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PGA Tour: Justin Time for some Leadership: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 24 Sep 2014, 5:33 am

First topic message reminder :

Not much to talk about this week apart from the bleedin' obvious so let's keep it short:

1).I reckon this Ryder Cup will be won or lost by the very best of the European Team, and that means some new leadership on the course is necessary. And I'd say Justin Rose needs to be the man to step it up a notch.
There'll be loads of focus on Rory, Sergio, Poults, but Rose goes under the radar much of the time and it's time for him to take an excellent RC record and make it even better.
Or, another way of putting it, we can't have no-shows by our best:
~a la Faldo & Woosnam in 1991, or:
~Garcia, Harrington and Westwood in 2008.

2).If Europe's best don't excel, I expect it to be the Steady Eddies of the US Team to take advantage, Kuchar, Zach Johnson and Jimmy Walker especially. On the other side of their coin, Watson seems to rely over much on past partnerships of Simpson & Watson (plus their "scriptures") and Bradley and Mickelson. Don't see it happening and it looks like they'll be further weakened by Furyk having to baby-sit Patrick Reed after, anecdotedly, most of the US Team expressed a wish not to play with Top Five.

3).Europe will miss the leadership of Luke Donald, no doubt about that. Lots made of Poulter's Saturday evening brilliance in the Medinah gloaming, but US were up 10-4 before Luke and Sergio knocked off Woods & Stricker; Luke played, for me, the shot of the year (physically - a 6-iron inches from the cup after Woods had put his tee-shot within a couple of feet - and psychologically) on the 17th that day, then went out first and dusted Bubba on the Sunday, leading the charge to victory.

4).Would think that the US will rue the absence of Dufner and Dustin, and hopefully they'll be the greater loss.

5).Meanwhile, I'll echo Geoff Ogilvy's words on the Ryder Cup quoted last week by Doug Ferguson:
"As a TV spectacle, it's far better than the Super Bowl. Only one comes close - the 100 metres in the Olympics. Maybe. And it only lasts 10 seconds. Golf generally is not overly suspenseful on TV, but that is off the charts."

Certainly my favourite sports event, and I can't wait!

EUROPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 30 Sep 2014, 7:13 am

Cadillac named sponsor of the 2015 WGC-MatchPlay Championships (at San Francisco's Harding Park) under a one-year agreement.
More on that to follow, no doubt.
Come on Volvo pick it up and take it round the World . . . . .

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 30 Sep 2014, 9:44 am

pgatour.com is reporting that Donaldson and Dubuisson have accepted PGA Tour membership for 2014/2015. Don't think I've ever seen that 100% confirmed; is it correct?

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Post by Be_the_ball Tue 30 Sep 2014, 2:12 pm

Kwini, Mc, they were both great reads thanks for posting. Interesting insight into some of the players characters, and just how much thought McGinley put into it. Im still not convinced Phil was wrong though, everyone is picking up on Phils comments on the "Pod" system but for me the most important thing he said was Zinger had the team "invested" in the process. Thats the key, you could see that Bubba, Bradley and even Spieth when his match turned had no interest in being there. Last thing we want is them "invested in the process" ? Wonder what Shotrock thinks? I don't think its disrespectful to Watson in saying that, no?

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Post by pedro Tue 30 Sep 2014, 2:29 pm

In a way I hope Azinger returns. They will see him as a saviour and it could easily lead to false expectations, hoping he fixes it for them. And that's when they'll get beaten again.

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 30 Sep 2014, 2:46 pm

With just a few exceptions the US media seems to agree with Phil; not necessarily the method of his madness, but the message to the PGA.

Completely agree that some Americans switched off and that's more mutinous than what Phil had to say.

Shotrock will probably have a tough time reconciling himself to the fact that his "big Tour" got well and truly duffed up by the values of the inept European Tour. But he'll dust himself off when Woods comes back, probably making reservations at "The Woods Jupiter: Sports and Dining Club" even as I scribble.

