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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by McLaren Fri 06 Mar 2015, 11:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

Super

I saw the first two sets and a bit, then went out to get dinner. Wish I had stuck around to watch it.
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Post by McLaren Mon 23 Mar 2015, 2:24 pm

super_realist wrote:Shows a distinct lack of skill and intelligence to get repeated red cards though.

I have never been convinced that Gerrard is anywhere near as good as the hype surrounding him would suggest he is.


Also, is anyone able to explain to me why Jordan Henderson is thought of as anything other than very average?
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Post by MustPuttBetter Mon 23 Mar 2015, 2:27 pm

Mac, until about a month ago I would have agreed with you but Henderson has been fantastic of late
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Post by super_realist Mon 23 Mar 2015, 2:31 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:Shows a distinct lack of skill and intelligence to get repeated red cards though.

I have never been convinced that Gerrard is anywhere near as good as the hype surrounding him would suggest he is.


Also, is anyone able to explain to me why Jordan Henderson is thought of as anything other than very average?

You could say that about most footballers Mac, they are without doubt the most over-rated sportspeople on the planet, especially if they play for England.

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Post by MustPuttBetter Mon 23 Mar 2015, 2:41 pm

I do think there is more scope for players of team sports to be under or overrated than non team sports.
In tennis, golf etc if you play better than the other guy you probably win, if not you don't. You can be judged by your wins and losses.
But in football you can play better than a number of the opposition and lose. You can be an outstanding player and win little (Alan Shearer). So judgement comes into it as you cannot be rated by wins and losses. So yes, football will probably have more overrated (and underrated) players than most other sports

I'm not sure about the England bit. Ibrahimovic, Balotelli to name just two are massively overrated
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Post by McLaren Mon 23 Mar 2015, 2:47 pm

Super

That is another argument, my point is Gerrard hasn't been a great.
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Post by Davie Mon 23 Mar 2015, 2:56 pm

Slippy G is vastly overrated. He's just a less clumsy version of Emelyn Hughes

And at least Shearer won a premiership which Slippy G hasn't done

There's a good meme going around today showing a picture of Jamie Redknap with a couple of his quotes ... "What Costa did is a disgrace..." and "I've got sympathy for Gerrard, just a moment of madness"

What a hypocrite!

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Post by pedro Mon 23 Mar 2015, 3:17 pm

Stupid by Gerred. But at least he was man enough to admit it.
Balotelli should've seen red as well, so should Man Us Jones.

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Post by super_realist Mon 23 Mar 2015, 3:20 pm

MustPuttBetter wrote:I do think there is more scope for players of team sports to be under or overrated than non team sports.
In tennis, golf etc if you play better than the other guy you probably win, if not you don't. You can be judged by your wins and losses.
But in football you can play better than a number of the opposition and lose. You can be an outstanding player and win little (Alan Shearer). So judgement comes into it as you cannot be rated by wins and losses. So yes, football will probably have more overrated (and underrated) players than most other sports

I'm not sure about the England bit. Ibrahimovic, Balotelli to name just two are massively overrated

I usually try and think how a player would be rated if they played for Finland, for example, would anyone be fawning over the likes of Shaw, Oxlade Chamberlain, Barkley etc if they were Finnish and not English. Doubt it.

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Post by McLaren Mon 23 Mar 2015, 3:45 pm

oxlade chamberlain would get praise regardless of nationality. As for shaw, man utd do seem to have bought the wrong southampton full back.

But Barkley, do even the English still think he is anything other than a bad Jordan Henderson impersonator?
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Post by beninho Mon 23 Mar 2015, 4:18 pm

I would guess if Shaw, Oxlade Chamberlain or Barkley was Finnish then the Finnish press would be fawning over them.

I think the Ox is brilliant with so much potential, he could play centre midfield. I think it is to early to write off Shaw and Barkley though, both have talent but need to work hard. Remember when everyone though Ronaldo was a show pony that would not last long. Or some said that Man Uted should of got rid after his spat with Rooney. Youngsters get overhyped, some shine some fail and most just middle. But thats sport.

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Post by super_realist Mon 23 Mar 2015, 4:28 pm

beninho wrote:I would guess if Shaw, Oxlade Chamberlain or Barkley was Finnish then the Finnish press would be fawning over them.

