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Judgement Day III-bigger crowd than European Champions Cup final- Thread

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 20 Apr 2015, 10:04 am

First topic message reminder :

Oh well, nobody has started a thread on this yet so I might as well do one, is anybody going ? At £10 per person for two games it's a bargain, over 35,000 tickets sold so far,so I have been told, not bad, I will be there. Yahoo

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/32450.php#.VTS-adJVhHw

Anyway back to the games, everyone has had a weeks rest, except Dragons, I wonder if this will affect them, wins for the two West Wales sides on Saturday, soory to Blues and Dragons fans, I expect to see all the Welsh internationals that are not injured playing as well, I cannot wait. Wales boss Warren Gatland has said that this weekends matches will go a long way to him deciding his WC squad.

The Kiwi coach has identified the Millennium Stadium regional double-header later this month as a perfect opportunity for players to force the way into his plans.

Cardiff Blues take on the play-off chasing Ospreys in the first game of the day on Saturday, April 25, with the Dragons then facing Champions Cup hopefuls the Scarlets.

There will be a host of Wales contenders on duty and Gatland says watching them pit their wits against each other will inform his decision-making when it comes to picking his initial World Cup group.

On June 7, he names a 45-strong training squad, which will embark on a series of camps before playing warm-up fixtures against Ireland and Italy, with the group to be whittled down to a final 31 for this autumn’s global tournament.

So he says the selectors’ eyes will be firmly on Judgement Day III, which is on course for a record attendance, with more than 32,000 tickets having already been sold.

“We have been planning in earnest for this World Cup for some time now, but there are some things you can not plan for,” said Gatland.

“The clubs are approaching the business end of the season and when we name our preliminary RWC squad in June, form is going to be a major factor in our decision-making process.

“All of the national squad coaches will be watching even more closely on Judgement Day this year.

“There is nothing like a derby match to put players under pressure to perform and with the added extra factor of being played out at the Millennium Stadium it should be a revealing day from a coach’s point of view.

“We have a good idea of what our best team is at the moment and we have been really happy with the players in the Six Nations and particularly with the performance against Italy in that final weekend when they did everything that was asked of them.

“But there are always players that time it right and come into consideration at World Cup time when form becomes an incredibly important factor.

“You only have to look at the Sam Warburton who was named captain ahead of the 2011 Rugby World Cup after Matthew Rees missed out through injury and the partnership formed with Dan Lydiate and Toby Faletau in the back row, to see that.

“The door is open for someone to not only play themselves into the squad, but even into the starting line-up and all eyes will be on Judgement Day in April to see if someone can put their hands up.”

This will be the third year for the Pro12 Welsh derby double-header, which drew crowds of 36,174 and 30,411 in 2013 and 2014 respectively.

“Judgment Day is a great concept and a hugely popular event with the fans, but in a World Cup year it is just the kind of event which the coaches need to help inform the decision making process,” said Gatland.

Tickets are available for £10 from www.wru.wales/tickets, the WRU ticket office on Westgate Street, each of the four clubs, at local Tesco stores or by calling ticketmaster on 0844 847 1881.


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/judgement-day-iii-wales-boss-9004568


Last edited by LordDowlais on Thu 23 Apr 2015, 2:30 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 23 Apr 2015, 2:40 pm

Much better.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 23 Apr 2015, 2:43 pm

That's good now! Wink

Positivity.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 23 Apr 2015, 3:25 pm

Records are tumbling. Shocked

Could this be the highest attended Pro12 event ever ?

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Post by The Saint Thu 23 Apr 2015, 4:12 pm

Now all we need is for Rev to attend and everybody is happy.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 23 Apr 2015, 4:17 pm

The Saint wrote:Now all we need is for Rev to attend and everybody is happy.

Are you going Saint ? Not even you could turn down two games for a tenner surely ?

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Post by The Saint Thu 23 Apr 2015, 4:21 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Saint wrote:Now all we need is for Rev to attend and everybody is happy.

