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Cardiff Blues Season Thread 3 - Danny Wilson Appointed Head Coach

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Post by wales606 Sun 01 Feb 2015, 5:07 pm

First topic message reminder :

Prop
Gethin Jenkins, Taufa'ao Filise, Craig Mitchell, Sam Hobbs, Scott Andrews, Thomas Davies, Dillon Lewis

Hooker
Matthew Rees, Kristian Dacey, Rhys Williams, Ethan Lewis

2nd Row
Jarrad Hoeata, James Down, Lou Reed, Chris Dicomidis, Miles Normandale

Flanker
Sam Warburton, Josh Turnbull, Macauley Cook, Ellis Jenkins, Josh Navidi, Jevon Groves, Ben Roach

Eight
Manoa Vosawai

Scrum half
Tavis Knoyle, Lloyd Williams, Lewis Jones, Tomos Williams

Fly half
Rhys Patchell, Gareth Anscombe, Gareth Davies, Jarrod Evans, Will Thomas

Centre
Cory Allen, Gavin Evans, Richard Smith, Tom Pascoe, Adam Thomas, Garyn Smith, Ray Lee-Lo

Wing
Alex Cuthbert, Harry Davies, Owen Jenkins, Chris Knight, Tom Williams, Tom James

Full back
Blaine Scully, Dan Fish, Geraint Walsh, Aled Summerhill


Last edited by wales606 on Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:16 pm; edited 6 times in total
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Post by Cardiff Dave Sun 13 Dec 2015, 8:52 pm

Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:This probably explains why this game held in Wales largest city drew such a poor crowd.

Speaks volumes.
Lots of work to do by the suits imo.

And the fans. Let's not forget them.

The existing fans are already fans though. Like you, like me, like others on this here board. The suits need to pull their fingers out and smell the coffee for once.

Not sure what more they can do to be honest. In the case of the Blues: returned to the ancestral home, smack bang in the city centre in a very big urban population, in a country that likes rugby, good smattering of international 'famous' players, offer discounted tickets (and sometimes free), seem to do a fair amount of marketing around Cardiff (billboards, radio), etc. What else can they do apart from just open the gates and let everyone in free?! Even then I reckon the crowd would still be fairly low. Not meant as a dig. Is it just results and success? How much better was it back in the good old days?

Being "honest" about who's who and what's what for a fecking change would be a start.
The bloos opened the gates at CCS btw. Didn't work. How to attract those that walked prior to 2003 would be my target.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Sun 13 Dec 2015, 9:13 pm

Griff wrote:Just to add: same down at Rodney Parade too, just a bit harder IMO (smaller population, less star attractions, less money behind us, etc.) which is why I was saying previously that if the Blues are finding it hard to succeed on and off the pitch then we're all (in Wales) going to struggle.

Again, not a dig. We're ALL in a cauldron of sh*t and are struggling to climb out.

D'you mean Regionalism?

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Post by Guest Sun 13 Dec 2015, 10:19 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Griff wrote:Just to add: same down at Rodney Parade too, just a bit harder IMO (smaller population, less star attractions, less money behind us, etc.) which is why I was saying previously that if the Blues are finding it hard to succeed on and off the pitch then we're all (in Wales) going to struggle.

Again, not a dig. We're ALL in a cauldron of sh*t and are struggling to climb out.

D'you mean Regionalism?

No. Just mean that we're ALL in the same boat attendance wise and on the pitch, to a varying degree. But all finding it tough.

But on the regional thing, just calling your lot Cardiff RFC instead of Blues (I assume that's what you're alluding to) won't mean the punters start running for the Arms Park waving £20 notes and screaming to get in. It won't mean Dan Carter wants to play for you either. You mention earlier that the diehards are already there. It's the occasional fan we want to encourage, but they probably wouldn't know the Blues from Cardiff RFC any way, so where are they? Same at Rodney Parade - scrapping Newport RFC in the Welsh Prem and elevating them to take Gwent Dragons role as the pro club in that area will not solve the problems. Why would it?

Attendances in regions are similar now as they were pre-2003, give or take. Yes, you'll be able to find some matches that prove my point wrong. But you'll also find regional matches that eclipse the club game (Blues HC semi at the MS for example). Unfortunately I'm convinced thay the only way forward now in terms of competing with those lot abroad is billionaire backers. Millionaires won't cut it any more Sad

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Post by Stone Motif Sun 13 Dec 2015, 11:03 pm

Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Griff wrote:Just to add: same down at Rodney Parade too, just a bit harder IMO (smaller population, less star attractions, less money behind us, etc.) which is why I was saying previously that if the Blues are finding it hard to succeed on and off the pitch then we're all (in Wales) going to struggle.

Again, not a dig. We're ALL in a cauldron of sh*t and are struggling to climb out.

D'you mean Regionalism?

No.  Just mean that we're ALL in the same boat attendance wise and on the pitch, to a varying degree. But all finding it tough.

