The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

England vs New Zealand 8th November

+69
Heaf
doctor_grey
Artful_Dodger
wrfc1980
majesticimperialman
BigTrevsbigmac
2ndtimeround
nobbled
thomh
maverickmak
aucklandlaurie
nganboy
protea438
Golden
Notch
Nachos Jones
MMaaxx
wolfball
TJ
BamBam
The Saint
stub
emack2
Pete330v2
sirtidychris
Mad for Chelsea
mystiroakey
GavinDragon
jamesandimac
goneagain
EnglishReign
Tiger/Chief
king_carlos
HongKongCherry
pledgeX
kingelderfield
beshocked
nathan
cb
Bathman_in_London
Wi11
SecretFly
Barney McGrew did it
hugehandoff
HQ matt
bedfordwelsh
johnpartle
Duty281
Hound of Harrow
ChequeredJersey
No 7&1/2
Geordie
yappysnap
TobyBryant
bluestonevedder
Sam
Sgt_Pooly
lostinwales
Welly
Cumbrian
gregortree
LondonTiger
WELL-PAST-IT
Wydnej
Poorfour
HammerofThunor
quinsforever
Taylorman
Rugby Fan
73 posters

Page 9 of 11 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 8, 9, 10, 11  Next

Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Rugby Fan Mon 3 Nov - 23:45

First topic message reminder :

Thought we might as well have a thread as we'll have the team announcements soon.

I see Myler is out of contention with a mild hamstring strain. Not serious enough to warrant a call-up for Cipriani or Burns, though. Attwood's wife is due to give birth any day, so that clouds the picture a little on his availability.

Hansen is apparently considering Carter and SBW for Twickenham, injury permitting.

England team to play New Zealand

M Brown (Harlequins); S Rokoduguni (Bath), B Barritt (Saracens), K Eastmond (Bath), J May (Gloucester) ; O Farrell (Saracens) , D Care (Harlequins); J Marler (Harlequins), D Hartley (Northampton), D Wilson (Bath), D Attwood (Bath), C Lawes (Northampton), T Wood (Northampton), C Robshaw (Harlequins, capt), B Vunipola (Saracens).

Replacements: R Webber (Bath), M Mullan (Wasps), K Brookes (Newcastle), G Kruis (Saracens), B Morgan (Gloucester), B Youngs (Leicester), G Ford (Bath), A Watson (Bath).

All Blacks (test caps in brackets)

15. Israel Dagg (45)
14. Ben Smith (35)
13. Conrad Smith (83)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (20)
11. Julian Savea (30)
10. Aaron Cruden (36)
9. Aaron Smith (36)
8. Kieran Read (70)
7. Richie McCaw (c) (134)
6. Jerome Kaino (54)
5. Sam Whitelock (60)
4. Brodie Retallick 34)
3. Owen Franks (65)
2. Dane Coles (24)
1. Wyatt Crockett (33)

Reserves:

16. Keven Mealamu (121)
17. Ben Franks (39)
18. Charlie Faumuina (24)
19. Patrick Tuipulotu (5)
20. Liam Messam (37)
21. TJ Perenara (8)
22. Beauden Barrett (26)
23. Ryan Crotty (10)


Last edited by Rugby Fan on Thu 6 Nov - 10:01; edited 3 times in total

Rugby Fan
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 7572
Join date : 2012-09-14

Back to top Go down


England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 8 Nov - 19:25

Id be surprised if you honestlty thought there was bias to England.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 31349
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 8 Nov - 19:26

If England could have played Manu and possibly Burrell, I think we could have done some real damage. With those to in the side, we wouldn't have been tempted into the very poor kicking in the second half as both will make ground and recycle the ball and make one or two breaks over a half, the sort of breaks that May and Brown should be on the shoulder of.

Attwood was superb, Launchbury was not missed at all in that respect, Kruis played well, but he lacks Lawes tackling ability. Lawes seeks out "victims", Kruis tackles when a player runs into his zone. Over 60 minutes that makes a big difference.

I have been a supporter of Farrell, but he disappointed today, after about 30 minutes when it started to get wet and you need a good kicking game, his game went downhill and we lost a lot of territory needlessly. Same with Care, not enough elevation on the ball to allow a decent challenge.