Are you going Saint ? Not even you could turn down two games for a tenner surely ?

True. I might ask around to see who's up for it (my closest friends are all avid football fans). But first, I'm completing my final project of the year, so that takes precedent... Hopefully I don't procrastinate and get a lot done tomorrow.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 23 Apr 2015, 4:23 pm

Well I will be there, and I will be part of history of being involved in the biggest attended Pro12 event to date. Yahoo

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Post by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 23 Apr 2015, 4:25 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't think you should have changed the title of the thread. There might be more people attending Judgement Day, but it's not 'bigger' than the Champions Cup final. That's the pinnacle of European club rugby. Judgement Day isn't even the pinnacle of the Pro12.
Not yet!

You lads that are agin it (and I get the bit about the home advantage) are a bit like Opera fans when Pavarotti's Nessun Dorma was a big hit at the time of Italia 90 (Soccer) "We loved it before all you riff raff found out about it now it's just sh1t"

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 23 Apr 2015, 4:30 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Not yet!

You lads that are agin it (and I get the bit about the home advantage) are a bit like Opera fans when Pavarotti's Nessun Dorma was a big hit at the time of Italia 90 (Soccer) "We loved it before all you riff raff found out about it now it's just sh1t"

Too right, and when the four regions of Wales top the league 1st to 4th we can have a 3rd/4th place playoff, and a final as the pinnacle of the season. Now let me just read that Pro12 criterea for the final of the Pro12.........oh feck...... oh well we can all but dream. Run

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Post by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 23 Apr 2015, 4:33 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Well I will be there, and I will be part of history of being involved in the biggest attended Pro12 event to date. Yahoo

Looks like you might be right. I think this 51700 is the previous record (The tickets were a lot dearer though) Smile

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/team/results/11741.php

Well done Welsh Rugby. Marketing is the way to go. IMHO. Now if you could just rotate home advantage perhaps everyone would be happy. (Not sure about Cardiff Blues though. That IS home advantage surely)

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Post by Coleman Thu 23 Apr 2015, 5:02 pm

Happy as a Blues fan to sacrafice that one game a year for this. Just wish as a season ticket holder (terrace) they hadn't shafted us with lower tier seats.

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Post by Breadvan Thu 23 Apr 2015, 6:12 pm

Gutted I can't make it this year. Nice weather, big crowd, few beers, a bonus point win v the blues Wink
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Post by Guest Thu 23 Apr 2015, 6:40 pm

Coleman wrote:Happy as a Blues fan to sacrafice that one game a year for this. Just wish as a season ticket holder (terrace) they hadn't shafted us with lower tier seats.

Serious question Coleman - do you really see it as losing home advantage when your home ground is physically attached to the Millenium Stadium. I mean, it's actually physically attached like a Siamese twin! Is that not still a home fixture??? Or is it more the advantage in terms of majority crowd, majority of noise from Blues fans, etc that you lose? I'm just not sure what you're sacrificing!

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Post by Pot Hale Thu 23 Apr 2015, 6:55 pm

Are these games part of the Pro12 or just for Gatland to select his RWC players?

Nice idea if it's theatre - maybe called it Showcase Day though.

Come see all the top Welsh players* battle it out with other Welsh players for a place in Gatland's Guns squad.








* some players may not actually be included in this game. Must be bought separately.

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Post by Coleman Thu 23 Apr 2015, 7:09 pm

Griff wrote:
Coleman wrote:Happy as a Blues fan to sacrafice that one game a year for this. Just wish as a season ticket holder (terrace) they hadn't shafted us with lower tier seats.

Serious question Coleman - do you really see it as losing home advantage when your home ground is physically attached to the Millenium Stadium. I mean, it's actually physically attached like a Siamese twin! Is that not still a home fixture??? Or is it more the advantage in terms of majority crowd, majority of noise from Blues fans, etc that you lose? I'm just not sure what you're sacrificing!

