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Masters chat thread - PLEASE USE KWINI'S BALLWASHER THREAD.

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Post by I'm never wrong Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

Now that Tiger has declared that he will play in the masters, I thought I would create a thread where we can chat about The Masters, without hijacking another thread. (Not that Tigers' declaration is the be all and end all, but you know what I mean)

Anyway, my point is this. here is a list of previous champions who intend to play.
Cabrera, Angel
Couples, Fred
Crenshaw, Ben
Immelman, Trevor
Johnson, Zach
Langer, Bernhard
Lyle, Sandy
Mickelson, Phil
Mize, Larry
O'Meara, Mark
Olazabal, Jose Maria
Schwartzel, Charl
Scott, Adam
Singh, Vijay
Watson, Bubba
Watson, Tom
Weir, Mike
Woods, Tiger
Woosnam, Ian

I reckon no more that 6 will make the cut. I know the history and the heritage of The Masters, but I think several of the above should just turn up for show. Play an exhibition 9 holes as someone mentioned in the past.


Last edited by I'm never wrong on Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:43 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by sirbenson Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:25 pm

Are you sure!?

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:49 pm

Pretty sure it's about the same time as Billy Payneintheneck does his State of the Masters news conference.

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Post by GPB Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:47 pm

John Cregan wrote:GPB, you seem to be missing my point, which is that I don't agree that all these amateur events should lead to Masters Qualification. 7 is quite excessive IMO.

Would you feel better if if were 6 qualification instead of 7?


Two of the amateur exemptions are recently added, the Pacific Asian Amateur and Latino America Amateur.  That's ANGC way of trying to grow the game internationally.  The Amateur Championship has been invited for years.

And one of the amateur exemptions is disappearing next year.  The USGA's Publinx is no longer played and therefore there will be no exemption for it.

So after this year there will be six Amateur exemptions

1. US Amateur Champ
2. US Amateur Finalist
3. US Mid Amateur Champ
4. British Amateur Champ
5. Asian Amateur Champ
6. Latino Amateur Champ

No I do not think it is excessive.

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Post by John Cregan Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:10 pm

I take it you have zero problem with the continuing discrimination against the European Tour vis-a vis the PGA Tour as regards qualification either where the winner of the Sony Open in Hawaii qualifies for the Masters and the winner of the PGA Championship at Wentworth doesn't?

The Masters Tournament is in a privileged position as one of Golf's Majors and the organisers, IMO, have a duty to (as much as possible) have the leading 95 (or whatever the number is) players in the world at it - with notable exceptions for past winners (not all) and past Major winners (the 5 year rule). Inviting 7 amateurs is a bit insulting to those in The OWGR Top 51-60 that miss out.

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Post by GPB Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:25 pm

John Cregan wrote: Inviting 7 amateurs is a bit insulting to those in The OWGR Top 51-60 that miss out. 


That's an opinion, not a fact.  Those players ranked 51-60 had every opportunity to get inside the top 50 and simply were unable to do it.    Three of them missed the cut at Morocco, which was a subsidized tournament with no Top 50 players in the field.  They missed the Cut.

All Marc Warren had to do was finish in the top 25 last week in San Antonio.  And he could not do it.  if these guys can't perform to get inside the top 50, there is no reason to think they can perform at ANGC.

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Post by GPB Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:36 pm

If a player wins the BMW Championship (with its subsidized OWGR  ranking of 64) and unable to be in the OWGR Top 50 at year end, is probably a one hit wonder.

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Post by John Cregan Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:38 pm

You continually avoid the point I am making - by giving me scenarios of what players need to do to make the World's Top 50- I am well aware of that. My point is simple - have more places for highly ranked Pros (51-80) and less for Amatuers and Retired Golfers(eg Crenshaw, Lyle, Woosnam).

You conveniently avoided the point I made about the European Tour being discriminated against by giving me the "one hit wonder" scenario. But it's ok for a "one hit wonder" to win the Sony Open and get a Masters invite?

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Post by beninho Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:11 pm

Anyone know when the masters started inviting tour winners and when psst champions had lifelong exemptions? The foundation of the masters was amateur golf. This was how it was set up before it was classed as a major. They should stick with these. They need a cut off and top 50 sounds like it offers the best players in the world a chance to play.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:17 pm

One thing that will change next year is that the Top 64 will play the WGC:MatchPlay two weeks prior to The Masters, presumably finishing on the final Sunday for qualification for Augusta via the owgr route.
That will at least give the opportunity for the borderline contenders to have one last shot at moving up (or moving out).

ben,
I imagine past Champs have always enjoyed a lifetime exemption. In my memory, Tour winners have received an invite for at least the past 35 or 40 years, except a brief hiatus a few years ago when that exemption channel was withdrawn.

