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A New Low for Pro 12 Referees

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Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sat 25 Apr 2015, 5:56 pm

[Edited so we don't get in trouble]

Something needs done here and quickly or the credibility of a bloody good competition is gone.
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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat 25 Apr 2015, 5:58 pm

Didn't Glasgow hammer Connacht?

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Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sat 25 Apr 2015, 6:02 pm

Yes but something needs done re refereeing standards - esp homer TMOs. Disgrace today in West Ireland.
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Post by TJ Sat 25 Apr 2015, 6:04 pm

It wasn't one of Mitreas best games but take a chill pill! I've seen Mitrea have very good games

On the try - he saw the grounding asked about a possible knock on and asked "any reason not to award the try" TMO said no clear and obvious knock on. If there is a mistake its the TMOs Yellow cards - both harsh but not unreasonable. He did seem to be looking for Glasgow to infringe at the breakdown. 50 / 50 calls went against glasgow today. Thats the way it goes.

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Post by Pot Hale Sat 25 Apr 2015, 6:06 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Didn't Glasgow hammer Connacht?

Yes - but don't let the facts get n the way of a good old Pro12 moan about referees again - and the endless claims that all the Irish ones are corrupt, and therefore, the provinces and the IRFU are as well.

And what's more these kind of claims are allowed stand.
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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat 25 Apr 2015, 6:09 pm

So lets get this straight. Glasgow beat Connacht 31-13 in the sportsground and somehow the ref is being paid by the IRFU?!?

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Post by Notch Sat 25 Apr 2015, 6:28 pm

I have been busy all day and haven't been able to see any rugby. Does anyone have a link to a video of the TMO decision?

I'm a fan of Mitrea- I've seen him ref us against Scottish and Welsh sides on many occasions and he's always been impartial. I didn't see the game today but I find it hard to believe that one poor game erases his excellent previous record.
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Post by Nematode Sat 25 Apr 2015, 7:23 pm

I saw the game and some of Mitrea's decisions were woeful, however, a lot of calls were 50/50.

He certainly wasn't helped by Glasgow's ill discipline (which was shocking; before the game ended, approx 60 mins, they had had 13 penalties against 3). I recall Euan Murray lying on the ground like a seal scooping the ball back right under Mitrea's nose - a clear penalty.

But when you get a side that is giving away some quite blatant penalties, and one that isn't, of course the ref is going to ping the team that's giving away clearer penalties more on 50/50 calls.

Overall, Mitrea had a bad day reffing but Glasgow really didn't do their best to keep down some stupid penalties that were indisputable.

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Post by Nematode Sat 25 Apr 2015, 7:57 pm

Come on, it's only a game.

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Post by SecretFly Sat 25 Apr 2015, 8:04 pm

So now even the Refs that aren't Irish are cheating for the Irish?

Original slant on an oft told tale. Congratulations on the creative thinking, Century Man.


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Post by Guest Sat 25 Apr 2015, 8:18 pm

A New Low for Pro 12 Referees 1347041234

(Always wanted to use one of those!)

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Post by Nematode Sat 25 Apr 2015, 8:36 pm

Griff wrote:A New Low for Pro 12 Referees 1347041234

(Always wanted to use one of those!)

Me too, I'll take the next seat along:


-----------                  A New Low for Pro 12 Referees 1347041234

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Post by jimbopip Sat 25 Apr 2015, 8:49 pm

A Schiz, chill man, chill.
We're in the play offs.
Yes Fozzie was very unlucky to be carded. Yes the ref had a shocker. Yes, it was almost impossible to see if the ball was gronded/knocked on/ in the same post code as the try line. Yes Seymour's yellow could only have been for Thoughtcrime and if Big Brother was watching the game that closely he was one up on the ref.
But we're in the play offs. Again. And you don't live in Brotheltown.
Chill. and Breathe. Hug

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 25 Apr 2015, 8:54 pm

Relax Schiz, George Carlin will defend you in court pro bono...

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Post by LordDowlais Sat 25 Apr 2015, 8:55 pm

Erm, I think I will join in with this one when I am sober tomorrow, I am to drunk to be saying something on this subject, I will look forward to this one in the morning.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 25 Apr 2015, 9:01 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Erm, I think I will join in with this one when I am sober tomorrow, I am to drunk to be saying something on this subject, I will look forward to this one in the morning.

Can't wait....

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Post by Cyril Sat 25 Apr 2015, 9:06 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Erm, I think I will join in with this one when I am sober tomorrow, I am to drunk to be saying something on this subject, I will look forward to this one in the morning.

