Wales v England - 6 February 2015 - Match thread

[BamBam]

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Wales v England
6 February 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off at 20.05

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (FFR)
AR1: Romain Poite (FFR)
AR2: Mathieu Raynal (FFR)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

Live on BBC1

Wales

01. Gethin Jenkins
02. Richard Hibbard
03. Samson Lee
04. Alun Wyn Jones
05. Jake Ball
06. Dan Lydiate
07. Sam Warburton (c)
08. Toby Faletau

09. Rhys Webb
10. Dan Biggar
11. George North
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Scott Baldwin
17. Paul James
18. Aaron Jarvis
19. Luke Charteris
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Mike Phillips
22. Rhys Preistland
23. Liam Williams

England

15. Mike Brown
14. Anthony Watson
13. Jonathan Joseph
12. Luther Burrell
11. Jonny May
10. George Ford
09. Ben Youngs  

01. Joe Marler
02. Dylan Hartley
03. Dan Cole
04. David Attwood
05. George Kruis
06. James Haskell
07. Chris Robshaw (captain)
08. Billy Vunipola

16. Tom Youngs
17. Mako Vunipola
18. Kieran Brookes
19. Tom Croft
20. Nick Easter
21. Richard Wigglesworth
22. Danny Cipriani
23. Billy Twelvetrees

[BamBam]

Croft being in doesn't make me miserable but I do think Clark's form should have meant he was there, or more sensibly, Kitchener as lock cover and Easter as the 8 replacement.

If he was going down the makeshift lock replacement route, then putting Clark and Easter both on the bench makes more sense, as both can sort of cover lock, and at least gives an option of a rejig later on in the event of Easter on at lock early doors due to injury.

If one of our locks does get injured, we are truly up sh1t creek

[LondonTiger]

To me it seems a sign of weakness from SL. He knows he will be pilloried if he does not include Easter - but from the bench Easter really covers only No8. Should Haskell or Robshaw be injured neither Easter nor BillyV would be pleasing options on the flank. Depending on the state of the game I can see them using either of Croft and Easter on the bench. Both have played their a bit (Croft in an HEC final) but neither fill me with confidence.

I would rather have had Kitch and Clark on the bench. would be harsh on Easter but I feel he should be eithe rin the starting XV or not at all.

[Chjw131]

Kitchener can feel aggrieved to miss out! Guess it came down to Easters versatility! I won't be surprised if Nowell has leapfrogged Watson

Yes Kitchener very unlucky, i'd have had him as a starter to be frank. I like Nowell but I think Watson has the shirt but nothing to choose between them skills-wise at the moment. I prefer Watson's running style but Nowell is just as effective.

[Chjw131]

Croft comes in as much for his experience as anything else I think. Clark has performed well this season but Croft is much more of a leadership figure in a team shorn of leaders.

[king_carlos]

Looks like we will see:

1.Marler
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Kruis
5.Attwood
6.Haskell
7.Robshaw
8.B Vunipola

9.B Youngs
10.Ford

11.May
12.Burrell
13.Joseph
14.Watson or Nowell
15.Brown

16.T Youngs
17.M Vunipola
18.Brookes
19.Croft
20.Easter
21.Wigglesworth
22.Cipriani
23.Twelvetrees

So Thomas and one of Nowell and Watson to miss out.

Really disappointed by the lack of real lock cover when we're up against a very physical side and have such an inexperienced lock partnership.

[Dim]

I think it's a very brave (risky) bench selection. Instead of picking to cover every possible injury Lancaster has picked an impact bench that allows for a change of tactics. Introducing Mako, Croft and Cipriani at the same time for example could allow England to play a more aggressive expansive game if we need to chase tries in the final 15/mins. Conversely bringing on Easter, Wigglesworth and Nowell (assuming Watson starts) could be very good for helping to defend a lead in the last 10. This is all very well and good provided nobody gets injured early but given our current luck I'm not hopeful. An early injury in the 2nd row or to Burrell and we're in trouble. I dread the thought of 70 minutes with an Easter/Croft and Kruis second row or a Joseph and May centre partnership.

