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PGA Tour: All the Presidents (Cup) Men: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:57 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).Only exhibitions on this week's schedule so let's look back at an event that has also been charitably described as an exhibition - with the odds heavily weighted towards the organizer.
Ah yes, the Presidents Cup!
The USA comfortably beat the International Team at Muirfield Village in 2013, but the members of each Team have "enjoyed" contrasting fortunes since then.

2).Team USA only have 3 x 2014 PGA Tour wins between them, one (Zach Johnson) in a limited field Tournament of Champions, another (Kuchar) by holing a 72nd hole bunker shot and Hunter Mahan's back-from-oblivion Barclays win. What have you done for me lately Messrs Bradley, Dufner, Haas, Mickelson, Simpson (altho' he did have a nice 2013 win in Las Vegas), Snedeker, Spieth (but what a final round master class he produced last Sunday in Sydney), Stricker, Woods?
Wonder how the Gleneagles US Ryder Cuppers will fare? Good starts by Bubba and Spieth, that's for sure.

3).The Internationals haven't done much better but Day and Scott had good wins on two Tours, Kings Charl & Louis did the business in South Africa, while Matsuyama proved that a second trip to Muirfield Village, for the Memorial, was the charm. For him at least. Whilst the biggest surprise might have been Angel Cabrera's win at The Greenbrier. Steady regression though from the De's Jonge & Laet, Els, Grace and Sterne, while Leishman flattered only to deceive.
Sterne, incidentally, is tied bottom of the PGA Tour's web.com Tour graduate reshuffle and will struggle to get in to many Tour fields, plus has lost his Top 50 status. The early favourite among tourists to lose his PGA Tour card.

4).The leaders for each Team for 2015, in South Korea, are:
*USA:
Watson, Walker, Kirk, Furyk, Moore, Kuchar, ZJohnson, Spieth, Horschel, Simpson + 2 x Capatain's Choices. (Still not quite sure how these points are accumulated . . . . )

*International:
Scott, Day, Matsuyama, Schwartzel, Jaidee, Leishman, Senden, DeLaet, Oda, Oosthuizen + 2.

5).web.com Q-School Finals kick off next week and European Tour members are voting with their passports, American David Lipsky being the most notable exception. Rikard Karlberg will be there, mini-Tour veteran Seamus Power from Ireland and Stefan Jaeger too, but no other Europeans that I can spot. Lots of Aussies but the days of European Tour golfers coming over for Q-School seem to be over for now. Not surprisingly.


PS: Let's hope we never lose a Tour Golfer in the freakish circumstances that Cricket lost Phillip Hughes. But, if we do, I wonder if a colleague will provide quite the quality of eulogy delivered today by Michael Clarke? What a moving tribute. Wish we had a Cricket Bat emoticon.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:57 pm

robo,
I called it on Saturday night, Sunday morning; the potential Miracle at Medinah.
Putting the frat boys out front and centre - just daft. And we said so then!

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Post by robopz Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:30 am

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
I called it on Saturday night, Sunday morning; the potential Miracle at Medinah.
Putting the frat boys out front and centre - just daft. And we said so then!
Still don't how the "frat boys" out first was a mistake (except in 20-20 hindsight).  Love knows the value of momentum in Sunday singles, and knew the Euro's were gonna come out firing with their best early to try to gain just that.  Except for Woods,  who's usually great in singles and used for a back stop, those were the 4 best performing players he had with the best chance of preventing Europe the early lead.

To me the biggest problem on Sunday was Phil who should have been the early stopper, but instead displayed such a total ignorance of match play "mental dynamics" it was astonishing.  I can't think of ANYTHING that could have given an opponent more of a boost of confidence than what Phil was doing by continually issuing ever bigger and bigger smiles, thumbs up and congratulations every time Justin Rose rammed another putt up his a$$. Not to take anything away from Rose's amazing performance, but there is absolutely NOTHING Phil could have possibly done to elevate Rose's performance more than he did.  Ben Hogan had to be rolling over while Seve Ballesteros was dancing a jig in their respective graves.  I'd rather have seen Phil give Rose more of a "you're a lucky SOB aren't ya" attitude instead of trying to put on a show to the world about what a "great sport" he was, when in fact he was acting the fool.