Come on LD, get drunker and get typing! A New Low for Pro 12 Referees 1347041234

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Post by SecretFly Sat 25 Apr 2015, 9:12 pm

I'm looking forward to what Lord sounds like sober. That'll be a first, I reckon.

A New Low for Pro 12 Referees 1347041234


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Post by Guest Sat 25 Apr 2015, 9:13 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Erm, I think I will join in with this one when I am sober tomorrow, I am to drunk to be saying something on this subject, I will look forward to this one in the morning.

Please stay away from the "Pro12: The Facts" thread!

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Post by LordDowlais Sat 25 Apr 2015, 9:16 pm

You all know what I think about our Pro12 refs, I had better wait until I am of more sober mind before I start ranting. chin

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat 25 Apr 2015, 9:25 pm

LordDowlais wrote:You all know what I think about our Pro12 refs, I had better wait until I am of more sober mind before I start ranting. chin
Or wait until you actually watch the game?

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Post by SecretFly Sat 25 Apr 2015, 9:37 pm

Dee Ref??
Hee's a Guilty!
Mee no need to watch dees A game, idioté

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Post by Majestic83 Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:21 pm

Not seen today's incidents but over the season the standard of refereeing in the pro12 has been very poor. Can easily understand some of the comments and claims on here.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:24 pm

Majestic83 wrote:Not seen today's incidents but over the season the standard of refereeing in the pro12 has been very poor. Can easily understand some of the comments and claims on here.
Just like in every other league? There is a thread on the London Irish forum that is dedicated to bashing Wayne Barnes who would be one of the RFU's elite refs adn the Top 14 is certainly no better from the games that I've watched. The Pro12 could certainly do with more top refs but we are lucky that we at least have Owens.

I see fans complaining about the standards of refs in every league.

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Post by Majestic83 Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:29 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:Not seen today's incidents but over the season the standard of refereeing in the pro12 has been very poor. Can easily understand some of the comments and claims on here.
Just like in every other league? There is a thread on the London Irish forum that is dedicated to bashing Wayne Barnes who would be one of the RFU's elite refs adn the Top 14 is certainly no better from the games that I've watched. The Pro12 could certainly do with more top refs but we are lucky that we at least have Owens.

Nope not like every other league. The standard in the pro 12 is well below average. In some games this season it has been a disgrace.
Nigel Owens might be a high profile ref but he can come in for criticism as well. Yes he has all the "witty" comments and "banter" but he has had a fair few poor games where his refereeing of the scrum and breakdown has been like a lottery.

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Post by SecretFly Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:32 pm

London Irish?

Maybe he or that word are just allergic to each other?

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:33 pm

Majestic83 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:Not seen today's incidents but over the season the standard of refereeing in the pro12 has been very poor. Can easily understand some of the comments and claims on here.
Just like in every other league? There is a thread on the London Irish forum that is dedicated to bashing Wayne Barnes who would be one of the RFU's elite refs adn the Top 14 is certainly no better from the games that I've watched. The Pro12 could certainly do with more top refs but we are lucky that we at least have Owens.

Nope not like every other league. The standard in the pro 12 is well below average. In some games this season it has been a disgrace.
Nigel Owens might be a high profile ref but he can come in for criticism as well. Yes he has all the "witty" comments and "banter" but he has had a fair few poor games where his refereeing of the scrum and breakdown has been like a lottery.
Name all these great refs in the other leagues then because I don't see them. I would love to see some new younger refs being brought through but It doesn't look like the IRB are interested in that.

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Post by 2ndtimeround Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:34 pm

Both refs at the Millennium today were quality not just Owens, when I saw Clancy had the 2nd game I thought it might be rather a dull affair after Owens controlling the 1st match, but I have to say he allowed the game to flow well and added to a great day of Rugby.

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Post by SecretFly Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:36 pm

Majestic83 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:Not seen today's incidents but over the season the standard of refereeing in the pro12 has been very poor. Can easily understand some of the comments and claims on here.
Just like in every other league? There is a thread on the London Irish forum that is dedicated to bashing Wayne Barnes who would be one of the RFU's elite refs adn the Top 14 is certainly no better from the games that I've watched. The Pro12 could certainly do with more top refs but we are lucky that we at least have Owens.

Nope not like every other league. The standard in the pro 12 is well below average. In some games this season it has been a disgrace.
Nigel Owens might be a high profile ref but he can come in for criticism as well. Yes he has all the "witty" comments and "banter" but he has had a fair few poor games where his refereeing of the scrum and breakdown has been like a lottery.

