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Edinburgh, Glasgow and London Scottish Arrivals & Departures

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Post by madmaccas Thu 02 Apr 2015, 1:14 pm

With a few players announcing their departures, and few named to replace them, I thought it'd be useful to have an in-out list.

Also a good place to post any rumours or rumours of rumours.

Let me know if I'm missing anyone?!


Edinburgh


In:

Nasi Manu - Highlanders - Flanker     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DsgMvrYr6I
Will Helu - Coventry Wasps - Wing    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luMTcwgcr5U
Nathan Fowles - Sale - SH              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFWzXXhzeQE
Michael Allen - Ulster - Wing/Centre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHnLKIz0Ecw
Otulea Katoa - Southland - Wing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crq6ZJKaeg4

Duncan Hodge - SRU - Backs Coach

Out:

Tim Visser - Harlequins - Wing
Ollie Atkins - Exeter Chiefs - Lock
Michael Tait - the bar - Centre
Tom Heathcote - Worcester Warriors - FH
Grayson Hart - Glasgow Warriors - SH
Wicus Blaauw - ? - Prop
Brett Thompson - ? -
Nikki Walker - Hawick - Wing


Contract ending:

Hookers: Hilterbrand, Turner
Props: Dickinson, Nel
BR: Leonardi, Du Preez

FH: Bezuidenhout
Centre: Dominguez, Atiga
Wings: Farndale


Glasgow Warriors


In:

Grayson Hart - Edinburgh - SH                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1ReJ_oz1Rk
Mike Blair - Newcastle Falcons - SH             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sWN-M8lQ2o
Keiran Low - London Irish - Lock/Flanker       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qszjBclzxds
Simone Favaro - Treviso - Flanker                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAcEaWGY8yk
Sam Johnson - Queensland Reds - Centre      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J_O4sLMfdc
Greg Peterson - Leicester Tigers - Lock
Taqele Naiyaravoro - NSW Waratahs - Wing  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgSC643wJRI
Javan Sebastian - Scarlets Academy - Prop  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9N4q0zcwTo
Jason Hill - Heriot’s - No.8                         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my_UQoN8DM8
Hugh Blake - Edinburgh? - Flanker             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIIuR-HjFho
Sila Puafisi - Gloucester - Prop                   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXLR_9CXkUs  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqAneyg0Fqw


Dan McFarland - Connacht - Forwards Coach

Out:

Niko Matawalu - Bath - SH
Sean Maitland - London Irish - Wing
John Welsh - Newcastle Falcons - Prop
Dougie Hall - the bar - Hooker
Al Kellock - the bar - Lock
DTH - Scarlets - Wing
Tom Ryder - Northampton - Lock
James Downey - Wasps - Centre
Murray McConnell - Nottingham - Centre
Tommy Spinks - Jersey - Flanker

Shade Munroe - ? - Forwards Coach

Contract ending:

Props: Murray, G.Hunter

SH: Price
FH: Hunter, Lyle
Wings: Hughes
Full Backs: Braid


London Scottish


In:

Drew Locke - Jersey - Centre                 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KcGBGC7FKI
Neale Patrick - Plymouth - Lock              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsi07ANTE04
Russell Weir - Scotland 7's - SH              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agpcYh30H04
David Young - Newport Dragons - Prop    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxIq4nwimCM
Freddie Clarke - Bath - Flanker
Jason Harries - Wales 7's - Centre
Jimmy Litchfield - London Welsh - Prop    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMCPZqsXqHo
James Chisholm - Harlequins - No.8         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl9v5JzpUn0  (scorer of both tries)
Craig Jackson - Hartbury - Full Back         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jXMZE5Xl-k
Rory Bartle - Gloucester - Lock                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWJF0rIYhms
Tyrone Moran - Leinster - Hooker             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he4Bq0Dkdfg
Will Carrick-Smith - Exeter - Lock
Joe Marchant - Harlequins - Centre          https://vine.co/v/O2FBmaU6dD2
Kieran Treadwell - Harlequins - Lock        
James Gibbons - Gloucester - Prop
Season long loan from Bath Rugby
Beno Obano - Bath - Prop                       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwqWvAmmYfw  
Tom Woolstencroft - Bath - Hooker          https://vine.co/v/MTDzbLxOxTM