But on the regional thing, just calling your lot Cardiff RFC instead of Blues (I assume that's what you're alluding to) won't mean the punters start running for the Arms Park waving £20 notes and screaming to get in. It won't mean Dan Carter wants to play for you either. You mention earlier that the diehards are already there. It's the occasional fan we want to encourage, but they probably wouldn't know the Blues from Cardiff RFC any way, so where are they? Same at Rodney Parade - scrapping Newport RFC in the Welsh Prem and elevating them to take Gwent Dragons role as the pro club in that area will not solve the problems. Why would it?

Attendances in regions are similar now as they were pre-2003, give or take. Yes, you'll be able to find some matches that prove my point wrong. But you'll also find regional matches that eclipse the club game (Blues HC semi at the MS for example). Unfortunately I'm convinced thay the only way forward now in terms of competing with those lot abroad is billionaire backers. Millionaires won't cut it any more Sad

The only way forward is to ensure we are part of a bigger marketplace. Returning to clubs is worth a feck of a lot if it moves us any closer to a place in the English pyramid. Attendances alone don't mean zip anymore.
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Post by GavinDragon Mon 14 Dec 2015, 6:26 am

How would a return to clubs make us any closer to joining the English pyramid?

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Post by Stone Motif Mon 14 Dec 2015, 9:05 am

GavinDragon wrote:How would a return to clubs make us any closer to joining the English pyramid?

Because the English system is club based, maybe?

Two fingers up to the union as well, show the guys over the border we're ready to do business not just Warren Gatland's bitches.
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Post by GavinDragon Mon 14 Dec 2015, 9:47 am

Oh so because the PRW teams sometimes use language relating to the regions they represent (or not) then the AP wouldn't consider us, gotcha.

Nothing to do with the fact that we offer little commercially to their league.

Not saying a BI league is not what I would like to see, just laughing at how you use it to advocate a return to your beloved Newport RFC.


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Post by Stone Motif Mon 14 Dec 2015, 12:37 pm

GavinDragon wrote:Oh so because the PRW teams sometimes use language relating to the regions they represent (or not) then the AP wouldn't consider us, gotcha.

Nothing to do with the fact that we offer little commercially to their league.

Not saying a BI league is not what I would like to see, just laughing at how you use it to advocate a return to your beloved Newport RFC.


Spectacularly missing the point as it doesn't fit your narrative, there's a surprise. Closing wih a particularly daft logic leap, even for you. I'll give you five to try again if you want?
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Post by GavinDragon Mon 14 Dec 2015, 12:58 pm

No its OK I will let you explain it for me.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 14 Dec 2015, 5:15 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:How would a return to clubs make us any closer to joining the English pyramid?

Because the English system is club based, maybe?

Two fingers up to the union as well, show the guys over the border we're ready to do business not just Warren Gatland's bitches.

Hands down one of the dumbest things I've read on the club forum.

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Post by Stone Motif Tue 15 Dec 2015, 9:24 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:How would a return to clubs make us any closer to joining the English pyramid?

Because the English system is club based, maybe?

Two fingers up to the union as well, show the guys over the border we're ready to do business not just Warren Gatland's bitches.

Hands down one of the dumbest things I've read on the club forum.

Except it isn't is it? Warren G just sold our only proven international to Bath after all.
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Tue 15 Dec 2015, 9:28 am

Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:How would a return to clubs make us any closer to joining the English pyramid?

Because the English system is club based, maybe?

Two fingers up to the union as well, show the guys over the border we're ready to do business not just Warren Gatland's bitches.

Hands down one of the dumbest things I've read on the club forum.

Except it isn't is it? Warren G just sold our only proven international to Bath after all.

How exactly? Didn't Gatland actually stop you from selling your only proven international to Bath, and then also try to keep him at the Dragons through a NDC?
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Post by GavinDragon Tue 15 Dec 2015, 9:29 am

Forget that, I think MD (and correct me if I am wrong) was referring to Stone's implication that because the english system is club based, a return to clubs in Wales (if you actually think we don't have that already) will make us joining the AP more likely/easier

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Post by Coleman Tue 15 Dec 2015, 10:07 am

So we've lost Patch to the Scarlets. Shame to see him go but best of luck to him. 

Good news is we've resigned Ellis Jenkins. We are loaded at 6 & 7. Just need another No.8 to cover or start for Vos, although Warbs can play there. Be a right laugh to see Navidi, Jenkins and Warbs all start a game.

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Post by GavinDragon Tue 15 Dec 2015, 10:14 am

How is your NWQ quote looking? Because pickings are slim for welsh qualified, unless you make an attempt to bring moriarty back, but do you see him as an 8?

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Post by Coleman Tue 15 Dec 2015, 10:23 am

We've got 7 or 6. I'm never sure if Dico counts as NWQ or not. Filise must be calling it a day at the end of this season. So next year we'll be down to 5 or 6. No idea what the cap is any more if i'm honest or if there even is one. If i'm honest i'm not blown away by any of our NWQ players other than Filise. Hoeata hasn't been the player we'd hoped. Dolan and Scully are yet to really have a run of games. Vos has been hit and miss and Lee-Lo is still finding his feet i think. But he's ouside Gavin Evans so i'll again reserve judgement.

