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Apparently, England's Other League Convert - Ben Te'o

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Post by Rugby Fan Tue 07 Oct 2014, 2:06 am

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/10588038/Rabbitoh-Ben-Te-o-eyed-up-by-English-rugby

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/nrl/ben-teo-could-be-a-shock-starter-for-england-at-the-2015-rugby-world-cup-team/story-fnp0lyn6-1227081587571

He's a team mate of Sam Burgess and has agreed a move to Leinster. He qualifies for both New Zealand and Australia but his mum was born and raised in England so he is also available to Lancaster. However, all three teams have a policy of not selecting players who play overseas, so Leinster is entirely the wrong team for him to be at if he wants to be considered for the World Cup.

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Post by HammerofThunor Tue 07 Oct 2014, 2:49 am

It seems like his qualification for Australia is for residency so he'll lose that when he moves. It also reads like a journalist asked him specifically about playing for England and he didn't rule it out. So largely a non-story at the moment.

He also played one game for Samoa, so unless the qualification criteria is different in league, then he could also play for them, and would be the most likely.

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Post by maestegmafia Tue 07 Oct 2014, 9:31 am

HammerofThunor wrote:It seems like his qualification for Australia is for residency so he'll lose that when he moves. It also reads like a journalist asked him specifically about playing for England and he didn't rule it out. So largely a non-story at the moment.

He also played one game for Samoa, so unless the qualification criteria is different in league, then he could also play for them, and would be the most likely.

Lesley Vanikola, Henry Paul and Shontayne Hape all played league for the nations they were born in but played eligibility rule rugby union for England in the not so distant past...

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Post by Rugby Fan Tue 07 Oct 2014, 11:12 am

maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:It seems like his qualification for Australia is for residency so he'll lose that when he moves. It also reads like a journalist asked him specifically about playing for England and he didn't rule it out. So largely a non-story at the moment.

He also played one game for Samoa, so unless the qualification criteria is different in league, then he could also play for them, and would be the most likely.

Lesley Vanikola, Henry Paul and Shontayne Hape all played league for the nations they were born in but played eligibility rule rugby union for England in the not so distant past...

Hammer isn't saying he couldn't switch to England, New Zealand or Australia for union; he's wondering whether Te'o also would qualify for Samoa because he was able to play League for them.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Tue 07 Oct 2014, 11:14 am

Sounds like the classic situation of a journo writing up an inflammatory article then teasing a generic response from a banal question in order to justify filing it with his (or her) editor.

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 07 Oct 2014, 11:28 am

Nah - just shows the sad lack of geographical knowledge.

"Oh he will be playing in Dublin, that is in England yeah?"

Kind of like the yanks who believe Scotland and Wales are in England.

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Post by Richard Tue 07 Oct 2014, 1:09 pm

How many states can you point to on a map?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 07 Oct 2014, 2:17 pm

You think states are the same as countries Dick?

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Post by Notch Tue 07 Oct 2014, 3:21 pm

You couldn't very well justify playing this guy and not Steffon Armitage. Who knows how he'll do?

Karmichael Hunt came with an even bigger reputation and sank like a stone.
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Post by doctor_grey Tue 07 Oct 2014, 4:54 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Nah - just shows the sad lack of geographical knowledge.

"Oh he will be playing in Dublin, that is in England yeah?"

Kind of like the yanks who believe Scotland and Wales are in England.
They're not? When did that happen?

You thinking this guy got confused between Leinster and Leicester?

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 07 Oct 2014, 4:58 pm

Richard wrote:How many states can you point to on a map?

40/50 on this quiz - so not great. Ran out of time and i struggle a little with the southern states

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Post by HammerofThunor Tue 07 Oct 2014, 6:05 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:It seems like his qualification for Australia is for residency so he'll lose that when he moves. It also reads like a journalist asked him specifically about playing for England and he didn't rule it out. So largely a non-story at the moment.

He also played one game for Samoa, so unless the qualification criteria is different in league, then he could also play for them, and would be the most likely.

Lesley Vanikola, Henry Paul and Shontayne Hape all played league for the nations they were born in but played eligibility rule rugby union for England in the not so distant past...