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Post by McLaren Tue 30 Sep 2014, 2:49 pm

Be_the_ball wrote:Kwini, Mc, they were both great reads thanks for posting. Interesting insight into some of the players characters, and just how much thought McGinley put into it. Im still not convinced Phil was wrong though, everyone is picking up on Phils comments on the "Pod" system but for me the most important thing he said was Zinger had the team "invested" in the process. Thats the key, you could see that Bubba, Bradley and even Spieth when his match turned had no interest in being there. Last thing we want is them "invested in the process" ? Wonder what Shotrock thinks? I don't think its disrespectful to Watson in saying that, no?

If you want more to read on Watson and the Ryder cup then this is pretty comprehensive;

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/ryder-cup/2014/paul-mcginley-tom-watson-shane-ryan
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Post by Be_the_ball Tue 30 Sep 2014, 4:19 pm

Good read Mc, so essentially USA appointing Tom Watson, was like Liverpool appointing Kenny Dalglish. The game has just moved on.

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 30 Sep 2014, 5:17 pm

Good analogy B_t_B - and remember that it was Americans who appointed King Kenny.

I dunno, the winning captain always gets the plaudits (except perhaps for Montgomerie), but the universal sentiment of the US press seems to be that Watson deserved to lose. Re-reading a number of American Saturday and Sunday newspapers, Watson had clearly lost the media even if he hadn't lost the players - which he probably had.

Not actually sure this is all good for the Ryder Cup. Lots of soul-searching to come from the boots and suits of the PGA who devised the hare-brained Watson scheme in the first place.


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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 01 Oct 2014, 4:09 am

rotoworld.com now reporting that Donaldson, Dubuisson and Franny Molinari will all accept PGA Tour Membership for 2014/2015, Brooks Koepka too.
A bit early for Victor I would have thought, hope he's getting sound advice on scheduling.
First priority for the Europeans should be to play the CIMB and WGC-Champions events this autumn.
Brooks will get started at next week's Frys.com where he could/should(?) have won last year.

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Post by McLaren Wed 01 Oct 2014, 4:22 am

kwini

Was the reason for Dustin Johnsons absence ever confirmed?
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Post by super_realist Wed 01 Oct 2014, 4:28 am

Yeah, recreational drugs. THought that was obvious.

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Post by Bob_the_Job Wed 01 Oct 2014, 5:04 am

McLaren wrote:If you want more to read on Watson and the Ryder cup then this is pretty comprehensive;

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/ryder-cup/2014/paul-mcginley-tom-watson-shane-ryan

Nice one Mac - one of the better articles (in terms of putting it altogether and quality of the writing) I've read to date.
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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 01 Oct 2014, 5:06 am

Mac,
Re: DJ.
Only by super_ . . . . . . . . !

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Post by McLaren Wed 01 Oct 2014, 5:49 am

Super

A tweet from Stephanie Wei said she was playing a composite of the New and Jubilee courses, just wondering if this is an opportunity open to the general public or just VIP's in the run up to the Dunhill links?

I am sure the locals dot around to make up loads of combinations of TOC, new and Jubilee holes but wondered about a more official invitations to do so.
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Post by Bob_the_Job Wed 01 Oct 2014, 6:31 am

I had to Google her. I kind of wish I hadn't. Still, Steve Elkington seems to have an interesting perspective on her.
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Post by super_realist Wed 01 Oct 2014, 6:41 am

McLaren wrote:Super

A tweet from Stephanie Wei said she was playing a composite of the New and Jubilee courses, just  wondering if this is an opportunity open to the general public or just VIP's in the run up to the Dunhill links?

I am sure the locals dot around to make up loads of combinations of TOC, new and Jubilee holes but wondered about a more official invitations to do so.

Mac, played it on Saturday. Jubilee 1 and 18 are used as Driving range for Dunhill and 1/18 on New is out of commission for other corporate stuff. Anyone can play it.

So you start on 3rd on Jub, Hop over onto New for 4 holes then finish off on Jubilee.

