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Post by JAS Fri 05 Dec 2014, 6:57 pm

Floating this out there as there's a big debate going on at our Club at the moment.

We're based at a Muni so greens fees (and season tickets) are paid to the Golf Complex. The Club is a separate entity.

Many of our Seniors have 5 day membership of the Club and 5 Day season tickets at the Complex (as they are retired they can and do play during the week to take advantage of the reduced price season ticket).

In terms of the Club the price for full membership is £85 (which includes a £15 affiliation fee to the County which in turn includes an affiliation to England Golf). Seniors (5 day membership) is £50 (which also includes the same affiliation fee of £15 to the County).

There have been moves to scrap the 5 day golf Club membership because some feel that the Seniors use the services of the Club at least as much, if not more than the full members (handicap administration, general administration etc). The Seniors are vehemently opposed to such a move (an extra £35 a year) and battle lines have been drawn. It's not exactly pistols at dawn stuff but it's incredible how much wrath pensioners can have :-p

If the debate escalates much further, theres a real chance of a breakaway...wtf!!!

How does your Senior section operate? Especially interested in anyone in a similarly structured set up (club and golf course as separate entities)

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Post by super_realist Fri 05 Dec 2014, 7:07 pm

JAS, there was similar fury when many Links Ticket holders whined about the Castle Course adding £20 to their annual tickets.


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Post by JAS Fri 05 Dec 2014, 8:15 pm

super_realist wrote:JAS, there was similar fury when many Links Ticket holders whined about the Castle Course adding £20 to their annual tickets.


I find it incredible how people can get so wound up over such small amounts. I'd love to play the Castle course once for £20!!

The thing is if many of our Seniors take the huff and go they won't find any decent golf in the area as remotely cheap as they currently get it.

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Post by George1507 Sat 06 Dec 2014, 12:41 pm

£85 per annum subscription? I guess they have to pay a green fee every time they play as well? By the time you knock off the £15 national and county levy, I can't imagine what anyone is complaining about - unless the green fees are high and going up.

The usual set up is that members don't pay green fees though. Years ago, clubs used to offer discounted subs for OAPs, but harder financial times, the preponderance of older members and legislative changes have meant many clubs have abandoned this. Older people pay the same as younger ones by and large. Even in clubs where there is still a differential, there's a lot of pressure to change it. A lot of clubs have abandoned honorary memberships too.

The perception about older members is that they play a lot, clog up the course when working people want to play, and moan a lot. On the other hand, at least some of them will have been members for 20+ years, so are the ones who have supported the club through thin times - and paid the full subscription for a lot of years.

Unless the £35 is the thin end of a wedge that will cost them a load more money, I'd say there's unlikely to be any real resistance to a £35 hike. That's about £0.70 a week. Call a meeting and force the issue.

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Post by super_realist Sat 06 Dec 2014, 1:08 pm

Balotelli comes to mind.

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Post by LadyPutt Mon 08 Dec 2014, 12:20 pm

You don't say how much the season ticket costs but I reckon that £85 subscription on top of that, for some pensioners (especially in these times of ridiculously low interest rates when their savings are hardly earning anything) would be a step too far. Why can't your younger members, who no doubt earn a decent wage, be more magnanimous? And older members do not clog up the course when working people want to play because most seniors do not play at weekends - hence the 5-day ticket (unless the "working people" have such cushy jobs that they can play during the week as well as weekends).
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Post by 1GrumpyGolfer Mon 08 Dec 2014, 2:22 pm

Split the difference somehow? If you're scrapping 5 day memberships can't you offer a discount to seniors on the annual membership fee? For example: up the seniors' price by 20 quid, tenner for each extra day they get, anyone else on 5 day membership would pay the 35 quid increase to full membership.