Peter Richards - LS - Promoted to Head Coach
Tim Payne - London Irish - Forwards Coach


Out:

Adam Preocanin - Ealing Trailfinders - Lock
Gregor Gillanders - Blackheath - Flanker
James Phillips - Bristol - No.8
Jamie Stevenson - Wasps - Scrum Half
Kieran Moffat- returned to New Zealand - Centre
Lovejoy Chawatama - Rosslyn Park - Prop
Mark Lilley - Rosslyn Park - Prop
Matt Hawke - Rosslyn Park - Centre
Mike Doneghan - AS Macon - Wing
Neil Best - Retired - Flanker
PJ Gidlow - Stade Rouennais - Centre
Ross Doneghan - Retired - Flanker
Stewart Maguire - East Grinstead - Prop
Tai Tuisamoa - returned to USA - Flanker

Mike Friday - USA 7's - Head Coach


Last edited by madmaccas on Fri 28 Aug 2015, 12:18 pm; edited 24 times in total

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 02 Apr 2015, 1:41 pm

You can add Will Helu to the "Ins" at Edinburgh.

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Post by cakeordeath Thu 02 Apr 2015, 1:45 pm

Hall is a hooker

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 02 Apr 2015, 1:47 pm

cakeordeath wrote:Hall is a hooker

Well, sort of....

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Post by kilo-doug Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:01 pm

Add Tom Heathcote to the departures list at Edinburgh. Off to Worcester Warriors if I remember rightly.
Still struggling to get my head around Blair to Glasgow though Headscratch

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:05 pm

Welcome Mr Kilo-Doug - great to have more voices on these boards.

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:30 pm

Good thread to start - should the "in's" also include the guys who are moving from the Academies to full time pro roles?
Hall and Kellock are retiring (I imagine Ewan Murray and SLamont might go that way too soon) but it has just struck me that Edinburgh have a relatively young squad with no imminent retirements to add to those who are leaving.
I dunno what point I am trying to make actually .....................
Edinburgh have been particularly quiet. I hope they are keeping a real good signing up their sleeves to be announced over the summer

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Post by madmaccas Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:37 pm

cakeordeath wrote:Hall is a hooker

Quite right!

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Post by madmaccas Thu 02 Apr 2015, 2:49 pm

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Good thread to start - should the "in's" also include the guys who are moving from the Academies to full time pro roles?

Not sure about this. So much of the time they are on dual contracts, end up playing for a prem team and only train a day or so a week with the pros.

I could add in an academy - seniors section. Do you happen to have the names?

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:18 pm

No. You seem to have misunderstood. I am one of those people who come up with great ideas and then lets others do all the hard work Wink taking credit when it goes well but being nowhere to be seen if it goes norks-up.

Seriously, though, did I not read a couple of weeks ago that Fagerson and Darcy Rae (plus otherrs) got their first "permanent" contracts from Glasgow?

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Post by madmaccas Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:40 pm

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Seriously, though, did I not read a couple of weeks ago that Fagerson and Darcy Rae (plus otherrs) got their first "permanent" contracts from Glasgow?

Yeah but haven't they been in the wider squad for a while? Essentially it's just a change of contract. If they're suddenly called up from Harwick/U20's etc then yeah I'd say we should add them, otherwise it's more akin to a re-signing/contract upgrade.

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:50 pm

Fair do's. No real argument with that but it would possibly highlight to some non-believers that there is a path for those on development contracts to "graduate" to full contracts

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Post by RDW Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:51 pm

Worth posting this again - Edinburgh players still to have their contractrs renewed (I think):

Hookers: McInally, Hilterbrand, Turner
Props: Dickinson, Nel, Berghan, Sutherland
Locks: A.Toolis
Back Row: Leonardi, Du Preez

Fly Half: Bezuidenhout
Centre: Dominguez, Scott, Atiga
Wings: Farndale

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:55 pm

Agree RDW - was just posting a few of those names from memory.