If you could combine the best holes of Old (not that there are many) and those from the Jubilee and New, you'd actually have a top class course for a major.

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Post by Bob_the_Job Wed 01 Oct 2014, 6:48 am

What do you consider the best holes on TOC - I'm sure you've said before but I can't recall and I'm too lazy to search?
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Post by super_realist Wed 01 Oct 2014, 6:52 am

16 and 17, even they aren't great.
1 and 18 are among the worst holes in Open history.
I enjoy playing the course, it doesn't merit an Open though. If the weather is good next year someone WILL shoot a 59. It's far too easy.

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Post by Bob_the_Job Wed 01 Oct 2014, 6:56 am

I wonder what odds you'd get on a 59 - might be worth a tenner.
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Post by super_realist Wed 01 Oct 2014, 6:59 am

Guys in the clubs at St.Andrews regularly shoot 65, and even a 64 has been seen before.  Dread to think what a pro could shoot round there.
It's not a good course it its only defence is the weather.

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Post by McLaren Wed 01 Oct 2014, 7:34 am

Bob_the_Job wrote:I had to Google her.  I kind of wish I hadn't.  Still, Steve Elkington seems to have an interesting perspective on her.

I don't get that comment. What is wrong with her?
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Post by Bob_the_Job Wed 01 Oct 2014, 9:54 am

McLaren wrote:
Bob_the_Job wrote:I had to Google her.  I kind of wish I hadn't.  Still, Steve Elkington seems to have an interesting perspective on her.

I don't get that comment.  What is wrong with her?

So many images. My PA saw my screen and gave me a look that said "I didn't take you for a guy that was into small Asian women who look 14. Please don't be the guy" Doh

I muttered about golf journalist but she didn't look convinced.

More to the point, Steve Elkington appears to have turned off the Safe Settings on his brain.
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Post by McLaren Wed 01 Oct 2014, 10:01 am

I see, that is a bit unfortunate. I like her coverage on twitter and often read her blog.
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Post by robopz Wed 01 Oct 2014, 1:54 pm

McLaren wrote:
Bob_the_Job wrote:I had to Google her.  I kind of wish I hadn't.  Still, Steve Elkington seems to have an interesting perspective on her.

I don't get that comment.  What is wrong with her?
see: http://deadspin.com/steve-elkington-tells-stephanie-wei-shes-short-and-has-1523742276

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Post by McLaren Wed 01 Oct 2014, 2:38 pm

Robo

I was aware of the sexist comments from Elkington, I just took bob to be saying there was a reason to dislike Wei. Turns out I misunderstood bob's comment. Thanks for the link anyway.
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Post by pedro Wed 01 Oct 2014, 3:04 pm

Do you think Tigers new restaurant serves fried chicken? Run

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 02 Oct 2014, 5:30 am

McLaren wrote:
Be_the_ball wrote:Kwini, Mc, they were both great reads thanks for posting. Interesting insight into some of the players characters, and just how much thought McGinley put into it. Im still not convinced Phil was wrong though, everyone is picking up on Phils comments on the "Pod" system but for me the most important thing he said was Zinger had the team "invested" in the process. Thats the key, you could see that Bubba, Bradley and even Spieth when his match turned had no interest in being there. Last thing we want is them "invested in the process" ? Wonder what Shotrock thinks? I don't think its disrespectful to Watson in saying that, no?

If you want more to read on Watson and the Ryder cup then this is pretty comprehensive;