No I guess I don't. The game is still in the same location so none of what I do on a match day changes. In some ways it's better than a normal game as it reminds me of the Glos game we played at the stadium (lets ignore the Tigers game). It's honestly great to see so many people out for a non international match I do not mind if we don't get to play at the CAP.

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Post by Pot Hale Thu 23 Apr 2015, 7:24 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Well I will be there, and I will be part of history of being involved in the biggest attended Pro12 event to date. Yahoo

Who is organising the matches/event?
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Post by Guest Thu 23 Apr 2015, 7:38 pm

What's your problem now Pot Hale? Looking to antagonise again by the looks of it.

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Thu 23 Apr 2015, 8:47 pm

Can't be arsed reading 3 pages of posts (and I thought our thread was full of utter pish) but just to say a big well done for selling so many tickets sold. A good effort from all the regions fans and, presumably,good marketing and pricing from the WRU clap

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Post by Pot Hale Fri 24 Apr 2015, 12:33 am

Griff wrote:What's your problem now Pot Hale? Looking to antagonise again by the looks of it.

None at all, Griff.

I was just wondering who were the brains behind selling so many tickets to two league matches.   Could the Pro12 hire them full-time to advise on promoting the league?  50,000 crowd is a pretty good achievement in the light of falling attendances elsewhere. Makes you wonder could the Irish provinces hire Croke Park for a similar set of interpros each year?
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Post by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri 24 Apr 2015, 1:24 am

Could the dragons and scarlet rotate home advantage then? And leave the other fixture......

Or.......

Could the other 3 rotate home advantage ( which would require the games to be played between different combos each year)

Because it strikes me as the highest profile event in Welsh club rugby and surely that has to be good for all regions

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Apr 2015, 8:59 am

Pot Hale wrote:
Griff wrote:What's your problem now Pot Hale? Looking to antagonise again by the looks of it.

None at all, Griff.

I was just wondering who were the brains behind selling so many tickets to two league matches.   Could the Pro12 hire them full-time to advise on promoting the league?  50,000 crowd is a pretty good achievement in the light of falling attendances elsewhere.  Makes you wonder could the Irish provinces hire Croke Park for a similar set of interpros each year?  

Apologies, Pot Hale. I think the constant fire fighting on here has got the better of me. I saw your previous post poking fun (I thought) about the absent international players and so instinctively looked for the barbs in your latest post. Doh

To answer your question: I'm guessing the it's Millennium Stadium group (or whatever they're called) who are owned by the WRU. However, I think the big thing here is just the MS. I don't want to sound too over the top, but I think it's like Mecca for some people. As soon something is linked to it the attendances just rise. Hasn't always been the case I suppose (Judgement Day has been a slow starter). But generally they seem to get good numbers when they put on an event. Blues v Leicester was a 50,000 game a few years back I think. I gave the example earlier in the thread, but they managed to get 70,000 in there to watch the TV broadcast of Wales playing in the World Cup in NZ. That's either very clever marketing or shows that fans are drawn to the MS (and of course international rugby) much more so that the club game (which we already knew). Ticket prices could be the reason (£10 tomorrow) but the regions are pretty cheap, at least if you commit to the season. I think it was £180 for a Dragons season ticket. And that was in the posh seats. Cheaper on the terrace at around £120 I think. It worked out at about £10 a game. Perhaps it's in the one off and walk-up ticketing where they need to drastically reduce the pricing?

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:03 am

LordDowlais wrote:Well I will be there, and I will be part of history of being involved in the biggest attended Pro12 event to date. Yahoo

Yahoo indeed. What a thing to add to your cv

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:04 am

I like the way they have marketed this event, the battle of EAST V WEST. Laugh

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:09 am

Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Well I will be there, and I will be part of history of being involved in the biggest attended Pro12 event to date. Yahoo

Yahoo indeed. What a thing to add to your cv

OK Rev, we get it, you are not a fan of the event, let it go. OK


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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:11 am

LordDowlais wrote:I like the way they have marketed this event, the battle of EAST V WEST. Laugh

What's funny?