I think the Ox is brilliant with so much potential, he could play centre midfield. I think it is to early to write off Shaw and Barkley though, both have talent but need to work hard. Remember when everyone though Ronaldo was a show pony that would not last long. Or some said that Man Uted should of got rid after his spat with Rooney. Youngsters get overhyped, some shine some fail and most just middle. But thats sport.

The point being we don't furnish players from the ROW with the same embellishment we do with those in this country. We somehow expect other countries to rate them as highly (the old "we've got a better team than them on paper" nonsense), but we don't really rate theirs, if we've heard of them at all.

So, when someone like Barkley is hailed as the next big thing, I always try to think, if this guy wasn't from here, would he be rated as highly, almost always, the answer is no.


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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 23 Mar 2015, 4:38 pm

But by the same token, British football is disadvantaged by so many high-price foreign players barely going through the motions, but keeping young GB&I footballers out of the side.
Good to see guys like Dyche and, to a lesser extent, Bruce bucking that trend. Hasn't done them much good mind.

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Post by Davie Mon 23 Mar 2015, 7:53 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:And give Skrtl one too.

I now understand this comment. I didn't see the incident at the time but now I've seen it and the FA have charged him, it is certainly worthy of a long ban

The other sour side of this incident though is that De Gea went down (or stayed down) after the initial stamp - then got up to confront Skrtel .. then went down again when he "remembered" how hurt he was.

Still a stamp - still worthy of a retrospective ban - but De Gea did himself no favours

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Post by puligny Mon 23 Mar 2015, 9:36 pm

Gerard widely praised for his apology. Did he actually apologise to Herrara, or just his own kin?

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Post by MustPuttBetter Mon 23 Mar 2015, 10:08 pm

I think he was apologizing to his team mates and fans for letting the side down, rather than to Herrera for reacting to the studs up dangerous tackle to which he lost his temper and retaliated stupidly
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Post by puligny Mon 23 Mar 2015, 10:15 pm

Oh didn't realise Herrara had fouled and Liverpool got a free kick? Kind of sums up so much about football. Used to love it, now can't watch it!

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Post by MustPuttBetter Mon 23 Mar 2015, 10:23 pm

Herrera got booked for the tackle. No probs if you didn't realise
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Post by super_realist Tue 24 Mar 2015, 10:21 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/32030050

Well done Darren, the worlds most boring and uninspiring man, with the dreariest voice.

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Post by Roller_Coaster Tue 24 Mar 2015, 10:47 am

super_realist wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/32030050

Well done Darren, the worlds most boring and uninspiring man, with the dreariest voice.

And Steven Gerrard isn't exactly better either.

drumroll

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Post by JAS Tue 24 Mar 2015, 11:44 am

super_realist wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/32030050

Well done Darren, the worlds most boring and uninspiring man, with the dreariest voice.

Struggling to even see a comparison between the SAF motivational speech that McGinley managed to arrange and one from Gerrard...Gerrard??? FFS Darren what ARE you thinking (I wonder if Gerrard is maybe due to replace Dettori in the next Your Golf Travel advert). Can you imagine Gerrard...
"Aah right aah right lads, calm down calm down, just don't slip and don't get sent off, thats it really,  now go out there and merder 'em like"

Leaving no stone unturned in the search for that extra motivating factor is fine, even if it only makes 0.1% difference to maybe a couple of players. Gerrard just wouldn't be top of my list to deliver it, infact he wouldn't even be on the list. If you're going to entertain such an idea then ask SAF again, or somebody like Woodward or Brailsford, or away from the coach/managerial side of things go for an achiever like Hoy or Redgrave.


Last edited by JAS on Tue 24 Mar 2015, 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)

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Post by MontysMerkin Tue 24 Mar 2015, 11:54 am

Seems to me to be just trying to get some publicity - can't be for real surely...
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Post by super_realist Tue 24 Mar 2015, 12:19 pm

JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/32030050

Well done Darren, the worlds most boring and uninspiring man, with the dreariest voice.

