PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).Chapter 3 of the 2014/2015 season sees the Tour head to Georgia's Golden Isles, and the lovely Seaside Course on Sea Island, for "The McGladrey Classic". Originally a 1920's Colt/Allison collaboration, the course was redone by Tom Fazio and looks as aesthetically gorgeous as all but one or two on Tour. The Tour has hit the jackpot with its weather for the early season trips to Silverado and Las Vegas, and four days of promised sunshine should only enhance the Seaside Course as we enjoy the action from our armchairs.

2).Several of the PGA Tour's frat boys live in this most attractive area, Love, Kuchar, ZJohnson, English and a bunch of lesser lights, and others have instructors based locally.
Almost twenty of the field went to university in Georgia, including Chris Kirk who won here last year, and several others are from the nearby Carolinas, including Bill Haas and Webb Simpson who are paired together this week - in a rare flash of wry humour from the PGA Tour.

3).Speaking of which, the Ryder Cup just won't go away, what with Poulter's riposte to Faldo's snipe at Garcia, and His Highness Jack Nicklaus coming out in Tom Watson's corner as the Gleneagles post-mortems continue.

'Course, Saint Jack has also come out in support of a talented young College Quarterback who, in any other society would probably be serving time right now. Think Balotelli's stupidity and throw in shoplifting and several allegations about sexual assault, mixed in with police neglect (possible corruption?) and you'll get the picture.
Not sure Captain Tom would like to be bracketed with this particular thug, but that's the way St.Jack moves these days.

4).Russell Knox and Martin Laird will be in the field for the third straight week and they've hit the ground running this month. Knox steadied his ship to finish third in Las Vegas, but he needs to straighten his back and lift his head up if he's to be taken seriously as a tournament contender. His body language after his first nine holes last Sunday was terrible, shoulders slumped and head shaking. Not good enough.

5).No surprise to see Ben Martin win on Tour; I mentioned him seven months ago that he "looked as if he may have the 'right stuff'" to win soon - I just didn't expect it to be the week after he dragged his sorry arse in second-to-last place at Silverado with rounds of 78 & 79.

6).Some of the Tour's leading lights are starting to return to action with a slimline (relatively speaking) Jason Dufner teeing it up in Perth. He looks as if he's lost a stone or two, and that's just from around his neck.
Duf doesn't give the gallery much love on the golf course but I love watching his swing routine, plenty of waggles and such a smooth swing. Plus no-one is more adept at slipping golfballs to unwitting children in the crowd.

7).The World Golf Hall of Fame made a couple of good choices in their "Class of 2015" by electing Laura Davies and AW Tillinghast (designer of Bethpage Black, Winged Foot, Ridgewood, Quaker Ridge, Baltusrol, etc etc - and Philadelphia Cricket Club, 22 yards of pitch and a pleasant ring of willows around the boundary edge?). What kept them out all these years?

8).But the choices of David Graham and Mark O'Meara to be "enshrined" with them seem a little more marginal.
1979 US Amateur Champ O'Meara was a top-level, never great, PGA Tour Pro, who won two Majors out of the blue in 1998, then spent the rest of his Tour career as mentor to Tiger.
King of the Pebble Beach Pro-Am (won 5 of 'em) and owner of an atrocious Ryder Cup record, he was also Tiger's spokesman in the pay-for-play row that marred the run-up to the 1999 action in Boston and thereafter terminally indignant as to whether that marred his chances of:
Ryder Cup Captaincy: "To be honest, I was a little disappointed I didn't even get considered."
Hall of Fame Election: Perhaps I'll get in: "When I stop playing? When I'm six feet under? When there's no-one left to put in?"
Get over it Mark, looks like Tiger put in a good word for you.

9).Talking of good words, what about David Graham, similarly a two-time Major Champion?
Seems like golfing mates and Preston Trail buddies Trevino and (possibly?) G.W.Bush put in a good word for him.
Graham went one further than Tom Watson when Presidents Cup Captain in that the insurrection against him occurred BEFORE the event! So much so that Peter Thomson had to be brought in to deputise!!
But if the WGHOF has been renamed the Hall of the Very Good with Couples and Montgomerie, Graham and O'Meara, it doesn't diminish the quality of Graham's signature (US Open) win at Merion, described by Hogan as the "greatest round of golf I've ever witnessed".