We need to keep McInally, Nel, Dickinson, Sutherland, Du Preez and Scott. I'd like to keep Farndale as well, and possibly Turner.

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Post by RDW Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:58 pm

Alex Toolis is worth holding onto too I think - he should be very similar physically to his brother and the only reason Ben has shot to prominence is that he's managed to get gametime due to Gilchrist's injury. If Alex gets gametime too then you never know.

It's amazing how thing work out eh - if Gilchrist hadn't injured himself then Toolis would probably never have broken through. Atkins and McKenzie would have been the backup to Bresler and Gilchrist.


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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:58 pm

Glasgow could scoop up Alex Toolis and Tomas Leonardi, Leonardi in particular could fit in well there actually and prove a handy back-up.

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Thu 02 Apr 2015, 3:59 pm

Hhhmmm. Out of that list, I imagine WP, Matt Scott and Dicko (and poss Du Preez) will be on good salaries, so losing the others won't free up much money. That said, I would like to see McInally, Dickinson, Nel, Sutherland and Scott signed up. Farndale, maybe.
I might be in a minority here, but I think the back row has a much better balance without Du Preez so wouldn't be too upset to see him go. However, to keep his 3 years residency intact, he could only move the Weej

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 02 Apr 2015, 4:00 pm

Ben Toolis has been outstanding this season. I'd include him in the World Cup squad personally, along with Grayx2 and Gilchrist (or Hamilton if Gilchrist isn't fit).

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Post by RDW Thu 02 Apr 2015, 4:03 pm

Leonardi to Glasgow would be a good shout (can't see it being received with much enthusiasm from the weege though) - good squad player for them, but he might be away with Georgia at the world cup which won't help.

I think he should keep Alex Tools - with that leaves 5 locks, which is a good number.  4 is cutting it a bit fine.

Can't agree with you on Du Preez IYA - would you really rather have Coman at 6 over Du Preez? On form Du Preez is one of our best players, I certainly don't want to see him go.

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Thu 02 Apr 2015, 4:08 pm

RDW - I agree that he is high profile and stands out during games, yes BUT is that because more often than not he is isolated as he has run away from his supporting players? That could, of course, be the fault of his team-mates.
On a very crude level, have our results not been better in his absence (I appreciate that there are a million factors affecting this but just putting the thought out there ....................)

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 02 Apr 2015, 4:10 pm

Agree with RDW on Du Preez. I'd include him ahead of both Denton and Coman, but certainly Coman.

I don't think our improved performances are driven so much by the back row, but rather the front five, where Bresler and Toolis in particular have been awesome, with an honourable mention to Rory Sutherland.

On the lock situation 4 possibly is cutting it fine (Bresler, B Toolis, Gilchrist and MacKenzie), but with those guys on the books I'd be tempted to let A Toolis go to Glasgow where he'll likely be used a lot more, and bring through a youngster (Lewis Carmichael or Andrew Davidson for example) as 5th choice into the Edinburgh squad.

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Post by RDW Thu 02 Apr 2015, 4:11 pm

I've never been a believer in blaming players for making line breaks and bursting through tackles, saying that they shouldn't be doing these things because the support can't keep up.  What the hell?? Why is that a bad thing? steam

Yes results have improved but that's certainly nothing to do with Du Preez being injured...!

Du Preez is also the best defender in the squad - his 'hit them high, drive them back' technique is outstanding.

He is also prolific with the tries - much better than Mailand! Very Happy

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 02 Apr 2015, 4:18 pm

I also think on the salary front we are better consolidating what we have, than splashing big this summer. Solomons and co have implemented systems that are starting to come to fruition. Visser out hello Helu will probably improve our defence at relatively little cost to the attack, and I suspect Manu will be an improvement on Leonardi. Not to mention the improvement I hope to see from youngster like Watson, Toolis and Hoyland, plus continuing improvements from McInally at hooker.