I will get slaughtered once again, but I still think the best all round 10 is Myler, he isn't quite as good as any of his competitors at any single skill, but he is better than them at others and has no weaknesses. With Myler at 10 and a Burrell Manu centre combination we would have a defensively sound back line that could attack from any direction. Especially with May's new found ability to run straight and hopefully off the shoulder of either very large lump in the centre. His pace is unbelievable and in space, well we saw today.

We look like we have three very good international class front rows with still more class props still to be tried, very encouraged by this. At least 4 and possibly 5 class locks and a back row that may not to be to everyones taste, but works, they did not look outclassed by the much vaunted AB back three today, I would say the Robshaw was better than McCaw; that is praise indeed.

Care was good apart from his 2nd half kicking which was poor and needs attention of he goes to the bench.

Didn't see Roko with enough ball in hand, again an English wing that seeks out the ball at club level failed to do the same for England. This to me confirms that it is strategy and not lack of form or ability. May on the other hand was a revelation, the try apart, he looked for the ball more than Roko, and used his pace to ensure nothing got by on his wing.

I think I would bring Nowell back in place of Roko, I like the ability of a wing to return the ball with accuracy when necessary or run it back when it's possible.

Eastmond was fine in defence as was Barritt, but they lacked any spark or the ability to make things happen, if only by shear physical force. I was looking for more from Eastmond, conditions didn't suit, but by RL standards in Yorks/Lancs it was a sunny day in the park.

I hope Lawes will be OK for next week, we will miss him if he isn't, Kitchener in for Kruis, he offers more in the tackling/carry departments.

Looking forward to next week.
WELL-PAST-IT
WELL-PAST-IT

Posts : 3644
Join date : 2011-06-01

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Guest Sat 8 Nov - 19:26

Nathan mate, open your other eye Wink

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by mystiroakey Sat 8 Nov - 19:52

where is GG these days, or does he have a new name?




mystiroakey

Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 46
Location : surrey

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by majesticimperialman Sat 8 Nov - 19:55

considering that this was the first game for England since the june test. I thought they played rather well.

Having just watched the Ireland v South Africa this after noon England will have to play better next week than they did this week.

majesticimperialman

Posts : 6170
Join date : 2011-02-11

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Geordie Sat 8 Nov - 19:55

Oh Abs ungracious winner's Ebop?

Dear me.


Geordie

Posts : 28323
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by thomh Sat 8 Nov - 19:58

majesticimperialman wrote:considering that this was the first game for England since the june test. I thought they played rather well.

Having just watched the Ireland v South Africa this after noon England will have to play better next week than they did this week.

Why is that? Fully expect a reaction from South Africa but I'd say on today's form we'd be strong favourites against them.

thomh

Posts : 1816
Join date : 2012-01-11

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Guest Sat 8 Nov - 19:58

Good question, where is Toby? I miss that guy. And where the heck is Kia, miss that guy to.

Calm down Geordie, twickers is a formidable place to play at and ref at. It was a close game and England played well but I think they can play better. So what you want, is that I shall refrain from saying anything else other than 'England are great'. Would that be better for you?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Guest Sat 8 Nov - 20:02

And by the way Geordie, I can call you a pom as that's what we call you down under. It's a fact. And it has nothing to do with prisoners and the queen. It's a term of endearment but I have to wonder sometimes.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by quinsforever Sat 8 Nov - 20:03

missed the first 15 minutes of the game, but it was good hard physical rugby after that. really thought farrell and care were very poor kicking from hand compared to how they performed in the AIs. that, combined with a few silly offsides gave NZ the massive possession that ultimately told the difference. a team cannot give NZ that much possession and expect to win. i thought the scoreline flattered us a bit truth be told.

i thought owens was much clearer at the breakdown than he usually is and like the fact he kept pinging people for not supporting their own bodyweight (ie hands/forearms on the ground).

but he did make a few strange decisions, and the communication between him and the tmo was poor. should have been a yellow for coles i thought, should either have been a try to whitelock or a penalty against him for not being behind the back foot (if the ball wasnt on the line) but i dont understand how it can have been a knockon. and i also thought it was a great dive/tackle over the ruck by Morgan that foiled the ABs attack on englands tryline, and that the reason a judge couldnt give him the number of an england player offside is that Morgan wasnt. blame the prop who was slow at distributing the ball, but Morgan's tackle looked good to me.