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Post by GavinDragon Tue 15 Dec 2015, 10:28 am

Well I suppose if there is NWQ space you could go and pick up a gem from the SH

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Tue 15 Dec 2015, 11:26 am

GavinDragon wrote:Well I suppose if there is NWQ space you could go and pick up a gem from the SH

Hasn't the Pieman said that there will be 6 big signings this season? I would assume some of the worse NWQs like Hoeatta will be let go, to make addition NWQ space for high quality (or assumed higher quality at least) players from overseas.
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Post by Stone Motif Tue 15 Dec 2015, 11:37 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:How would a return to clubs make us any closer to joining the English pyramid?

Because the English system is club based, maybe?

Two fingers up to the union as well, show the guys over the border we're ready to do business not just Warren Gatland's bitches.

Hands down one of the dumbest things I've read on the club forum.

Except it isn't is it? Warren G just sold our only proven international to Bath after all.

How exactly?  Didn't Gatland actually stop you from selling your only proven international to Bath, and then also try to keep him at the Dragons through a NDC?

See well documented hissy-fit when he withdrew the original NDC and the refusal to stump up the additional £25k that would have kept him, apparently, the second time around. That he has the degree of influence you indicate alone is damping enough surely.
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Post by Stone Motif Tue 15 Dec 2015, 11:40 am

GavinDragon wrote:Forget that, I think MD (and correct me if I am wrong) was referring to Stone's implication that because the english system is club based, a return to clubs in Wales (if you actually think we don't have that already) will make us joining the AP more likely/easier

I'm pretty certain Nicki Minaj knows more about rugby than MD.

How many regional sides in the Aviva/championship Gav? They've been mooted....
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Post by GavinDragon Tue 15 Dec 2015, 11:43 am

How about you explain why our pro sides (as they are now called remember PRW - much to my annoyance) would be more likely to be accepted into the AP if they were just Newport RFC, Cardiff RFC, Llanelli RFC, Swansea (??) RFC as opposed to what they are called now.

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Post by Stone Motif Tue 15 Dec 2015, 12:40 pm

GavinDragon wrote:How about you explain why our pro sides (as they are now called remember PRW - much to my annoyance) would be more likely to be accepted into the AP if they were just Newport RFC, Cardiff RFC, Llanelli RFC, Swansea (??) RFC as opposed to what they are called now.

Less problematic as mirrors current English structure.
Less union interference.
Less baggage that detracts from the core business of running a pro rugby team.
Traditional sides that are known to rugby fans across border.
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Post by GavinDragon Tue 15 Dec 2015, 12:45 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:How about you explain why our pro sides (as they are now called remember PRW - much to my annoyance) would be more likely to be accepted into the AP if they were just Newport RFC, Cardiff RFC, Llanelli RFC, Swansea (??) RFC as opposed to what they are called now.

Less problematic as mirrors current English structure. - Irrelevant, and it being problematic is your opinion only.
Less union interference - potentially, but it would require that each club generate more revenue to bridge the gap in union funding
Less baggage that detracts from the core business of running a pro rugby team - again it is your opinion that there is baggage
Traditional sides that are known to rugby fans across border - a fair point, but I don't think the PRL will care what the sides are called if I am honest, they only care about what a side brings, and lets be honest, Welsh domestic sides bring very little to the table

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Post by Stone Motif Tue 15 Dec 2015, 12:54 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:How about you explain why our pro sides (as they are now called remember PRW - much to my annoyance) would be more likely to be accepted into the AP if they were just Newport RFC, Cardiff RFC, Llanelli RFC, Swansea (??) RFC as opposed to what they are called now.

Less problematic as mirrors current English structure. - Irrelevant, and it being problematic is your opinion only.
Less union interference - potentially, but it would require that each club generate more revenue to bridge the gap in union funding
Less baggage that detracts from the core business of running a pro rugby team - again it is your opinion that there is baggage
Traditional sides that are known to rugby fans across border - a fair point, but I don't think the PRL will care what the sides are called if I am honest, they only care about what a side brings, and lets be honest, Welsh domestic sides bring very little to the table

You're giving Mikey a run for his money now. Do you genuinely think there would be no repurcussions for English should should a 'regional' team win a hypothetical British league? Do you genuinely not think that donating a quarter of a million in player wages to a former rival in the name of a subjective and never defined urge to be a 'region does not have an impact on the running of a pro rugby team? You should have Pinkies job if you do, fair play.
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Post by GavinDragon Tue 15 Dec 2015, 1:09 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:How about you explain why our pro sides (as they are now called remember PRW - much to my annoyance) would be more likely to be accepted into the AP if they were just Newport RFC, Cardiff RFC, Llanelli RFC, Swansea (??) RFC as opposed to what they are called now.

Less problematic as mirrors current English structure. - Irrelevant, and it being problematic is your opinion only.
Less union interference - potentially, but it would require that each club generate more revenue to bridge the gap in union funding
Less baggage that detracts from the core business of running a pro rugby team - again it is your opinion that there is baggage
Traditional sides that are known to rugby fans across border - a fair point, but I don't think the PRL will care what the sides are called if I am honest, they only care about what a side brings, and lets be honest, Welsh domestic sides bring very little to the table

You're giving Mikey a run for his money now. Do you genuinely think there would be no repurcussions for English should should a 'regional' team win a hypothetical British league? Do you genuinely not think that donating a quarter of a million in player wages to a former rival in the name of a subjective and never defined urge to be a 'region does not have an impact on the running of a pro rugby team?  You should have Pinkies job if you do, fair play.