With Heathcote and potentially Bezzy leaving, we are short at 10 (just Tonks and Te Rure, with Burleigh potentially covering). Other than at 10, provided we retain the right group of players, I'm pretty comforable with the squad as is (given the two new confirmed signings).

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Thu 02 Apr 2015, 4:20 pm

It's more "running down blind alleyways" rather breaking bursting tackles I am concerned about. I can imagine that coaches would prefer someone to rein themselves in rather than get isolated and then concede a penalty for holding on after they are tackled.

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Post by RDW Thu 02 Apr 2015, 4:25 pm

Can you point out to me the occasions where Du Preez did this? Very Happy

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Thu 02 Apr 2015, 4:30 pm

No because I am not the Rain Man or the T1000 so can't remember all the details boxing laughing
It may just be a perception thing but I do just feel that he runs around a lot but not always to be the best effect.
Oh and remember, I am older and wiser than you. And haven't had concussion like you.

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Post by VinceWLB Thu 02 Apr 2015, 4:44 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Alex Toolis is worth holding onto too I think - he should be very similar physically to his brother and the only reason Ben has shot to prominence is that he's managed to get gametime due to Gilchrist's injury. If Alex gets gametime too then you never know.

It's amazing how thing work out eh - if Gilchrist hadn't injured himself then Toolis would probably never have broken through. Atkins and McKenzie would have been the backup to Bresler and Gilchrist.


I was thinking the same about the Toolis bro until i realised Ben was quite a bit beefier, just take a look at their profile pic on the Edinburgh site. They are listed at the same weight but i don't buy that.

Not sure about your theory concerning the injury situation Ben was very early on in the season preferred over Atkins and McKenzie, i'm pretty sure Solomons realised he was better than both of them regardless of the injury situation.

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Post by luvtotup Thu 02 Apr 2015, 5:03 pm

Think you have missed out the biggest loss of the lot- DTH leaving Glasgow.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 02 Apr 2015, 5:04 pm

I actually think the real question re: Ben Toolis is whether Grant Gilchrist gets his place back. I can't see Solomons demoting Bresler.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 02 Apr 2015, 5:04 pm

luvtotup wrote:Think you have missed out the biggest loss of the lot- DTH leaving Glasgow.

Quite right - a massive blow. Great finisher.

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Post by RDW Thu 02 Apr 2015, 5:04 pm

I just can't fathom in what universe Coman is preferable to Du Preez!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 02 Apr 2015, 5:06 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I just can't fathom in what universe Coman is preferable to Du Preez!

I'm sure Scott Johnson would opt for Coman. Probably something to do with playing above the ground in a bikini, or some such...

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Post by VinceWLB Thu 02 Apr 2015, 5:09 pm

I would rank the 3 blindside at Edinburgh like this: Du Preez > Leonardi > Coman

Guess which one got a contract extension already!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 02 Apr 2015, 5:12 pm

VinceWLB wrote:I would rank the 3 blindside at Edinburgh like this: Du Preez > Leonardi > Coman

Guess which one got a contract extension already!

I'd put Leonardi on a par with Coman, certainly looking at Coman's performances over the last 6 months, but Du Preez is well ahead of both in my book. We need to keep Du Preez in Scotland, as I want him to become SQ.

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Post by justified sinner Thu 02 Apr 2015, 5:30 pm

Other Edinburgh outs. Blaauw - bar, Walker - bar and Thompson - back to US oh and Hart obviously as in at Glasgow.

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Post by RDW Thu 02 Apr 2015, 5:37 pm

Coman has been a good player for us this season, but my concerns with him going forward is that he's picked over Denton, Du Preez or Manu on grounds of 'leadership'.

We can't get ourselves in a position when the captain is 4th choice...