thought it was funny when they reviewed the NZ try - i saw the replay which made it look like the advertisers slogan looked like the tryline and the ball looked short. maybe there shouldnt be a while line at the bottom of an advertiser's on-pitch banner?

positives -
awesome defence and cracking tackling
thought eastmond was superb in defence
attwood great game
scrum looked good
lineout very solid

negatives -
quite a few but its englands first game for a while. and farrell really shouldnt have been playing. cant blame farrell for being so rusty. he didnt pick himself. his dad did...DOH!

quinsforever

Posts : 6765
Join date : 2013-10-10

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by nathan Sat 8 Nov - 20:07

I don't think Farrell was anywhere near as bad as some are making out. Yes our kicking was rusty and care can be blamed for some of this but the whole team was rusty

nathan

Posts : 11033
Join date : 2011-06-14
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by wrfc1980 Sat 8 Nov - 20:08

Shouldnt the nz yellow have been red?

wrfc1980

Posts : 440
Join date : 2011-06-04

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by nathan Sat 8 Nov - 20:09

No, I thought that was for a stamp to the head?

nathan

Posts : 11033
Join date : 2011-06-14
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by quinsforever Sat 8 Nov - 20:12

nathan wrote:I don't think Farrell was anywhere near as bad as some are making out. Yes our kicking was rusty and care can be blamed for some of this but the whole team was rusty
if we kick that much, the kicking needs to be better. no ifs no buts. if we arent confident in our kicking then dont kick as much.

quinsforever

Posts : 6765
Join date : 2013-10-10

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by yappysnap Sat 8 Nov - 20:16

If we're going with ref bias then how about the first NZ try being pretty dubious, and the whole lead up to the second being off the most blatant playing the ball on the floor by Mccaw? Both of which were watched by Owens and he allowed to happen.

Add to that a pretty clear forward pass fielding a kick and one of their locks playing Roko in the air and I think NZ got away with more then enough.

Still doesn't take away from the fact that we just weren't clinical enough when we did dominate in their half and that we managed to concede 3 points while they were a man down! Doh

yappysnap

Posts : 11993
Join date : 2011-06-01
Age : 36
Location : Christchurch, NZ

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by aucklandlaurie Sat 8 Nov - 20:17

Quins, interesting situation that one where after awarding the try, Owens decided to have another look at the Faumuina try:

1. He had already awarded the try.
2.He was persueded by the booing of the crowd that there was something wrong with the try.
3. No other official told him to have a second look.
4. The replay showed the try was fine.
5. He reawarded the try.
5. He then apologised to Beuden Barrett, said "sorry".

Where my concerns lies with this is that, He should not be letting himself be influenced by the crowd, the damage caused by this is that one team has an advantage of influence over the ref that the other team doesnt have.

aucklandlaurie

Posts : 7561
Join date : 2011-06-27
Age : 67
Location : Auckland

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by quinsforever Sat 8 Nov - 20:25

aucklandlaurie wrote:Quins, interesting situation that one where after awarding the try, Owens decided to have another look at the Faumuina try:

1. He had already awarded the try.
2.He was persueded by the booing of the crowd that there was something wrong with the try.
3. No other official told him to have a second look.
4. The replay showed the try was fine.
5. He reawarded the try.
5. He then apologised to Beuden Barrett, said "sorry".

Where my concerns lies with this is that, He should not be letting himself be influenced by the crowd, the damage caused by this is that one team has an advantage of influence over the ref that the other team doesnt have.
he wasnt influenced by the crowd. he, the crowd, and i, were shown on the big screen an unfortunate camera angle that made the line of the advertisers slogan appear like the tryline and faumuina was just short of it.

cant blame the crowd or anyone watching as that is what it looked like

blame the broadcaster for being able to show whatever they like whenever they like
blame the rfu and unions in general for allowing advertiser slogans so close to the tryline as to be misleading on occasion

cant blame the crowd though

and the right decision was reaffirmed so i dont see what the problem was.

quinsforever

Posts : 6765
Join date : 2013-10-10

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Poorfour Sat 8 Nov - 20:27

aucklandlaurie wrote:Quins, interesting situation that one where after awarding the try, Owens decided to have another look at the Faumuina try:

1. He had already awarded the try.
2.He was persueded by the booing of the crowd that there was something wrong with the try.
3. No other official told him to have a second look.
4. The replay showed the try was fine.
5. He reawarded the try.
5. He then apologised to Beuden Barrett, said "sorry".