Laugh

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 15 Dec 2015, 2:41 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:How would a return to clubs make us any closer to joining the English pyramid?

Because the English system is club based, maybe?

Two fingers up to the union as well, show the guys over the border we're ready to do business not just Warren Gatland's bitches.

Hands down one of the dumbest things I've read on the club forum.

Except it isn't is it? Warren G just sold our only proven international to Bath after all.

Your original comments seem to indicate you don't really understand how rugby is operated in Europe. Why you're expanding onto Faletau now I don't know.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 15 Dec 2015, 2:42 pm

GavinDragon wrote:Forget that, I think MD (and correct me if I am wrong) was referring to Stone's implication that because the english system is club based, a return to clubs in Wales (if you actually think we don't have that already) will make us joining the AP more likely/easier

Correct already.

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Post by Stone Motif Tue 15 Dec 2015, 4:23 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:How about you explain why our pro sides (as they are now called remember PRW - much to my annoyance) would be more likely to be accepted into the AP if they were just Newport RFC, Cardiff RFC, Llanelli RFC, Swansea (??) RFC as opposed to what they are called now.

Less problematic as mirrors current English structure. - Irrelevant, and it being problematic is your opinion only.
Less union interference - potentially, but it would require that each club generate more revenue to bridge the gap in union funding
Less baggage that detracts from the core business of running a pro rugby team - again it is your opinion that there is baggage
Traditional sides that are known to rugby fans across border - a fair point, but I don't think the PRL will care what the sides are called if I am honest, they only care about what a side brings, and lets be honest, Welsh domestic sides bring very little to the table

You're giving Mikey a run for his money now. Do you genuinely think there would be no repurcussions for English should should a 'regional' team win a hypothetical British league? Do you genuinely not think that donating a quarter of a million in player wages to a former rival in the name of a subjective and never defined urge to be a 'region does not have an impact on the running of a pro rugby team?  You should have Pinkies job if you do, fair play.

Laugh

Go on then, explain to me how any discussion/negotiation around Welsh pro teams joining the English structure not hypothetical?
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Post by Stone Motif Tue 15 Dec 2015, 4:25 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:How would a return to clubs make us any closer to joining the English pyramid?

Because the English system is club based, maybe?

Two fingers up to the union as well, show the guys over the border we're ready to do business not just Warren Gatland's bitches.

Hands down one of the dumbest things I've read on the club forum.

Except it isn't is it? Warren G just sold our only proven international to Bath after all.

Your original comments seem to indicate you don't really understand how rugby is operated in Europe. Why you're expanding onto Faletau now I don't know.

Eh? How's that then? By all means use quotations to justify what you've written, like.
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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 15 Dec 2015, 5:01 pm

GavinDragon is doing it, it would be a waste of my time to just reiterate everything he says. For now I believe he's spot on, but if I see anything worth flagging up I will comment.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Tue 15 Dec 2015, 5:21 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:Well I suppose if there is NWQ space you could go and pick up a gem from the SH

Hasn't the Pieman said that there will be 6 big signings this season?  I would assume some of the worse NWQs like Hoeatta will be let go, to make addition NWQ space for high quality (or assumed higher quality at least) players from overseas.

I'm sure he says the same every season mun.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Tue 15 Dec 2015, 6:01 pm

Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
Griff wrote:Just to add: same down at Rodney Parade too, just a bit harder IMO (smaller population, less star attractions, less money behind us, etc.) which is why I was saying previously that if the Blues are finding it hard to succeed on and off the pitch then we're all (in Wales) going to struggle.

Again, not a dig. We're ALL in a cauldron of sh*t and are struggling to climb out.

D'you mean Regionalism?

No.  Just mean that we're ALL in the same boat attendance wise and on the pitch, to a varying degree. But all finding it tough.

But on the regional thing, just calling your lot Cardiff RFC instead of Blues (I assume that's what you're alluding to) won't mean the punters start running for the Arms Park waving £20 notes and screaming to get in. It won't mean Dan Carter wants to play for you either. You mention earlier that the diehards are already there. It's the occasional fan we want to encourage, but they probably wouldn't know the Blues from Cardiff RFC any way, so where are they? Same at Rodney Parade - scrapping Newport RFC in the Welsh Prem and elevating them to take Gwent Dragons role as the pro club in that area will not solve the problems. Why would it?

Attendances in regions are similar now as they were pre-2003, give or take. Yes, you'll be able to find some matches that prove my point wrong. But you'll also find regional matches that eclipse the club game (Blues HC semi at the MS for example). Unfortunately I'm convinced thay the only way forward now in terms of competing with those lot abroad is billionaire backers. Millionaires won't cut it any more Sad

I don't use that word. It's a silly word.