If it works it's brave if it doesn't its stupid.

Alternatively Lancaster might panic and pick Twelvetrees/Burrell at centre with Joseph on the bench covering centre and wing or God forbid Twelvetrees on the bench covering 10

[thomh]

To me it seems a sign of weakness from SL. He knows he will be pilloried if he does not include Easter - but from the bench Easter really covers only No8. Should Haskell or Robshaw be injured neither Easter nor BillyV would be pleasing options on the flank. Depending on the state of the game I can see them using either of Croft and Easter on the bench. Both have played their a bit (Croft in an HEC final) but neither fill me with confidence.

I would rather have had Kitch and Clark on the bench. would be harsh on Easter but I feel he should be eithe rin the starting XV or not at all.

Would he? As good as Easter has been, I don't think people would be appalled if he didn't make the 23. He would have been pilloried if he'd gone for Clark instead of course, for different reasons.

[BamBam]

Na, this time he would be fully justified if he had Clark on the bench based on playing performances

[thomh]

Na, this time he would be fully justified if he had Clark on the bench based on playing performances

Yes, but obviously some people will never want Clark in the England team after what happened.

[Tiger/Chief]

Not saying that people are wrong for the sake of it but everyone seems be sure that Joseph is in but 12Trees and Burell have been a very succesfull partnership for Lancaster and it's the first time they've been fit together since the 6 nations!

[thomh]

Not saying that people are wrong for the sake of it but everyone seems be sure that Joseph is in but 12Trees and Burell have been a very succesfull partnership for Lancaster and it's the first time they've been fit together since the 6 nations!

They were good, but the Telegraph reckons Joseph is in and they normally have insider info on England selection. Their Cipriani/Easter predicition was true.

Also, Twelvetrees and Burrell did play together in NZ 2nd test, but not in the 3rd...

[englandglory4ever]

Will the ref penalise Jenkins for boring in all the time?

[Tiger/Chief]

I'm really hoping that the Telegraph has got it right! If the pack can provide a good platform I fancy Joseph, May Nowell/Watson to have the attacking edge we need.

[The Saint]

England will lose, but I think the real question you should be asking is will they lose by less than 27 points this time?

[yappysnap]

Surprised Care's out on his ear again. He's really being punished for those dodgy kicks in the AI's. Means third choice and most average scrum half Wigglesworth can come on and kick the leather off the ball at 60 mins I guess.

[bedfordwelsh]

I'm really hoping that the Telegraph has got it right! If the pack can provide a good platform I fancy Joseph, May Nowell/Watson to have the attacking edge we need.

I think whatever pack England pick will at worst gain parity and give them a decent platform on their own ball at least.

[majesticimperialman]

England will lose, but I think the real question you should be asking is will they lose by less than 27 points this time?

Saint All the pressure is on Wales this Friday night right?

Wales are at home. So it is up to Wales to prove that 2013 6ns was not a fluke.

I dont think England will loose to be honest. But, i could be wrong.

[bedfordwelsh]

England will lose, but I think the real question you should be asking is will they lose by less than 27 points this time?

Saint All the pressure is on Wales this Friday night right?

Wales are at home. So it is up to Wales to prove that 2013 6ns was not a fluke.

I dont think England will loose to be honest. But, i could be wrong.

I think there is more pressure on us given we are at home and the so called weaker England side likely to be fielded (won't be that weak IMO) and I do think we are slight favourites.

However there seems to be a lot of thoughts thinking England are favourites given the form clubs have shown in Europe and how people constantly talk up the standard of the Aviva over the Guinness.

I was stunned by the margin of victory 2 years ago and if there is anything more than a score in it either way Friday I will be shocked.

[stub]

Surprised Care's out on his ear again. He's really being punished for those dodgy kicks in the AI's. Means third choice and most average scrum half Wigglesworth can come on and kick the leather off the ball at 60 mins I guess.

I'm surprised and disappointed about Care too - can't understand how he's that far down the pecking order now.