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:42 am

Like Gentle Ben said, "I had a feeling"!
And Rose had beaten Phil at Valhalla so knew he didn't have anything to fear. Just like Oak Hill, Europe was very lucky/intuitive (and I called that too, from the bus queue exiting OH!) with the match-ups.

But Watson, Simpson, Bradley, Sneds (still don't think they've won a singles between them) were never going to win their matches - and St.Luke was the perfect lead-off hitter, followed by guys with a chip on their shoulder.

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:54 am

robo,
Just read the relevant pages from the 2012 Ryder Cup thread - very prescient, DLIII should have been reading! Except I thought McDool should be opening the batting. Two years earl;y, that's all.

With this task force that the PGAOA is getting away from the basics, listening to he who shouts the loudest.

Ray Floyd - give me a break.
Woods - he didn't even show up.

Lehman, Love, Stricker, Furyk, Phil - all good men but what do they know about winning Ryder Cups?

I feel they made a bad mistake not choosing David Toms for Gleneagles, and they'll compound that error if they go with Mr.Popularity, Fred, for Hazeltine.

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Post by robopz Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:55 am

You'll get no dispute from me that as it turned out, it all lined up about as perfectly as it could have for the Euro's that year. But my observations have always been that generally you're best off riding your hot hands in what you perceive are going to be the important spots in the lineup. DLIII did just that, but it didn't work out.

But when I look through the American line up (again trying to remember without the benefit of hindsight), short of possibly playing the normally reliable singles playing Tiger early, I don't know who else Love could have shifted up in the order that would have made much of if any difference. And then looking at the tail end of the Euro lineup, not exactly a bunch of easy picking chumps for the frat boys to beat up on down there either... except for maybe Sergio who was obviously in a funk...

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Post by robopz Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:10 am

Kwini... I don't think the committee is necessary listening to who shouts loudest, if so they listen to Azinger because he shouted the loudest of all, he just did it in a grandstanding way, and individually instead of within the group.   But hey, they put together this ridiculous committee... and if you don't want people to voice their opinions... then don't invite them to be on the committee.   But I'll say this... yeah, lots of "questionable" choices to be on this committee, but quite frankly, remove any of them, and IMO all you're left with is maybe even more questionable potential replacements.

Bottom line... there's only ONE outcome to this committee they need to reach... and any dolt could  have told them what it was without the necessity to have a committee in the first place.  PICK THE BEST QUALIFIED, MOST WELL RESPECTED & LIKED CAPTAIN THEY CAN FIND and GET FUTURE POTENTIAL CAPTAINS INVOLVED TO GAIN SOME EXPERIENCE.  It's really just that simple... no need for all the hand wringing.  And right now that seems to go towards Couples or Azinger... I say get Freddie, and see if you can get Azinger to set aside his titanic sized ego long enough to serve as a vice captain. If Azinger can't, then tell him to STFU up and just stay home.   Then get some of those guys who you "think" might be good future captains in as assistants also.  But being an assistant now does NOT mean some guaranteed future captaincy... They need to stick with who they believe is the BEST for the job for as long as they need to, even if that means keeping the same whomever year after year after  year...

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:59 am

Fortunately Sergio (and Luke) beat Woods & Stricker in the four ball match preceding Poulter & McIlroy on the Saturday, a match (and especially Luke's shot into Medinah's 17th) that, in my eyes at least, was as crucial or more so, than Poulter's heroics vs Duf and Z.

Then of course he beat Furyk. Nice funk!

We'll see soon enough what they come up with . . . . . hopefully DC will have some answers.

I'd imagine that Furyk and Phil, despite their poor playing records, will be good Captains eventually. Win or lose.

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Post by incontinentia Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:16 am

Davie wrote:
The others are part of Great Britain (so is the WHOLE of the island of Ireland)
Geography isn't your strong point is it? Or maybe you're on the wind-up...The Island of Ireland is not part of great (oxymoron) britain. It is part of the british isles, but that's it.

