Taking the player out in the air.

Fallout from Wales vs Scotland.

This taking the player in the air is nonsense. Both yellows IMO were not worthy of getting cards. Secondly Warburton and Gatland claiming Russel should have been red carded is really really uncalled for. It was an accident, no malice (unlike Hogg last year).

So here is my suggestion.

If the ball is in the air, keep your feet on the ground.

Anyone jumping for a ball with their knees up should be penalized and yellow carded. If your not jumping in the air it's pretty hard to land on your head.

Whilst you are at it, lets bring back properly calling for the mark as a fullback. That will bring positioning back instead of being able to catch it whilst diving.

To honest I thought Russel was getting a red and was quite surprise he didn't. I would have penalised Davies and no more.

EDIT: But I would all for your not jumping thing.

Both were the same offence and both didn't have any malice. Both yellows.

HammerofThunor wrote:To honest I thought Russel was getting a red and was quite surprise he didn't. I would have penalised Davies and no more.

EDIT: But I would all for your not jumping thing.

Taking a player out in the air is taking the player out in the air. Whether someone is injured or not have no significance on who gets carded and who doesn't.

Biggar landed badly and was thankfully not hurt. The only saving grace for the Ref was he was at least consistent.

This jumping for the ball is dangerous and it's only a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt. These are big, brave blokes who seem to have no regard for their personal safety.

The IRB need to address this very quickly.

I don't believe that either deserved a card to be honest. I know the rules and they were both correctly yellow carded but on both occasions, both players had their eyes on the ball and showed zero intent to take a player out.

Its a contact sport and I am all for competing for the ball but if its going to be deemed dangerous when competing for the ball then ban jumping I say.

I thought Biggars jump was dangerous, both knees up and charging forward, Russel had no choice but to pull out unless he wanted to be knocked out.

TightHEAD wrote:I thought Biggars jump was dangerous, both knees up and charging forward, Russel had no choice but to pull out unless he wanted to be knocked out.

And that's the other way to look at it, quite rightly as well. That can also be seen as dangerous play.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:To honest I thought Russel was getting a red and was quite surprise he didn't. I would have penalised Davies and no more.

EDIT: But I would all for your not jumping thing.

Taking a player out in the air is taking the player out in the air. Whether someone is injured or not have no significance on who gets carded and who doesn't.

Biggar landed badly and was thankfully not hurt. The only saving grace for the Ref was he was at least consistent.

This jumping for the ball is dangerous and it's only a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt. These are big, brave blokes who seem to have no regard for their personal safety.

The IRB need to address this very quickly.

Yes..

And I don't know if there is an obvious way of fixing the problem. You could ban jumping but that would upset a lot of people. What do they do in sports like Aussie Rules? (actually I can guess what they do in Aussie(no) Rules)

I remember a game (I think Wales Scotland) where Hugh Southall was kicked in the face (leading with a foot out straight in front of them) from the jumper yet it was him that was carded

The whole jumping in the air is a total nonsense now

Nachos Jones wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:I thought Biggars jump was dangerous, both knees up and charging forward, Russel had no choice but to pull out unless he wanted to be knocked out.

And that's the other way to look at it, quite rightly as well. That can also be seen as dangerous play.

Fantastic kick and chase but at what point are you just playing for the penalty/card? Russell didnt deal with it well, but you do have to ask yourself what were his options?

The one who always used to annoy me was Byrne sticking his foot out..

(edit - same incident as above ^^)

I could never have seen Russells as a red because Biggar jumped into him. He didn't move towards Biggar, he just tried to protect his head when he saw Biggars knee flying towards him at top speed. It's crazy you could get a red for that, a yellow in those circumstances is harsh.

Should have been a penalty and thats it. The other one as well, thought that should have been a penalty- Davies is competing for the ball and didn't intend to do anything. Nothing in it.

I'm convinced the second one was only yellow to 'even up' the first one.

Riskysports wrote:I remember a game (I think Wales Scotland) where Hugh Southall was kicked in the face (leading with a foot out straight in front of them) from the jumper yet it was him that was carded

The whole jumping in the air is a total nonsense now

lee Byrne, the same guy who KO'd Geoff Cross and Cross got carded whilst being stretchered off.

