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Red Cards in Belfast that aren't

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Red Cards in Belfast that aren't Empty Red Cards in Belfast that aren't

Post by Chunky Norwich on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 9:17 pm

What's that now................4 red cards that have been given to Ulster after the match by citing panels but not given by officials at the time?

a) How many minutes on the field should Ulter have been down a man but weren't?
b) What is it that makes officials not give the proper action at the time at the Kingspan stadium?

Something about that place eh?

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Post by clivemcl on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 9:25 pm

I think the red not being given in the game is generally compensated for in the ban length, no?

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 9:28 pm

clivemcl wrote:I think the red not being given in the game is generally compensated for in the ban length, no?

Do you think the likes of Cardiff and Scarlets would agree?

Actually I've just realised your post may be a pisstake? Please tell me it's pisstake?

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Post by clivemcl on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 9:31 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Actually I've just realised your post may be a pisstake? Please tell me it's  pisstake?

Which answer would cheer you up? You seem like you always need cheered up.

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 9:32 pm

clivemcl wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Actually I've just realised your post may be a pisstake? Please tell me it's  pisstake?

Which answer would cheer you up? You seem like you always need cheered up.

Oh my god it's not a pisstake.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 9:33 pm

Lets not mention Liam Williams' record to chunky, he might have a timid wimper to himself, he might go full blub on us.

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Post by carpet baboon on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 9:55 pm

Think chunky has some issues. He is funny in the I wouldn't want to be alone with him way.

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Post by Cardiff Dave on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 10:11 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Think chunky has some issues. He is funny in the I wouldn't want to be alone with him way.

Only "some"? More than that shewerly? He is Welsh I understand, like me, so must have a truck load.

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 10:14 pm

So this topic isn't worth discussing then?

I see.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Wed 01 Apr 2015, 10:43 pm

It's a conspiracy.

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 8:58 am

Just a coincidence then.

ok

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Post by The Saint on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 10:55 am

Pete330v2 wrote:Lets not mention Liam Williams' record to chunky, he might have a timid wimper to himself, he might go full blub on us.

If you're being serious then his record isn't bad tbh.

To answer the OP, I think this just might show the incompetence of the Pro12 refs, again. We seriously need more decent officials.

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 11:02 am

The Saint wrote:
To answer the OP, I think this just might show the incompetence of the Pro12 refs, again. We seriously need more decent officials.

Thanks for actually answering. But I would expect this to happen at all grounds if this were the case. Ulster seem to be very much an outlier n this regard. Why do so many officials (including the TMO) get the decisions wrong on the night at the Kingspan stadium and have to be corrected by a citing panel at a later date?

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 11:05 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:Why do so many officials (including the TMO) get the decisions wrong on the night at the Kingspan stadium and have to be corrected by a citing panel at a later date?.

Is it always the same TMO at the Kingspan stadium ? I know the one on Friday was from Ireland, I cannot remember if he was from Ulster though, but it could be a case of a dodgy TMO.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 11:07 am

The Saint wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:Lets not mention Liam Williams' record to chunky, he might have a timid wimper to himself, he might go full blub on us.

If you're being serious then his record isn't bad tbh.

To answer the OP, I think this just might show the incompetence of the Pro12 refs, again. We seriously need more decent officials.

Nope, I was only kidding Saint. Williams is the kind of player I like, hot headed as he is. He supremely skilled and way more physical than his frame would suggest.

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Post by The Great Aukster on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:12 pm

The Saint wrote:To answer the OP, I think this just might show the incompetence of the Pro12 refs, again. We seriously need more decent officials.

I agree there has to be a better standard of officiating, but the three involved, Nigel Owens, Ben Whitehouse and Marius Mitrea certainly aren't the worst on the roster. The Owens game was in Edinburgh so it isn't anything to do with the TMO either.

Rather than different independent referees in different games in different countries getting it consistently "wrong" with Ulster, it is far more plausible that the singular body known as the Citing Commission is the common denominator in the decisions being overruled. Why they should target Ulster for this special treatment is anybody's guess.

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:15 pm

The Great Aukster wrote: Why they should target Ulster for this special treatment is anybody's guess.

So you think Ulster are being targeted do you ?

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:18 pm

The Great Aukster wrote: Why they should target Ulster for this special treatment is anybody's guess.

I'll have a go............perhaps it's because they keep commiting acts of foul play deemed worthy of red cards?

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Post by PenfroPete on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:33 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
The Saint wrote:To answer the OP, I think this just might show the incompetence of the Pro12 refs, again. We seriously need more decent officials.