10).Back to The McGladrey then.
European presence is confined to the usuals, but given the number of Europeans living so close to Sea Island it's a shame that guys like Donald and McDowell (both with good records up the coast at Hilton Head) don't show up to kick-start their season in advance of HSBC Champions play.
The star of the TV broadcasts will undoubtedly be the Seaside course, and I'm expecting a relatively local lad to win the trophy, perhaps another first-time winner. Hudson Swafford maybe, recently a Top 25 machine, while my shilling each-way will be on Scott Brown, but the course should suit Knox, not to mention Bill Haas and Kirk; and Webb Simpson who fumbled his way to a play-off loss to Ben Crane a few years ago and has a great record here.
But I'd love to be a fly on the golf-bag of Haas or Simpson when they discuss Captain Watson and Text-gate.

super_realist wrote:The thing that is most stupid about this is not the alleged sexism (call me old fashioned, but not much offends me), but Bishop's double standards.
If he's publicly going to have a go at Poulter for simply defending the team in light of crass and idiotic Faldo's remarks then Bishop should also have been castigating Mickelson for his open and unprofessional criticism of Watson.

Did he? No. Seems what he might have been doing was trying to deflect the attention from his bakers dozen of deadbeat losers.

I'd bet if the "actors" in the situation were Tom Watson and Phil Mickelson instead of Faldo/Poulter... the response would have been the same.

robopz wrote:

McLaren wrote:Robo

You ask who knew the phrase bishop used was sexist, the answer is quite a lot of people, but don't worry if you were unaware of its sexist meaning.  You now know that it is sexist and should not feel any shame in having not known that, as long as you now accept the term as sexist and cease using it. We should be more willing to drop the use of phrases or behaviors once we find out they are inappropriate.

(and bishop continued to defend his use of the term even after its sexist meaning was pointed out)

Thank you for your comments... but next time somebody in my foursome leaves a 20 foot putt five feet short... I'm still gonna ask him "Does your husband play too?" or I'm gonna say "Nice putt Alice" or I'm gonna say, "Did your putter get hung up in your skirt?".  And by the way, that doesn't matter if that "somebody" in my foursome is male or female.  It hasn't stopped me before.. and it's not gonna stop me now.  

Oh!...  and by the way... I'd bet dollars to donuts.. it won't stop YOU either, now will it?

Mac doesn't have any mates to say that sort of thing to Robo. He's got his poster of 9C on the ceiling above his bed for company and that's it.

robopz wrote:

McLaren wrote:Robo

You ask who knew the phrase bishop used was sexist, the answer is quite a lot of people, but don't worry if you were unaware of its sexist meaning.  You now know that it is sexist and should not feel any shame in having not known that, as long as you now accept the term as sexist and cease using it. We should be more willing to drop the use of phrases or behaviors once we find out they are inappropriate.

(and bishop continued to defend his use of the term even after its sexist meaning was pointed out)

Thank you for your comments... but next time somebody in my foursome leaves a 20 foot putt five feet short... I'm still gonna ask  "Does your husband play too?" or I'm gonna say "Nice putt Alice" or I'm gonna say, "Did your putter get hung up in your skirt?".  And by the way, that doesn't matter if that "somebody" in my foursome is male or female.  It hasn't stopped me before.. and it's not gonna stop me now.  

Oh!...  and by the way... I'd bet dollars to donuts.. it won't stop YOU either, now will it?

Robo, as I said earlier I am happy to admit I will end up being sexist in some scenarios and despite my best efforts not to be.  What I would like to think is that if a woman points out to me that I am being sexist I accept that and try to alter my behavior in future.  It is easy to dismiss what seem like trivial comments, but sexism is still a HUGE problem in our societies (western Europe and USA), meaning any sexist comment is perpetuating the problem and probably causing someone to feel Poopie.

McLaren wrote:Robo

You ask who knew the phrase bishop used was sexist, the answer is quite a lot of people...