My opinion is clear. If you want to compete for the ball keep your feet on the ground. It's a contact sport but leaving your feet is just dangerous. You are not allowed to jump over tackles for this very reason.

Nachos Jones wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:I thought Biggars jump was dangerous, both knees up and charging forward, Russel had no choice but to pull out unless he wanted to be knocked out.

And that's the other way to look at it, quite rightly as well. That can also be seen as dangerous play.

Disagree here, Russell has to either compete for the ball or not, he was clearly beaten to it and put himself in a bad situation.

I think it should be as simple as red or nothing, if you deliberately take someone out in the air it is dangerous and should be a red card if the player collides with the jumper accidentally or attempts to pull out and should be a penalty or no more. Surely an incident in which a player attempts to avoid damage to another player should be applauded not punished. Sam Warburton is a disgrace although I've revised my opinion of the Davies incident after watching it again and the yellow was harsh.

IronMike wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:I thought Biggars jump was dangerous, both knees up and charging forward, Russel had no choice but to pull out unless he wanted to be knocked out.

And that's the other way to look at it, quite rightly as well. That can also be seen as dangerous play.

Disagree here, Russell has to either compete for the ball or not, he was clearly beaten to it and put himself in a bad situation.

To me, Russell was watching the ball and going to compete for it, has a look and see's Biggar up high, stops and tries to protect himself, he did not move himself into a dangerous position but found himself in one. You could argue either way as to who was instigating the dangerous play in this one.

IronMike wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:I thought Biggars jump was dangerous, both knees up and charging forward, Russel had no choice but to pull out unless he wanted to be knocked out.

And that's the other way to look at it, quite rightly as well. That can also be seen as dangerous play.

Disagree here, Russell has to either compete for the ball or not, he was clearly beaten to it and put himself in a bad situation.

He was beaten to the ball but realized it too late. Far too late to prevent making contact with Biggar. I'm curious as to what you think he could/should have done.

This is important to me, my nephew is now playing U16s for Morgan Accademy. He's a full back (much to my annoyance) and I see him leaping for the ball when I go along and watch him. He's been hit once in the air and luckily wasn't injured. But its only a matter of time before someone gets killed with this type of play continuing.

I've only seen it once or twice, but I did think the Russell yellow was a really tough one. I don't think the ref had any option under the current interpretation but to give it, but it illustrates how difficult it is to make these calls both fair and consistent.

Russell went up to compete for the ball, realised he wasn't going to get there and... well, what are his options? He's travelling too fast to back pedal out of the way, if he veers to the side then Biggar gets a clear run at the line, so as it was he stopped and turned away and Biggar goes over the top of him. His only real option would have been to realise earlier that he wasn't going to win the ball - but what competitive player believes that.

I'm beginning to wonder if we should just ban jumping for the ball. You probably have to add something that says the chasing player has a choice: they can compete for the ball without jumping, or they can make a tackle, but only after allowing a clean catch. It would be good to see it trialled at, say U20, level to see how they adapt.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

IronMike wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:I thought Biggars jump was dangerous, both knees up and charging forward, Russel had no choice but to pull out unless he wanted to be knocked out.

And that's the other way to look at it, quite rightly as well. That can also be seen as dangerous play.

Disagree here, Russell has to either compete for the ball or not, he was clearly beaten to it and put himself in a bad situation.

He was beaten to the ball but realized it too late. Far too late to prevent making contact with Biggar. I'm curious as to what you think he could/should have done.

This is important to me, my nephew is now playing U16s for Morgan Accademy. He's a full back (much to my annoyance) and I see him leaping for the ball when I go along and watch him. He's been hit once in the air and luckily wasn't injured. But its only a matter of time before someone gets killed with this type of play continuing.

Honestly? I don't think there was anything he could have done in that situation, he was unlucky in some respects, hypothetically speaking he could have been quicker and more committed to catching it, at least then it might not have been a yellow.

But I could say the same thing to players getting pinned at the bottom of a ruck by other players and penalised for "not rolling away" where theres absolutely no chance to.

Taking a player out in the air is such a grey area at the moment, and theres no overall consensus on how it should be refereed, there was no malice in what Russell did but it was dangerous, same with Davies' card for the same offence.