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 02 Apr 2015, 5:48 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Coman has been a good player for us this season, but my concerns with him going forward is that he's picked over Denton, Du Preez or Manu on grounds of 'leadership'.

We can't get ourselves in a position when the captain is 4th choice...

Agreed - akin to leaving out one of Scott or Burleigh just to get Strauss into the side.

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Post by BigGee Thu 02 Apr 2015, 6:17 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Leonardi to Glasgow would be a good shout (can't see it being received with much enthusiasm from the weege though) - good squad player for them, but he might be away with Georgia at the world cup which won't help.

I think he should keep Alex Tools - with that leaves 5 locks, which is a good number.  4 is cutting it a bit fine.

Can't agree with you on Du Preez IYA - would you really rather have Coman at 6 over Du Preez? On form Du Preez is one of our best players, I certainly don't want to see him go.

Leonardi is Argentinian, not Georgian. I doubt he will be going to the WC with either squad. A decent player, but to much depth in both squads in the back row for him to be staying. He will be off at the end of the season.

I think with Solly in particular, you can see who won't be staying as he just does not play them any more unless he has to. Leonardi has had his card marked for a while, despite him playing well when he got some games.

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Post by RDW Thu 02 Apr 2015, 7:09 pm

Woops - good point! Was obviously thinking of Basalaia...

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Post by RDW Thu 02 Apr 2015, 7:26 pm

VinceWLB wrote:

Not sure about your theory concerning the injury situation Ben was very early on in the season preferred over Atkins and McKenzie, i'm pretty sure Solomons realised he was better than both of them regardless of the injury situation.

You've intrigued me with this so thought I would back up my statement by looking at the team sheets.

Toolis was on the bench round 1 (Atkins and McKenzie starting). Gilchrist and Bresler were both injured.


He then didn't feature in a matchday squad in the Pro 12 until round 7 - the first game after the infamous game against Lyon when we lost so many players. This was the game that he was in the 2nd row with that guy from Heriots!

So I think my statement has some truth - he only appeared on the bench once in the first 6 games (7 including the UBB game) and then found himself starting when he was one of the last fit locks available. The rest is history!

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Post by VinceWLB Thu 02 Apr 2015, 8:18 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:

Not sure about your theory concerning the injury situation Ben was very early on in the season preferred over Atkins and McKenzie, i'm pretty sure Solomons realised he was better than both of them regardless of the injury situation.

You've intrigued me with this so thought I would back up my statement by looking at the team sheets.

Toolis was on the bench round 1 (Atkins and McKenzie starting). Gilchrist and Bresler were both injured.


He then didn't feature in a matchday squad in the Pro 12 until round 7 - the first game after the infamous game against Lyon when we lost so many players. This was the game that he was in the 2nd row with that guy from Heriots!

So I think my statement has some truth - he only appeared on the bench once in the first 6 games (7 including the UBB game) and then found himself starting when he was one of the last fit locks available. The rest is history!

Oh yes, i see it's only once he actually got gametime that he got parachuted ahead of Atkins and McKenzie. So injury situation clearly helped his cause and in some way forced Solomons hand. I really thought Ben got involved way earlier in the season. My bad Doh

Is it a coincidence Edinburgh really hit their strap once he got meaningful game time? not sure!

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Post by RDW Thu 02 Apr 2015, 8:26 pm

There has certainly been many ups and downs over the season, but it is probably fair to say our turnaround came from key players coming back from injury / retaining fitness.

As someone said earlier our front 5 platform has been one of the key things.

Sam Hidalgo-Clyne deserves a mention too - he's been sensational and his goal kicking must be 80%+ for the season.

So I'd say front 5 and Sammy are the main factors!

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Post by VinceWLB Thu 02 Apr 2015, 8:44 pm

Indeed front 5 has been nothing short of immense, Nel and Bresler have really come into their own and Sutherland and Toolis have been real find.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Fri 03 Apr 2015, 10:05 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:There has certainly been many ups and downs over the season, but it is probably fair to say our turnaround came from key players coming back from injury / retaining fitness.