I doubt it. Many people might have looked again at what he said in light of initial comment, but I suspect most wouldn't have thought that hard about it. And you have to think hard to view this as a real issue. This is a complete over-reaction but probably has more to do with his history as kwini suggests.
Frankly, I find most of this pathetic. It would be fine if it was a brush that's applied utterly objectively, to everyone, about everything. It's not as no-one wants that line of thinking to go to its obvious conclusion. There should obviously be zero discrimination of this type about anything/anyone by anyone, ever, on pain of death. There should be no humour at anyone else's expense, ever, etc etc.
More people need to just grow some balls (am I allowed to say that or is it sexist? ) about this sort of thing and learn how to answer back.

McLaren wrote:Robo, as I said earlier I am happy to admit I will end up being sexist in some scenarios and despite my best efforts not to be.  What I would like to think is that if a woman points out to me that I am being sexist I accept that and try to alter my behavior in future.  It is easy to dismiss what seem like trivial comments, but sexism is still a HUGE problem in our societies (western Europe and USA), meaning any sexist comment is perpetuating the problem and probably causing someone to feel Poopie.

I get that, and and I've acted accordingly as well.  

But in my mind...  this raises questions well beyond "is this sexist" and is somebody offended, and should we act accordingly.  IMO those questions are about what has become the rampant and out of control concept and use of "professional victim-hood".  Hey... if we want to have a discussion about sexism in golf and how we can end it... I'm ALL for it... bring it on.   But sheesh... let's not let petty stuff like this so offend us that we're afraid to have a discussion about the REAL issues of sexism in society... and IMO vilifying comments like Bishops serves to do exactly that.  

I'll be honest with you... Let's say I was a guy who had devoted a lifetime of work to the PGA of A... and had been rewarded with high positions...  and had designs of moving up further.  How would I react right now if Suzy Whaley wanted to conduct a round table on Sexism in golf and invited me to participate?  I'll tell you. Not only would I decline, but I'd RUN in the opposite direction as fast as I could in fear I might say the "wrong thing" and be labeled a sexist.  Because IMO that's exactly what happens when we take our eye off the ball on REAL sexism and engage in "witch hunts" over some ridiculously trivial comment like this...  Discussions of the REAL issues disappear behind the flames of burning the witches at the stake...

Davie wrote:"lil girl" mentions gender, and therefore I suppose, by definition is "sexist" .. but in no way do I feel it is a "sexist" comment in the way people are suggesting it is

In fact, the people who are objecting the most to the phrase "lil girl" are probably the most sexist of all as they are in fact implying there is something wrong with being a girl rather than a boy

Reminds me of the Russian Tennis boss calling Serena and Venus "The Williams Brothers". People going nuts (including Serena) and calling it sexist and racist. Sexist, yes. Racist, no. (Funny, yes.) In fact, people who thought it was racist must clearly be stereotyping themselves.

The Williams comment was deemed racist too? That's beyond belief! Was it the work "brothers" that gave it the racist connotation (in the minds of some people)? How else could it be considered racist?

Going back to Poultergate though .. the comment was out of order as someone in his position should NOT be insulting anyone on social media .. but in no way was it sexist

Davie

If you admit something is sexist what happens? It is like some god like entity put round the word that the world would be gobbled by a black hole if an ignorant white guy admitted a comment was sexist.

Who knows whether it was deliberately sexist but it was an unutterably stupid thing to say, and a puerile spat to get embroiled in.
It is Poulter's prerogative to be puerile, but certainly not the Pres of the PGA.

McLaren wrote:Davie

If you admit something is sexist what happens?  It is like some god like entity put round the word that the world would be gobbled by a black hole if an ignorant white guy admitted a comment was sexist.

Sorry that one just went right over my head. WTF are you talking about?

Kwin - Exactly ... with big exposure (and status and paycheck and perks) comes big scrutiny. No surprise that none of his peers (that I know of) are coming to his defense.

And Poulter has certainly (IMO) earned the right to comment long and loud about the Ryder Cup.

kwinigolfer wrote:Who knows whether it was deliberately sexist but it was an unutterably stupid thing to say, and a puerile spat to get embroiled in.
It is Poulter's prerogative to be puerile, but certainly not the Pres of the PGA.