Hammer isn't saying he couldn't switch to England, New Zealand or Australia for union; he's wondering whether Te'o also would qualify for Samoa because he was able to play League for them.

Well I'm questioning his Australian qualification now he's moving away but other than that, yep, that's what I meant. But I would have no problem with him playing for England if he was playing IN England (ideally after around 3 years, even though he doesn't technically need it).

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Post by Cyril Tue 07 Oct 2014, 6:09 pm

"eyed up by English rugby"

Other than the fact that he's playing rugby close to England and has English heritage there's no evidence produced by the article that he's on the England radar.

Mind you, this is a stuff.co.nz article so you might as well ask the cat.

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Post by Richard Wed 08 Oct 2014, 2:40 am

You think Mike Catt might be working for the rfu in foreign recruitment and have a clearer picture on the situation? I think he'd be unlikely to share any information on such a deal at this stage.

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Post by Cumbrian Wed 08 Oct 2014, 2:46 am

Seems a complete non-story to me. Look at all of the debate that has gone on about Steffon Armitage, a guy many consider to be our most naturally talented open-side. If they won't bend the rules for him, this other fella has no chance.
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Post by LondonTiger Wed 08 Oct 2014, 4:30 am

Richard wrote:You think Mike Catt might be working for the rfu in foreign recruitment and have a clearer picture on the situation? I think he'd be unlikely to share any information on such a deal at this stage.

Stir and fabricate as much as you like, a complete non-story.


PS are you related to Buffy, Little Britain and Gold Blend ads actor Anthony Head?



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Post by BamBam Wed 08 Oct 2014, 5:23 am

Laugh

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Post by Rugby Fan Wed 08 Oct 2014, 6:10 am

Most League journalists down under still seem to be under the impression that the RFU convinced Sam Burgess to switch codes. This despite the fact they declined to contribute to his move.

As far as League wingers are concerned, if the RFU really had any serious ambitions to get one of the best in the world, then they would have pursued Ryan Hall.

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Post by SecretFly Wed 08 Oct 2014, 7:00 am

Oh I do love these Bassett's Allsorts players. The ones with the pink stuff around their liquorice centres are my favourites.

I'm qualified to play for the world, mate! - on me father's uncle's cousin's sister's mother's side!

Those Hillbilly's in the Appalacian mountyains don't know how much money they could be earning if'n they only declared

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Post by fa0019 Wed 08 Oct 2014, 8:38 am

Fly

to be fair its not a grandparent or residency. Its his mum who was born and raised in the England. This isn't quite the same as Thomas Waldrom finding out a grandfather of his whom he never met was born in England 2 weeks before they set sale for NZ.

Without knowing him at all I'd be willing to bet that means he's probably had quite a bit of English culture etc instilled in him. They don't call it your mother tongue for nothing... mothers are often (not always) your primary carer/parent/guardian etc.

This doesn't mean he's English and I'm sure he wouldn't even claim to be so. Its similar to Gareth Anscombe although I'm not sure she was raised in Wales (I know she was born there... but all the reports only ever say born there... which perhaps naively brings the assumption that she was raised elsewhere i.e. NZ).

I'm sure there are people in the world who have an English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish grandparent, feels british and had strong relationship with all of them. That person must exist.

In the end you can't choose who your parents are, who your grandparents are, where you are born or where you were raised. The guy can't represent NZ because he doesn't play rugby in NZ, wouldn't qualify for AUS, not sure about Samoa but he would qualify for England in any era. Attachment to a nation is all about personal feelings, maybe he has strong feelings for mother England, maybe he's looking at the dollar signs in front of him. its difficult to tell.

Your birthplace has nothing to do with your national identity. Take Tom Heathcote and Jim Hamilton for instance. Both had parents in the forces. Tom was born in Scotland to English parents, Jim was born in England to Scottish parents. Both play for Scotland. I would say its a brave man to say Jim Hamilton isn't Scottish but I'm sure Tom Heathcote would be openly happy to say he's English.

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Post by SecretFly Wed 08 Oct 2014, 8:46 am

fa0019 wrote:
I'm sure there are people in the world who have an English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish grandparent, feels british and had strong relationship with all of them. That person must exist.


I'm only interested in the ones who feel the Irish bit Wink Or do they have to negotiate with themselves about whether their Irishness bit makes them feel British or Irish? It gets even more complicated.