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/ryder-cup/2014/paul-mcginley-tom-watson-shane-ryan
Interesting read Mac. Thanks. However, I think the retrospective 20:20 hindsight is all a bit pathetic and, sadly, typical from people who've been repeatedly handed their own arses in a big competition. The haste to crucify Watson is pathetic.
Walker hit a tired shot? Diddums. Garcia hit one of the worst drives I've ever seen by a top pro - no-one mentions tiredness in association with that. Some of them had played (shock! horror!) four whole rounds in two days! Without carrying their bags! Ohhh....the horror!!!! Mahan had an utter brain fart on 18? Oh, that'll be Watson's fault then. Etc, etc, etc.
Pmrick was utterly out of order with what he did. OK, so Watson AND HIS TEAM may not have been the most inclusive. Was that what was wrong with Pavin, Sutton, etc etc etc?? The U.S. may have a general issue with what they're doing (they could at least try some sort of Captaincy succession planning maybe?) but to take it all out on Watson the way its been done is pathetic. Truly pathetic.
Some of these players had months, if not 2 years, to address what might have been going on. Where were they at Gleneagles after the Scottish Open? Pmrick swans in and out on his own, in his own jet? Way to go with setting an example Pmrick. Great team ethic.
Also, where are the A-holes who appointed Watson? They surely knew what they were getting? Assuming they did, they're hanging him out to dry like this? Cowards to a man.
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Post by super_realist Thu 02 Oct 2014, 5:38 am

Well said Navy.

How many of the Americans ever came across to play in the Johnnie Walker for the past few years?

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Post by pedro Thu 02 Oct 2014, 5:48 am

Navy, that’s many excellent points!

Kudos for Phil for speaking out what everybody was thinking, although also I can’t understand why nobody said anything for 2 years. But also shame on him for private jetting in and out. Didn’t exactly help boost team spirit.

It seemed everybody thought Watson would come back and save the US team because he had past success. Ironically now it seems everybody think Azinger will be the one to come back and save the team because he had past success.

In fact it seems Americans generally have too much faith (or blame) in their “leaders” and forget to look at themselves or at the big picture. No Captain Fantastic will save anybody or fix anything singlehandedly. However, I’m quite sure a captain can contribute to ruining a team, for instance by p!55ing off the players – Watson probably did that, so did Faldo.

It will be very dangerous for the US team if fans, media and players alike to think that some Messiah will descent and do his magic. Nor do I think there is a “magic formula” like the pod-system. (P.S.: If that had been applied by Watson, pairings like Fowler/Walker and Spieth/Reed would never have happened.)

But as an European I actually think it would be great if the Americans think Azinger + a magic formula can fix it for them and then just sit back and wait. Because then I’m quite sure we’ll win again - although it’ll probably be closer than this time. And remember: next time we won’t have Faldo!

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 02 Oct 2014, 6:00 am

pedro wrote:Navy, that’s many excellent points!

Kudos for Phil for speaking out what everybody was thinking, although also I can’t understand why nobody said anything for 2 years. But also shame on him for private jetting in and out. Didn’t exactly help boost team spirit.

It seemed everybody thought Watson would come back and save the US team because he had past success. Ironically now it seems everybody think Azinger will be the one to come back and save the team because he had past success.

In fact it seems Americans generally have too much faith (or blame) in their “leaders” and forget to look at themselves or at the big picture. No Captain Fantastic will save anybody or fix anything singlehandedly. However, I’m quite sure a captain can contribute to ruining a team, for instance by p!55ing off the players – Watson probably did that, so did Faldo.

It will be very dangerous for the US team if fans, media and players alike to think that some Messiah will descent and do his magic. Nor do I think there is a “magic formula” like the pod-system. (P.S.: If that had been applied by Watson, pairings like Fowler/Walker and Spieth/Reed would never have happened.)

But as an European I actually think it would be great if the Americans think Azinger + a magic formula can fix it for them and then just sit back and wait. Because then I’m quite sure we’ll win again - although it’ll probably be closer than this time. And remember: next time we won’t have Faldo!
Nope. No kudos from me for Mickleson unless he's thinking that he'll be happy to take the potential hit that he'll never be a part of it again in order to make a long-term change for the better? Personally, I think that sort of altruism is as far from Mickleson's DNA as it's possible to be. Mickleson's RC record isn't all that so I'd find it quite hilarious, if future Captains decide that they don't want him as part of the setup, even if he would qualify automatically. The sad thing is, he'll probably be a future Captain which'll be a shame.
It's really ironic, as you point out, that the Reed/Spieth and Fowler/Walker partnerships wouldn't have come about via Mickleson's dream-boat 'pod' system.
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Post by McLaren Thu 02 Oct 2014, 6:15 am

Navy

I broadly agree with your general thoughts and especially so when you question golfers being tired (either mentally or physically, FFS some people function as single parents working night shifts in very demanding jobs and the like. I will never believe a pro golfer suffers true tiredness no matter how often kwini and other writers tell us they do).