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Post by JAS Mon 08 Dec 2014, 4:06 pm

Ladyputt & George - The green fees are £52 per month for 7 day & £40 per month for 5 day.
Actually Ladyputt the proposal came from the Treasurer who qualifies as a Senior but is a 7 day member.
The average 5 day member plays more than the average 7 day member, theree are more comps for 5 day members during the week than there are for 7 day members at weekends (they therefore use the services of the Secretary and Masterscoreboard more than the 7 day members). Neither the County nor England golf offer a reduced affiliation fee for either Senior or 5 day members so why should the Club? The Seniors quite happily pay £1.50 every time they enter a weekday Comp which goes into their own prize fund, so an effective 70p a week increase shouldn't hurt them too much.

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Post by George1507 Mon 08 Dec 2014, 4:36 pm

A five day membership of the club? Does that mean they can't go in the clubhouse on Saturdays and Sundays? I appreciate they won't be playing golf but they aren't allowed to buy beers and food either?

That seems a bit strange. Most clubs are very happy when any member buys food and beer. I'd advocate doing away with the five day membership and maybe - as Grumpy suggested - offer a compromise somehow.


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Post by JAS Tue 09 Dec 2014, 12:23 am

The Clubhouse, is part of the Complex, nothing to do with the Club, we are effectively tenants for want of a better description, 5 day members can of course use all the facilities at weekends but if they wanted to play at weekends then the Complex would charge an additional green fee.
Yep I see it as an anomaly that causes division between the Senior Section and the rest of the Club, strangely enough the Seniors don't see it that way. The modified (compromise) proposal is that the gap is closed gradually, starting with £10 extra next year...Hell hath no fury like a Senior asked for an extra £10!!!
They're insisting that it should be written into the Constitution that the 5 day membership should never be more than 5/7ths of the 7 day membership. Of course there are 2 counters to that i.e. Ok then 5 day members are only allowed to have 5/7ths as many Competitions as 7 day members OR Introduce a 2 day membership for people who work during the week and they only pay 2/7ths of the 7 day membership. In the latter instance the 7 day membership would drop dramatically and the subsequent plummet in income would mean the 5 day membership price would rise significantly.
We have a Mgt Committee meeting Thurs (last one before the AGM - where the budget gets voted on), I'm guessing it'll be a fraught one!!

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Post by LadyPutt Wed 10 Dec 2014, 3:00 pm

As someone who has to work for a living, I have always advocated a two-day membership for weekends only but have been roundly shouted down. But then, of course, "ladies" (who are supposed to play in competitions on their own day during the week) don't work, do they?????? They all have wealthy husbands!
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Post by McLaren Wed 10 Dec 2014, 3:31 pm

LadyPutt wrote:As someone who has to work for a living, I have always advocated a two-day membership for weekends only but have been roundly shouted down. But then, of course, "ladies" (who are supposed to play in competitions on their own day during the week) don't work, do they?????? They all have wealthy husbands!

Good point. Does anyone know why most women's sections are not having competitions moved to weekends?
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Post by super_realist Wed 10 Dec 2014, 3:51 pm

Women medals tend to be be quicker than the mens medals in my experience.

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Post by MustPuttBetter Wed 10 Dec 2014, 4:16 pm

super_realist wrote:Women medals tend to be be quicker than the mens medals in my experience.

Ha!! Not at my club!
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Post by SmithersJones Wed 10 Dec 2014, 7:49 pm

I don't understand why a club separate from its course in terms of ownership and payment of green fees would ever have needed anything other than a single membership type. Either you're a member or you're not, and if you are then when you play is between you and the council, surely?
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Post by incontinentia Thu 11 Dec 2014, 11:04 am

super_realist wrote:Women medals tend to be be quicker than the mens medals in my experience.
Bet they don't throw them in the bin either Run
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Post by super_realist Thu 11 Dec 2014, 11:35 am

Only trophy I've ever kept was a hip flask. It's actually useful.

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Post by BlueCoverman Fri 12 Dec 2014, 8:43 am

So its ok to use alcohol on the golf course for a bit of sustenance super, but not a bacon sandwich? Wink

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Post by super_realist Fri 12 Dec 2014, 9:04 am

Never used it on the course Blue. Ski trips etc is when it gets wheeled out.

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Post by BlueCoverman Fri 12 Dec 2014, 9:19 am

Fair enough thumbsup

Where are you skiing this season?