You have quite a bee in your bonnet about McIlroy declaring for Ireland for the Olympics, don't you? That's a shame, hope it doesn't take from your enjoyment of the Olympics, but then again Rory was always going to disappoint one set of fans no matter which side he declared for.

Hope Santa brings you an atlas kiss
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Post by super_realist Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:35 am

Bet the Leprechaun love that Oirland is declared part of the British Isles.

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Post by Davie Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:33 am

Inco - that was one slip and I did indeed mean British Isles. Notice you didn't comment on all my other points though - couldn't find fault with those? Rolling Eyes

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Post by skiddy Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:52 pm

davie-
He didnt declare for the roi olympic team. The Irish olympic team represents the whole island of Ireland hense ni athletes get a choice between GB or Ireland. So what u said isnt correct at all.

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Post by Davie Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:05 pm

A rose by any other name, skiddy

I called it a RoI team - you call it an Ireland team. Fact is he declared for Ireland rather than GB&I

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Post by skiddy Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:21 pm

It was logical. He played for the ISLAND of Ireland as an amateur. Its accepted by everybody(even unionists) that NI athletes compete for the Island of Ireland in every sports except football. NI athletes generally dont even have to declare for Ireland because they represent the island of Ireland. It makes no sense for a ni athlete to declare for Britain unless they couldnt compete without declaring for Britain or representing Britain improves their chances of a medal.

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Post by super_realist Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:27 pm

skiddy wrote:It was logical. He played for the ISLAND of Ireland as an amateur. Its accepted by everybody(even unionists) that NI athletes compete for the Island of Ireland in every sports except football, golf, snooker, motor sport and undoubtedly others. NI athletes generally dont even have to declare for Ireland because they represent the island of Ireland. It makes no sense for a ni athlete to declare for Britain unless they couldnt compete without declaring for Britain or representing Britain improves their chances of a medal.

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:35 pm

I wish all the people who claim to be Irish would go and live there.

Must be a reason why they don't, but it always seemed a perfectly pleasant place to me.

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Post by skiddy Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:41 pm

In golf they do as amateurs, snooker and motorsport not olympic sports. Think I recall a ni motorsport winning some comp for Ireland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Carroll

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Post by super_realist Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:49 pm

Sorry, thought you meant EVERY sport except football was Oirland.

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Post by Shotrock Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:52 pm

Kwin - That's some statement ... do you wish that all people who claim to be English live in England, African live in Africa, German live in Germany?

VERY proud to be of Irish descent myself, and also delighted that I'm living in America and an American.

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Post by McLaren Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:58 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:I wish all the people who claim to be Irish would go and live there.

Must be a reason why they don't, but it always seemed a perfectly pleasant place to me.

So your position seems to be changing. You were incensed that I brought up the prospect of debating the best British golfer excluding Northern Ireland, and now you have made some odd sweeping statement about all the Irish going home.
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Post by super_realist Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:04 pm

That's clearly not what he said Mac. Stop trying to stir things in regards to your Socialist Worker agenda.

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:12 pm

Yes, well, not many people claim that many lines of lineage, but the Irish seem to be the exception; almost like flying a flag of ancestral convenience.

So, yes!, I DO mean that. And most who claim Oirish ancestry wouldn't live there if you paid them although, as I've said, it seems a perfectly pleasant place to make a home. Off to Offaly for you Rory, you can live next door to Shane's trough.

'Course, I may have Oirish ancestry meself, no idea where any of my grandparents were born. But certainly proud to be English, would be thrilled to be living in England or Wales.


Mac,
I couldn't care less what you were rabitting on about after your nonsensical post that Hull had the best golfing claim for SPOTY . . . . the rest was just a load of backpedalling, but your initial insult was what showed your true colours.

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Post by McLaren Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:36 pm

Kwini

At no point did I say she had the best golfing claim, all I stated was that she should have been one of the nominees.


Here is the original post;

"looks like someone will be missing from SPOTY

Teenager Charley Hull tops European Order of Merit in Dubai

Easily the most successful British golfer of the year"


So where is the insult and where did I say she was the best golfing candidate for SPOTY?

And what are my true colours?
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Post by super_realist Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:40 pm

Mac, you were aware that the nominee list was made LONG before Hull clinched said title weren't you?