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Post by SecretFly Wed 08 Oct 2014, 8:51 am

Just a funny thing on this topic (but not linked to rugby) happened the other day when three scientists were awarded the Medical Nobel prize.

I happened to catch the story on three news platforms.  I think there was a husband and wife Norwegian twosome and the third guy.

Well, the BBC said he was 'British' (works there).  CNN said he was 'American' (born there).  And the Irish Independent (newspaper) said he was 'Irish American' (mother Irish).

I laughed.  That's actually three scientists and four nations that got the Nobel Prize!  Nice work on inclusivity.

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Post by Rugby Fan Wed 08 Oct 2014, 9:25 am

SecretFly wrote:Just a funny thing on this topic (but not linked to rugby) happened the other day when three scientists were awarded the Medical Nobel prize.
Two Japanese have won the Nobel Prize for Physics. Nambu on 2008 and Nakamura this year. Except neither are Japanese. Separately, both men moved to the US well into their research careers and ended up naturalizing. Japanese law does not recognize dual nationality so, officially, both are now Americans and the Nobel committee identifies them as such.

No-one would think either man ever suddenly stopped being Japanese - there's even a chance that they retained their Japanese passports. However, the Japanese Education Ministry, which lists Japan's Nobel prize winners, can't officially recognize them as such.

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Post by HammerofThunor Wed 08 Oct 2014, 9:44 am

fa0019 wrote:Fly

to be fair its not a grandparent or residency. Its his mum who was born and raised in the England. This isn't quite the same as Thomas Waldrom finding out a grandfather of his whom he never met was born in England 2 weeks before they set sale for NZ.

Without knowing him at all I'd be willing to bet that means he's probably had quite a bit of English culture etc instilled in him. They don't call it your mother tongue for nothing... mothers are often (not always) your primary carer/parent/guardian etc.

Not really sure what 'English culture' is (on the mother tongue thing, we were looking about the census records for the 1800s on my wife's side and most of the fathers spoke Welsh but the children only spoke Welsh if the mother did).

Personally I'm much more interested in players coming through the English system rather than people with English 'blood'. I expect every single player representing England to have played rugby in England.

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Post by fa0019 Wed 08 Oct 2014, 10:39 am

SecretFly wrote:Just a funny thing on this topic (but not linked to rugby) happened the other day when three scientists were awarded the Medical Nobel prize.

I happened to catch the story on three news platforms.  I think there was a husband and wife Norwegian twosome and the third guy.

Well, the BBC said he was 'British' (works there).  CNN said he was 'American' (born there).  And the Irish Independent (newspaper) said he was 'Irish American' (mother Irish).

I laughed.  That's actually three scientists and four nations that got the Nobel Prize!  Nice work on inclusivity.

I read that too, rather hilarious but there is a lot of national pride in Nobel prizes. If you look at lists of prize winners by nationality you often see guys listed in a number of columns as place of work/place of birth/ancestry are often different in the scientific community.

I didn't read him being British though... American born and raised but he has British citizenship and has lived in the UK since the 60s. Man of the world really.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 08 Oct 2014, 10:59 am

fa0019 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Just a funny thing on this topic (but not linked to rugby) happened the other day when three scientists were awarded the Medical Nobel prize.

I happened to catch the story on three news platforms.  I think there was a husband and wife Norwegian twosome and the third guy.

Well, the BBC said he was 'British' (works there).  CNN said he was 'American' (born there).  And the Irish Independent (newspaper) said he was 'Irish American' (mother Irish).

I laughed.  That's actually three scientists and four nations that got the Nobel Prize!  Nice work on inclusivity.

I read that too, rather hilarious but there is a lot of national pride in Nobel prizes. If you look at lists of prize winners by nationality you often see guys listed in a number of columns as place of work/place of birth/ancestry are often different in the scientific community.

I didn't read him being British though... American born and raised but he has British citizenship and has lived in the UK since the 60s. Man of the world really.

Hey that's me then, can I have a Nobel prize ? I could have one for my insightful input into this forum alone. Yahoo

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Post by fa0019 Wed 08 Oct 2014, 11:02 am

LordDowlais wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Just a funny thing on this topic (but not linked to rugby) happened the other day when three scientists were awarded the Medical Nobel prize.