Where my concerns lies with this is that, He should not be letting himself be influenced by the crowd, the damage caused by this is that one team has an advantage of influence over the ref that the other team doesnt have.

No, you've got 2 wrong. He was persuaded to take another look because it was replayed while Barrett was lining up his kick. I was there and it was very clear he had been watching the screen and wanted to check. What was bizarre was that he then looked at one angle, once, and then gave the try, From the replays in the ground it looked like it merited more of a review than that.
Poorfour
Poorfour

Posts : 6016
Join date : 2011-10-01

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by yappysnap Sat 8 Nov - 20:27

aucklandlaurie wrote:Quins, interesting situation that one where after awarding the try, Owens decided to have another look at the Faumuina try:

1. He had already awarded the try.
2.He was persueded by the booing of the crowd that there was something wrong with the try.
3. No other official told him to have a second look.
4. The replay showed the try was fine.
5. He reawarded the try.
5. He then apologised to Beuden Barrett, said "sorry".

Where my concerns lies with this is that, He should not be letting himself be influenced by the crowd, the damage caused by this is that one team has an advantage of influence over the ref that the other team doesnt have.

I agree completely, once the decision is made then he should stand by it, just with the far more suspect NZ try in the first half.

Thankfully you're completely wrong in this case, Owens actually made his decision off the back of the replay on the screen. Is that better? Well I guess your viewpoint will change depending upon who you support, but I guess for him to check it and even be watching the screen he must have had some doubt.

yappysnap

Posts : 11993
Join date : 2011-06-01
Age : 36
Location : Christchurch, NZ

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Artful_Dodger Sat 8 Nov - 20:27

quinsforever wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Quins, interesting situation that one where after awarding the try, Owens decided to have another look at the Faumuina try:

1. He had already awarded the try.
2.He was persueded by the booing of the crowd that there was something wrong with the try.
3. No other official told him to have a second look.
4. The replay showed the try was fine.
5. He reawarded the try.
5. He then apologised to Beuden Barrett, said "sorry".

Where my concerns lies with this is that, He should not be letting himself be influenced by the crowd, the damage caused by this is that one team has an advantage of influence over the ref that the other team doesnt have.


blame the broadcaster for being able to show whatever they like whenever they like
blame the rfu and unions in general for allowing advertiser slogans so close to the tryline as to be misleading on occasion

laughing It never ends does it Quins?

Artful_Dodger

Posts : 4260
Join date : 2011-05-31

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by LondonTiger Sat 8 Nov - 20:29

ebop wrote:And by the way Geordie, I can call you a pom as that's what we call you down under. It's a fact. And it has nothing to do with prisoners and the queen. It's a term of endearment but I have to wonder sometimes.

If a term of endearment why is it usually delivered by people with a snarl and a sneer. i have never, ever heard anyone refer to another as a pom in a "pleasant" way in the real world. Thus when it is used in the virtual works i would always read it as an insult.

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 23485
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Taylorman Sat 8 Nov - 20:29

mystiroakey wrote:Great win aucks, taylor, ebob and the rest.

it started really peeing down hard in the end and your intensity start of the second half did the damage- bth teams were guilty of missing chances, but your never lose attitude won the battle- the war is yet to come.


Thanks Mysti,
I'm just happy to have got away with the win. All 3 main SH sides could have lost today. We just have to get a better wet weather game. It absolutely levels our attacking abilities to the point where every wet match is a cliff hanger vs the top 4 or 5 sides.

This weekend has told me there are at least 6 sides capable of winning in the NH next year. Wales and Ireland just came into reckoning.

Taylorman

Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by quinsforever Sat 8 Nov - 20:31

Artful_Dodger wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Quins, interesting situation that one where after awarding the try, Owens decided to have another look at the Faumuina try:

1. He had already awarded the try.
2.He was persueded by the booing of the crowd that there was something wrong with the try.
3. No other official told him to have a second look.
4. The replay showed the try was fine.
5. He reawarded the try.
5. He then apologised to Beuden Barrett, said "sorry".