What did you expect them to do? Take someone out? Add an 11th?

In any event, the womens European Order of Merit is extremely small potatoes, on a par with the second rate Darts or Bowls in the public perception. It got the two seconds it deserved.

Was Monty nominated for his 8?

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:44 pm

Yes, Mac, I was paraphrasing.

But the bottom line of your post was that "easily the most successful British golfer of the year" and "missing from SPOTY" was "teenager Charley Hull".

Clearly deliberately ignoring McIlroy's claims . . . . which you haplessly tried to back-track on later.


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Post by McLaren Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:53 pm

Kwini

Where did I say mcilroy should be missing from SPOTY?  I said Hull should have been included, and further at no point did I say at the exclusion of mcilroy.

And yes, i did ignore mcilroys claims as the best "british" golfer as it was made quite clear to you that brtish is used to mean the island of Britain in most common uses.

What part of me saying I will only watch golf if mcilroy is playing made you think I had something against him?

And agian, what are my true colours?
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Post by super_realist Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:57 pm

Taken your pedant and contrarian pills today Mac?

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Post by McLaren Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:01 pm

super_realist wrote:Taken your pedant and contrarian pills today Mac?

No, I just have no idea what point kwini is trying to make other than the make believe one where I had a go at the Irish. Which I clearly didn't, and even if I had it is odd that he has let every other anti irish comment go on this site. And he then goes and makes seem weird comment about those who think they are irish living in ireland.

Is kwini making any sense to anyone else because I don't get what he is playing at here and any explanations would be welcome?
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Post by Shotrock Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:31 pm

Kwin - Don't want to beat this dead horse (much!) but how on earth do you know that "most people who claim Irish ancestry would not live there if you paid them?"

(Pay me enough and I would even consider Wales!)

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Post by super_realist Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:35 pm

Sr, why is it Americans are so keen to identify themselves by their Irish (or Scottish if you're Canadian) heritage?

I don't get it.

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Post by Davie Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:36 pm

skiddy wrote:It was logical. He played for the ISLAND of Ireland as an amateur. Its accepted by everybody(even unionists) that NI athletes compete for the Island of Ireland in every sports except football. NI athletes generally dont even have to declare for Ireland because they represent the island of Ireland. It makes no sense for a ni athlete to declare for Britain unless they couldnt compete without declaring for Britain or representing Britain improves their chances of a medal.

Ever heard of Mary Peters?

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Post by Shotrock Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:50 pm

Super - Certainly can't speak for everyone, but I grew up in a community where most of my childhood friends' fathers were immigrants (including mine). So, if your family immigrated to the USA from, say, Italy, Ireland, Germany, Poland (most prevalent ancestry where I grew up) you naturally had customs and traditions (not to mention food) that was a big part of your family life. Kids would alway ask "so, what are you?" meaning, of course, your dominant ancestry. Of course we ALL knew we were Americans, and we all felt our food and customs were cooler - but now know only Italy truly has the best food Very Happy . This seems to become less important as generations assimilate.

Again, just my experience.

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Post by super_realist Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:53 pm

Fair enough, do you think in 200 years people will care so much?

Seems people over there search very hard for a tenuous link to "the old country" where over here, we barely give it a second thought, and in my own experience, I'd rather not have any sort of parochial heritage at all.

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Post by Shotrock Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:59 pm

I think it will always be important to more recent immigrants. My son's best friend is Filipino (parents both from there) and the language and customs are very evident in their household. I'm sure will become less so in their sons.

It's a big deal (to some) to trace your heritage ALL the way back to the Mayflower. Some of those people are seeking as much class "distinction" as possible. Of course, I am quick to point out the immigration laws were a whole lot looser back then!

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Post by pedro Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:08 pm

Shotrock wrote:you naturally had customs and traditions (not to mention food) that was a big part of your family life. .... and we all felt our food and customs were cooler.
Are you telling super you're a tatty muncher? Whistle

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Post by super_realist Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:15 pm

By distant heritage, I discovered I also have Tattie Muncher Leprechaun ancestors.

Not something I'd be keen on building a heritage on though.