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Post by Cardiff Dave Tue 15 Dec 2015, 6:46 pm

GavinDragon wrote:How about you explain why our pro sides (as they are now called remember PRW - much to my annoyance) would be more likely to be accepted into the AP if they were just Newport RFC, Cardiff RFC, Llanelli RFC, Swansea (??) RFC as opposed to what they are called now.

Puzzles me as to why you are annoyed. Headscratch

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Post by Stone Motif Tue 15 Dec 2015, 7:51 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:GavinDragon is doing it, it would be a waste of my time to just reiterate everything he says. For now I believe he's spot on, but if I see anything worth flagging up I will comment.

It would indeed be a waste of time.

GavinDragon wrote: ah....um....regions are ace...what do you mean why...just because... um mm. ...I've got a secret shrine to the Ospreys where I worship at the altar of entitlement.....etc etc
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Post by GavinDragon Wed 16 Dec 2015, 7:25 am

Haha entitlement - don't you see the irony? You point at, laugh at and criticise ponty fans for this sense of entitlement to be represented despite them not being able to afford pro rugby, and then fail to realise that you also have the very same sense of entitlement as a Newport fan.

The only difference between you and Steffan is that your club had Tony Brown - be grateful that he was, that pro rugby is on your doorstep and your club's history/heritage is still very much represented by the NGD name.

And I do admire the Ospreys for how well they market themselves - and I love how all the old club fans hate their 'one true region' slogan. It shows how inclusive and clever branding can be a success and it undermines the argument for a return to clubs with all this "heritage" to trade on.


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Post by GavinDragon Wed 16 Dec 2015, 7:26 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:How about you explain why our pro sides (as they are now called remember PRW - much to my annoyance) would be more likely to be accepted into the AP if they were just Newport RFC, Cardiff RFC, Llanelli RFC, Swansea (??) RFC as opposed to what they are called now.

Puzzles me as to why you are annoyed. Headscratch

Because people use that to justify a move away from regions

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Post by Stone Motif Wed 16 Dec 2015, 8:40 am

GavinDragon wrote:Haha entitlement - don't you see the irony? You point at, laugh at and criticise ponty fans for this sense of entitlement to be represented despite them not being able to afford pro rugby, and then fail to realise that you also have the very same sense of entitlement as a Newport fan.

The only difference between you and Steffan is that your club had Tony Brown - be grateful that he was, that pro rugby is on your doorstep and your club's history/heritage is still very much represented by the NGD name.

And I do admire the Ospreys for how well they market themselves - and I love how all the old club fans hate their 'one true region' slogan. It shows how inclusive and clever branding can be a success and it undermines the argument for a return to clubs with all this "heritage" to trade on.


You need to look up irony in the dictionary.

Newport RFC were able to attract the necessary financial backing to remain a pro entity, and from thence carry an abortive partnership over the last ten plus years for little thanks and no reward. That is almost the exactly the same circumstances as Pontypridd, only they couldn't attract the necessary cash. That isn't entitlement that is recognising what the only real foundation pro rugby has in the Gwent area.

I've asked and asked, and looked and looked, and the only definition of what a 'region' is supposed to be and do does not exist. I don't give a monkeys how pro teams are structured, owned or marketed, às long as those things are driven ruthlessly by a desire to be better on the field.

Ah ha! You say, and whip your closet Ospreys bat shirt out of your...closet...but look at the 'One True Region' surely they are the blueprint for success? Fair enough, say I (disregarding my own knowwledge of the facts around the ownership and finances of the Ospreys for a second as you clearly aren't ready to upset your little boat with these facts). Explain to me how what what we do is any less regional in any real or meaningful sense. You can't without resorting to a self fulfilling subjective definition of your own of what a region is, so I contend that the regional model is is no way proven to be the best way to be structure pro rugby in Gwent.
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Post by GavinDragon Wed 16 Dec 2015, 9:41 am

Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:Haha entitlement - don't you see the irony? You point at, laugh at and criticise ponty fans for this sense of entitlement to be represented despite them not being able to afford pro rugby, and then fail to realise that you also have the very same sense of entitlement as a Newport fan.

The only difference between you and Steffan is that your club had Tony Brown - be grateful that he was, that pro rugby is on your doorstep and your club's history/heritage is still very much represented by the NGD name.

And I do admire the Ospreys for how well they market themselves - and I love how all the old club fans hate their 'one true region' slogan. It shows how inclusive and clever branding can be a success and it undermines the argument for a return to clubs with all this "heritage" to trade on.


You need to look up irony in the dictionary.

Newport RFC were luck enough to* to attract the necessary financial backing to remain a pro entity, and from thence carry an abortive partnership over the last ten plus years for little thanks and no reward. That is almost the exactly the same circumstances as Pontypridd, only they couldn't attract the necessary cash. That isn't entitlement that is recognising what the only real foundation pro rugby has in the Gwent area.

I've asked and asked, and looked and looked, and the only definition of what a 'region'** is supposed to be and do does not exist. I don't give a monkeys how pro teams are structured, owned or marketed***, às long as those things are driven ruthlessly by a desire to be better on the field.