Agreed.. and THAT's the crime Bishop should have been found guilty of and penalized accordingly. His crucifixion was way, way, way too much of a penalty IMO....

kwinigolfer wrote:Who knows whether it was deliberately sexist but it was an unutterably stupid thing to say, and a puerile spat to get embroiled in.
It is Poulter's prerogative to be puerile, but certainly not the Pres of the PGA.

And therein lies the truth of the matter. Suspect the 'sexism' was simply a reason to get rid of him.

Much in the news today about equal pay for Women in sport. In an ideal world, probably a good idea, however surely it's demand led?

Davie

My point is that people like you seem to think your world will cave in if you accept sexism still exists or ever accept an incident as sexist. I assume you are fearful of the patriarchy being challenged?

navyblueshorts wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:Who knows whether it was deliberately sexist but it was an unutterably stupid thing to say, and a puerile spat to get embroiled in.
It is Poulter's prerogative to be puerile, but certainly not the Pres of the PGA.

And therein lies the truth of the matter. Suspect the 'sexism' was simply a reason to get rid of him.

Think that's pretty obvious. Think the PGA had an internal spat over the RC and the aftermath and eventually they had enough of Bishop.
Stupid thing is just that they now solidify the Poulter legend even further.

McLaren wrote:Davie

My point is that people like you seem to think your world will cave in if you accept sexism still exists or ever accept an incident as sexist.  I assume you are fearful of the patriarchy being challenged?

mac - you do talk such carp sometimes (maybe most of the time actually now I think about it)

Of course I accept sexism still exists and I'm quite against it - when it is real and harmful. Where we differ is determining what is actually sexist. Or racist. Once again though you insult someone by seemingly accusing them of being sexist (i.e. me) when that couldn't be farther from the truth

Surely prize money in sport is simply a function of basic supply & demand economics? If there were a sport where more interest was generated by women playing than men, I'm sure the prize money would reflect that. Anyone got the figures for beach volleyball?

Exactly, to say a low demand womens sport should merit the same prize money as a high demand mans sport is lunacy.

It's like saying someone in a Amateur Dramatic production should get paid the same as a Hollywood actor, same job ultimately.

It would be the end of professional sport - the only survivor would be the Olympics and SJ's beach volleyball.

super_realist wrote:Exactly, to say a low demand womens sport should merit the same prize money as a high demand mans sport is lunacy.

It's like saying someone in a Amateur Dramatic production should get paid the same as a Hollywood actor, same job ultimately.

Specifically relating to golf, are women excluded from playing the PGA tour? Didn't Michelle Wie have a go at it once a few years back? If I'm right, in golf at least that would mean they can earn the same money as men...if they're good enough. Ironically, I don't think men are allowed to play on the LPGA tour.

More generally, it's all just economics. Higher standard sport obviously attracts more money. Most sports almost by definition favour strength and size. Men tend to be bigger and stronger than women. Two plus two usually equals four.

SHe did have a go, but then she probably wasn't much better than Kafelnikov, I've never rated her as a golfer at all and even the women at the very top couldn't really hope to compete. Sorenstam tried a couple of times, and having seen the women at St.Andrews recently, I was appalled at how short they were and how shabby their short games were.

Michelle Wie is no Kafelnikov. She missed the cut at the Sony Open at age 14, by one shot! She got to the Qtr finals of the USGA Mens Amateur Publinx Championship at age 15. And she came very close to qualifying for the US Open when she was 15.

She was a much better player at age 15 than she is now at age 25. But she didn't have any mental aptitude at that time. (She still doesn't have much as she has most of the skills). I think if Michelle at age 15 had Annika's 35 year old brain, she could have competitive on the PGATour.

There is no gender qualification for the PGATour or any of the "Mens" USGA championships. Anyone can try to make it. The USGA Boys Junior specifies that you have to be a male. Canadian Isabelle Beisiegel has tried to qualify for the PGATour several time (she has never passed pre-qualifying)

You have to have two X's chromosomes to be on the LPGA, (or technically if you have gone through a transgender operation).