Where my concerns lies with this is that, He should not be letting himself be influenced by the crowd, the damage caused by this is that one team has an advantage of influence over the ref that the other team doesnt have.


blame the broadcaster for being able to show whatever they like whenever they like
blame the rfu and unions in general for allowing advertiser slogans so close to the tryline as to be misleading on occasion

laughing  It never ends does it Quins?
ok, blame the prl and top14 too if they let advertiser slogans be so close to the tryline. thing is in this case it's QBE and the AIs so i cant really blame the clubs for that now can i.

jeez, some people are so sensitive Hug

quinsforever

Posts : 6765
Join date : 2013-10-10

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 8 Nov - 20:31

mystiroakey wrote:where is GG these days, or does he have a new name?

He is pretending to be a Yank, but the nature and construct of his post points him out rather easily


WELL-PAST-IT
WELL-PAST-IT

Posts : 3644
Join date : 2011-06-01

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by mystiroakey Sat 8 Nov - 20:32

He promised to leave if the spread for the nz v eng tour games was less than 30. I take it after it was only 29 the yank was born!!

mystiroakey

Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 46
Location : surrey

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Taylorman Sat 8 Nov - 20:34

LondonTiger wrote:
ebop wrote:And by the way Geordie, I can call you a pom as that's what we call you down under. It's a fact. And it has nothing to do with prisoners and the queen. It's a term of endearment but I have to wonder sometimes.

If a term of endearment why is it usually delivered by people with a snarl and a sneer. i have never, ever heard anyone refer to another as a pom in a "pleasant" way in the real world. Thus when it is used in the virtual works i would always read it as an insult.

really? I didnt realise that as per ebops comment. I see it the same way we call ourselves kiwis. And its also easier to write 3 letters. but point taken.

Taylorman

Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Bathman_in_London Sat 8 Nov - 20:35

Owens had an odd game alright, not his usual self I thought.

Anyway from an England point of view that was very disappointing. The first half had some good energy but that second half was just limp. The game was crying out to have someone grab it by the scruff of the neck and England just seemed to refuse to, as soon as we had the ball we'd get a scrappy box kick from Care.

We had the wing who has made the most yards in the league and we didn't get the ball to him! In fact aside from Mays try I think there was little to shout about in the backs at all. The forwards were better, Attwood was the standout for me, if he keeps that up its hard to see him going back to 3rd/4th choice.

Well done to NZ though, they deserved to win, in particular they handled the sin bin period very well.

Bathman_in_London

Posts : 2266
Join date : 2011-06-03

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by quinsforever Sat 8 Nov - 20:38

i thought nz were awesome in the last 20. those 22 phases that ended with the faumuina try, in those conditions, with the big hit tackles that the english were putting in, were a cut above what any other rugby team is capable of currently.

quinsforever

Posts : 6765
Join date : 2013-10-10

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Taylorman Sat 8 Nov - 20:44

quinsforever wrote:
Artful_Dodger wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Quins, interesting situation that one where after awarding the try, Owens decided to have another look at the Faumuina try:

1. He had already awarded the try.
2.He was persueded by the booing of the crowd that there was something wrong with the try.
3. No other official told him to have a second look.
4. The replay showed the try was fine.
5. He reawarded the try.
5. He then apologised to Beuden Barrett, said "sorry".

Where my concerns lies with this is that, He should not be letting himself be influenced by the crowd, the damage caused by this is that one team has an advantage of influence over the ref that the other team doesnt have.


blame the broadcaster for being able to show whatever they like whenever they like
blame the rfu and unions in general for allowing advertiser slogans so close to the tryline as to be misleading on occasion

laughing  It never ends does it Quins?
ok, blame the prl and top14 too if they let advertiser slogans be so close to the tryline. thing is in this case it's QBE and the AIs so i cant really blame the clubs for that now can i.

jeez, some people are so sensitive Hug

I know what Laurie is referring to and despite the arguments either way no one actually 'knows' whether he was persuaded or not. I probably agree he was genuinely interested as he awarded a 'bodies everywhere' type of try on the spot where normally a ref might check it...i.e. he was checking his own 'handiwork'..