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:12 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:If you think I'm less of a Dragons fan

Sorry to get in the way of a good rant and all that, but I do not think you are less of ma Dragons fan by not going, I just do not understand why you would not go, two games for a tenner, and  good day out, also, if it is not about showcasing regional rugby, then it must be about money, but I THINK it is about showcasing the regional game, you disagree, fair enough, but if you disagree, then please could you tell me what you think JDIII is about ?

Right, so again if it is about that, why not rotate the games? Why didn't we move our quarter final v Cardiff?

It isn't a tenner for me, it's technically free. I'm sure it's great to be sat with a crowd with airhorns etc, but I'd sooner be able to stand wherever I want on a terrace and enjoy the benefits a game at RP can bring (ie no diluted atmosphere for a "home game")

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:13 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:Right, in simple terms for you. Who are the two favourites on the weekend? I'll give you a clue, it isn't the two who have given up a home game. So what fans are Dragons likely to attract on the back of this?

So it's a conspiracy by the WRU to hand the advantage to Ospreys and Scarlets ? Is this what you are getting at ?

Oh dear.

Anyway, back to the rugby.

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:18 am

Risca Rev wrote:Anyway, back to the rugby.

At last, something we can agree on. Ale

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Post by Coleman Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:18 am

Over 45,000 tickets sold and heading towards 50,000. Man on the radio says with the nice weather (thought it was windy showers) there could be 5,000 walk ups.


Last edited by Coleman on Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:20 am

Coleman wrote:Over 45,000 tickets sold and heading towarda 50,000. Man on the radio says with the nice weather (thought it was windy showers) there could be 5,000 walk ups.

This is brilliant, I would love to see 50-55000 people there tomorrow. Yahoo

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:33 am

Funny that there's no actual match threads for tomorrow!

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:37 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:Anyway, back to the rugby.

At last, something we can agree on. Ale

Yes, because you keep dodging the question I keep asking you.

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:38 am

Griff wrote:Funny that there's no actual match threads for tomorrow!

Surely this is sufficient. The all singing, all dancing thread. Sunshine indoors.

Anyway, back to the rugby.

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 24 Apr 2015, 9:46 am

Risca Rev wrote:Yes, because you keep dodging the question I keep asking you.

What question is that my old chum ?

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Post by wayne Fri 24 Apr 2015, 10:29 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Coleman wrote:Over 45,000 tickets sold and heading towarda 50,000. Man on the radio says with the nice weather (thought it was windy showers) there could be 5,000 walk ups.

This is brilliant, I would love to see 50-55000 people there tomorrow. Yahoo
Yes that sort of crowd would be fantastic, I'll be there as on the previous 2 occasions, it was a good day out, unlike some on here I'm on the lower tier and have found it great on previous years.

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Post by doctornickolas Fri 24 Apr 2015, 11:18 am

Do you think that from this the regions may learn some basic economics, ie that lowering the price generally increases the demand.

I would like to see all of them do this to fill their grounds each week.

If you buy a season ticket then the price per game is fair. However single tickets are just too much for the product on show.

Cardiff Blues are the most clueless

Category A games:

Seating tickets £23. Terrace £19. Juniors £13 & £9.

Students £15 terrace only. WTF?

Cardiff has a massive student population but I bet none go at £15 a pop. Students will drink their own body weight in beer though. I bet at £5 with a student section though it would generate some atmosphere.

Most of the other regions let kids in free. Not Blues though. Crazy.

And they have a ground that holds 12k and get about 4k/5k for games. Yet it seems this is the mighty Cardiff, world renowned and respected, except that hasn't been the case for about 35 years but they are too stupid to get it.

Rant over.