I agree there has to be a better standard of officiating, but the three involved, Nigel Owens, Ben Whitehouse and Marius Mitrea certainly aren't the worst on the roster. The Owens game was in Edinburgh so it isn't anything to do with the TMO either.

Rather than different independent referees in different games in different countries getting it consistently "wrong" with Ulster, it is far more plausible that the singular body known as the Citing Commission is the common denominator in the decisions being overruled. Why they should target Ulster for this special treatment is anybody's guess.

Just for clarity,as I understand it the Citing CommissionER makes the citing.

For the Ulster v Blues game it was Citing Commissioner: Eddie Wigglesworth (IRFU), for the Edinburgh v Ulster games it was Citing Commissioner: Paul Minto (SRU). Generally speaking the Commissioner is from the 'home' country

What I could find about the Citing Process - http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/12205.php

"The Citing Commissioners in all domestic competitions are selected on their independence and experience and appointed by the respective Unions. In each of the RaboDirect PRO12 countries, independent Citing Commisssioners are appointed for matches, avoiding where possible the Citing Commissioner's own club, province or region. This is similar to the French Top 14 and England's Aviva Premiership.

'The independent Citing Commissioners in the RaboDirect PRO12 attend the matches and take note of any indicators of possible foul play. They can then seek further information from TV, medical, team officials and players immediately after each game. The independent Citing Commissioner has a maximum of 48 hours from the final whistle, to notify the Tournament Disciplinary Officer of a citing. The independent Citing Commissioner will have reviewed the match DVD, usually with extra TV angles, to confirm his decision."


So it's an individual who decides to cite



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Post by SecretFly on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:37 pm

Conspiracy by the Citing Commission, seems like. AntiPro12adites!

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Post by InjuredYetAgain on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:39 pm

I think it is a bit harsh to blame the TMO. If you watch, nowadays in both the Pro12 and Aviva, the TMO only tends to operate the remote control for the ref who is watching the big screen. It looks liem the ref as often as not makes the decision himself.
And back on to the main question, I would never look upon Ulster as a dirty team nor do I see any sort of favouritism towards them, on or off the pitch. Physical, yes but not dirty. That said, I haven't seen the Patchell incident but most folk do seem to be saying that it was a bad one with no real mitigation

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Post by marty2086 on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:43 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:What's that now................4 red cards that have been given to Ulster after the match by citing panels but not given by officials at the time?

a) How many minutes on the field should Ulter have been down a man but weren't?
b) What is it that makes officials not give the proper action at the time at the Kingspan stadium?

Something about that place eh?

I see the trolls back from under his bridge

When your facts were corrected on another thread did you decide to set up a new one to try and validate your opinions?

There were 4 bans, one of which was a red card during the game, one which wasn't deemed intentional and the lower end of the scale and the Marshall and Williams that were deemed red cards which weren't referred to the TMO, you expect refs to be able to see through players and round corners? Are the folks at Ulster rugby meant to defy physics and logic to suit your inane ramblings and obsession with all things Ulster?

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:43 pm

The citing commissioner doesn't decide if the incidents warrant a red card and ban.

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:43 pm

Can you explain why I am troll please.

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:44 pm

marty2086 wrote: you expect refs to be able to see through players and round corners?

No. But I expect TMOs to review the footage they're asked to and make the right decision.

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:50 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:No. But I expect TMOs to review the footage they're asked to and make the right decision.

Exactly, the same as the Scarlets game, Derek Bevan correctly advised the ref to RED card Gareth Davies. He did not skirt around with it, did not look at it umpteen times, he saw it and called it. This is all we ask for.

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:54 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:No. But I expect TMOs to review the footage they're asked to and make the right decision.

Exactly, the same as the Scarlets game, Derek Bevan correctly advised the ref to RED card Gareth Davies. He did not skirt around with it, did not look at it umpteen times, he saw it and called it. This is all we ask for.

Absolutely. Although that one was more clear cut.

The farce of the John Barclay incident WILL raise questions and suspicions because it was just jaw droppingly incompetent. Thankfully the citing commissioner and panel dealt with it accordingly, although I felt the ban was way too lenient.

Still doesn't answer why the Kingspan seems to be a haven for "dodgy" officiating towards the home side.

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Post by carpet baboon on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:55 pm

Chunky you make me laugh

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:57 pm

Good show.

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:58 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:No. But I expect TMOs to review the footage they're asked to and make the right decision.

Exactly, the same as the Scarlets game, Derek Bevan correctly advised the ref to RED card Gareth Davies. He did not skirt around with it, did not look at it umpteen times, he saw it and called it. This is all we ask for.