Incident in the England - Italy game as well, where England hoist a high ball, May chases and jumps with the Italian winger (Sarto?). Contact in the air as both are jumping (May's shoulder to Sarto's chest). Both players make some contact with the ball (eventually coming back England's way), but Sarto gets tipped over and lands on his back from a significant height.

Now to the current rules there was no foul play involved, just two players competing for the ball in the air, but the results could easily have been serious - fortunately, Sarto got up after a couple of deep breaths, but with how little control he had in the air, anything could have happened.

Not sure through that you can make jumping for the ball in open play illegal - kick off receptions, interceptions and taking bad passes all require jumping at times. The difference with kick receptions is that they are often being competed for between two players moving quickly in opposing directions.

Do agree though about penalising players for dangerous play if they jump in an exaggerated manner such as raising knees or (especially) feet supposedly to protect themselves.

We have learnt last November when the Boks play you don't go near anyone jumping in the air for a ball, in fact you stay as far away as possible, don't touch him, nudge him or look at him.

Nachos Jones wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:I thought Biggars jump was dangerous, both knees up and charging forward, Russel had no choice but to pull out unless he wanted to be knocked out.

And that's the other way to look at it, quite rightly as well. That can also be seen as dangerous play.

And that is where I would draw the line. Jumping for the ball from a stationary position, or a 'vertical' jump, would be ok; but a 'horizontal' or charging jump would not be.

Russell would have had to be suicidal to jump and contest that ball - he might have avoided a card but would almost certainly have been injured as the momentum of the Welsh player would have made the impact worse. Not to mention the foot / leg positioning.

At present the only safe and legal way is not to go near the ball but to 'give' it to the attacking player and try to tackle him as soon as he hits the ground. Or hope that he knocks on.

In the other incident where both players jumped I thought the problem was that the Welsh player 'tackled' Beattie in the air and pulled him down.

Absolutely ridiculous/insane if anything comes of this;

http://scottishrugby.org/news/15/02/16/disciplinary-update-finn-russell-citing

Isn't there a sport where contesting the ball in the air is a central part of the game?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BAaCBC1V1Q

Notch wrote:Absolutely ridiculous/insane if anything comes of this;

http://scottishrugby.org/news/15/02/16/disciplinary-update-finn-russell-citing

in thats case bring this clown Eugene Ryan, and this clown Glenn Jackson to the dock for utter incompetence .

absolutely outrageous, in fact id call this bringing the game into disrepute , farcical.

lets also bring jenkins along for his head butt on hogg. that was pure dirty play . not even a comparison !

I cannot believe what I am reading on here, FFS, are people really that blinded. Finn Russell mad NO attempt to get the ball, he did not jump, he was not even looking at the ball, he just ran at Dan Biggar who was in the air at the time. He could have easily pulled out of the challenge, instead he tried to duck under Bigger, why could he have not jumped in the air as well ? Because he knew he was not going to win the aerial battle, he knew he had lost the challenge and tried to duck under him, thus he knew what he was doing, for me it was a red all day long, and people on here can polish it up all they like, the fact that Finn Russell did not even look at the ball tells its own story. As for not jumping for the ball, that is rubbish, being good at jumping and taking the ball in the air is the difference between being a good full back and being a world class full back, take that ability away from people and you immediately take the advantage of a better player away.

Finn Russell was reckless in that challenge, why are people trying to defend it ? He knew what he was doing, the contest was lost and he chose to take Biggar out, that is the long and short of it, at least John Davies tried to contest the ball he was yellowed for.

LordDowlais wrote:I cannot believe what I am reading on here, FFS, are people really that blinded. Finn Russell mad NO attempt to get the ball, he did not jump, he was not even looking at the ball, he just ran at Dan Biggar who was in the air at the time. He could have easily pulled out of the challenge, instead he tried to duck under Bigger, why could he have not jumped in the air as well ? Because he knew he was not going to win the aerial battle, he knew he had lost the challenge and tried to duck under him, thus he knew what he was doing, for me it was a red all day long, and people on here can polish it up all they like, the fact that Finn Russell did not even look at the ball tells its own story. As for not jumping for the ball, that is rubbish, being good at jumping and taking the ball in the air is the difference between being a good full back and being a world class full back, take that ability away from people and you immediately take the advantage of a better player away.