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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Apr 2015, 11:22 am

They would need to double the crowd to tread water, if they halved the price.

That's simple economics.

Do you think they'll double the crowd?

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Post by LordDowlais Fri 24 Apr 2015, 11:27 am

Well said Doc. clap

Incidentally, I was at a loose end last Saturday afternoon, what with no Pro12 games to watch, and none of the Welsh regions playing at home, so I went to watch Merthyr FC play, £9 to get in, and all kids under 16 get in for free, it was bouncing there, ok the ground needs a bit of work, but I got talking to one of the people who run it, Merthyr FC is owned by the fans, and he is the head honcho, anyway he said that they have managed to get their hands on over 1m quid to upgrade the place. It got me thinking, ok I do not mind paying my £20 each time to watch the regions, but if they all had the same scheme as Merthyr FC then they would more than likely fill out the place every week. It's just a thought though.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Apr 2015, 11:33 am

LordDowlais wrote: I do not mind paying my £20 each time to watch the regions, but if they all had the same scheme as Merthyr FC then they would more than likely fill out the place every week. It's just a thought though.

How would the finances work then? Take the Blues as an example with their 12,000 capacity ground.

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Apr 2015, 11:40 am

Supposition rife with you again Dowlais

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Apr 2015, 11:40 am

LordDowlais wrote:Well said Doc. clap

Incidentally, I was at a loose end last Saturday afternoon, what with no Pro12 games to watch, and none of the Welsh regions playing at home, so I went to watch Merthyr FC play,  £9 to get in, and all kids under 16 get in for free, it was bouncing there, ok the ground needs a bit of work, but I got talking to one of the people who run it, Merthyr FC is owned by the fans, and he is the head honcho, anyway he said that they have managed to get their hands on over 1m quid to upgrade the place. It got me thinking, ok I do not mind paying my £20 each time to watch the regions, but if they all had the same scheme as Merthyr FC then they would more than likely fill out the place every week. It's just a thought though.

I see what you're saying, but as Chunky points out if you half the price you need to double the crowd you would have got to get the same income in. Sometimes capacity wise that's not possible. Take the Dragons - since the redevelopment of the Argus terrace into seating our capacity is now circa a paltry 8000. We get around 6,000 at each game. Here's some calcs, although I appreciate that season tickets muddy the waters somewhat:

So, lets say everyone paid £20 a ticket. 6000 x 20 = £120,000 for an average game

If you half it to get more in, and the most we can have is 8,000: 8000 x £10 = £80,000. So we've made a loss of £40k.

But certainly for the less attractive games the prices should be cheaper. But then, they are. You can usually pick up a cheap deal on 'Living Social' or groupon for less attractive Dragons games.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 24 Apr 2015, 11:44 am

Selling drinks and food muddies the water more. Also more attractive to sponsors signing players if your stadium is full every week.

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Apr 2015, 11:49 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Selling drinks and food muddies the water more. Also more attractive to sponsors signing players if your stadium is full every week.

Oh definitely. I think there's plenty of merit in doing it. But not every game, and perhaps not when you're near capacity.

If it as as easy as halving the price then everyone (with space in the stadium) would be doing it Wink

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Apr 2015, 11:51 am

Griff wrote:

If it as as easy as halving the price then everyone (with space in the stadium) would be doing it Wink

It's just another of those things that people blurt out before thinking / researching it. Like "Ireland do it why can't we"

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Post by doctornickolas Fri 24 Apr 2015, 11:52 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:They would need to double the crowd to tread water, if they halved the price.

That's simple economics.

Do you think they'll double the crowd?

Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't really matter though does it because that is not the only variable here.

A regular 12k crowd will spend significantly more or beer, tea, hotdogs and merchandise than a 4k one.

A 12k crowd week in week out will attract more sponsors.

A 12k crowd will mean recruiting better players is easier. Almost every player would rather play in front of a full house than play to the current crowds and is something that those going to France consistently mention.