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Post by incontinentia Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:23 pm

I long for the day when we Irish are judged by the content of our character and not the contents of our pantry
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Post by kwinigolfer Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:43 pm

So long as you are judged by your beer, your whiskey and your golf, plus the beauty of your country, you'll be in very good shape, inco.

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Post by skiddy Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:02 pm

how many get web.com cards from qualifier

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:22 pm

skiddy,
Skid down this link and you'll see all the permutations:

http://www.pgatour.com/webcom/news/2014/12/08/web-q-school-primer.html

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Post by skiddy Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:29 pm

Any idea how often are these 'periodic re-orders' are?

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:53 pm

Guessing about thre or four times during the year; sure it's there somewhere if you drill down. But Power looking good; hopefully Eason & Jaeger too.

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Post by incontinentia Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:33 am

kwinigolfer wrote:So long as you are judged by your beer, your whiskey and your golf, plus the beauty of your country, you'll be in very good shape, inco.
Good call kwini OK don't think the landscape is anything special though, except for parts of the west coast.

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Post by robopz Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:00 pm

Whew... Torrence torches Faldo over Sir "A-holes" Ryder Cup worthless Sergio remarks...

http://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/sam-torrance-tears-into-faldo

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:21 pm

One poor TV commentator (but great Ryder Cupper) slagging off a prima donna commentator.

Wonder how long Faldo can survive in the CBS booth?
He gets a largely poor press, the players don't seem to think much of him, and he's not entertaining in any way, least of all in telling stories about his career and the golfers he sparred with. It's either "Seve this" or Seve that", with an occasional Jack Nicklouse thrown in. Or nothing.


Brad Fritsch running away from the web.com Q-School field, but some Europeans up there with a very good chance of earning varying degrees of status, Seamus Power especially, wioth Stephen Jaeger and Eason close behind. One or two others further down the list should still earn some starts including another Englishman I know nothing about, Kelvin Day who apparently played College Golf at the College of Charleston. (Toured there a few years ago, lovely City-Center campus, but miles away from the Golf courses.)


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Post by Davie Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:38 pm

I'm obviously in a minority - I'd rather listen to Faldo every day than Torrance

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Post by pedro Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:39 pm

Now here's something else to listen to. The new Eminem?

http://www.pgatour.com/tourreport/2014/12/16/tis-the-season-bubbaclaus.html

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Post by pedro Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:49 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:
Wonder how long Faldo can survive in the CBS booth?
He gets a largely poor press, the players don't seem to think much of him, and he's not entertaining in any way, least of all in telling stories about his career and the golfers he sparred with. It's either "Seve this" or Seve that", with an occasional Jack Nicklouse thrown in. Or nothing.
Bottom line: he's useless.. laughing

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Post by robopz Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:53 am

pedro wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:
Wonder how long Faldo can survive in the CBS booth?
He gets a largely poor press, the players don't seem to think much of him, and he's not entertaining in any way, least of all in telling stories about his career and the golfers he sparred with. It's either "Seve this" or Seve that", with an occasional Jack Nicklouse thrown in. Or nothing.
Bottom line: he's useless.. laughing
Somebody must like him... or I doubt he'd still be on the air. Dontcha think CBS tests their audience? Sure they do...

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:12 am

pedro wrote:Now here's something else to listen to. The new Eminem?

http://www.pgatour.com/tourreport/2014/12/16/tis-the-season-bubbaclaus.html
Err, no. That's truly awful isn't it?
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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:13 am

robopz wrote:
pedro wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:
Wonder how long Faldo can survive in the CBS booth?
He gets a largely poor press, the players don't seem to think much of him, and he's not entertaining in any way, least of all in telling stories about his career and the golfers he sparred with. It's either "Seve this" or Seve that", with an occasional Jack Nicklouse thrown in. Or nothing.
Bottom line: he's useless.. laughing
Somebody must like him... or I doubt he'd still be on the air. Dontcha think CBS tests their audience?  Sure they do...
Never liked Faldo. Appreciated his playing ability but always thought he was a self-centred dolt. Ironically though, having not heard a lot from him in recent years, I thought he was actually very good at this year's Open.
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