Finn Russell was reckless in that challenge, why are people trying to defend it ? He knew what he was doing, the contest was lost and he chose to take Biggar out, that is the long and short of it, at least John Davies tried to contest the ball he was yellowed for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWIOPJIZpvc&t=0m39s

LordDowlais, is Russell looking at the ball as he's coming forward?

reallybored wrote:LordDowlais, is Russell looking at the ball as he's coming forward?

He was not looking at the ball when he knew he would not win the contest, on what planet would you try and duck under somebody, he knew what he was doing and he was taking Biggar out in the air whilst he was still firmly both feet planted on the ground.

Well it was either be completely smashed in the head with both of Biggar's knees, or try and duck out of it. By the time he stopped looking at the ball and saw Biggar, that was the only option

reallybored wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I cannot believe what I am reading on here, FFS, are people really that blinded. Finn Russell mad NO attempt to get the ball, he did not jump, he was not even looking at the ball, he just ran at Dan Biggar who was in the air at the time. He could have easily pulled out of the challenge, instead he tried to duck under Bigger, why could he have not jumped in the air as well ? Because he knew he was not going to win the aerial battle, he knew he had lost the challenge and tried to duck under him, thus he knew what he was doing, for me it was a red all day long, and people on here can polish it up all they like, the fact that Finn Russell did not even look at the ball tells its own story. As for not jumping for the ball, that is rubbish, being good at jumping and taking the ball in the air is the difference between being a good full back and being a world class full back, take that ability away from people and you immediately take the advantage of a better player away.

Finn Russell was reckless in that challenge, why are people trying to defend it ? He knew what he was doing, the contest was lost and he chose to take Biggar out, that is the long and short of it, at least John Davies tried to contest the ball he was yellowed for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWIOPJIZpvc&t=0m39s

LordDowlais, is Russell looking at the ball as he's coming forward?

yes he was. actually seeing this again it shouldn't have been a yellow card. he was under the ball, biggar jumped , biggar landed on a stationary player. biggar dangerous play !

if you look carefully, laidlaw was actually obstructing russells view, and thats why i think he thought he didn't need to jump. this was a bad decision by the ref, no yellow.

LordDowlais wrote:

reallybored wrote:LordDowlais, is Russell looking at the ball as he's coming forward?

He was not looking at the ball when he knew he would not win the contest, on what planet would you try and duck under somebody, he knew what he was doing and he was taking Biggar out in the air whilst he was still firmly both feet planted on the ground.

So he isn't looking at the ball in that image?

BamBam wrote:Well it was either be completely smashed in the head with both of Biggar's knees, or try and duck out of it. By the time he stopped looking at the ball and saw Biggar, that was the only option

Yeah right 'o. He was reckless and he could have broken dan Biggars neck, thats a red card all day long. He could have easily moved out of the way, if you are reckless then you should get punished accordingly, but for some reason on here we have people defending it, people are even trying to make out that Dan Biggar was at fault for it, and whilst they are at it, they are bringing an ex Welsh international into the mix to have a pop at as well, you honestly do have to laugh at some people on here.

reallybored wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

reallybored wrote:LordDowlais, is Russell looking at the ball as he's coming forward?

He was not looking at the ball when he knew he would not win the contest, on what planet would you try and duck under somebody, he knew what he was doing and he was taking Biggar out in the air whilst he was still firmly both feet planted on the ground.

So he isn't looking at the ball in that image?

Yes, but when he knew the contest was lost he just ran forward at Biggar.

reallybored wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

reallybored wrote:LordDowlais, is Russell looking at the ball as he's coming forward?

He was not looking at the ball when he knew he would not win the contest, on what planet would you try and duck under somebody, he knew what he was doing and he was taking Biggar out in the air whilst he was still firmly both feet planted on the ground.

So he isn't looking at the ball in that image?

he was but he definitely looked at the Wales guy before the collision and after he glanced at him he turned his back. He should have tried to catch the Wales guy and bring him down safely.

Jonathan Davies' card was absurd. How you can be penalised for taking a player out in the air, when the player lands squarely on both feet is utterly beyond me.
Russell could have stopped and put his arms out to hold Biggar, but he turned the shoulder and went through him, there's no debate for me, straight red.
All players lift their knees to protect themselves, if you're also competing for the ball, you won't be kneed in the head , if you're taking the player out, you'll get kneed in the head. Simple.