I happened to catch the story on three news platforms.  I think there was a husband and wife Norwegian twosome and the third guy.

Well, the BBC said he was 'British' (works there).  CNN said he was 'American' (born there).  And the Irish Independent (newspaper) said he was 'Irish American' (mother Irish).

I laughed.  That's actually three scientists and four nations that got the Nobel Prize!  Nice work on inclusivity.

I read that too, rather hilarious but there is a lot of national pride in Nobel prizes. If you look at lists of prize winners by nationality you often see guys listed in a number of columns as place of work/place of birth/ancestry are often different in the scientific community.

I didn't read him being British though... American born and raised but he has British citizenship and has lived in the UK since the 60s. Man of the world really.

Hey that's me then, can I have a Nobel prize ? I could have one for my insightful input into this forum alone. Yahoo

To be honest LD you could have got nominated for a peace prize due to your sterling defence of the union over September!!! Smile

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 08 Oct 2014, 11:04 am

fa0019 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Just a funny thing on this topic (but not linked to rugby) happened the other day when three scientists were awarded the Medical Nobel prize.

I happened to catch the story on three news platforms.  I think there was a husband and wife Norwegian twosome and the third guy.

Well, the BBC said he was 'British' (works there).  CNN said he was 'American' (born there).  And the Irish Independent (newspaper) said he was 'Irish American' (mother Irish).

I laughed.  That's actually three scientists and four nations that got the Nobel Prize!  Nice work on inclusivity.

I read that too, rather hilarious but there is a lot of national pride in Nobel prizes. If you look at lists of prize winners by nationality you often see guys listed in a number of columns as place of work/place of birth/ancestry are often different in the scientific community.

I didn't read him being British though... American born and raised but he has British citizenship and has lived in the UK since the 60s. Man of the world really.

Hey that's me then, can I have a Nobel prize ? I could have one for my insightful input into this forum alone. Yahoo

To be honest LD you could have got nominated for a peace prize due to your sterling defence of the union over September!!! Smile

Well It's about bloody time. Also, thanks for the recognition. Whistle

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Post by fa0019 Wed 08 Oct 2014, 11:08 am

LordDowlais wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Just a funny thing on this topic (but not linked to rugby) happened the other day when three scientists were awarded the Medical Nobel prize.

I happened to catch the story on three news platforms.  I think there was a husband and wife Norwegian twosome and the third guy.

Well, the BBC said he was 'British' (works there).  CNN said he was 'American' (born there).  And the Irish Independent (newspaper) said he was 'Irish American' (mother Irish).

I laughed.  That's actually three scientists and four nations that got the Nobel Prize!  Nice work on inclusivity.

I read that too, rather hilarious but there is a lot of national pride in Nobel prizes. If you look at lists of prize winners by nationality you often see guys listed in a number of columns as place of work/place of birth/ancestry are often different in the scientific community.

I didn't read him being British though... American born and raised but he has British citizenship and has lived in the UK since the 60s. Man of the world really.

Hey that's me then, can I have a Nobel prize ? I could have one for my insightful input into this forum alone. Yahoo

To be honest LD you could have got nominated for a peace prize due to your sterling defence of the union over September!!! Smile

Well It's about bloody time. Also, thanks for the recognition. Whistle

More deserving than Barack anyhow... that was the minute I finally gave up on giving the prize any kudos. I.e. its all political, hardly ever about achievement (the peace prize that is).

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 08 Oct 2014, 11:10 am

fa0019 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Just a funny thing on this topic (but not linked to rugby) happened the other day when three scientists were awarded the Medical Nobel prize.

I happened to catch the story on three news platforms.  I think there was a husband and wife Norwegian twosome and the third guy.

Well, the BBC said he was 'British' (works there).  CNN said he was 'American' (born there).  And the Irish Independent (newspaper) said he was 'Irish American' (mother Irish).

I laughed.  That's actually three scientists and four nations that got the Nobel Prize!  Nice work on inclusivity.

I read that too, rather hilarious but there is a lot of national pride in Nobel prizes. If you look at lists of prize winners by nationality you often see guys listed in a number of columns as place of work/place of birth/ancestry are often different in the scientific community.