Better players = better results which means better prize money, prestige and again better sponsorship deals.

The income from the paying punter is not as much an earner as sponsorship and prize money.

People have got out of the habit of going to games. Once you are at the point where you are turning people away on match day then you can look at raising prices again. Again basic economics.

Keeping prices high and hoping things will get better is so plan at all.









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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Apr 2015, 11:55 am

Scarlets

Liam Williams; Harry Robinson, Hadleigh Parkes, Scott Williams, Kyle Evans; Rhys Priestland, Aled Davies; Phil John, Ken Owens (c), Pete Edwards, Jake Ball, Lewis Rawlins, Aaron Shingler, John Barclay, James Davies.


Replacements (I think):
Ryan Elias, Wyn Jones, Jacobie Adriaanse, Rob McCusker, Rory Pitman, Rhodri Williams, Steve Shingler, Regan King.

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Post by Coleman Fri 24 Apr 2015, 11:55 am

I don't think the Blues do enough to attract the students. £15 is mental. It was £8 two seasons ago for a student terrace ticket (£10 for HC). Ideally they should be pushing that market very hard as students like to wet their beak. It's very hard for me to get casual fans to come now with the prices. Also kids for free is just standard and they should be paying for three/four schools a week to be bussd in for free from around the region. You make your money back from merch, drinks and food in the long run. I'd rather have 5,000 kids and students in for free/dirt cheap than the CAP be empty. It's bad for the players, it's lonely for me as a North Terrace ST and it looks bad on TV which makes sponsors less interested (the real money).

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Apr 2015, 11:59 am

A student ticket at Cardiff Blues is £6

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Apr 2015, 12:04 pm

doctornickolas wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:They would need to double the crowd to tread water, if they halved the price.

That's simple economics.

Do you think they'll double the crowd?

Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't really matter though does it because that is not the only variable here.

A regular 12k crowd will spend significantly more or beer, tea, hotdogs and merchandise than a 4k one.

A 12k crowd week in week out will attract more sponsors.

A 12k crowd will mean recruiting better players is easier. Almost every player would rather play in front of a full house than play to the current crowds and is something that those going to France consistently mention.

Better players = better results which means better prize money, prestige and again better sponsorship deals.

The income from the paying punter is not as much an earner as sponsorship and prize money.

People have got out of the habit of going to games. Once you are at the point where you are turning people away on match day then you can look at raising prices again. Again basic economics.

Keeping prices high and hoping things will get better is so plan at all.  





Can't argue with much of that really. And this is why I've got issues with the Dragons Sunday fixtures. Yes I know it's down to TV deals or something. But the simple fact is that when you look at attendance stats they are lower on a Sunday at the Dragons. Not a problem a couple of times a season. But 14 times this season, 10 at home. 10 home games x the loss in food, beer, and entrance fees adds up to a significant figure I expect. I don't know the reasons - whether social, cultural or what. But the figures are what they are. OK maybe we get more TV money. But as you say half empty stadiums won't attract the sponsors or the players. The stats show that Saturday afternoon and Friday evening attract more fans.

In terms of habit. I think you're right too. Fans from other nations ask us what the issue is with Sunday games. Well Welsh club rugby was built on Saturday 3pm kick offs (roughly). People now say they don't want it at that time as they're playing rugby and then can't follow their region. But that never stopped the old Welsh top league from putting games on at that time previously. Newport v Pontypool in the past would be on a saturday regardless of whether others were playing club rugby at the time. And attendances were better then, we're told. That habit was ingrained in people. Now the fixtures fly around all over the place. Sometimes Friday, some Saturday (rarely), Sunday, Thursday for Euro Cup. The routine and habit has gone.

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Post by doctornickolas Fri 24 Apr 2015, 12:07 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:A student ticket at Cardiff Blues is £6

For a category C game.

Category A - £15
Category B - £11.

My original email says category A.

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