LordDowlais wrote:

reallybored wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

reallybored wrote:LordDowlais, is Russell looking at the ball as he's coming forward?

He was not looking at the ball when he knew he would not win the contest, on what planet would you try and duck under somebody, he knew what he was doing and he was taking Biggar out in the air whilst he was still firmly both feet planted on the ground.

So he isn't looking at the ball in that image?

Yes, but when he knew the contest was lost he just ran forward at Biggar.

He hasn't take his eyes off the ball, so how do you know he thinks the contest is lost?

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:Well it was either be completely smashed in the head with both of Biggar's knees, or try and duck out of it. By the time he stopped looking at the ball and saw Biggar, that was the only option

Yeah right 'o. He was reckless and he could have broken dan Biggars neck, thats a red card all day long. He could have easily moved out of the way, if you are reckless then you should get punished accordingly, but for some reason on here we have people defending it, people are even trying to make out that Dan Biggar was at fault for it, and whilst they are at it, they are bringing an ex Welsh international into the mix to have a pop at as well, you honestly do have to laugh at some people on here.

omg really thats is one eyed i mean come on !!

here are the rules

Law 10.4(e)
Dangerous tackling.
A player must not tackle an opponent whose feet are off the ground.

r u suggesting he was attempting to tackle ? no he was attempting to catch the ball with both feet on the ground.

Law 10.4(j)
Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst
that player's feet are still off the ground such that the player's head and/or upper body come
into contact with the ground is dangerous play.

and this ?

seriously thus was a definite travesty of justice.

GunsGerms wrote:

reallybored wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

reallybored wrote:LordDowlais, is Russell looking at the ball as he's coming forward?

He was not looking at the ball when he knew he would not win the contest, on what planet would you try and duck under somebody, he knew what he was doing and he was taking Biggar out in the air whilst he was still firmly both feet planted on the ground.

So he isn't looking at the ball in that image?

he was but he definitely looked at the Wales guy before the collision and after he glanced at him he turned his back. He should have tried to catch the Wales guy and bring him down safely.

Thank you GunsGerms, some sense at last, players are professional and they know the laws, he was reckless, he could have caused serious injury, red card all day long.

LordDowlais wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

reallybored wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

reallybored wrote:LordDowlais, is Russell looking at the ball as he's coming forward?

He was not looking at the ball when he knew he would not win the contest, on what planet would you try and duck under somebody, he knew what he was doing and he was taking Biggar out in the air whilst he was still firmly both feet planted on the ground.

So he isn't looking at the ball in that image?

he was but he definitely looked at the Wales guy before the collision and after he glanced at him he turned his back. He should have tried to catch the Wales guy and bring him down safely.

Thank you GunsGerms, some sense at last, players are professional and they know the laws, he was reckless, he could have caused serious injury, red card all day long.

why should a player who was competing to catch the ball from the ground catch the welsh player and bring him to ground. who is to say the welsh player would catch the ball ffs. !

and see above for the rules

alive555 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:Well it was either be completely smashed in the head with both of Biggar's knees, or try and duck out of it. By the time he stopped looking at the ball and saw Biggar, that was the only option

Yeah right 'o. He was reckless and he could have broken dan Biggars neck, thats a red card all day long. He could have easily moved out of the way, if you are reckless then you should get punished accordingly, but for some reason on here we have people defending it, people are even trying to make out that Dan Biggar was at fault for it, and whilst they are at it, they are bringing an ex Welsh international into the mix to have a pop at as well, you honestly do have to laugh at some people on here.

omg really thats is one eyed i mean come on !!

here are the rules

Law 10.4(e)
Dangerous tackling.
A player must not tackle an opponent whose feet are off the ground.

r u suggesting he was attempting to tackle ? no he was attempting to catch the ball with both feet on the ground.
Law 10.4(j)
Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst
that player's feet are still off the ground such that the player's head and/or upper body come
into contact with the ground is dangerous play.

and this ?

seriously thus was a definite travesty of justice.

If that was the case then he should have waited either waited for him to land, or stop running altogether, he had lost the contest for the ball, he was reckless and could have seriously injured Dan Biggar, red card all day. Unless you are like the other bitters on here and are saying it was Dan Biggars fault and HE should have been punished, how dare he try and jump for the ball.