Ah ha! You say,  and whip your closet Ospreys bat shirt out of your...closet...but look at the 'One True Region' ***surely they are the blueprint for success? Fair enough, say I (disregarding my own knowwledge of the facts around the ownership and finances of the Ospreys for a second as you clearly aren't ready to upset your little boat with these facts). Explain to me how what what we do is any less regional in any real or meaningful sense. You can't without resorting to a self fulfilling subjective definition of your own of what a region is, so I contend that the regional model is is no way proven to be the best way to be structure pro rugby in Gwent.

*Fixed that for you.

** a region is a professional rugby team which provides a player pathway and represents rugby fans from a particular regional area (and just to support my point, our own Director says the NGD represent Gwent http://goo.gl/6jsl6h). A departure from the previous club system in which the pro club represented that city/town/village.

*** You say you don't care how they are marketed, yet contend that they are on a wind up when using the OTR, even though it is proving to be commercially successful for them.

When you say "we" I am assuming you mean the NGD? And the N in that title, while necessary it would seem, IMO shows us to be less regional than the O's because we are clinging to the old club name. Now, you will say this is fair enough as it is Newport RFC who own and run the team so why shouldn't it be in the name etc to which I don't really have a response, but I am not advocating that we drop N from the name (I would like to see it happen but can appreciate why it wont) just using it as an example of how the O's are more regional, inclusive, better branded and more commercially viable as a result.

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Post by Stone Motif Wed 16 Dec 2015, 11:26 am

GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:Haha entitlement - don't you see the irony? You point at, laugh at and criticise ponty fans for this sense of entitlement to be represented despite them not being able to afford pro rugby, and then fail to realise that you also have the very same sense of entitlement as a Newport fan.

The only difference between you and Steffan is that your club had Tony Brown - be grateful that he was, that pro rugby is on your doorstep and your club's history/heritage is still very much represented by the NGD name.

And I do admire the Ospreys for how well they market themselves - and I love how all the old club fans hate their 'one true region' slogan. It shows how inclusive and clever branding can be a success and it undermines the argument for a return to clubs with all this "heritage" to trade on.


You need to look up irony in the dictionary.

Newport RFC were luck enough to* to attract the necessary financial backing to remain a pro entity, and from thence carry an abortive partnership over the last ten plus years for little thanks and no reward. That is almost the exactly the same circumstances as Pontypridd, only they couldn't attract the necessary cash. That isn't entitlement that is recognising what the only real foundation pro rugby has in the Gwent area.

I've asked and asked, and looked and looked, and the only definition of what a 'region'** is supposed to be and do does not exist. I don't give a monkeys how pro teams are structured, owned or marketed***, às long as those things are driven ruthlessly by a desire to be better on the field.

Ah ha! You say,  and whip your closet Ospreys bat shirt out of your...closet...but look at the 'One True Region' ***surely they are the blueprint for success? Fair enough, say I (disregarding my own knowwledge of the facts around the ownership and finances of the Ospreys for a second as you clearly aren't ready to upset your little boat with these facts). Explain to me how what what we do is any less regional in any real or meaningful sense. You can't without resorting to a self fulfilling subjective definition of your own of what a region is, so I contend that the regional model is is no way proven to be the best way to be structure pro rugby in Gwent.

*Fixed that for you.

** a region is a professional rugby team which provides a player pathway and represents rugby fans from a particular regional area (and just to support my point, our own Director says the NGD represent Gwent http://goo.gl/6jsl6h). A departure from the previous club system in which the pro club represented that city/town/village.

*** You say you don't care how they are marketed, yet contend that they are on a wind up when using the OTR, even though it is proving to be commercially successful for them.

When you say "we" I am assuming you mean the NGD? And the N in that title, while necessary it would seem, IMO shows us to be less regional than the O's because we are clinging to the old club name. Now, you will say this is fair enough as it is Newport RFC who own and run the team so why shouldn't it be in the name etc to which I don't really have a response, but I am not advocating that we drop N from the name (I would like to see it happen but can appreciate why it wont) just using it as an example of how the O's are more regional, inclusive, better branded and more commercially viable as a result.

1. What is it, a feckin benefactor lottery?

2. A pro club can do all those things, indeed to your mind two already do.

3. How does the name influence 2 to any degree? Answer it doesn't. You seem to have the chicken and egg mixed up big time with this Ospreys fetishism. If they had started from our abortive position, all the inclusive marketing BS I the world wouldn't have made a jot of difference. You could easily argue that they just got lucky with their benefactors,but I won't drag this down to your level of understanding.

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Post by Guest Wed 16 Dec 2015, 12:14 pm

As admirable as Ospreys marketing might be, the two hybrids/super clubs have never cancelled a game because they didn't have a front row. So much for regional pathways Smile

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 16 Dec 2015, 12:44 pm

Still can't stand the One True Region slogan though - the other three should have a word with them.

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Post by Coleman Wed 16 Dec 2015, 4:02 pm

Team for Montpellier tomorrrow:
1. Jenkins (C)
2. Dacey
3. Felise
4. Hoeata
5. Reed
6. Cook
7. Navidi
8. Vos
9. Knoyle
10. J. Evans
11. James
12. Lee-Lo
13. G. Smith
14. Cuthbert
15. Patchell

16. E. Lewis
17. Hobbs
18. D. Lewis
19. Down
20. Turnbull
21. L. Williams
22. Isaacs
23. Scully

Positives as I see it are that Lee-Lo has been picked at 12 which might release the backs a bit more. I've not seen him at 12 so it'll be interesting. Patchell is at 15 with young Evans getting more time at 10. Smith looked good for the PS XV on sunday so hoping he continues with that form. 