[Chjw131]

I can understand, although don't approve of, the omission of Care. Lancs wants a strong kicking game from 9 to help out GF especially given Burrell can't kick from IC. Having Wigglesworth/Youngs/Brown/GF as tactical kickers gives England more options. I also think Lancs feels he doesn't need the same incision from 9 with Ford at 10.

[stub]

I'm looking forward to this - I think Wales are favourites but I fancy England to do enough to get a narrow victory. I'm agreeing that there is more pressure on Wales for this one and that England's enforced changes might just work in our favour. I hope I'm right but won't be surprised to be wrong - Wales are a strong and talented team who will take some beating.

[stub]

I can understand, although don't approve of, the omission of Care. Lancs wants a strong kicking game from 9 to help out GF especially given Burrell can't kick from IC. Having Wigglesworth/Youngs/Brown/GF as tactical kickers gives England more options. I also think Lancs feels he doesn't need the same incision from 9 with Ford at 10.

Very interesting - makes sense especially with Ford offering more incision than Farrell.

[The Saint]

England will lose, but I think the real question you should be asking is will they lose by less than 27 points this time?

Saint All the pressure is on Wales this Friday night right?

Wales are at home. So it is up to Wales to prove that 2013 6ns was not a fluke.

I dont think England will loose to be honest. But, i could be wrong.

Why is all the pressure on Wales? Surely both teams are going out there to win... If anything there's more pressure on England with all these forced changes, though they did cope well in NZ when it last happened. Prove 2013 wasn't a fluke? How so when we won 2 years on the trot... Bonehead statements.

[Duty281]

More pressure on Wales because they are the favourites, and it will be a severe psychological blow should they lose two in a row to England.

[BigTrevsbigmac]

Saint as if it really needs to be said but


Wales are at home.
Wales are the favourites
Wales have a full strength squad.
Welsh fans expectation.
It's Wc year & both teams in same WC group.

If Wales don't win with all things in their favour will they have any realistic expectation to win later in the year when those things won't be?

That's why the pressure is on Wales

[Guest]

England are higher in the world rankings and playing lowly old wales who can only muster 4 professional teams. None of these teams have progressed in the Champions Cup, whereas the English teams have done well, and the Welsh players have a generally poor record against the top teams in the world. Advantage England I feel

[Breadvan]

Making friends on the Wales squad thread too saint? Wales have a full strength team, were depleted by injuries but can still field a decent side. Maybe the pressures on Wales I dunno. I feel gatland is feeling it, given his statements over the past few days. Wales play one way, I just hope SL is switched on enough to counter it.

[Guest]

Wales also have to deal with being "favourites".

I agree BigTrevs, no disrespect to England, but if Wales can't put them away comfortably with these conditions they can forget about the World Cup. Its tough to put such a weight of expectations on our players but that's what they need to do to show they are progressing.

[Rugby Fan]

If that is the England bench, then I do like the mix it offers. The Ben/Billy pairing always seemed a bit one-dimensional to me, not really posing different questions for the opposition if our main plan wasn't coming off.

Having said that, Sod's Law dictates Easter will make his England return in the second row, where his subtle off-loading game will be entirely obscured, and Cipriani will be on for a concussed Brown, where he'll be asked to spend the game competing in the air for high kicks.

[The Saint]

Making friends on the Wales squad thread too saint? Wales have a full strength team, were depleted by injuries but can still field a decent side. Maybe the pressures on Wales I dunno. I feel gatland is feeling it, given his statements over the past few days. Wales play one way, I just hope SL is switched on enough to counter it.

Oh shut up moron. And stop acting like you know me when you come across me via a group on facebook. You're such an itch, that's the last reply you'll get from me on social media. #mosthatedmaninswansea #welshmanindenial #mostblinkeredospreysfan #loser

[The Saint]

Saint as if it really needs to be said but


Wales are at home.
Wales are the favourites
Wales have a full strength squad.
Welsh fans expectation.
It's Wc year & both teams in same WC group.

If Wales don't win with all things in their favour will they have any realistic expectation to win  later in the year when those things won't be?