But its no precedent. Same thing happened in the handing of the winning penalty in South Africa.

There it was the 'selective' view combined with the booing that appeared to make the ref look at the screen- who unlike the try here knew nothing of the incident. It was an offense anyway so the right ruling. Same with this one.


Taylorman

Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 8 Nov - 20:47

I have slightly contradictory thoughts about todays game, I thought the AB for 50 minutes were by far the better side, I also thought that the first try was highly questionable and Owens wouldn't go to the TMO after he had awarded it to check, possibly why he did for the third one. I also though that England were penalised a couple of times, one cost us three points incorrectly.

We got pinged for being on the wrong side despite not interfering at all with the ball and being held down by the ABs. McCaw as his ability seemed to obstruct the quick release of virtually every ruck without being pinged; he must have a shield of invisibility to refs when within 1m of a breakdown.

Definitely we did not get the rub of the green, (we never do with Owens), but I can't say we deserved to win on the balance of play
WELL-PAST-IT
WELL-PAST-IT

Posts : 3644
Join date : 2011-06-01

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Taylorman Sat 8 Nov - 20:48

Bathman_in_London wrote:

Well done to NZ though, they deserved to win, in particular they handled the sin bin period very well.

yes I found the English tactic of kicking to NZ during that period puzzling. The best way to take advantage of 14 men is to run them ragged in defence until the player down is exposed. Don't see how giving us the ball does that. But like many of our tests lately...we got there...just...but no cigar. Hopefully that helps us next year...as we're going to need it.

Taylorman

Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by yappysnap Sat 8 Nov - 20:53

The yellow card period was poor from us, a case of the half backs playing to the coaches gameplan rather then what's needed to be done

yappysnap

Posts : 11993
Join date : 2011-06-01
Age : 36
Location : Christchurch, NZ

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by ChequeredJersey Sat 8 Nov - 20:54

Biggest things to fix for me: chasing our kicks and fielding kicks. Didn't help that MB had a mixed day at the office and a poor one in the air, but when we are kicking a lot of ball (rightly so in these conditions and circumstances and the kicks were generally good) and receiving a lot back, if we lose every 50-50 ball in the air, the amount of possession and more importantly territory we can get is hugely limited. We needed 60 percent to get a close win in the first half, and fantastic work by the pack and halfbacks, despite what was written above by others, to manage that. In a fairer world, the first half might (not would) have been 14-6. In the second half, they dominated possession and territory and frankly our HBs had no option at all other than to kick and they kicked well and most of those balls in the air were contestable. I don't tjjnk we won a single contested ball in the air in the second half and it killed our chances
ChequeredJersey
ChequeredJersey

Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 34
Location : London, UK

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Geordie Sat 8 Nov - 20:58

ebop wrote:And by the way Geordie, I can call you a pom as that's what we call you down under. It's a fact. And it has nothing to do with prisoners and the queen. It's a term of endearment but I have to wonder sometimes.
In what way is it a term of endearment?

Geordie

Posts : 28323
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Geordie Sat 8 Nov - 21:03

ebop wrote:Good question, where is Toby? I miss that guy. And where the heck is Kia, miss that guy to.

Calm down Geordie, twickers is a formidable place to play at and ref at. It was a close game and England played well but I think they can play better. So what you want, is that I shall refrain from saying anything else other than 'England are great'. Would that be better for you?

Your insinuating England get everything at Twickenham. Do you not think other teams don't get calls at their major stadiums??



Geordie

Posts : 28323
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Bathman_in_London Sat 8 Nov - 21:05

Taylorman wrote:
Bathman_in_London wrote:

Well done to NZ though, they deserved to win, in particular they handled the sin bin period very well.

yes I found the English tactic of kicking to NZ during that period puzzling. The best way to take advantage of 14 men is to run them ragged in defence until the player down is exposed. Don't see how giving us the ball does that. But like many of our tests lately...we got there...just...but no cigar. Hopefully that helps us next year...as we're going to need it.

Yeah mate, very odd,I know it was raining but surely that's the time to have a go, there seemed to be a real lack of brains at half back. I thought your guys looked pretty good to me, not going to make many of their highlight reels but always looked like they were going to win I thought.