Funny how LordDowlais hasn't been since the 6th of Feb, must have forgotten his WiFi password before today, jolly good to see you back though, I've missed your completely impartial posts

GunsGerms wrote:

reallybored wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

reallybored wrote:LordDowlais, is Russell looking at the ball as he's coming forward?

He was not looking at the ball when he knew he would not win the contest, on what planet would you try and duck under somebody, he knew what he was doing and he was taking Biggar out in the air whilst he was still firmly both feet planted on the ground.

So he isn't looking at the ball in that image?

he was but he definitely looked at the Wales guy before the collision and after he glanced at him he turned his back. He should have tried to catch the Wales guy and bring him down safely.

Watch the clip, that image is a split-second before the contact.

In that split-second, you believe he should/could have caught, yes CAUGHT, a 90kg man with forward momentum and who's knees are at head height.  If you think that is even possible, you're mental.

LordDowlais wrote:

alive555 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:Well it was either be completely smashed in the head with both of Biggar's knees, or try and duck out of it. By the time he stopped looking at the ball and saw Biggar, that was the only option

Yeah right 'o. He was reckless and he could have broken dan Biggars neck, thats a red card all day long. He could have easily moved out of the way, if you are reckless then you should get punished accordingly, but for some reason on here we have people defending it, people are even trying to make out that Dan Biggar was at fault for it, and whilst they are at it, they are bringing an ex Welsh international into the mix to have a pop at as well, you honestly do have to laugh at some people on here.

omg really thats is one eyed i mean come on !!

here are the rules

Law 10.4(e)
Dangerous tackling.
A player must not tackle an opponent whose feet are off the ground.  

r u suggesting he was attempting to tackle ? no he was attempting to catch the ball with both feet on the ground.
Law 10.4(j)
Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst
that player's feet are still off the ground such that the player's head and/or upper body come
into contact with the ground is dangerous play.

and this ?

seriously thus was a definite travesty of justice.

If that was the case then he should have waited either waited for him to land, or stop running altogether, he had lost the contest for the ball, he was reckless and could have seriously injured Dan Biggar, red card all day. Unless you are like the other bitters on here and are saying it was Dan Biggars fault and HE should have been punished, how dare he try and jump for the ball.

No-one is saying it is Bigger fault - there is a debate going on asking if jumping for the ball is going to cause an serious issue with two players coming together at pace

In real time, you can see that Russel was running to the ball, at the last moment saw biggar in the air and had no time to move away and looked to protect himself. In low montion it looks worst.

I am ok with a yellow, as a reckless mistake - however to say red card all the way is really a bit silly

reallybored wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

reallybored wrote:LordDowlais, is Russell looking at the ball as he's coming forward?

He was not looking at the ball when he knew he would not win the contest, on what planet would you try and duck under somebody, he knew what he was doing and he was taking Biggar out in the air whilst he was still firmly both feet planted on the ground.

So he isn't looking at the ball in that image?

No he's look at Biggar's ego....

lostinwales wrote:

reallybored wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

reallybored wrote:LordDowlais, is Russell looking at the ball as he's coming forward?

He was not looking at the ball when he knew he would not win the contest, on what planet would you try and duck under somebody, he knew what he was doing and he was taking Biggar out in the air whilst he was still firmly both feet planted on the ground.

So he isn't looking at the ball in that image?

No he's look at Biggar's ego....

lol

lets stop competing in the air, and the scrum and if a player gets a knock on the head we should TMO that too. How about we play the game, no ref on the field, and then just TMO the entire replay that way we can prove every point with interminable replays and keep the H&S knobs chipper.

LordDowlais wrote:

alive555 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:Well it was either be completely smashed in the head with both of Biggar's knees, or try and duck out of it. By the time he stopped looking at the ball and saw Biggar, that was the only option

Yeah right 'o. He was reckless and he could have broken dan Biggars neck, thats a red card all day long. He could have easily moved out of the way, if you are reckless then you should get punished accordingly, but for some reason on here we have people defending it, people are even trying to make out that Dan Biggar was at fault for it, and whilst they are at it, they are bringing an ex Welsh international into the mix to have a pop at as well, you honestly do have to laugh at some people on here.

omg really thats is one eyed i mean come on !!

here are the rules

Law 10.4(e)
Dangerous tackling.
A player must not tackle an opponent whose feet are off the ground.  

r u suggesting he was attempting to tackle ? no he was attempting to catch the ball with both feet on the ground.
Law 10.4(j)
Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst
that player's feet are still off the ground such that the player's head and/or upper body come
into contact with the ground is dangerous play.

and this ?

seriously thus was a definite travesty of justice.