I have no idea how Craig Mitchell has vanished from the team again. Our bench has some very young lads on it and you'd think a 15 times Welsh capped tight head might be worth throwing on after Filese's painkillers wear off. 

Strange to see Knoyle starting as Lloyd is in good form. You'd have thought they'd have kept him in the starting XV.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Wed 16 Dec 2015, 9:41 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:How about you explain why our pro sides (as they are now called remember PRW - much to my annoyance) would be more likely to be accepted into the AP if they were just Newport RFC, Cardiff RFC, Llanelli RFC, Swansea (??) RFC as opposed to what they are called now.

Puzzles me as to why you are annoyed. Headscratch

Because people use that to justify a move away from regions

Blydi mischief makers.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Wed 16 Dec 2015, 10:23 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:Haha entitlement - don't you see the irony? You point at, laugh at and criticise ponty fans for this sense of entitlement to be represented despite them not being able to afford pro rugby, and then fail to realise that you also have the very same sense of entitlement as a Newport fan.

The only difference between you and Steffan is that your club had Tony Brown - be grateful that he was, that pro rugby is on your doorstep and your club's history/heritage is still very much represented by the NGD name.

And I do admire the Ospreys for how well they market themselves - and I love how all the old club fans hate their 'one true region' slogan. It shows how inclusive and clever branding can be a success and it undermines the argument for a return to clubs with all this "heritage" to trade on.


You need to look up irony in the dictionary.

Newport RFC were luck enough to* to attract the necessary financial backing to remain a pro entity, and from thence carry an abortive partnership over the last ten plus years for little thanks and no reward. That is almost the exactly the same circumstances as Pontypridd, only they couldn't attract the necessary cash. That isn't entitlement that is recognising what the only real foundation pro rugby has in the Gwent area.

I've asked and asked, and looked and looked, and the only definition of what a 'region'** is supposed to be and do does not exist. I don't give a monkeys how pro teams are structured, owned or marketed***, às long as those things are driven ruthlessly by a desire to be better on the field.

Ah ha! You say,  and whip your closet Ospreys bat shirt out of your...closet...but look at the 'One True Region' ***surely they are the blueprint for success? Fair enough, say I (disregarding my own knowwledge of the facts around the ownership and finances of the Ospreys for a second as you clearly aren't ready to upset your little boat with these facts). Explain to me how what what we do is any less regional in any real or meaningful sense. You can't without resorting to a self fulfilling subjective definition of your own of what a region is, so I contend that the regional model is is no way proven to be the best way to be structure pro rugby in Gwent.

*Fixed that for you.

** a region is a professional rugby team which provides a player pathway and represents rugby fans from a particular regional area (and just to support my point, our own Director says the NGD represent Gwent http://goo.gl/6jsl6h). A departure from the previous club system in which the pro club represented that city/town/village.

*** You say you don't care how they are marketed, yet contend that they are on a wind up when using the OTR, even though it is proving to be commercially successful for them.

When you say "we" I am assuming you mean the NGD? And the N in that title, while necessary it would seem, IMO shows us to be less regional than the O's because we are clinging to the old club name. Now, you will say this is fair enough as it is Newport RFC who own and run the team so why shouldn't it be in the name etc to which I don't really have a response, but I am not advocating that we drop N from the name (I would like to see it happen but can appreciate why it wont) just using it as an example of how the O's are more regional, inclusive, better branded and more commercially viable as a result.

1. What is it, a feckin benefactor lottery?

2. A pro club can do all those things, indeed to your mind two already do.

3. How does the name influence 2 to any degree? Answer it doesn't. You seem to have the chicken and egg mixed up big time with this Ospreys fetishism. If they had started from our abortive position, all the inclusive marketing BS I  the world wouldn't have made a jot of difference. You could easily argue that they just got lucky with their benefactors,but I won't drag this down to your level of understanding.


Strewth their marketing people are good.
D'you have a link to this new range of XXX rated Ospreys merchandise?

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Post by Cardiff Dave Wed 16 Dec 2015, 10:51 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
GavinDragon wrote:Haha entitlement - don't you see the irony? You point at, laugh at and criticise ponty fans for this sense of entitlement to be represented despite them not being able to afford pro rugby, and then fail to realise that you also have the very same sense of entitlement as a Newport fan.

The only difference between you and Steffan is that your club had Tony Brown - be grateful that he was, that pro rugby is on your doorstep and your club's history/heritage is still very much represented by the NGD name.

And I do admire the Ospreys for how well they market themselves - and I love how all the old club fans hate their 'one true region' slogan. It shows how inclusive and clever branding can be a success and it undermines the argument for a return to clubs with all this "heritage" to trade on.


You need to look up irony in the dictionary.