Struggling to even see a comparison between the SAF motivational speech that McGinley managed to arrange and one from Gerrard...Gerrard??? FFS Darren what ARE you thinking (I wonder if Gerrard is maybe due to replace Dettori in the next Your Golf Travel advert). Can you imagine Gerrard...
"Aah right aah right lads, calm down calm down, just don't slip and don't get sent off, thats it really,  now go out there and merder 'em like"

Leaving no stone unturned in the search for that extra motivating factor is fine, even if it only makes 0.1% difference to maybe a couple of players. Gerrard just wouldn't be top of my list to deliver it, infact he wouldn't even be on the list. If you're going to entertain such an idea then ask SAF again, or somebody like Woodward or Brailsford, or away from the coach/managerial side of things go for an achiever like Hoy or Redgrave.

SAF yes, Woodward, not really. All he did was win a Rugby World Cup and he's not especially inspiring, and Rugby means nothing to the Europeans.

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Post by pedro Tue 24 Mar 2015, 12:35 pm

Is is 1st of April yet or did Darren have too much at the pub? Gerrard is famous for never winning the premiership, so is the obvious choice. DUUUH! Why not ask Hunter Mahan?
Redgrave?? "Eat some steoroids and pull them oars"?
SAF again yes. No other brits could do it and none of the others mentioned are known outside the UK.
Mourinho could also do it, but I doubt he'd have time to travel to the US at that time.

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Post by JAS Tue 24 Mar 2015, 12:41 pm

I don't know, I don't think it's important what sport they come from if they are winners (besides the Italians and the French are familiar enough with rugby). Woodward is certainly different in style to SAF but that doesn't automatically translate to uninspiring. Having said that I'd rather listen to Fergie, think Brailsford's quite a shrewd character too.

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Post by JAS Tue 24 Mar 2015, 12:43 pm

Mourinho would be good at it, who knows what he'll be doing in a year and a half's time.

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Post by super_realist Tue 24 Mar 2015, 12:47 pm

Mourinho, not sure, too polarising. I really can't stand his "faux-deepness".

Woodward won one thing, ages ago, that few people are interested in, who means nothing to the European players and was only up against 2-3 other countries capable of winning it.

More of right time right place, than a real inspirational leader.


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Post by McLaren Tue 24 Mar 2015, 12:59 pm

Pedro

Not heard the Redgrave on PED's rumor before?
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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 24 Mar 2015, 1:09 pm

Mac,
Surprised you haven't put forward Michael Carrick's name for DC to consider.

Can't understand why he has to bring in someone from outside the golf world, perhaps Tom Watson might be a good choice?

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Post by JAS Tue 24 Mar 2015, 1:11 pm

Yep, realistically the RWC comes down to the big 3 Southern Hemisphere nations and the one form horse (maybe 2) from the Northern which in 2003 was England and arguably the French as well. Then again the Ryder Cup is 50/50 and we're away from home next time, like England were in 2003.
Don't get me wrong I personally don't like arrogant c-bomb but I do recognise he did a good job of turning that side into World Cup winners.

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Post by MontysMerkin Tue 24 Mar 2015, 1:13 pm

Farage is the man for the job! Pint and a fag - that'd sort them damn Europeans out...
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Post by pedro Tue 24 Mar 2015, 1:16 pm

Why not Paul Gascoigne then?

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Post by JAS Tue 24 Mar 2015, 1:17 pm

I'm sure he doesn't have to Kwini, he's just looked at what McGinley did and thought. "Ah that might be a good idea, that worked well when Paul brought in Fergie" " let me take a good idea and urine all over it"

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Post by super_realist Tue 24 Mar 2015, 1:17 pm

I don't think that would impress the Europeans, and probably not many of the Brits, they seem more of a football mentality than egg chuckers.

What they need is inspiration from someone who has continued to win competition after competition and has fought against complacency.

That's what I see as the Europeans main obstacle, they've won too many of the last 10, rather than a flash in the pan winner.

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Post by incontinentia Tue 24 Mar 2015, 1:18 pm

Roger Federer anyone?

Has the achievement credentials but not sure of his motivational speaking prowess.
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Post by super_realist Tue 24 Mar 2015, 1:21 pm

incontinentia wrote:Roger Federer anyone?