Who measures the Average of the Standard? The fans in their soft seats or bar room stools?

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Post by Majestic83 Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:38 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:Not seen today's incidents but over the season the standard of refereeing in the pro12 has been very poor. Can easily understand some of the comments and claims on here.
Just like in every other league? There is a thread on the London Irish forum that is dedicated to bashing Wayne Barnes who would be one of the RFU's elite refs adn the Top 14 is certainly no better from the games that I've watched. The Pro12 could certainly do with more top refs but we are lucky that we at least have Owens.

Nope not like every other league. The standard in the pro 12 is well below average. In some games this season it has been a disgrace.
Nigel Owens might be a high profile ref but he can come in for criticism as well. Yes he has all the "witty" comments and "banter" but he has had a fair few poor games where his refereeing of the scrum and breakdown has been like a lottery.
Name all these great refs in the other leagues then because I don't see them. I would love to see some new younger refs being brought through but It doesn't look like the IRB are interested in that.

No idea what their names are but having watched a lot of super rugby, top 14, English Premiership and even a bit of the Japanese league the standard of ref in the pro 12 is below them.
If you are happy with the current state of referee in pro 12 then I feel for you!

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Post by Majestic83 Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:40 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:Not seen today's incidents but over the season the standard of refereeing in the pro12 has been very poor. Can easily understand some of the comments and claims on here.
Just like in every other league? There is a thread on the London Irish forum that is dedicated to bashing Wayne Barnes who would be one of the RFU's elite refs adn the Top 14 is certainly no better from the games that I've watched. The Pro12 could certainly do with more top refs but we are lucky that we at least have Owens.

Nope not like every other league. The standard in the pro 12 is well below average. In some games this season it has been a disgrace.
Nigel Owens might be a high profile ref but he can come in for criticism as well. Yes he has all the "witty" comments and "banter" but he has had a fair few poor games where his refereeing of the scrum and breakdown has been like a lottery.

Who measures the Average of the Standard?  The fans in their soft seats or bar room stools?

Fans, players, journalists, coaches past referees.
Fairly easy to see poor decisions week in week out at pro 12!

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Post by SecretFly Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:40 pm

Maybe you're a 'neutral' when watching those other Leagues?

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Post by Imperialbigdave Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:41 pm

Why do people still bite when 21st century schizoid man dangles his hook? He throws his toys out the pram and screams conspriacy anytime a ref doesnt penalise the opposition off the park and fawn over the warriors. If any other poster on this forum actually claimed that the IRFU are paying refs theyd get mocked for being a loon.
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Post by Majestic83 Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:45 pm

Nope I support teams in some of those leagues. a vast majority of those games I watch I am a neutral though same as in the pro 12. I have criticised decisions that have gone in favour of my team when it has been blatantly obvious was a poor call.
I want a good standard of ref in pro 12 for all teams involved but currently it is far from that and it is easy to see.

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Post by SecretFly Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:46 pm

Majestic83 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:Not seen today's incidents but over the season the standard of refereeing in the pro12 has been very poor. Can easily understand some of the comments and claims on here.
Just like in every other league? There is a thread on the London Irish forum that is dedicated to bashing Wayne Barnes who would be one of the RFU's elite refs adn the Top 14 is certainly no better from the games that I've watched. The Pro12 could certainly do with more top refs but we are lucky that we at least have Owens.

Nope not like every other league. The standard in the pro 12 is well below average. In some games this season it has been a disgrace.
Nigel Owens might be a high profile ref but he can come in for criticism as well. Yes he has all the "witty" comments and "banter" but he has had a fair few poor games where his refereeing of the scrum and breakdown has been like a lottery.

Who measures the Average of the Standard?  The fans in their soft seats or bar room stools?

Fans, players, journalists, coaches past referees.
Fairly easy to see poor decisions week in week out at pro 12!

I think it doesn't stand up to logic, Majestic.  Where are all these perfect refs when Pro12 ones get big International games over and over and over?  Barnes and the Irish guy???  what'shisname - that's the only two AP League guys I see crop up in International.  I also know what we all think of the French and English or even Australian and New Zealand 'Best' refs.  We all have various opinions on them and often not so complimentary ones.  And those are presumably the cream of their crop! Wink How come we're not all universally oohing and ahhhing these better sorts from other Leagues?