I think a woman (at birth) can potentially compete on the PGAT. But she would be have to be exceptional at every aspect of the game.

Interesting read ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/27/sports/golf/golfing-like-a-girl-its-about-time.html?ref=golf

Sr,
I like Karen Crouse, don't know much about her but she avoids the Christine Brennan-like soapbox and is quite readable.
She's right to have a go at Golf Digest - what a mess that magazine has become.

Just come across this image:

http://instagram.com/p/lOPxW2pg8U/?modal=true

Your Honour, if I could just direct your attention to Mr. Ian Poulter's instagram comment at the top of this page about a "girlie" shaft? What a load of Poopie. Perhaps we can pile in to Poulter now? Particularly re. the utter hypocrisy of the man? D!ckhead.

What hypocrisy? I don't recall IJP crying over Bishop's comments

Davie wrote:What hypocrisy? I don't recall IJP crying over Bishop's comments

Umm, the hypocrisy of coming over all offended on behalf of women/little girls re. Bishop's comment when clearly, he's a hypocrit as evidenced by his own language. That hypocrisy.

I clearly missed something NBS .. I didn't see IJP coming over all offended about it. Plenty of others, but not him .. or did I miss it?

This one Davie:

"Is being called a 'lil girl' meant to be derogatory or a put down? That's pretty shocking and disappointing, especially coming from the leader of the PGA of America. No further comment.''

I'd just found that after I posted. Don't know about you but I don't read it as him being offended on behalf of women.

Again, people have a habit of reading too much into things .. simplest interpretation is that he was shocked the president of the PGAoA being either derogatory or attempting a put down. Occam's Razor

Davie wrote:I'd just found that after I posted. Don't know about you but I don't read it as him being offended on behalf of women.

Again, people have a habit of reading too much into things .. simplest interpretation is that he was shocked the president of the PGAoA being either derogatory or attempting a put down. Occam's Razor

Maybe so, although I don't think he was 'shocked' about a thing. A hypocrite and demonstrably so it would seem. Or just plain stupid. Possibly both.

Kwin - I like her stuff, too.

At the end of the day, words matter. You can't "force" someone into greater or lesser sensitivity to them, but you better have a handle on the audience you are broadcasting to.

navyblueshorts wrote:A hypocrite and demonstrably so it would seem.

Nope - you've not demonstrated it to me at least. If he had made a big fuss over the comments then I would agree with you - he didn't. That quote you mention is all I've found him say on the matter and concluded it with "no further comment". Hardly the actions of a hypocrite I'd day

It is others who are calling Bishop a sexist, not IJP. Personally I don't think either comment was sexist in their intended nature so it's hard to see where the hypocrisy lies

Davie wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:A hypocrite and demonstrably so it would seem.

Nope - you've not demonstrated it to me at least. If he had made a big fuss over the comments then I would agree with you - he didn't. That quote you mention is all I've found him say on the matter and concluded it with "no further comment". Hardly the actions of a hypocrite I'd day

It is others who are calling Bishop a sexist, not IJP. Personally I don't think either comment was sexist in their intended nature so it's hard to see where the hypocrisy lies

Hey ho. I'll take it as evidence just fine. Poulter was aiming his comment with specific reference to the alleged sexism that's become so much the rage.

I've taken the following from another forum, but I tend to agree wholeheartedly with what's written:

Bishop tweeted at 5.38pm and Poulter's first repsonse is timed at 11.04am (not sure where in the world that was and what the corresponding time zone adjustment would be)

"I guess we can only have opinions if you have won a major or 6 at least I'm happy being irrelevant"

I think Poulter's much, much more put out at being told that his views don't count for anything because he's not a good enough golfer (an arguably stranger position for the President of the USPGA to adopt incidentally, given that 99% of him membership won't have done). There's a complete absence of any geneder politics in his first response (perhaps the one that most reflects his own views and feelings?)

One of poluters next tweets suggests he's on a different time zone (China?)

"Wow that's a busy inbox this morning. What's just happened. Time to read for 30 mins and get back to you all.!"