Absolutely. Although that one was more clear cut.

The farce of the John Barclay incident WILL raise questions and suspicions because it was just jaw droppingly incompetent. Thankfully the citing commissioner and panel dealt with it accordingly, although I felt the ban was way too lenient.

Still doesn't answer why the Kingspan seems to be a haven for "dodgy" officiating towards the home side.

If you ask me, the Nick Williams one was just as clear cut. It was a cheap shot of the highest order, at least Gareth Davies made no secret of wanting to duke the other guy, if he was not holding his arms he would have punched him not nutted him.

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Post by carpet baboon on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:03 pm

Sorry lord are you praising Davies actions?

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:03 pm

LordDowlais wrote:

If you ask me, the Nick Williams one was just as clear cut.

How he did not see red on the night is baffling. It could have even had a bearing on the result.

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:09 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Sorry lord are you praising Davies actions?

Nope, no way, so please stop making mischief.OK

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Post by marty2086 on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:10 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Can you explain why I am troll please.

Well a few weeks ago you took issue with Ulster seemingly getting things all their own way, never getting bans, games played at a certain time and now there are bans the problems is it should have been red cards

Now when the Ulster thread decided to ignore you you start a new one

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion

Not to mention you reshape the facts of it all to suit your own agenda

(This is called reason and logic, alien concepts I know but try them sometime) Rolling Eyes

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Post by carpet baboon on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:11 pm

Mischief hmmmmm?

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:16 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Now when the Ulster thread decided to ignore you you start a new one

I started this thread yesterday. Since when is starting a thread "trolling"?

Or is it because it shows up some content you and the rest of the Nordie maffia on here don't like?

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Post by Guest on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:18 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Now when the Ulster thread decided to ignore you you start a new one

I started this thread yesterday. Since when is starting a thread "trolling"?

Or is it because it shows up some content you and the rest of the Nordie maffia on here don't like?


Laugh

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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:29 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Now when the Ulster thread decided to ignore you you start a new one

I started this thread yesterday. Since when is starting a thread "trolling"?

Or is it because it shows up some content you and the rest of the Nordie maffia on here don't like?

We own this forum. Just like we own the Pro 12..

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:31 pm

Too true.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:34 pm

"You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."

Reality is nice, Chunky. You should try it sometime. OK

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:36 pm

Reality = http://www.pro12rugby.com/statzone/specsavers_fair_play_league.php#7ZzQ47luPPGrX4gX.97

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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:37 pm

Yes, our disciplinary record is rubbish this year. Everyone acknowledges it. We need to improve it big time. What is your point?

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:38 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yes, our disciplinary record is rubbish this year. Everyone acknowledges it. We need to improve it big time. What is your point?

Read the opening post for goodness sake. Why are the officials at Kingspan getting it wrong on the night, time after time......... and having to have decisions overturned at meetings the week after?

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Post by Guest on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:40 pm

Only 10 cards. We are really only joint 5th angel

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Post by InjuredYetAgain on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:40 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Now when the Ulster thread decided to ignore you you start a new one

I started this thread yesterday. Since when is starting a thread "trolling"?

Or is it because it shows up some content you and the rest of the Nordie maffia on here don't like?

We own this forum. Just like we own the Pro 12..

Hoi Irishman. Wash yer mouth out. When I last checked, we Scots were in our rightful place i.e. 1st

Ok, we are also (very lucky to be) 7th but if I pretend to be the Kingspan TMO, I won't see that bit laughing


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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:40 pm

Because we own the Pro 12.

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:43 pm

I asked this earlier, does the same person do the job of the TMO at the Kingspan every time ?


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Post by Guest on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:43 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yes, our disciplinary record is rubbish this year. Everyone acknowledges it. We need to improve it big time. What is your point?

Read the opening post for goodness sake. Why are the officials at Kingspan getting it wrong on the night, time after time......... and having to have decisions overturned at meetings the week after?

According to that link you posted, we have only had 2 yellows that perhaps should have been red, with only 2 proven reds.

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Post by carpet baboon on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:43 pm

Tell us chunky wahat you want to hear? The refs touch judges and tmo are in the pay of the nordie Mafia? Is that it?

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Post by Chunky Norwich on Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:44 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yes, our disciplinary record is rubbish this year. Everyone acknowledges it. We need to improve it big time. What is your point?

Read the opening post for goodness sake. Why are the officials at Kingspan getting it wrong on the night, time after time......... and having to have decisions overturned at meetings the week after?

According to that link you posted, we have only had 2 yellows that perhaps should have been red, with only 2 proven reds.

Check out the PC column.

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