In the past I have said a captain can make little or no difference and I still sort of think that as long as the captain does not actively harm the team. I don't think it is just hindsight that tells us Watson rubbed his players up the wrong way, if we had really been paying attention the clues seem to have been there for some time.
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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 02 Oct 2014, 6:25 am

Maybe Mac, but then I look at, say, the 2007 England rugby team who, it's rumoured, completely fell out with the management and coaches leading up to and during that year's World Cup. The players basically said, so it goes, "Sod you lot. We'll do it ourselves". They got to the final and were only narrowly beaten by SA.
If Mickleson was any sort of leader, he could have got some of the other seniors on board, organised their own bonding sessions etc and simply said "We do it for each other and the U.S.A. The management and coaches can go swivel.".
Instead, what he does is publicly spit the dummy out and take his ball back home. Way to go!
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Post by Bob_the_Job Thu 02 Oct 2014, 6:37 am

McLaren wrote:Navy

I broadly agree with your general thoughts and especially so when you question golfers being tired (either mentally or physically, FFS some people function as single parents working night shifts in very demanding jobs and the like.  I will never believe a pro golfer suffers true tiredness no matter how often kwini and other writers tell us they do).

There is functioning and then there is being at the top of your game.  I wonder why HGV drivers, surgeons, doctors, airline pilots etc. etc. are limited in the number of hours they can work?  They're not even walking or swinging a club.  It's almost as if evidence and medical science have combined to prove that performance does tail off with "tiredness" and that the causes of "tiredness" are not limited to physical labour.
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Post by super_realist Thu 02 Oct 2014, 6:40 am

I see what your'e getting at, but there is no way you can compare a golfer playing half a dozen rounds a week with a Junior Doctor doing 80 hours a week.

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Post by pedro Thu 02 Oct 2014, 6:41 am

You have to think that Phil was frustrated after being man-handled by the Europeans for so many years and that most on the team were frustrated as well. I also think he felt he had to stand up for his team mates. Too many small things that had build up over the years and during the week.

And fact is, that although Watson may be seen as a scape goat, something better may come out of this. Had Phil waited to out himself a few weeks or months, nothing would have changed.

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Post by super_realist Thu 02 Oct 2014, 6:43 am

I'm surprised that after about their 5th or 6th regular arsehanding that America might look at themselves a bit closer and never thought. "WHy do we always get beaten"?

Only got themselves to blame.

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 02 Oct 2014, 6:56 am

First real "arsehanding" since 2006 though.
I think they DID look "at themselves a bit closer" and thought Watson was the answer - but that was their BIG mistake!
Not for nothing is the PGA chief called Bishop - probably thought a right-winger and a few scripturites would do the trick.
Not this time.

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Post by pedro Thu 02 Oct 2014, 7:02 am

kwinigolfer wrote:First real "arsehanding" since 2006 though.
I think they DID look "at themselves a bit closer" and thought Watson was the answer - but that was their BIG mistake!
Not for nothing is the PGA chief called Bishop - probably thought a right-winger and a few scripturites would do the trick.
Not this time.
Watson behaved like a Pope though.

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 02 Oct 2014, 7:14 am

thumbsup
Ah, That's it!
The nickname of Stanford University which Pope Watson attended is the "Cardinal"!
Hadn't fully appreciated how influential that would become . . . . . .

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Post by pedro Thu 02 Oct 2014, 7:26 am

Speaking of which. Is this from the US team presser? They DO seem to be divided into pods?
PGA Tour: Justin Time for some Leadership: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 %C3%9Altima_Cena_-_Da_Vinci_5

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