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Post by John Cregan Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:36 pm

That's interesting timing for the Matchplay all right and serious pressure for World No's 45-60 to try and consolidate/break into the Masters.

Would love it if the Matchplay was run via Open Draw(for each round) as opposed to the Seeding basis it's done at the moment.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:46 pm

Agreed John, Me too!

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Post by GPB Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:51 pm

John Cregan wrote:You continually avoid the point I am making - by giving me scenarios of what players need to do to make the World's Top 50- I am well aware  of that. My point is simple - have more places for highly ranked Pros (51-80) and less for Amatuers and Retired Golfers(eg Crenshaw, Lyle, Woosnam).

You conveniently avoided the point I made about the European Tour being discriminated against by giving me the "one hit wonder" scenario. But it's ok for a "one hit wonder"  to win the Sony Open and get a Masters invite?

IMO:  ANGC is not discriminated against the EuroTour .  In fact, IMO there is a valid arguments that the European tour players are OVER represented in the OWGR Top 50.  Many of the Euro tournaments are OWGR subsidized.  Nearly all of the co-sanctioned events with the Sunshine Tour and Asian Tour and Challenge tour are subsidized.  And many of their weaker events are subsidized like last weeks tournament in Morocco.

Andy Sullivan would be no where close to a Top 50 ranking if the tournaments he won earlier this were not subsidized.  And most people forget the "trickle down" effect of the subsidies.  They snowball. Subsidized Points earned in South Africa help tournaments like Dubai, and Abu Dhabi and Qatar.

 Levy, Warren, Siem, Fleetwood etc, would be nowhere close to the Top 50 if it weren't for these subsidies, either directly or indirectly.

The Masters is what it is today because of the amateurs and past champions.  Part of the mystique of Augusta is the fight to earn an invite.  Amateurs who earn an exemption have to stay an amateur to play the Masters and some have not done it.

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Post by GPB Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:58 pm

John Cregan wrote:Would love it if the Matchplay was run via Open Draw(for each round) as opposed to the Seeding basis it's done at the moment.

The Match Play is going towards an open draw (but not completely)

There is going to be 16 different sections to the draw consisting of 4 players each and there is a round robin of play within each section.

Each section will have a player ranked from 1-16, a player ranked 17-32, a player ranked 33-48 and a player ranked 49-64.

Theoretically, Rory could draw the 17th, the 33rd and the 49th ranked players instead of #32,#33, #64 ranked players.

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Post by John Cregan Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:04 pm

Will be interesting to see how the new Matchplay format works out. Personally, I don't like Round Robin, but we'll see..............

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:21 pm

I agree John, Round Robin may be good for TV but lousy for the integrity of some of the later matches.

We'll never see eye to eye with GPB and various subsidies . . . . . but the bottom line is that it's up to Europe to come to bat, the players, the sponsors, the Tour. Then they can call some of the tune that is mostly composed in the Southern USA.

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Post by Davie Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:30 pm

Oh come on GPB that is still seeded whichever way you look at it.

The only downside to a totally open draw would be the conspiricy theories that would be rampant if two of the favourites were drawn together in the first or second round - but as long as it was totally transparent with no chance for "fixing" it would be great publicity!

I won't pick on Rory or anyone else in the top 5-10 but just imaging the crowd pulling nature if there were a couple of first or second round ties featuring top 10 players

The counter argument of course is that the tournament would "lose" a big name early - but the drama would far make up for that (IMO) - let's face it the first two days of the current format is pretty boring with only the occasional "shock"

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Post by GPB Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:45 pm

Davie wrote:Oh come on GPB that is still seeded whichever way you look at it.

<snip>

The counter argument of course is that the tournament would "lose" a big name early - but the drama would far make up for that (IMO) - let's face it the first two days of the current format is pretty boring with only the occasional "shock"


1.   Rolling Eyes

2.  Are you kidding?  IMO,  The best days of the old format was the first two rounds. Semis and the finals are boring!!  Only two matches going on.

IMO, Match play is a terrible format for tournament golf.  Great for the Ryder Cup, Solheim Cup etc.  But terrible format for a individual tournament.  Ernie Els got to the Semis last year playing terrible golf.  But all his opponents played even worse.

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Post by Davie Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:54 pm

Nope not kidding - but then I've discovered over the years that Americans are infatuated with "brackets" and notably "seeded brackets"

To compare with football (the real football), you've probably never experienced the excitement of the 3rd round FA cup draw where teams like Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester (United and City) and Arsenal can all theoretically be drawn against each other

Remember also a more random draw can considerably increase the chances of a still talented but slightly less favoured play (or team) - Get a couple of the top 4 eliminated in the "round of 16" (sic) then some guys ranked perhaps 12-16 so still potential worthy winners, find their stock increasing enormously

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Post by sirbenson Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:00 am

GPB wrote:
Davie wrote:Oh come on GPB that is still seeded whichever way you look at it.

<snip>

The counter argument of course is that the tournament would "lose" a big name early - but the drama would far make up for that (IMO) - let's face it the first two days of the current format is pretty boring with only the occasional "shock"


1.   Rolling Eyes

2.  Are you kidding?  IMO,  The best days of the old format was the first two rounds. Semis and the finals are boring!!  Only two matches going on.

IMO, Match play is a terrible format for tournament golf.  Great for the Ryder Cup, Solheim Cup etc.  But terrible format for a individual tournament.  Ernie Els got to the Semis last year playing terrible golf.  But all his opponents played even worse.

Totally agree, the first two rounds were the most exciting for me, I find the Semis and Finals are not exactly riveting more often than not!

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Post by sirbenson Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:00 am

Augusta.com ‏@AUG_Masters 50s50 seconds ago
@TheMasters field is officially at 98 after Holmes wins in Houston. Mike Weir and Kevin Stadler said they plan to play despite injuries.

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Post by incontinentia Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:27 am

Weather forecast not great for the Masters- thunderstorms Thursday, Friday and Saturday Crying or Very sad
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Post by John Cregan Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:12 am

Masters website has 99 in the field - who's out??

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Post by I'm never wrong Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:19 am

I was thinking about this as well John. Could it be Tim Clark as mentioned in a previous thread?

Edit. Kwini was right. Click Here

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Post by John Cregan Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:27 am

I'm never wrong wrote:I was thinking about this as well John. Could it be Tim Clark as mentioned in a previous thread?

Edit. Kwini was right. Click Here

thumbsup 98 it is. So that's 32 3 balls and a 2 ball of Phil Mickelson & Tom Watson (just for fun!)


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Post by incontinentia Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:11 pm

How likely do you think it is that Rory can win this week?

His record at Augusta isn't exactly awe-inspiring. Yes he was excellent for 3 rounds in 2011, but he has only 1 top 10 at the Masters. In 22 rounds he has 11 double bogies and 3 triples. He has shot 77 or worse 5 of those times.
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Post by McLaren Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:48 pm

inco, Rory has been poor in par 5 scoring, I expect him to improve on them this year.


Although he hasn't played to his best at the masters Rory is hopefully a long way off from being bad enough to get this letter, which was sent from Hootie to Casper in 2001.

Letter asking BIlly Casper to stop playing in the Masters.:
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Post by kwinigolfer Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:52 pm

I wonder how many will be sent out after this year? Woosnam and O'Meara should both receive a letter, while it seems Watson will call it a day after this year or next regardless.

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Post by Shotrock Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:44 pm

Fully agree that Matchplay is a bad format for professional golf (except for the rare occasion, which I certainly enjoy!).  If soccer is the "real" football, medal play is the "real" test for the touring professional.

Good point Kwin. It's all about attracting and retaining the best players in professional golf. Once again, time for those in Europe to get off their wallets.

Let's not forget this is the year, according to Chubby, that "most" professional golf was to be contested in Asia. Americans "don't understand this" said big Chubby. Neither do the players or sponsors Ole Boy!

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Post by GPB Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:32 pm

Shotrock wrote:
Let's not forget this is the year, according to Chubby, that "most" professional golf was to be contested in Asia. Americans "don't understand this" said big Chubby. Neither do the players or sponsors Ole Boy!

When did he say that?

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Post by Shotrock Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:46 pm


I'll keep digging GPB ... This was from 2011, check out page 3. http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/2011-10/chubby-chandler-interview-yocom?currentPage=3

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Post by I'm never wrong Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:04 pm

Sky giving us our moneys worth - we even get a programme showing the players on the practice range on a Monday. Commentators working hard to fill the airtime with interesting nuggets of information.

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Post by McLaren Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:05 pm

Jason Sobel tweeting that Tiger's chipping practice looked to have gone pretty well. Maybe he will only just miss the cut? Whistle
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Post by sirbenson Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:33 pm

McLaren wrote:Jason Sobel tweeting that Tiger's chipping practice looked to have gone pretty well.  Maybe he will only just miss the cut? Whistle

It seems like he has continued that on the next few holes as well, I get the feeling he will surprise this week!

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Post by pedro Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:44 pm

Does that mean he doesn't hit any greens? Whistle Headscratch

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Post by McLaren Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:45 pm

sirbenson

Have you seen some of the pictures on twitter of tiger practicing with earphones in?

I wonder if he has a dave peltz audio book playing?


Inco

It was specific chipping practice.
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Post by sirbenson Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:49 pm

I did see those pics yes lol! Apparently Poulter was told to take them out a few years ago and he gave a typical Poulter response!

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Post by John Cregan Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:50 pm

Tiger probably chipping only because he's too injured to make a full swing. Will be amazed if he completes 36 holes.

Hope im wrong.

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Post by sirbenson Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:52 pm

He isn't only chipping!? He is out on the course playing full shots

https://twitter.com/GCTigerTracker

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Post by Shotrock Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:56 pm

I still say those Augusta green surrounds look harder than Belgian cobblestones to Tiger. Let's see how he reacts under pressure. I would not stand opposite green side on any of his chips!

This is your course to dismantle Rory.

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Post by McLaren Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:04 pm

Shotrock

Obviously Augusta will never be 2011 congressional soft but for it to be a course for Rory to dismantle it would have to be soften than normal. I could be wrong but has Rory ever go really low compared to field when the conditions have been properly fast and firm?

Someone mentioned thunderstorms earlier, so maybe Rory will get a "soft" augusta to attack? Any further weather updates.
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Post by John Cregan Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:05 pm

sirbenson wrote:He isn't only chipping!? He is out on the course playing full shots

https://twitter.com/GCTigerTracker

Interesting Sir B...........Really would be great to see him contend.

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Post by pedro Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:11 pm

Don't you think he'd need more 'reps' to contend?

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Post by pedro Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:14 pm

McLaren wrote:
I wonder if he has a dave peltz audio book playing?
'No limits' by Ian Poulter methinks.

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Post by McLaren Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:28 am

There seems to be a lot of excitement going around about a positive chipping session and practice round by Tiger, but is this really all that surprising and does it mean he will fare well come the counting rounds?

I said somewhere else that tiger's issues were technical in nature in his most recent poor rounds, but this was in contrast to his other post 2009 issues which seemed mostly mental. It is no surprise that Tiger has worked out how to hit the ball again and play well when it doesn't matter. But even if he can hit the ball properly again is he likely to have overcome his mental issues that have stopped him winning a major post scandal? I know he swing hasn't been great compared to the early 2000's post scandal but it has been good enough to win a major. If gmacs swing can win a major then a stack and tilt tiger can.
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Post by sirbenson Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:39 am

I agree McLaren, it's all well and good doing it in practice but isn't the Yips basically nerves or am I totally wrong, so when the pressure of the actual tournament starts that's when his chipping can be judged?

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Post by McLaren Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:50 am

benson

I have no idea what is meant by the yips, it doesn't seem like a well defined term.

But whatever the yips are, Tigers issues around the green in the last few months look to be entirely technical.


The mental aspect is about turning a 73 into a 69, which tiger has been unable to do in majors for quite some time.
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Post by LadyPutt Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:21 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:Sky giving us our moneys worth - we even get a programme showing the players on the practice range on a Monday. Commentators working hard to fill the airtime with interesting nuggets of information.
And that's why Sky's coverage far surpasses what the BBC used to deign to give us. We never saw the Par 3 contest and I used to get fed up switching from BBC2 to BBC1 and back again for no particular reason and then having to listen to Hazel Irvine telling me what I had been watching on the other channel.  furious  I can put up with the advert breaks (just start recording it on Sky+ and then whizz through them) when I get to see this, the Par 3, Masters Breakfast etc as well as all the coverage ANGC let us have without channel hopping. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with when they start on The Open!
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Post by Davie Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:27 pm

It's an opinion I've expressed many times LP - but it tends not to go down too well around here, people expecting it to be "free to air"

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Post by Shotrock Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:43 pm

Well, Tiger's certainly been able to handle pressure in the past, but that came from a huge foundation of success and confidence. No more.

I will be stunned if he's competitive (within 5 shots of the lead come Sunday) at this tournament.

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Post by I'm never wrong Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:57 pm

LadyPutt wrote:telling me what I had been watching on the other channel.
Hate this as well. Some people watch it all through!!! This is why I dislike programmes that recap whats gone on before the ad break, after the ad break. I know!!! I've been watching!!!! Use the time you've just wasted to tell me more about what you're showing.

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