That's why the pressure is on Wales

FatTrev, could the same apply to your team;

England are away (they hate Cardiff)
England are one of favourites for tournament
England have a weakened squad (supposedly)
England fans expectations
It's WC year, it's in England (more pressure) and both teams in same WC group

Nice try at getting excuses in early though. More bonehead statements. Pathetic.

[BamBam]

Blimey, you're at your charming best today aren't you sainty

[The Saint]

Blimey, you're at your charming best today aren't you sainty

Maybe it's a bit late and I should get off here... I still feel there's a lot of rubbish being spouted, don't see why Wales are being talked up (we're slagged off every other day/week of the year) and why England are being 'talked down' - they have enough strength in depth to remain on the same level as it was previously shown in NZ. I also don't see how there can only be pressure on one team to win their first match in the 6 Nations, unless that team is coming in on the back of 100 losses...then yeah, there's pressure.

[yappysnap]

I get confused, so who's the underdog??

[maestegmafia]

Care's ommission seems bizarre but otherwise that is the form England backline they couldn't pick better players. Pack looks ok too. It won't be an easy win for Wales this weekend but it would be a poor night for them if they lose.

[Duty281]

I get confused, so who's the underdog??

Wales are 8/15 with a lot of bookmakers, whilst England are 6/4.

Fair is fair!

[doctor_grey]

Jeez,
Who gives a toss who is favoured by betting money? It doesn't change anything: Both teams want to win, both teams feel equal pressure to win, and the backup player in their respective squads feel a lot of pressure to help the squad win and also to try for a place in the squad. So, let's have at it.

And by the way, although I don't ever feel fear, I have deep, deep, deep concerns about Cipriani getting on the pitch Friday night. Deep concerns.

[rainbow-warrior]

The Sais one game up against Wales since they commenced playing each other. Now why would Wales want to be frightened of anything Sais? It is evident just by WG mentioning almost nothing statements and the responses by the Sais camp and the Sais fans that they are quite the easiest race to wind up since the watch.

Some numpty commented on the 30 - 3 being a fluke! So that's the same fluke the Sais had when beating NZ a few seasons ago !!

Anyway if Wales only win by one point it's enough and you only have to play a little bit better than the crap the Sais may play

Dal dy dir.

[George Carlin]

Is this thread about to descend into the Hunger Games?

[Biltong]

Well Wales have won 5 of the last 6 at home (Since Gatland took over), the aggregate score was Wales 129- 80 England, if you remove the blow out of two years ago, then it suggests Wales is better by a score.

So they are favourites, but not by much.

[LondonTiger]

Is this thread about to descend into the Hunger Games?

So which poster is the girl on fire?

[Breadvan]

Woah there saint. Calm down a bit fella. That was only a wink emoticon. How you can get so riled up over pols different opinions is beyond. Just enjoy the game fgs.
Oh, and those hashtags are wildly inaccurate.

[beshocked]

the saint

England aren't favourites for the tournament - that's Ireland.



Pressure on both sides to win of course but there is more on Wales.

Wales have home advantage - the Welsh faithful will not tolerate a loss to England at the Millennium Stadium - still riding high from their 30-3 victory two years ago. Plus as you keep saying the record against England is good at home so a win is expected = pressure.

This is a settled Welsh team and squad - Wales should be able to fire on all cylinders with a full strength team = pressure.

England in comparison no they are up against it - the Welsh at home are a tough prospect as already mentioned - England do have a sizable absentee list. Yet again continuity in selection will be another issue. New players also means a switch in approach might be taken.

Though saying that it's the 1st game that is probably the best time to play Wales away - Wales in my opinion do seem to start relatively slowly and build momentum as the 6 nations tournament goes on so England must aim to hit Wales hard and early.

Ireland did that in 2013 and reaped the rewards.

[LordDowlais]

As I have posted on the other thread, that England squad looks very strong, so much for all their injuries, I wish there was a nervous smiley I could put on here, you English sure do have some serious strength in depth, not many other teams in the world could have as much injuries and still put a side like that out, I was quietly confident yesterday, today I am more on the side of caution (or bricking it in laymans terms).