Has the achievement credentials but not sure of his motivational speaking prowess.

Too smug and self indulgent.

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Post by JAS Tue 24 Mar 2015, 1:27 pm

super_realist wrote:I don't think that would impress the Europeans, and probably not many of the Brits, they seem more of a football mentality than egg chuckers.

What they need is inspiration from someone who has continued to win competition after competition and has fought against complacency.

That's what I see as the Europeans main obstacle, they've won too many of the last 10, rather than a flash in the pan winner.

Fergie it is then, maybe he should take Michael Carrick along as his understudy :-p

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Post by super_realist Tue 24 Mar 2015, 1:31 pm

America could do worse than get Jurgen Klinsman instead of the turgid old veterans, he's virtually American these days (plus his wife is called Debbie "9" Chin)

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Post by beninho Tue 24 Mar 2015, 1:34 pm

Redgrave is surely the most boring man in sport. He would be incapable of getting the team hyped up. I do feel sorry for Pinsent he nevers seems to get the accolades, and seems a hell of a lot more interesting.

Maybe he should get Mcginley along to give them a pep talk?

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Post by pedro Tue 24 Mar 2015, 1:43 pm

They need to bring in someone from a team sport. It’s not like individualists like Woods, Mickelson, Watson et al have been inspirational? And why would it be interesting to hear what a rower has to say?

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Post by McLaren Tue 24 Mar 2015, 1:58 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
Surprised you haven't put forward Michael Carrick's name for DC to consider.

Can't understand why he has to bring in someone from outside the golf world, perhaps Tom Watson might be a good choice?


I have a new theory, those who understand football rate Carrick very highly and those who don't rate him don't understand football.
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Post by beninho Tue 24 Mar 2015, 2:26 pm

The thing with michael carrick is that while he is decent, the finals he played against Barcelona he came off looking like he did not know what hit him. He was so outclassed in midfield. I remember reading something along the lines that at the end of the game he had twisted blood as he was unable to keep up with play.

Not the only player to be out performed by Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets, but it takes him away from being top class. He is a good player, nothing more or less.

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Post by pedro Tue 24 Mar 2015, 2:28 pm

Johan Cruyff is an avid golfer. Don't know if he's too acid - but he could probably say a relevant thing or two.
Der Kaiser is a golfer as well, but probably too far up his own behind these days to say something relevant.

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Post by MustPuttBetter Tue 24 Mar 2015, 2:36 pm

McLaren wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
Surprised you haven't put forward Michael Carrick's name for DC to consider.

Can't understand why he has to bring in someone from outside the golf world, perhaps Tom Watson might be a good choice?


I have a new theory, those who understand football rate Carrick very highly and those who don't rate him don't understand football.

Ah the old 'if you agree with me you're clever and if you don't you're not' argument
Right out of page 1 of playground debating techniques.....
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Post by McLaren Tue 24 Mar 2015, 2:57 pm

Since when did we carry out anything on here that resembled debate.

I am sure a quick check of Carricks stats will provide all the evidence you need.
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Post by Roller_Coaster Tue 24 Mar 2015, 3:03 pm

I actually do rate Carrick very highly.

(so nyah nyah ner nyah nyah)

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Post by MustPuttBetter Tue 24 Mar 2015, 3:04 pm

Mac's definition of debate - 'When people agree with me'. You're quite right, not much of that at all

I think you're best left to your intense self proclaimed understanding of football via the interpretation of stats.
The rest of us can play it and watch it and make up our minds on players.

"Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures"

Out of pure self punishment, which stat is it that you believe proves Carrick's best midfielder ever tag?
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Post by McLaren Tue 24 Mar 2015, 3:09 pm

mustputt

Whatever our respective definitions of debate are I doubt the form of argument that is practiced on this forum matches either of them.
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Post by MustPuttBetter Tue 24 Mar 2015, 3:11 pm

Nice dodge
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Post by McLaren Tue 24 Mar 2015, 3:13 pm

Thanks, just thought I would school you on some better debating styles. boxing
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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by MustPuttBetter Tue 24 Mar 2015, 3:19 pm

I have been schooled Cry
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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread - Page 2 Empty Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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