Bathman_in_London

Posts : 2266
Join date : 2011-06-03

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by thomh Sat 8 Nov - 22:08

Bathman_in_London wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Bathman_in_London wrote:

Well done to NZ though, they deserved to win, in particular they handled the sin bin period very well.

yes I found the English tactic of kicking to NZ during that period puzzling. The best way to take advantage of 14 men is to run them ragged in defence until the player down is exposed. Don't see how giving us the ball does that. But like many of our tests lately...we got there...just...but no cigar. Hopefully that helps us next year...as we're going to need it.

Yeah mate, very odd,I know it was raining but surely that's the time to have a go, there seemed to be a real lack of brains at half back. I thought your guys looked pretty good to me, not going to make many of their highlight reels but always looked like they were going to win I thought.
Sadly true. At half time we were ahead but I remember saying that I just couldn't visualise us winning from that position. We'd wasted chances and when NZ got the ball we were looking vulnerable. 

The coaches talk about improving 'accuracy' and taking chances as if that's merely small details, but ultimately the reason that NZ manage to do that is that they're more skilled and composed than us. 

Our forwards are possibly the best around, but NZ's backs are on another level completely right now.

thomh

Posts : 1816
Join date : 2012-01-11

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 8 Nov - 22:15

England certainly didn't get calls they shouldn't, Owens was extremely strict on us at the breakdown, more so than NZ imo.

I've been reading rating and see May has been getting an 8 along with Attwood.

Is it me or was May pretty poor bar his try? Smith had a bit of a field day down his channel and he was poor under the high ball.

Sgt_Pooly

Posts : 36294
Join date : 2011-04-27

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by quinsforever Sat 8 Nov - 22:22

just watching the first 15 mins that i missed. if owens had gone to the tmo for cruden's try it wouldnt have been given. pretty obvious second placement after the first one

quinsforever

Posts : 6765
Join date : 2013-10-10

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Barney McGrew did it Sat 8 Nov - 22:25

Well first, given everyone including myself, thought we’d be stuffed, we didn’t do too badly.

Our pack was pretty decent, particularly as we we’d lost so many of our 1st choice FR and SR.

And given our back line was full of 2nd choices or relatively new boys it kept the much vaunted ABs surprisingly quiet (altho the weather helped there).

What we lacked were any playmakers today. Care’s kicking was schoolboy (should have been replaced sooner), OF was no better than average (even his celebrated goal kicking), Brown looked a bit lost, and we had no kicking centre.

The bench was ok but I still think replacing one no 8 with another similar no 8 shows muddled thinking by Stewie.
Barney McGrew did it
Barney McGrew did it

Posts : 1604
Join date : 2012-02-23
Location : Trumpton

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Taylorman Sat 8 Nov - 22:26

thomh wrote:
Bathman_in_London wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Bathman_in_London wrote:

Well done to NZ though, they deserved to win, in particular they handled the sin bin period very well.

yes I found the English tactic of kicking to NZ during that period puzzling. The best way to take advantage of 14 men is to run them ragged in defence until the player down is exposed. Don't see how giving us the ball does that. But like many of our tests lately...we got there...just...but no cigar. Hopefully that helps us next year...as we're going to need it.

Yeah mate, very odd,I know it was raining but surely that's the time to have a go, there seemed to be a real lack of brains at half back. I thought your guys looked pretty good to me, not going to make many of their highlight reels but always looked like they were going to win I thought.
Sadly true. At half time we were ahead but I remember saying that I just couldn't visualise us winning from that position. We'd wasted chances and when NZ got the ball we were looking vulnerable. 

The coaches talk about improving 'accuracy' and taking chances as if that's merely small details, but ultimately the reason that NZ manage to do that is that they're more skilled and composed than us. 

Our forwards are possibly the best around, but NZ's backs are on another level completely right now.

we seem to get stronger when we're a man down and that just isn't logical really. Sure the other 14 might feel they need to step up but if thats the case why werent they at that level with 15?

gotta say though May's try was a gem. Never heard of him before this match but one for the books. Love it when an individual goes for it 100% with ball in hand. Not enough of it. Sure made us look silly.