Basically he's being peppered with media requests for a response and presumably he's now in contact with his PR people and managers formulating a response. He could, one assumes throw Bishop a lifeline if he chose, but this is still Ryder Cup residue, this is the USPGA, and Poulter is probably affronted. Instead he feigns a mock indignation whilst also seizing the higher moral ground. His response is a tweet that says "my response to at @ PGAofAmerica" and links to a Golf Channel press news story with the attributed quote "Is being called a "lil girl" meant to be derogatory or a put down? That's pretty shocking and disappointing, especially coming from the leader of the PGA of America. No further comment."

I think he sensed their was blood in the water and the chance to level the score, and when this was suggested to him, he's probably smiled, stroked his white cat, and pressed the button in the arm of his chair as Ted Bishop descends into the shark infested pool. Doubtless the first chapter of his next book will be entitled "how I took down the USPGA and won the Ryder Cup"

Well I too tend to agree with that longer quoted post. Still don't see how he is a hypocrite though after using the word "girlie" eight months ago

Davie wrote:...Still don't see how he is a hypocrite though after using the word "girlie" eight months ago

That would be because, IMO, he's implying that Bishop's comments are offensive and derogatory to women/little girls while, at the same time, he sees no issue in using the same stereotypical 'guy' language himself.
Don't get me wrong, I think this whole thing is the largest pile of Poopie. I don't, however, think it's clever to traduce someone when one falls foul of the same criteria. If that sort of language is wrong for Bishop, it's wrong for anyone to do it and it's particularly dumb for someone who uses that language to call out someone else who gets caught using it. Throwing stones in glass houses and all that, if nothing else.

You can however change your opinion Navy, and as pointed out Poulters post was 8 months back, so by castigating Bishop now, doesn't make him a hypocrite simply because he said the same 8 months back.

I agree though, this is a storm in a "lil girl's" plastic play tea cup.

super_realist wrote: ...I agree though, this is a storm in a "lil girl's" plastic play tea cup.

Indeed, and anyone one who thinks differently is a big Jessie.

super_realist wrote:You can however change your opinion Navy, and as pointed out Poulters post was 8 months back, so by castigating Bishop now, doesn't make him a hypocrite simply because he said the same 8 months back.

I agree though, this is a storm in a "lil girl's" plastic play tea cup.

Whatever. I doubt Poulter's changed anything. He's a hypocrite.
This whole PC Poopie is, generally, pathetic. If these whining ninnies actually wanted to make a difference, there's a whole lot more that they could take up arms against but I guess this is easier?

Bob_the_Job wrote:Indeed, and anyone one who thinks differently is a big Jessie.

Yep. Just a load of big girl's blouses...

Hard to disagree with this comment quoted in the NYT article shotrock posted;

“I do believe there is — how do I put it? — kind of a pervasive tone in the game of golf where we don’t even acknowledge sexism because it’s so ingrained,

Mac, I think you are in danger of over reacting here.

No one is for the subjugation of women, however this was clearly not meant as a sexist remark, even if some Guardianista's like yourself have taken it to be so.

It's no different to being called a "wuss", "wimp", "girls blouse" etc etc etc.


Clearly it was supposed to refer to childishness and immaturity, rather than denegrating someone on their gender.
I've got 5 nieces, I know just how childish and immature they can be.

Mac,
I think that comment was by someone called Paige McKenzie who works for the Golf Channel.
Don't know what she looks like but difficult to believe she feels there's nothing sexist about the way the GC presents its female announcers.

Officials gave Guan Tianlang a featured tee time with Billy Horschel and Charl Schwartzel. Thats odd.

Westy is in a featured group too. With Sergio and Top Five.

Kwini

yes sorry, I had intended to reference her name. I think she meant that she can clearly see sexism exists but that people like robo and davie are oblivious to the sexism that exists in the game and wider society.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Davie wrote:...Still don't see how he is a hypocrite though after using the word "girlie" eight months ago

That would be because, IMO, he's implying that Bishop's comments are offensive and derogatory to women/little girls

NBS .. we'll leave it there as you don't seem to be getting my point. As far as I'm concerned, Poulter though the comments were "offensive and derogatory" FULL STOP. I see nothing in IJP's comments that suggests HE thinks they were derogatory to girls or sexist - just that hose to insult in any way.

