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Newport Gwent Dragons v Edinburgh Rugby, 8 May

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Post by George Carlin Mon 04 May 2015, 7:57 am

First topic message reminder :

Newport Gwent Dragons v Edinburgh Rugby, 8 May - Page 3 Dragon10                                  Newport Gwent Dragons v Edinburgh Rugby, 8 May - Page 3 Edinbu12
Newport Gwent Dragons v Edinburgh Rugby
Friday 8 May 2015
KO: 19:30
Parade of the Dave, Newport

Not on telly, I don't think

Referee: Gary Conway (IRFU, 11th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Rhys Thomas, Ben Whitehouse (WRU)
Citing Commissioner: Jeff Mark (WRU)
TMO: Gareth Simmonds (WRU)

A. Head to Head

23 Played 23
11 Wins 11
11 Losses 11
1 Draws 1
42 Tries 48
27 Conversions 39
52 Penalties 51
3 Drop Goals 0
429 Points 471
23 Avg. Age 25

B. Form

Fri 17 April 2015 - Edinburgh Rugby 45 - 16 Newport Gwent Dragons

Sat 11 Oct 2014 - Edinburgh Rugby 24 - 10 Newport Gwent Dragons

Thu 3 Apr 2014 - Newport Gwent Dragons 19 - 23 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 13 Sep 2013 - Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 13 Newport Gwent Dragons

C. Teams

Newport Gwent Dragons
Newport Gwent Dragons v Edinburgh Rugby, 8 May - Page 3 Josie-10
Tom Prydie, Ashton Hewitt, Tyler Morgan, Jack Dixon, Hallam Amos, Jason Tovey, Luc Jones; Phil Price, T. Rhys Thomas (c), Brok Harris, Cory Hill, Rynard Landman, Nick Crosswell, Nic Cudd, Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Hugh Gustafson, Lloyd Fairbrother, Dan Way, James Thomas, Ollie Griffiths, Richie Rees, Dorian Jones, Geraint Rhys Jones.

Edinburgh Rugby
Newport Gwent Dragons v Edinburgh Rugby, 8 May - Page 3 Sara_s10
15 Jack Cuthbert
14 Dougie Fife
13 Sam Beard
12 Andries Strauss
11 Tim Visser
10 Phil Burleigh
09 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne

01 Alasdair Dickinson
02 Ross Ford
03 WP Nel
04 Fraser McKenzie
05 Ben Toolis
06 Stuart McInally (captain)
07 Hamish Watson
08 Cornell Du Preez

16 Neil Cochrane
17 Rory Sutherland
18 John Andress
19 Anton Bresler
20 Roddy Grant
21 Nathan Fowles
22 Tom Heathcote
23 Tom Brown


Last edited by George Carlin on Thu 07 May 2015, 1:53 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Post by RDW Fri 08 May 2015, 10:18 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'd take Heathcote over Strauss.

I'd take Te Rure over Strauss.

I'd take the hair from Uncle Dougie's nostrils over Strauss.

Sturgeon?

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Post by RDW Fri 08 May 2015, 10:25 pm

Solomons -

7 back to back games has certainly taken its toll on us

No s**t Sherlock!!

He's the one that has flogged the players.

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Post by Guest Sat 09 May 2015, 12:00 am

VinceWLB wrote:just seen Dragons has brought in Stankovich, here is the difference..

Huge difference. As was Landman and I think hill.

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Post by Guest Sat 09 May 2015, 12:03 am

There's no way Embra can moan about the ref. Deserved a yellow earlier than they had one. I was somewhat surprised that Edinburgh scored 5, as for the majority of the game it looked like a nilling.

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Post by Guest Sat 09 May 2015, 12:31 am

Ah so hill did start in the semi, but I can't remember him being there too long. The biggest difference today was Boris, Landman and of course motm Cudd. Boris defo had the nudge on Nel though.

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Post by The Saint Sat 09 May 2015, 12:44 am

Risca Rev wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:just seen Dragons has brought in Stankovich, here is the difference..

Huge difference. As was Landman and I think hill.

Makes you wonder what they were thinking with some of those selections for the Quarter final though. Was Stankovich being omitted then being in the starting team all of a sudden a mind game?