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Post by SecretFly Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:50 pm

Imperialbigdave wrote:Why do people still bite when 21st century schizoid man dangles his hook? He throws his toys out the pram and screams conspriacy anytime a ref doesnt penalise the opposition off the park and fawn over the warriors. If any other poster on this forum actually claimed that the IRFU are paying refs theyd get mocked for being a loon.

We thought it kinder not to mock Century Man as a 'loon' and decided to humour him instead Wink

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Post by The Saint Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:50 pm

I haven't watched the game, but always thought Mitrea was one of the better refs in the Pro12. I've also always thought that Glasgow are sometimes prone to a high penalty count away from home, and have been for a while - but I guess you could say that about most teams. So no I don't think there's any bias or cheating going on, but maybe a bit of the standard incompetence here and there.

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Post by Majestic83 Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:52 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:Not seen today's incidents but over the season the standard of refereeing in the pro12 has been very poor. Can easily understand some of the comments and claims on here.
Just like in every other league? There is a thread on the London Irish forum that is dedicated to bashing Wayne Barnes who would be one of the RFU's elite refs adn the Top 14 is certainly no better from the games that I've watched. The Pro12 could certainly do with more top refs but we are lucky that we at least have Owens.

Nope not like every other league. The standard in the pro 12 is well below average. In some games this season it has been a disgrace.
Nigel Owens might be a high profile ref but he can come in for criticism as well. Yes he has all the "witty" comments and "banter" but he has had a fair few poor games where his refereeing of the scrum and breakdown has been like a lottery.

Who measures the Average of the Standard?  The fans in their soft seats or bar room stools?

Fans, players, journalists, coaches past referees.
Fairly easy to see poor decisions week in week out at pro 12!

I think it doesn't stand up to logic, Majestic.  Where are all these perfect refs when Pro12 ones get big International games over and over and over?  Barnes and the Irish guy???  what'shisname - that's the only two AP League guys I see crop up in International.  I also know what we all think of the French and English or even Australian and New Zealand Best coaches.  We all have various opinions on them and often not so complimentary ones.  How come we're not all universally oohing and ahhhing these better sorts from other Leagues?

Is there that many refs from the pro 12 getting big international games apart from Clancy and Owens?

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Post by SecretFly Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:55 pm

So same number as the rest of them?  Point is - International rugby trusts our best for big competitions.  Whilst the Pro12 crowd constantly sneer one of them as incompetent Wink

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that jazz.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:55 pm

Majestic83 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:Not seen today's incidents but over the season the standard of refereeing in the pro12 has been very poor. Can easily understand some of the comments and claims on here.
Just like in every other league? There is a thread on the London Irish forum that is dedicated to bashing Wayne Barnes who would be one of the RFU's elite refs adn the Top 14 is certainly no better from the games that I've watched. The Pro12 could certainly do with more top refs but we are lucky that we at least have Owens.

Nope not like every other league. The standard in the pro 12 is well below average. In some games this season it has been a disgrace.
Nigel Owens might be a high profile ref but he can come in for criticism as well. Yes he has all the "witty" comments and "banter" but he has had a fair few poor games where his refereeing of the scrum and breakdown has been like a lottery.
Name all these great refs in the other leagues then because I don't see them. I would love to see some new younger refs being brought through but It doesn't look like the IRB are interested in that.

No idea what their names are but having watched a lot of super rugby, top 14, English Premiership and even a bit of the Japanese league the standard of ref in the pro 12 is below them.
If you are happy with the current state of referee in pro 12 then I feel for you!
When did I say I was happy with the standard? I said at least we have Owens! refereeing is a problem world wide because this is a very tough game to offciate.

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Post by VinceWLB Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:59 pm

Where is Fitzgibbon these days? i actually am one of those who think he wasn't that bad.

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Post by whocares Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:01 pm

Pechambert is probably the most hated ref in the world and he doesnt officiate in the P12

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Post by Majestic83 Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:03 pm

SecretFly wrote:So same number as the rest of them?  Point is - International rugby trusts our best for big competitions.  Whilst the Pro12 crowd constantly sneer one of them as incompetent Wink

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that jazz.

2 good referees against how many poor ones in the pro 12 then....yep not convincing me that the standard is actually any good!

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:06 pm

Majestic83 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:So same number as the rest of them?  Point is - International rugby trusts our best for big competitions.  Whilst the Pro12 crowd constantly sneer one of them as incompetent Wink

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that jazz.