Newport RFC were luck enough to* to attract the necessary financial backing to remain a pro entity, and from thence carry an abortive partnership over the last ten plus years for little thanks and no reward. That is almost the exactly the same circumstances as Pontypridd, only they couldn't attract the necessary cash. That isn't entitlement that is recognising what the only real foundation pro rugby has in the Gwent area.

I've asked and asked, and looked and looked, and the only definition of what a 'region'** is supposed to be and do does not exist. I don't give a monkeys how pro teams are structured, owned or marketed***, às long as those things are driven ruthlessly by a desire to be better on the field.

Ah ha! You say,  and whip your closet Ospreys bat shirt out of your...closet...but look at the 'One True Region' ***surely they are the blueprint for success? Fair enough, say I (disregarding my own knowwledge of the facts around the ownership and finances of the Ospreys for a second as you clearly aren't ready to upset your little boat with these facts). Explain to me how what what we do is any less regional in any real or meaningful sense. You can't without resorting to a self fulfilling subjective definition of your own of what a region is, so I contend that the regional model is is no way proven to be the best way to be structure pro rugby in Gwent.

*Fixed that for you.

** a region is a professional rugby team which provides a player pathway and represents rugby fans from a particular regional area (and just to support my point, our own Director says the NGD represent Gwent http://goo.gl/6jsl6h). A departure from the previous club system in which the pro club represented that city/town/village.

*** You say you don't care how they are marketed, yet contend that they are on a wind up when using the OTR, even though it is proving to be commercially successful for them.

When you say "we" I am assuming you mean the NGD? And the N in that title, while necessary it would seem, IMO shows us to be less regional than the O's because we are clinging to the old club name. Now, you will say this is fair enough as it is Newport RFC who own and run the team so why shouldn't it be in the name etc to which I don't really have a response, but I am not advocating that we drop N from the name (I would like to see it happen but can appreciate why it wont) just using it as an example of how the O's are more regional, inclusive, better branded and more commercially viable as a result.

As you're clearly not happy supporting a team with the Newport name in the title, why not come down to your capital and support Cardiff? Everybody and anybody is welcome to join in.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Wed 16 Dec 2015, 11:17 pm

Fair question I spose;

"Are you a school within the Cardiff Blues Region?"

"Great discounts available for our schools in the region for the New Years Day Cracker against @scarlets_rugby!"

https://twitter.com/CBluesCommunity/status/677126751210881024

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 16 Dec 2015, 11:52 pm

Coleman wrote:Team for Montpellier tomorrrow:
1. Jenkins (C)
2. Dacey
3. Felise
4. Hoeata
5. Reed
6. Cook
7. Navidi
8. Vos
9. Knoyle
10. J. Evans
11. James
12. Lee-Lo
13. G. Smith
14. Cuthbert
15. Patchell

16. E. Lewis
17. Hobbs
18. D. Lewis
19. Down
20. Turnbull
21. L. Williams
22. Isaacs
23. Scully

Positives as I see it are that Lee-Lo has been picked at 12 which might release the backs a bit more. I've not seen him at 12 so it'll be interesting. Patchell is at 15 with young Evans getting more time at 10. Smith looked good for the PS XV on sunday so hoping he continues with that form. 

I have no idea how Craig Mitchell has vanished from the team again. Our bench has some very young lads on it and you'd think a 15 times Welsh capped tight head might be worth throwing on after Filese's painkillers wear off. 

Strange to see Knoyle starting as Lloyd is in good form. You'd have thought they'd have kept him in the starting XV.

A couple of strange ones there I agree - are Blues trying to win this one? I think every game is a must win and you need your best players in the team. Personally I wouldn't have Knoyle or Turnbull in the 23 - both garbage players. Which Smith is that Garyn? Apart from that it's a good team so best of luck?

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 17 Dec 2015, 10:52 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Which Smith is that Garyn?

Yep thats him, he is a cracking young player and Cardiff Blues have used him on the wing a few times this season. I reckon he is better than Gavin Evans anyway.

edit:- Scrap what I have just said, I was thinking of Richard Smith. Doh


Last edited by LordDowlais on Thu 17 Dec 2015, 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Coleman Thu 17 Dec 2015, 10:54 am

I'm not sure. It isn't the best or worst team we could put out. It'll be a great bit of experience for the Lewis & Lewis if they get on. 

I think Turnbull is alright. But i'd assume he came from the Scarlets on a big wage and honestly i'd rather have Cook or Navidi/Jenkins/Hoeata at 6 as they're better players in my eyes.

Not sure what to make of Knoyle, he just hasn't kicked on from a few years ago. Maybe this is Wilson giving him a chance. I'd still rather see hin at Centre then Gavin Evans mind you.

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Post by XR Thu 17 Dec 2015, 12:27 pm

Knoyle did alright for the blues last season considering but now Lloyd is back to form he's definitely 2nd choice. I think he's coming back from injury and with this game is a good opportunity for him to get some fitness in before the derbies.

ps. it is Garyn Smith.

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Cardiff Blues Season Thread 3 - Danny Wilson Appointed Head Coach - Page 19 Empty Re: Cardiff Blues Season Thread 3 - Danny Wilson Appointed Head Coach

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