without evidence, can be rejected without evidence.

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 08 Sep 2014, 4:07 pm

Someone on the BBC HYS had an interesting hypothetical point (several assumptions I grant):

SNP win the Referendum and Scotland go independent.
Scottish economy etc crashes bigtime.
SNP get thrashed in next, or following, Scottish elections and Scottish Labour get in
Scottish Labour form Scottish Government but have next to zero ideological enthusiasm for the project. Well done SNP.
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Post by gaelgowfer Mon 08 Sep 2014, 4:10 pm

Davie wrote:
McLaren wrote:

Who do you think has no right to vote? (This will be good)

16 year olds maybe?

Davie, one of the real surprises is that two separate groups of young people were asked how they would vote and overwhelmingly they said they would vote for the union.

If there has indeed been a big swing to the 'Yesses' then I think it's down to the group in between the young and old which is really surprising given the possible consequences for jobs and mortgages.

The whole situation is just surreal as I simply cannot believe so many people have changed their minds so late in the day with still no answers to fundamental questions put to Salmond.


Last edited by gaelgowfer on Mon 08 Sep 2014, 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 08 Sep 2014, 4:13 pm

super_realist wrote:Navy, you wouldn't be surprised if you knew how pathetic a lot of Scots are in their determination to disconnect from England. The amount of times you hear Thatcher mentioned is hysterical.
If they didn't eat it, you'd see the biggest chips going round on shoulders.

I've not heard great arguments from either side, but i've heard nothing but assertions from the Yes campaign, and what can be asserted without evidence, can be rejected without evidence.
The Thatcher thing is a weird one. Heard many commentators on the 'no' side (with no denials that I've heard from the 'yes' camp) that Salmond supported Thatcher in '79/'80. Aside from that, the idea that you'd vote for independence based on a "No more Tories!" single-issue ticket is puerile in the extreme. Seriously puerile. I've lost count of the times some numpty has said "I'm fed up of getting a Government I didn't vote for!" (as if that's a good reason) because, guess what?, about 60-70% of the Country in I don't know how many elections hasn't got the Government they voted for. They don't take their ball home and sulk about it though.

On the bright side, it should make footy Home Nations and rugby 6 Nations matches a whole lot more spicy. Wonder what'll happen to the British Lions? Not that there's been much requirement from Scottish players recently... Run
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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 08 Sep 2014, 4:15 pm

gaelgowfer wrote:...If there has indeed been a big swing to the 'Yesses' then I think it's down to the group in between the young and old which is really surprising given the possible consequences for jobs and mortgages...
This is about a generation of voters brought up with the myth that everything Thatcher did was pure evil. Mainly people, say, 35 and over. Probably the Lion's share of the voters too I would think.
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Post by super_realist Mon 08 Sep 2014, 4:37 pm

There's also the question that many Scottish voters "don't like being governed by public school boys" as if any party doesn't have lots of privately educated people in it, or as if being working class somehow makes you a better politician.

Just because you've haven't been up a chimney, don't know how much a loaf of bread or a pint of milk is, doesn't mean you can't be a good politician.

(I've no idea how much a loaf of bread is)

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 08 Sep 2014, 4:45 pm

super_realist wrote:There's also the question that many Scottish voters "don't like being governed by public school boys" ...
That's an interesting one isn't it? Assuming we're not talking about "Tim, nice, but dim" sorts of Public school kids, you'd have to assume they were a) bright and b) got some of the best education in the World. Why would you not want that sort of person in Government?*

* - Forget about how they got to Public school, whether Mummy and Daddy could afford the fees, whether they were simply out for themselves etc etc.
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Post by super_realist Mon 08 Sep 2014, 4:51 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:There's also the question that many Scottish voters "don't like being governed by public school boys" ...
That's an interesting one isn't it? Assuming we're not talking about "Tim, nice, but dim" sorts of Public school kids, you'd have to assume they were a) bright and b) got some of the best education in the World. Why would you not want that sort of person in Government?*

* - Forget about how they got to Public school, whether Mummy and Daddy could afford the fees, whether they were simply out for themselves etc etc.

Indeed, I've never understood why people think a roofer or toilet cleaner would be considered better at being an MP

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Post by BlueCoverman Mon 08 Sep 2014, 5:46 pm

The perfect apprenticeship I would say, given the amount of sh1t they have to clear up!

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Post by gaelgowfer Mon 08 Sep 2014, 8:39 pm

super_realist wrote:...I've not heard great arguments from either side, but i've heard nothing but assertions from the Yes campaign, and what can be asserted without evidence, can be rejected without evidence.

Totally concur with that.

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Post by raycastleunited Mon 08 Sep 2014, 9:29 pm

Pretty entertaining second half in Basle. England riding their luck big time, but also creating a few chances too.

I started watching mid way through the first half, took 25 minutes to work out that Delph was playing, just totally anonymous.

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