[Jimpy]

Ah, after an absence of several months due to being away with work, its a return to the forum for me.

I see some things havent changed.

Anyway, for what its worth, I think Wales will edge it, they showed in the Autumn that they can run the top teams close at home by playing a high intensity game from the outset. I know they lost narrowly on a couple of occasions, but they were playing SH opposition. Against England in the 6N.... well, could be different, the 6N aren't the AIs and for some reason, Wales do not usually get off to a sprint start. On the other hand, if they play with anything like the initial intensity thay showed in the AI then they will have to much for England IMO - or at least, England will have too much to do to catch up and win.

England are somewhat unquantifiable at the moment and herein lies their strength. Mix it up and match Welsh intensity, and England could win but it wont be by much. Stick to the old SL methods and they'll be bogged down in midfield, and then turned over, they'll lose.

The lack of cover at 2nd row is a concern for England, not least because England's line-out options are limited as it is at the moment. If Hartley gets binned or even sent off or substituted, we're left with TY erratic throwing and it'll be difficult to maintain parity at set-piece. We need a proper line-out operator.

Other than that, fairly happy with the selection. A year ago I laughed at people who suggested Cips should get a run out - i'm not so scornful now. Easter is in good club form, so i'll be interested to see how he goes.

Beshocked will be glad to see Nowell sent home i'm sure ;-)

[BamBam]

Nowell is in the squad!

[Barney McGrew did it]

We've lost our 1st choice props, 2nd row, 2/3rds of our BR, our FH (?!), pretty much every centre who's ever played for us; we've bussed in a flaky FH (?) and an old man river number 8. And we're still favourites?! Oh my!

[LordDowlais]

Barney, I am not saying that England are favourites, but you have to admit, even with all your injuries, that is a stronger squad than what Wales could ever hope to have.

[TheRugbyMaster]

Welcome all! Six Nations season is here again. I'm Hartley looking forward to the Friday night kick off and to be honest I'm wishing away this week in anticipation!

Good luck to both teams and supporters for what promises to be an mouth watering opener to the series.

This years tournament should be one of the mostly hotly contested of all time with each team having had strong Autumn showings.

Can anyone tell me if the roof will be open or closed?

My hunch is that Wales will be comfortable victors on the night with the likelihood of a griping "heart in mouth" last ten minutes. My feeling is that the English bench has more power but the settled Welsh side's stars might have a night to remember.

Simply fascinating in the greater context of a World Cup year. I can't wait!

[BamBam]

All this talking up of England's 2nd and in some cases third and fourth choice players by the Welsh is getting very boring

If I'd dared to suggest that Attwood and Kruis are better players than AWJ in a completely isolated conversation 3 months ago, I would (probably quite rightly) be laughed at.

Now the Welsh are being tagged as favourites, they are desperately trying to shake that off on here, despite the bookies and all the media giving them that label.

Just in case it isn't clear, I'll go through the line up and point out where our squad has been weakened (and yes I know injuries are part of the game and its a squad game etc)

Marler - 1st
Hartley - 1st
Cole - a fully fit and firing Cole is 1st , this one is clearly 2nd behind Wilson
Attwood - 3rd  lock
Kruis - 5th behind Lawes, Launchbury, Attwood and Parling, probably competing with Kitchener for 5th
Haskell - Wood has always started when fit, so i'll say 2nd
Robshaw - Obvious 1st
Vunipola - 2nd choice behind Morgan
Youngs - 1st  (for now)
Ford - 1st  
May - 1st
Burrell - Probably Barritt as 1st, but not too many issues here
Joseph - Tuilagi is 1st clearly, I reckon if Barritt was fit then Burrell would be here, so 2nd/3rd despite his form
Watson - Probably 1st
Brown - 1st

So 5 of the pack are 2nd choice at best (admittedly Haskell is debatable), and our centres as always are a complete tossup

But apparently, that's a stronger squad than the Welsh could ever hope to have

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