Taylorman

Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by emack2 Sat 8 Nov - 22:52

Question why was the First choice AB front row replaced so early they were going well.
Was Retalick injured? replaced at half time,goal kicking was as predicted poor but excellent
wet weather game by ABs.

Owens had a mixed game and England got the best of them Coles yellow fair enough but
Hartley who started the ruckus should have gone too.Penalty Try?both sides were going
round and up.in the conditions under foot a reset is the norm.

Well done Scotland and Ireland,plus Wales double bonus point loss to Australia does that
mean England are back to IRB number 4 now?

emack2

Posts : 3686
Join date : 2011-04-01
Age : 80
Location : Bournemouth

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by ChequeredJersey Sat 8 Nov - 23:02

England got the best of them? Really?


Shocking that it was a yellow not a red, Hartley could have had a yellow too but only if Coles got a red. Equating a vicious needless kick that was intended to harm (not even the wrong doer) and could have seriously injured at the same level as a cynical tug is nonsensical
ChequeredJersey
ChequeredJersey

Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 34
Location : London, UK

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by yappysnap Sat 8 Nov - 23:08

Especially as Hartley was tugging the guy AFTER the whistle had been blown and everyone else was wandering off, idiotic by the NZ player; but just like with Healy before him if you kick at a guys ankle it's only yellow as that's not really dangerous is it?

yappysnap

Posts : 11993
Join date : 2011-06-01
Age : 36
Location : Christchurch, NZ

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by ChequeredJersey Sat 8 Nov - 23:17

I'd call a broken ankle, a very real possibility, pretty dangerous
ChequeredJersey
ChequeredJersey

Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 34
Location : London, UK

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by doctor_grey Sat 8 Nov - 23:23

Just got home from playing this afternoon on the wonderful artificial turf at Randall's Island park in the middle of the East River. Saw the England-NZ match right before I left and was disappointed by their play in the second half. Clearly, the ABs were a level ahead of this England team, and there is clear work for England to do. Will watch again this evening and should be able to get a better read on both teams with a beer in my hand and my posterior on the couch.

Shame about Wales, but happy for Ireland and especially Scotland. Hopefully I will have to watch those martches over the next few days as well.

doctor_grey

Posts : 11870
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by quinsforever Sat 8 Nov - 23:30

having watched the rest of the highlights again, i think owens really messed up some of the bigger calls.

whitelock's was either a try or penalty. knock on is a cop-out. and it looked like it might have been on the line therefore try imo.

cruden's should have been reviewed as there was more than one movement, why wouldt you review it?

couple of big free passes given to motm mccaw who won a couple of key turnovers while off his feet.

i generally like the refereeing of the breakdwon from owens, but unusually for him thought he got some of the more serious calls not up to his usual standard.

also not sure england really deserved the pen try for the scrum at the end, much as i was happy to see it awarded.

quinsforever

Posts : 6765
Join date : 2013-10-10

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by quinsforever Sat 8 Nov - 23:36

ie, i think owens interpretation of the big calls net net favoured england.

quinsforever

Posts : 6765
Join date : 2013-10-10

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Taylorman Sat 8 Nov - 23:37

yeah I didnt really get that penalty try as the scrum was still up I think. But I've no idea what goes on up there. Just seems whenever one side marches the other over the line and nothing happens up goes the arm.

With Whitelock rules do say downward pressure is required in that situation...question is was there? I thought there was a hint of it before the ball propelled forward. Very slight though.

"If the ball lands in the opposition's in-goal, usually as a result of a kick or the opposition losing possession, a player can score by applying downward pressure with their hands, their arms, or the front of their body".

Taylorman

Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by quinsforever Sat 8 Nov - 23:45

yeah. was a mistake of Care to roll it back onto the line with his foot.

owens bottled it.

and these tmos just cave in to whatever the ref says is "how he sees it"

it just cant have been a knock on. how can a player not exert downward pressure on a ball that is stationary and on the ground? its very very basic physics. his hand would have to be moving on a level plane with the ball, and whitelocks was most definitely not.

wierd. didnt affect the result though thankfully. but not owens best moment i think.

quinsforever

Posts : 6765
Join date : 2013-10-10

Back to top Go down

England vs New Zealand 8th November - Page 9 Empty Re: England vs New Zealand 8th November

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 9 of 11 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 8, 9, 10, 11  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum