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Silly season transfer rumours (continued)....

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Post by George Carlin Tue 14 Apr 2015, 7:48 am

First topic message reminder :

Continuation of the previous thread from the esteemed Mister GeordieFalcon:
https://www.606v2.com/t57129-silly-season-transfer-rumours
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Post by B91212 Fri 05 Jun 2015, 8:19 pm

Latest rumour on Saints is that it is ONE big name signing and not two which makes more sense. World Class is a very subjective term but with North already on one marquee contract then it's hard to see how two more big name players could come in and Saints stay within the cap. McCaw and Vermuelen are the names that are appearing most frequently so we shall see. Hope it's a big carrying 8 as with Wood, Clark & Gibson in the squad next year then flanker looks okay but Saints lack ball carriers who can make decent yards. Lawes, Wood and to a lesser extent a couple of others do okay at tying defenders in but rarely punch holes in opposition defenses.

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Post by B91212 Fri 05 Jun 2015, 8:23 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Evans might be a punt for Saints or Sale. Saints have Lawes, Day and newly signed Paterson on the books then back row who can cover which isn't ideal for a club competing on two fronts. Sale have lost Paterson and Hines this summer so may be keen to add something to their tight five. Steve Diamond does make hard working players look good.
4th second row in the Saints squad is Craig if he could ever get any luck with injuries. Decent AP level player when not broken and for me was Saints best player in the final day defeat to Tigers. Can't seem to ever string a run of games together plus suffered a serious injury too, shoulder I think it was but kept him out for a long time. Not sure if there were other injuries or if the same injury kept him out for a long time.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 05 Jun 2015, 8:37 pm

I thought Craig was more of a lanky six ala Clark. He's certainly had no luck with injuries and he's always looked a prospect.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 05 Jun 2015, 10:00 pm

With Toulon losing their home semi-final to Stade Francais I guess hopes that they may make do with what back row resources they've got have probably just become even slimmer! Especially given that their back row was considerably outplayed.

Also the final game of Carl Hayman, Ali Williams and Bakkies Bothas very distinguished careers. clap

With Hayman retiring, and their scrum struggling today anyhow, are there any rumours floating around about Toulon looking to sign any props?

Chiocci and Menini are good loose heads but Salesi Ma'afu and a faded Castro won't offer the set piece dominance that Toulon like to build their game around.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 05 Jun 2015, 10:07 pm

I think Castro is out of contract. Just glad Tigers have signed up Ayerza, Youngs and Cole on new deals.

I think Toulon will be eying up a recruiting trip to South Africa.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 05 Jun 2015, 10:34 pm

Jannie Du Plessis is already off to Montpellier I thought?

With TH likely to be their position of most concern I guess they could target Oosthuizen if he's out of contract.

Where there not rumours of the Beast moving to France a while back?

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 06 Jun 2015, 6:16 am

Both du Plessis boys are heading to Montpellier. The Boks aren't short of front row options.

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Post by Fluxy Sat 06 Jun 2015, 8:06 am

But so is Steven Kitshoff, so they will start looking quite light! But then again they do pick overseas players more freely

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 06 Jun 2015, 8:26 am

Meyer has no qualms with selecting overseas players. Big money moves to France are going to be in fashion.

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Post by Fanster Sat 06 Jun 2015, 9:24 am

Du Plessis to Montpellier?

The French league is getting crazy! Is it in danger of becoming exploited by the SH payday brigade?

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Post by whocares Sat 06 Jun 2015, 9:32 am

There has been rumours of Oosthuizen joining Toulon but no evidence so far.
As for Montpelier blame Jake White who's transforming that team in super XV outfit. Really sad what is going on there.

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Post by Fanster Sat 06 Jun 2015, 9:34 am

Isn't there fan discontent at Montpellier?

Doesn't France have player restrictions on non French nationals?

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Post by Welly Sat 06 Jun 2015, 9:42 am

Toulon will go after the beast for starters maybe look at oosthuizen

Part of me thinks they will go after Mulipola the season after.

Toulon pack next season could look like:

 1) Beast
 2) oosthuizen
 3) Ma'afu/?
 4) Manoa
 5) POC
 6) Smith
 7) Armitage
 8) Duane of Asgard


And on top of this Eben Etzebeth was linked to them.

So could be a pack of:

1) Beast, 2) oosthuizen, 3) Ma'afu
4) Etzebeth, 5) POC
6) Manoa, 7) Armitage, 8) Duane of Asgard

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Post by yappysnap Sat 06 Jun 2015, 10:17 am

Who is that no8?? Sounds likw a character from Game of Thrones!

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Post by Welly Sat 06 Jun 2015, 10:19 am

Vermeulen

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Post by whocares Sat 06 Jun 2015, 10:32 am

Fanster wrote:Isn't there fan discontent at Montpellier?

Doesn't France have player restrictions on non French nationals?

Yes by getting rid of historical players and local ones they are certainly alienating part of their fans.

There is limit of non JIFF players in each squad. 15 I think.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 06 Jun 2015, 8:17 pm

Oosthuizen's a prop rather than a hooker isn't he Welly?

In Guirado they have strong hooker already though.

Whilst I still have question marks over their props it's undoubted that the rest of their side will still be formidable however.

9.Tillus-Borde
10.Giteau or Cooper
11.Habana
12.Nonu or Giteau
13.Bastareaud or Mermoz
14.Armitage or Mitchell
15.Halfpenny

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Post by Welly Sat 06 Jun 2015, 8:27 pm

Yep he is a prop plays both sides (mainly LH) don't know why I put him as a hooker

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Post by whocares Sat 06 Jun 2015, 8:34 pm

JOC also going back to Toulon after the WC. They also grabbed two high potential young players from relegated bayonne including capped number 8 Ollivon.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 06 Jun 2015, 10:46 pm

Averaged the two Welly!

I hadn't realised the JOC was heading back to Toulon whocares. That will leave him ineligible for Australia given he hasn't got 60 caps (and wont by the end of the RWC).

It gives Boudjellal yet another overseas international he wont need to worry about being away with their country though.

Nonu, JOC and both Armitage brothers will be ineligible.

POC will be retired.

Lobbe may well retire as well, or possibly not be selected if not playing for the Argentinian super rugby franchise.

Cooper could also be added to that list if he doesn't add 7 more caps to his tally by the end of the world cup. He should manage this really with 3 Rugby Championship games and the World Cup but injury or Quade's form could strike.

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Post by Welly Sun 07 Jun 2015, 1:17 am

Seen on another forum Barrow is set to join Leicester.

I'm am happy with that signing.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 07 Jun 2015, 1:51 am

Dom Barrow?

If so he's a fantastic prospect and already an excellent player but it would surely lead to either him or De Cheves struggling for game time.

He could offer a similar skill set to Slater as a back up which would be great for our squad but I'd question it as a move for him at this stage.

[Also queue GF understandably hitting the roof!]

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Post by Welly Sun 07 Jun 2015, 2:03 am

king_carlos wrote:Dom Barrow?

If so he's a fantastic prospect and already an excellent player but it would surely lead to either him or De Cheves struggling for game time.

He could offer a similar skill set to Slater as a back up which would be great for our squad but I'd question it as a move for him at this stage.

[Also queue GF understandably hitting the roof!]

Unless due to Croft injury Williams play mainly at 6.

Also I reckon next season Kitchener will take Parling spot in the 6N's and Slater will take Attwoods spot meaning we would be short.


Exact same spot Kitchener was in I guess when he left wuss highly rated but believed to not get as much game time. Due to our depth but look at him now in the AP team of the season and IMO should be in the England 51 and will be in the England squad next season IMO.

IMO if it happens I Reckon Barrow will overtake De Cheves and Fitzgerald within the next season or 2 at which time he would still only be 24!

But I mean our lock depth would be huge in terms of quality and age.

Mind you it sounds like these rumours are originally from Fissler (not sure) so who knows.


Hoping it is true.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 07 Jun 2015, 2:21 am

I'd be very pleased with it as a signing as well. How highly I rate him and the possibility of an even younger back up to Slater outweigh my worries about game time I must admit.

I just can't help but feel that if he was heading anywhere but Tigers my immediate thought would be poor move if would restrict game time. On the one hand Tigers have a very good history of developing excellent second rows. On the other Falcons are developing a fast improving squad and I'd really like them to keep hold of some home grown youngsters such as Barrow who could flourish under what also seems a very good environment.

(That last part will be viewed as very hypocritical from a Tigers fan I accept!)

24 would still be young yes but given I often complain about England being too conservative about bringing talent through due to age I feel the need to point out that Retallick is 24 and has 35 caps, Etzebeth is 23 with 33 caps and Launchbury 24 with 22 caps. In the modern game players are flourishing by coming through younger and as such 24 feels a tad late for someone with Barrows talent to be getting a regular starting place in the Jeff.

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Post by Welly Sun 07 Jun 2015, 2:26 am

I hope it's true.

You mention Brodie and Eben BUT would Burrows now be likely to overtake Launch, Lawes or Slater and Kitchener in England anyway?

Lock is England's strongest position depth wise and we haven had any old old player there for a while. (Unlike other teams).

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Post by king_carlos Sun 07 Jun 2015, 3:30 am

He wouldn't be likely to overtake them no. I'd also add Kruis to that list, he's clearly rated more highly than Kitch by Bomber. Itoje could also be in there depending on what position he ends up in.

Looking forward a year or so however, if England want the option of a bigger bruiser in the second row then Barrow could be our next best option after Slater. He's not near Ed in terms of performance yet but has that sort of potential IMO.

Plus the cupboard in terms of big, physical ball carrying locks in England is pretty bare if we are honest.

Attwood has struggled to show his size or physicality consistently on the international stage. Although he has been strong at set piece and displayed the sort of work rate Lancaster likes.

Savage has faded this season.

Matt Garvey will likely move back to lock next season but either isn't rated or wanted by Bomber.

It's not a long list and if England go down the route of wanting the option of a bruiser in their squad then I honestly believe that after Slater, Barrow could soon be our best choice IF given game time in the Jeff to develop.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 07 Jun 2015, 10:48 am

Hmm so much for Tigers forward recruitment was finished. Barrow would be like the cherry on top of the cake. We've got a decent selection of forward additions but he'd be an excellent signing on top of that. Hasn't he also played 6 on occasion for Falcons? Cockers does seem to be going for the three lock formation these days.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sun 07 Jun 2015, 11:00 am

Barrow could be an interesting signing for you.

He came to us full of potential and made some great appearances in his first season. He really seems to have tailed off this year. He's put a lot of bulk on and has struggled with injuries (possibly linked).

As a Falcons fan I wouldn't be overly concerned if he left. We've got better options available and Witty is coming through nicely. A change or club might allow him to kick on, who knows.

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Post by Geordie Mon 08 Jun 2015, 9:48 am

Yeah, Barrow is an interesting one and a year ago id have been devastated, but now I probably echo Sgt.

I would far rather keep him - I think he could be a hell of a player, but as Sgt has said he has had a lot of injury problems which many feel is due to the mass he has put on. And it has stalled his progress a bit.

We are lucky with our locks at the moment plus we have 4 locks coming through our system who themselves look hugely optimistic...Witty (Currently in the England u20 team), Glen Youngs (Scotland u20) Sean Robinson, and Harry Snowdon at 20, is 6'8 and around 20 stone.

It could be a great move for Barrow and if Tigers can sort his injury out and get him playing they be getting a cracker.

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Post by Welly Mon 08 Jun 2015, 10:37 am

So our locks next season could be:

Slater
Kitchener
Fitzgerald
De Chaves
Williams
Burrow

Not a bad set of locks to have 5 EQP, 3 that play 6 as well.

I reckon we might see a LH come in maybe.

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Post by Geordie Mon 08 Jun 2015, 10:40 am

Welly,

IF you can get him injury free and playing consistently, he is definitely good enough for a starting spot and will get better (if he's allowed to play rather than being injured)

Which ever combo you play would be a big 'ol second row!!

Barrow / Kitchener
Slater / Barrow
Slater / Kitchener


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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 08 Jun 2015, 12:46 pm

Welly isn't Fitzgerald the only NEQ? De Chaves had an English parent, Williams qualifies on residency/parent (I thought he was EQ). Add in Wells and we're looking well stocked.


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Post by king_carlos Mon 08 Jun 2015, 2:52 pm

6 locks with 5 EQP leaves Fitzgerald as the only NEQ fkaS.

Williams is Zimbabwe born but qualifies under the granny rule I believe. It's not a regulation I like but still that's a different discussion.

I seem to remember him moving to Worcs for the start of the 2013/14 season so wouldn't have qualified under residency yet.

Welly - A LH is a possibility but with Mulipola being used there recently I wouldn't be surprised to see Logi being used on either side more and Balmain continue to get more game time in big games.

1.Ayerza, Mulipola, Rizzo, Brugnara, Sio
2.Youngs, Ghirildini, Bateman
3.Cole, Balmain, Mulipola, Pasquali

I'd liked to have kept Bristow on board but overall I'd be very happy with the above as front row resources. Farnworth and Thacker offer cover at hooker, although I'd like to see Thacker more at openside, and Sio is in Samoa's expanded World Cup squad so is clearly rated.

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Post by Welly Mon 08 Jun 2015, 2:54 pm

Bateman can play TH which is handy.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 08 Jun 2015, 6:17 pm

Plenty of EQ for Tigers but a bit of a drop in quality? Thorn & Parling replaced with a championship lock and our 4th choice....are Tigers fans happy with this?

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Post by Welly Mon 08 Jun 2015, 6:20 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Plenty of EQ for Tigers but a bit of a drop in quality? Thorn & Parling replaced with a championship lock and our 4th choice....are Tigers fans happy with this?

Actually replace by Kitchener and a main stay Super rugby lock for the Chiefs.

Mike Williams will play more at 6 IMO. And I guess we haven't seen much of him play due to the fact that he looks very good.

Barrow will start of as our 5th/6th choice

Comparison:

This season
Slater
Parling
Kitchener
Thorn
Deacon (unfortunately had to retire though)
De Chaves

Next season
Slater
Kitchener
Fitzgerald
Williams
De Chaves
Barrow

The bottom 3 could all rotate with each IMO.

Would have those locks sets above everyone else's locks in the AP.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 08 Jun 2015, 6:59 pm

I forgot about Williams.

Still a bit of a step down on Thorn & Parling imo. You can only play 2 locks end of the day and there's some good units about.

I'd have took Thorn/Parling over most units in the AP, not sure I'd think the same about Slater/Kitchener but it is a good combo.

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Post by Welly Mon 08 Jun 2015, 7:04 pm

Got to look at the ages as well though:

Thorn (40)
Parling (31) 32 in October and has a mix injury record recently.

Whereas the oldest in our crop of locks next season is 28

Our front row certainly helps though.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 08 Jun 2015, 8:03 pm

Slater I'd take over Thorn or Parling. Even lacking fitness at the end of the season his impact was noticeable and he is the first name on the team sheet when fit. Kitchener overtook Parling over the course of last season, he's better around the park and about two stone heavier which helps in the tight exchanges. Not to mention Kitchener was the line out king in the AP last season.

Losing the experience and last of the golden years Tigers in Deacon is a big blow, we certainly missed him in the winter months. We've shed experience this summer but that experience had a lot of injury problems I'm really hoping won't be replicated by the younger options we have available. De Chaves has captained the LV team and Fitzgerald is a Super 15 winner so they're good back ups. Barrow and Wells will be excellent projects, Williams will be at 6 competing with Croft.

On the front row I think we'll be fine as the AP doesn't start until after the group stages when Rizzo, Leo and Mulipola will be back with us. Get the younger guys some good experience in the pre season competition and off the bench and it will bode well for the future.

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Post by Welly Mon 08 Jun 2015, 8:09 pm

Mulipola could get into the 1/4ers TBF.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 08 Jun 2015, 8:10 pm

Not sure I can agree there Sam. Thorn was ageing but such a class in the tight. Slater is perhaps more noticeable in the loose but no Thorn.

Kitchener had a good season but his England ranking is his level currently. Parling is a classy player who is deservedly 3rd choice for England and a Lion to boot.

All opinions and they may well eclipse the leaving locks, I'm a big fan of Slater. I always thought Kitchener was a little overrated to be honest.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 08 Jun 2015, 8:56 pm

Kitchener was a bit of a show pony when he arrived but this season he's been awesome. No one stole more line outs in the AP and he's a 19 stone lock it's not like he's built like Crofty. Thorn thinks he's good enough to play for the ABs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11348188/Graham-Kitchener-is-Englands-next-big-thing-who-would-have-been-an-All-Black-by-now-if-he-was-a-New-Zealander.html

Cockers has said the only difference between Kitch and Parling is the talk. Kitch is quiet whilst Parling is more of an on field leader. Which given his experience you'd expect, he captained the Lions or was meant to mid week.

I think Thorn has been brilliant this season and watching him smash through rucks has been a pleasure. So was his only try. Slater does the tight stuff just as well, Deacon called him "a proper Tiger", but the loose stuff as well. Slater has been the player we missed the most this season through injury. As I said first name on the team sheet.

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Post by whocares Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:25 am

looks like Toulon has signed Matt Stevens. that's their prop situation sorted out

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:54 am

Kitchener was comfortably our best lock last season and Slater would have been if not injured. Thorn was an inspiration, but really he was struggling to maintain the intensity for a full 40.

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Post by propdavid_london Tue 09 Jun 2015, 4:18 pm

Just rumour, but on BBC Manu Tuilagi is no 1 target for Toulouse next season.

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Post by Geordie Tue 09 Jun 2015, 4:22 pm

That's an interesting one....but surely will remain only that.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue 09 Jun 2015, 4:23 pm

Can they afford his medical/lawyer bills?

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Post by Welly Tue 09 Jun 2015, 4:28 pm

propdavid_london wrote:Just rumour, but on BBC Manu Tuilagi is no 1 target for Toulouse next season.  

He is in contract next season you know.

Having read the French article that first announced it.

It isn't quite like that more really that Toulouse haven't signed many players and they need to be looking at big backs and how Manu might want a fresh start due to recent situations and not being in the WC, the fact Leicester have said they are in advanced talks with Manu and will not sell him this season ends a bit of the rumour anyway in that Toulse might buy his contract out.

Cockerill has said you would need to be bill gates to buy him from us and even then most likely reject it.

Typical rumour period where the press will link anyone with anything esp French press.

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Post by whocares Tue 09 Jun 2015, 8:12 pm

To be fair to them Toulouse only signings so far are one obscure fijian and a bayonne prop. They seem to be on a diet budget wise these days and can't afford much.

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Post by demosthenes Tue 09 Jun 2015, 9:19 pm

whocares wrote:To be fair to them Toulouse only signings so far are one obscure fijian and a bayonne prop. They seem to be on a diet budget wise these days and can't afford much.

Or they are waiting for their new coach to decide who to go for?

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