I didn't read him being British though... American born and raised but he has British citizenship and has lived in the UK since the 60s. Man of the world really.

Hey that's me then, can I have a Nobel prize ? I could have one for my insightful input into this forum alone. Yahoo

To be honest LD you could have got nominated for a peace prize due to your sterling defence of the union over September!!! Smile

Well It's about bloody time. Also, thanks for the recognition. Whistle

More deserving than Barack anyhow... that was the minute I finally gave up on giving the prize any kudos. I.e. its all political, hardly ever about achievement (the peace prize that is).

Yeah, well, I do love my country, and I am proud to be part of the UK. king

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Post by Bathman_in_London Wed 08 Oct 2014, 11:41 am

fa0019 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Just a funny thing on this topic (but not linked to rugby) happened the other day when three scientists were awarded the Medical Nobel prize.

I happened to catch the story on three news platforms.  I think there was a husband and wife Norwegian twosome and the third guy.

Well, the BBC said he was 'British' (works there).  CNN said he was 'American' (born there).  And the Irish Independent (newspaper) said he was 'Irish American' (mother Irish).

I laughed.  That's actually three scientists and four nations that got the Nobel Prize!  Nice work on inclusivity.

I read that too, rather hilarious but there is a lot of national pride in Nobel prizes. If you look at lists of prize winners by nationality you often see guys listed in a number of columns as place of work/place of birth/ancestry are often different in the scientific community.

I didn't read him being British though... American born and raised but he has British citizenship and has lived in the UK since the 60s. Man of the world really.

Hey that's me then, can I have a Nobel prize ? I could have one for my insightful input into this forum alone. Yahoo

To be honest LD you could have got nominated for a peace prize due to your sterling defence of the union over September!!! Smile

Well It's about bloody time. Also, thanks for the recognition. Whistle

More deserving than Barack anyhow... that was the minute I finally gave up on giving the prize any kudos. I.e. its all political, hardly ever about achievement (the peace prize that is).

Indeed, if winning an election when your opponent is pretty much unelectable deserves a prize, goodness knows what else does!

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Post by fa0019 Wed 08 Oct 2014, 11:49 am

Bathman_in_London wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Just a funny thing on this topic (but not linked to rugby) happened the other day when three scientists were awarded the Medical Nobel prize.

I happened to catch the story on three news platforms.  I think there was a husband and wife Norwegian twosome and the third guy.

Well, the BBC said he was 'British' (works there).  CNN said he was 'American' (born there).  And the Irish Independent (newspaper) said he was 'Irish American' (mother Irish).

I laughed.  That's actually three scientists and four nations that got the Nobel Prize!  Nice work on inclusivity.

I read that too, rather hilarious but there is a lot of national pride in Nobel prizes. If you look at lists of prize winners by nationality you often see guys listed in a number of columns as place of work/place of birth/ancestry are often different in the scientific community.

I didn't read him being British though... American born and raised but he has British citizenship and has lived in the UK since the 60s. Man of the world really.

Hey that's me then, can I have a Nobel prize ? I could have one for my insightful input into this forum alone. Yahoo

To be honest LD you could have got nominated for a peace prize due to your sterling defence of the union over September!!! Smile

Well It's about bloody time. Also, thanks for the recognition. Whistle

More deserving than Barack anyhow... that was the minute I finally gave up on giving the prize any kudos. I.e. its all political, hardly ever about achievement (the peace prize that is).

Indeed, if winning an election when your opponent is pretty much unelectable deserves a prize, goodness knows what else does!

He got it because the Nobel committee wanted to put two fingers to Bush two weeks after he was first sworn in... apparently for a) working with Russia and b) the middle east. I bet they are scarlet faced over that decision now.

They also gave it to Jimmy Carter (another democrat) in 2002 soon after the USA publically decided to "liberate" Iraq and even then the committee quoted  "With the position Carter has taken on this, it can and must also be seen as criticism of the line the current US administration has taken on Iraq." . So simply for being outspoken on his policy he got an award.

I'm not sure I could accept such an award under such conditions, undermines the very recipients .... he seemed a little uneasy with the award which makes me think he received no prior warning. Surely you should have a right to refuse before being awarded it.

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