As someone said earlier our front 5 platform has been one of the key things.

Sam Hidalgo-Clyne deserves a mention too - he's been sensational and his goal kicking must be 80%+ for the season.

So I'd say front 5 and Sammy are the main factors!

Shocked

SH-C has been a huge success story for Edinburgh this season, and I feel that there's an awful lot more to come. His passing is really improving and he has great pace as well. Given the style of play Vern Cotter is looking to deploy with Scotland, I really do think SH-C could make the starting XV, with Laidlaw on the bench to close down the tight games.

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Fri 03 Apr 2015, 10:38 am

And all of this without a consistently good performing stand off.
I suppose, though, that you don't need to be as extrovert or in-your-face as Henson or Cipriani to be a good SO. As someone said, Dan Carter does all the basics extremely/ridiculously well and isn't particularly flash

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Post by funnyExiledScot Fri 03 Apr 2015, 10:49 am

I think Tonks is growing as a 10. It was always going to take some time, but his distribution has been ok, his kicking is huge, his defence excellent for a 10 and he has great pace. I'd like to see him vary his game a bit more, for example some inside passes and perhaps improve his attacking kicking game (by which I mean his grubbers and chips, rather than just leathering the ball left, right and centre), but that will come. It's been a good move in my view.

The World Cup choices at 10 will be interesting. Weir and Jackson will come back into the reckoning if they can get themselves fit, and Horne and Tonks both provide cover for other positions which could be really helpful. You'd assume Russell will go as first choice, but it's difficult to assess who Cotter will take as the other one/two fly halves.

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Fri 03 Apr 2015, 11:00 am

He is growing into it but, and maybe I am old fashioned, I think it would be hard to learn/switch to such an important position. To me, at the top level SO's have so little time that they have to be "born" into the position.
I wonder which position Horne sees his future. Given Glasgow's depth at 10, I would like to see someone (Horne) head east

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Post by funnyExiledScot Fri 03 Apr 2015, 11:10 am

InjuredYetAgain wrote:He is growing into it but, and maybe I am old fashioned, I think it would be hard to learn/switch to such an important position. To me, at the top level SO's have so little time that they have to be "born" into the position.
I wonder which position Horne sees his future. Given Glasgow's depth at 10, I would like to see someone (Horne) head east

Shocked

Absolutely not!! We are the ones who are supposed to be offloading mediocre players we don't want on them, not the other way around!!

I actually rate Bezuidenhuit (or however you spell it) and would rather we kept him, in lieu of there being a young stand-off trying to break through. In fact even if there was a youngster needing some game time, we could use a couple of options behind Tonks. Ideally we'd have kept Heathcote or Leonard, but those ships have sailed.

As for inside centre we're fine with Scott, Burleigh and Strauss (in that order). It's actually at 13 we could use some additional resource, although this could be the season for Chris Dean to break through - looks a bit scrawny mind you. Sam Beard is useful, as is Burleigh at 13 (thought he was good outside Strauss actually against the Scarlets), but I suspect Dominguez will be out at the end of the season. Helu could be tried at 13, and I still think Fife ought to give it a go. He didn't look like an international class winger in the 6 Nations.

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Fri 03 Apr 2015, 11:21 am

I must confess I haven't seen enough of the guy whose name begins with Bez to pass meaningful comment but given that he has been playing club rugby more than with Edinburgh, I wonder if his days are numbered. RDW seems to always know how long players are under contract for - if it expires at the end of this season, given that he isn't a regular in the Edinburgh team or even the bench, I don't know if he has shown enough to get a new one

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Post by funnyExiledScot Fri 03 Apr 2015, 11:27 am

I suspect his days are numbered, it's just that I thought he looked ok. That said he was up against Piers Francis at the time, and GC's Uncle Dougie would have probably looked like Dan Carter in comparison.

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