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Post by super_realist Fri 12 Dec 2014, 9:22 am

St Anton at end of Jan for a week. A week's never enough is it?

Hopefully better snow than last year.

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Post by BlueCoverman Fri 12 Dec 2014, 11:59 am

Very nice, although ten days/two weeks would be better I agree!

Hopefully it will be, have a good one

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 12 Dec 2014, 1:07 pm

super_realist wrote:St Anton at end of Jan for a week. A week's never enough is it?

Hopefully better snow than last year.
What're the chances of oil drilling or fracking getting started in the Alps etc? Smile
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Post by McLaren Fri 12 Dec 2014, 2:16 pm

Super

I thought you were a teetotaler?
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Post by incontinentia Fri 12 Dec 2014, 3:10 pm

Is it dangerous to drink and ski?
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Post by Doon the Water Mon 15 Dec 2014, 10:08 am

Hi Jazz.
I would call their bluff.
They have every right to start a new club but they then need to embrace the costs that it entails.
They would not be able to use the club name, trophies or computer /admin facilities. That cost alone would be far greater than than the small amount of money it would cost them to be equals.

I had a similar problem in the 1990's when the club membership exceeded 1000.
Some committee members wished to restrict membership and impose quite a severe [pro rata] entrance fee.
I told them that if they did that I would encourage a new club to start and the new club would have to share the reserved tee times with the current club. Soon popped that balloon.

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Post by super_realist Mon 15 Dec 2014, 10:09 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:St Anton at end of Jan for a week. A week's never enough is it?

Hopefully better snow than last year.
What're the chances of oil drilling or fracking getting started in the Alps etc? Smile

Actually Navy, there has been seismic surveys done and certain parts are gas prone.

Mac, what made you think I was tee total?

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Post by JAS Mon 15 Dec 2014, 10:56 am

Doon the Water wrote:Hi Jazz.
I would call their bluff.
They have every right to start a new club but they then need to embrace the costs that it entails.
They would not be able to use the club name, trophies or computer /admin facilities. That cost alone would be far greater than than the small amount of money it would cost them to be equals.

I had a similar problem in the 1990's when the club membership exceeded 1000.
Some committee members wished to restrict membership and impose quite a severe [pro rata] entrance fee.
I told them that if they did that I would encourage a new club to start and the new club would have to share the reserved tee times with the current club. Soon popped that balloon.

Well hello Doon, long time no hear. I hope you're keeping well. We've gone for a token increase in the coming year and a working party to be set up to look at club structure.

Was the 5 day membership always there? I agree, Just seems a bit crazy to me because club membership is essentially all about paying for the things you mention and nothing to do with green fees (which is where the 5 day members of the Complex can and do get a saving). All the other stuff that the Club does and incurs cost on is basically the same for 5 & 7 day members.

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Post by McLaren Mon 15 Dec 2014, 12:53 pm

Super

You just seem like the the teetotalling type.
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Post by Doon the Water Mon 05 Jan 2015, 7:51 pm

Hi Jazz, keeping well, retired from golf this year and taken up lawn bowls!

In my time the seniors section was mainly 5 day members. Tied in with reduced season ticket.
Seniors whom wanted to play in main club events had to pay for a 7 day full season ticket, quite a few did that.
The Seniors always wanted something for nothing and expected the main club to fund their numerous league matches and meals.

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Post by gaelgowfer Thu 08 Jan 2015, 2:35 pm

LadyPutt wrote:As someone who has to work for a living, I have always advocated a two-day membership for weekends only but have been roundly shouted down. But then, of course, "ladies" (who are supposed to play in competitions on their own day during the week) don't work, do they?????? They all have wealthy husbands!

Ladyputt,  My club has a midweek evening draw to accommodate  Rolling Eyes  'the workers'.  Nairn has been equal since 1979 and whilst I would love to have played my 'trophied' events on a weekend morning (to accommodate my needs as the mother of young children), I discovered that 'the workers' preferred to play on a midweek evening in order to avoid the morning ladies'!

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