If that was the case then he should have waited either waited for him to land, or stop running altogether, he had lost the contest for the ball, he was reckless and could have seriously injured Dan Biggar, red card all day. Unless you are like the other bitters on here and are saying it was Dan Biggars fault and HE should have been punished, how dare he try and jump for the ball.

your now sounding like a wum. i didnt suggest biggar shouldnt jump, im suggesting russell absolutley did not need to get out the way as he was competing for the ball ON THE GROUND.

ur suggesting he gets out the way and see whether biggar catches it ? i mean its sounding as ridiculous as your argument is. its also contrary to the rules which u understandably avoided to refer. thats what counts, nothing else.

also as i said above im pretty sure biggar and or russell had laidlaw in the middle making it hard to see the opposition player. no doubt you have already noticed this. or probably not....
either way it changes nothing it wasnt a foul under the rules; end of story.

I actually agree with LD and GG on this. Russell had two options: (i) compete for the ball in the air (in which case all is fair game), or (ii) time the run and look to wrap up/smash Biggar on landing (i.e. once his feet have touched the ground). He's looked up at the ball, realised Biggar was going aerial and then simply turned his back whilst moving forwards. I'm sorry, but that was reckless (i.e. he didn't intend what happened but by his course of action must have known that the consequential harm to Biggar was likely).

The debate about rule changes is perfectly valid though, and there's a debate to be had around whether players should go aerial at their own risk. Problem is that taking the legs out from under a player in the air, whether deliberate (not the case here) or recklessly (as I believe was the case here) has the potential to cause serious neck injury, and as such needs to be outlawed. On the flip side leading with your studs whilst going up for the ball is also dangerous play and should be penalised.

Whilst players are permitted to jump, they should be immune from contact other than from players also jumping to compete for the ball.

JD2's offence was harder to call. I'm not sure if Lamont pushed him, but I didn't think he was nudged at the time. I think Jackson carded him to appear consistent, but I'm not sure if the offences were entirely the same.

Just my view of course.

reallybored wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

reallybored wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

reallybored wrote:LordDowlais, is Russell looking at the ball as he's coming forward?

He was not looking at the ball when he knew he would not win the contest, on what planet would you try and duck under somebody, he knew what he was doing and he was taking Biggar out in the air whilst he was still firmly both feet planted on the ground.

So he isn't looking at the ball in that image?

he was but he definitely looked at the Wales guy before the collision and after he glanced at him he turned his back. He should have tried to catch the Wales guy and bring him down safely.

Watch the clip, that image is a split-second before the contact.

In that split-second, you believe he should/could have caught, yes CAUGHT, a 90kg man with forward momentum and who's knees are at head height.  If you think that is even possible, you're mental.

If you watch the clip again you will see that he definitely looks at the Welsh guy before he spins around. There may not have been much he could do but by doing nothing at all he only had himself to blame based on the precedents out there. That isnt to say I think it was malicious or that I agree with such decisions but it is clear that he was aware of the guy flying through the air.

Notch wrote:Absolutely ridiculous/insane if anything comes of this;

http://scottishrugby.org/news/15/02/16/disciplinary-update-finn-russell-citing

I posted elsewhere that the same happened with an almost identical incident in a Blues v Scarlets game when Liam Williams took Cuthbert out in the air. I my memory serves me right Williams got yellow carded in the game and a retrospective red and 3 match ban following the citing.

IMO the yellow was sufficient punishment (on both occasions) as Russell did not appear to intend to up=end Biggar. But based on severity of incident if the Davies incident where Beattie lands on his feet was a yellow, they maybe Russell should have had a red?

Ruseel should not be cited for this, utter poppycock. He might get a dig in the ribs for laughing about it with JD2 on the bench or smiling broadly after the game though. No side frustrates me more than Scotland. Always make chances, look aggressive up front, and their backs can't execute. 17 pens v Wales, should have taken the points like you would have done when Patterson was playing.

Cotter is definitely making progress but it needs to see results pre RWC as scots have a sniff at the quarters.