2 good referees against how many poor ones in the pro 12 then....yep not convincing me that the standard is actually any good!
You haven't convinced that the standard is much better elsewhere so I guess you two are even then Wink

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Post by Guest Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:08 pm

Majestic83 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:Not seen today's incidents but over the season the standard of refereeing in the pro12 has been very poor. Can easily understand some of the comments and claims on here.
Just like in every other league? There is a thread on the London Irish forum that is dedicated to bashing Wayne Barnes who would be one of the RFU's elite refs adn the Top 14 is certainly no better from the games that I've watched. The Pro12 could certainly do with more top refs but we are lucky that we at least have Owens.

Nope not like every other league. The standard in the pro 12 is well below average. In some games this season it has been a disgrace.
Nigel Owens might be a high profile ref but he can come in for criticism as well. Yes he has all the "witty" comments and "banter" but he has had a fair few poor games where his refereeing of the scrum and breakdown has been like a lottery.
Name all these great refs in the other leagues then because I don't see them. I would love to see some new younger refs being brought through but It doesn't look like the IRB are interested in that.

No idea what their names are but having watched a lot of super rugby, top 14, English Premiership and even a bit of the Japanese league the standard of ref in the pro 12 is below them.
If you are happy with the current state of referee in pro 12 then I feel for you!

Hmmm...you watch a lot of S15/T14/AP, and you take note of the ref's great performances, enough to compare with those in Pro12, but you don't know any of their names?

On a side note, if you watch a lot of all those leagues, you watch too much rugby Very Happy

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A New Low for Pro 12 Referees Empty Re: A New Low for Pro 12 Referees

Post by whocares Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:08 pm

How many of the P12 refs are pro or semi pros? (Over here only 6 of them are which is part of the problem and solution)

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Post by SecretFly Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:10 pm

Majestic83 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:So same number as the rest of them?  Point is - International rugby trusts our best for big competitions.  Whilst the Pro12 crowd constantly sneer one of them as incompetent Wink

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that jazz.

2 good referees against how many poor ones in the pro 12 then....yep not convincing me that the standard is actually any good!

You're getting there.... now go back to what I said about the other International guys. We all moan off and on about them, sometimes viciously, and yet they're the considered Cream of their respective Leagues.  So what's beneath them....then?

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Post by Majestic83 Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:12 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:Not seen today's incidents but over the season the standard of refereeing in the pro12 has been very poor. Can easily understand some of the comments and claims on here.
Just like in every other league? There is a thread on the London Irish forum that is dedicated to bashing Wayne Barnes who would be one of the RFU's elite refs adn the Top 14 is certainly no better from the games that I've watched. The Pro12 could certainly do with more top refs but we are lucky that we at least have Owens.

Nope not like every other league. The standard in the pro 12 is well below average. In some games this season it has been a disgrace.
Nigel Owens might be a high profile ref but he can come in for criticism as well. Yes he has all the "witty" comments and "banter" but he has had a fair few poor games where his refereeing of the scrum and breakdown has been like a lottery.
Name all these great refs in the other leagues then because I don't see them. I would love to see some new younger refs being brought through but It doesn't look like the IRB are interested in that.

No idea what their names are but having watched a lot of super rugby, top 14, English Premiership and even a bit of the Japanese league the standard of ref in the pro 12 is below them.
If you are happy with the current state of referee in pro 12 then I feel for you!

Hmmm...you watch a lot of S15/T14/AP, and you take note of the ref's great performances, enough to compare with those in Pro12, but you don't know any of their names?

On a side note, if you watch a lot of all those leagues, you watch too much rugby Very Happy

Watch too much rugby? That's not possible!

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A New Low for Pro 12 Referees Empty Re: A New Low for Pro 12 Referees

Post by Guest Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:13 pm

So to sum up: no referee, ever, has had universal praise or support from rugby fans in domestic or international rugby. Every ref has some fans, and every ref has his knockers (so to speak). Someone says he's good, someone else says he's bad, someone else is good, but someone else is worse. Hardly worth even discussing it.

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A New Low for Pro 12 Referees Empty Re: A New Low for Pro 12 Referees

Post by SecretFly Sat 25 Apr 2015, 11:23 pm

Griff wrote:So to sum up: no referee, ever, has had universal praise or support from rugby fans in domestic or international rugby. Every ref has some fans, and every ref has his knockers (so to speak). Someone says he's good, someone else says he's bad, someone else is good, but someone else is worse. Hardly worth even discussing it.

I'd agree. Thus the conundrum..... in Pro12 land, we're always discussing it. I think it's more a fanbase issue. The Pro12 fanbase are naturally inclined to see a ref and see his faults - rather than see the sloppiness of their own players or, God forbid, the limitations of their own coaches......

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