Agree Davie. NBS is just b!tching.  

And Paige MacKenzie!    Sexism in golf? I think you'd have to live on another planet to not notice. Together with racism, bigotry, sycopancy, self righteousness, nepotism and double standards.

Yet, Bishops comments were not sexist, neither were Poulters 8 months ago.

Just a few generations ago women weren't encouraged to go to university and weren't encouraged to play any sports, so I think we've come a long way ! There are bound to be people who think that progress has been too slow, just as there will always be people who would like to go back to the good old days. I really don't think many women were genuinely offended by Bishop's silly comments. I noticed there was very little reaction from any LPGA players -- presumably because either they didn't think it was a big deal, or because they didn't want to be labeled as hysterical females.

The numerous variations of "tough to putt when you've got a purse on your shoulder" etc don't bother me either. What would bother me would be if I wasn't allowed to play golf at certain times of the day simply because I am a woman, particularly if I needed to play golf for business purposes. Nothing like that has ever happened to me but if it had, then maybe I'd feel differently about the whole sexism in golf thing. Only playing on public golf courses means I'm insulated from the stuff that goes on in private clubs.

Made me laugh when I read a piece on the golf channel website praising Paige Mackenzie and Lauren Thompson for speaking out against the perceived sexism, and criticizing LPGA players for not saying anything. The golf channel is the worst ! The guys who appear on a regular basis seem to wear what they like -- slacks and a golf shirt, etc -- but the women (Paige and Lauren in particular) are dressed like they're at a cocktail party with massive heels, tight tops and/or cleavage etc. And you can often find pictures on the website of bikini -clad Amanda Dufner, Paulina Gretzky, cart girls, etc. They pay lip service to womens golf but mostly treat them as eye candy.

McLaren wrote:Hard to disagree with this comment quoted in the NYT article shotrock posted;

“I do believe there is — how do I put it? — kind of a pervasive tone in the game of golf where we don’t even acknowledge sexism because it’s so ingrained,

Actually, it's quite easy to disagree. Or, at least, to take it at face value in such a black & white fashion...

Davie wrote:NBS .. we'll leave it there as you don't seem to be getting my point. As far as I'm concerned, Poulter though the comments were "offensive and derogatory" FULL STOP. I see nothing in IJP's comments that suggests HE thinks they were derogatory to girls or sexist - just that hose to insult in any way.

No, I get your point. I just disagree with it. Maybe it's because Poulter's British and Bishop isn't?

pedro wrote:Agree Davie. NBS is just b!tching.  

pedro wrote:And Paige MacKenzie!    Sexism in golf? I think you'd have to live on another planet to not notice. Together with racism, bigotry, sycopancy, self righteousness, nepotism and double standards.

And yet comments from people like Mac portray all golfers as being like this and/or not being able to see it when it exists, which is pathetic and just as "offensive" as Bishop's remarks were. I'm afraid that's the trouble now - you can't say anything that's discriminatory, to anyone, as it's stereotyping and you can bet there's at least one little girl etc who doesn't conform to the sweeping statement and therefore finds such a remark "offensive". It's pathetic, but the PC Nazis are driving the bus at the moment I'm afraid.

pedro wrote:Yet, Bishops comments were not sexist, neither were Poulters 8 months ago.

No, I don't think they were and yet Bishop has lost his job after being traduced in public by assholes like Poulter etc. That would seem to be the sort of standard the public are after these days - despite it being patently stupid. If it's sauce for the goose, it's sauce for the gander I'm afraid. Sadly, the clothes horse will have to be labelled likewise as sexist and misogynistic. Shame.

I'd have questioned Bishop's leadership and maybe even fired him (although with only a month or two left on his contract, it's really only symbolic), but not because I thought he was particularly offensive.

I'd have done it because he was stupid enough to get drawn into a petty war of words. About something where the other person has more experience. In a public forum. With Ian Poulter. Poor judgment all round.