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Post by Guest Sat 09 May 2015, 1:15 am

I'm not sure about that. I did wonder when he was named on the bench in the programme (which was progression in itself). Then when they named the team on the announcement, nobody clicked until they named Phil price on the bench and I had to check twitter to confirm it had to be Boris in. I'm not sure if it was a mind game, but there has been at least one more time where the announced line up differs come kick off.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sat 09 May 2015, 8:24 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:I'd take Heathcote over Strauss.

I'd take Te Rure over Strauss.

I'd take the hair from Uncle Dougie's nostrils over Strauss.

Sturgeon?

mad

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Post by RDW Sat 09 May 2015, 9:05 am

Risca Rev wrote:There's no way Embra can moan about the ref. Deserved a yellow earlier than they had one. I was somewhat surprised that Edinburgh scored 5, as for the majority of the game it looked like a nilling.

Fair enough.

Solomons said we just completely failed to turn up - sounds like the case!

He's bemoaning how tired the players were after 7 games in a row but he was the one picking the same players for every game!

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Post by Guest Sat 09 May 2015, 12:08 pm

Yeah you did really. At no point did I ever doubt the result last night, which you don't often get with the Dragons. Was a fairly lethargic performance, so might need to freshen things up for next week (depending on how comfortable you are in 7th, I guess).

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Post by VinceWLB Sat 09 May 2015, 12:15 pm

I see if Connacht beat Zebre with a bonus point (25°C in Parma so suitable for running rugby) then Edinburgh could well miss out on the 7th place playoff. Leinster wont be easy at all next week, they are not very spectacular anymore but unless you are the Dragons they are still a very tough team to beat!

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Post by RDW Sat 09 May 2015, 12:29 pm

As I said I think  we'd be better off just finishing 8th - there's no way we'll beat Gloucester in the playoffs and will mean a longer break for the players pre- world cup.

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Post by The Saint Sat 09 May 2015, 1:01 pm

Bit of a loser attitude. Everybody plays the same amount of games, except I guess you have had one more. Rotate the team slightly (might still be chance for that) and get on with it..aim high and go get revenge on Glaws.

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Post by RDW Sat 09 May 2015, 1:44 pm

The Saint wrote:Bit of a loser attitude. Everybody plays the same amount of games, except I guess you have had one more. Rotate the team slightly (might still be chance for that) and get on with it..aim high and go get revenge on Glaws.

Don't get me wrong I expect the players to give their all, and the fans will back them, but the problem here is that Solomons hasn't learnt his lesson.

Last season was bad, but we completely collapsed at the end of the season because he absolutely flogged the players and hardly rotated at all. He's done the same this season and we're now showing the effects.

He says we're lacking depth, but we do have some decent back up options - particularly in the front 5.

Of course it is easy to say with hindsight but he really had to rotate players for zebre at home (worst team in the league) but didn't. His claims of using it as a training game doesn't fly with me - we're near the end of the season here, he really should know what the team needs to do by now.

As such most of the players have played 7 games in a row - including high pressure quarter and semi finals and a final.

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Post by George Carlin Sat 09 May 2015, 6:28 pm

The Zebre game was just a stupid lack of foresight.

Zebre were missing a number of good players to injury, their bench comprised a bunch of academy kids and the bloke that owned the local gelateria in Parma town centre and Solly still didn't rotate. He has nobody to blame but himself.
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Post by RDW Sat 09 May 2015, 9:43 pm

Connacht pumped zebre tonight and are now a point ahead - if we lose to Leinster we'll most likely now be 8th.

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Post by dragon4life Sat 09 May 2015, 11:31 pm

Dragons could still have been in the race if we didn't lose at Zebre

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Post by The Saint Sun 10 May 2015, 12:12 am

Sad I was shocked at that result.

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Post by RDW Sun 10 May 2015, 9:00 am

Edinburgh have had some shockers too - if we'd shown anything resembling consistency this season we'd be home and dry in 6th place!

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Post by dragon4life Sun 10 May 2015, 9:03 am

If Landman didn't get a red in the first 10 against connacht we would of won that too and when we lost to the blues by a point

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Post by VinceWLB Sun 10 May 2015, 10:03 am

dragon4life wrote:If Landman didn't get a red in the first 10 against connacht we would of won that too and when we lost to the blues by a point

I watched that, you were vastly superior to them and even with 14 men you almost won.

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Post by SecretFly Sun 10 May 2015, 10:22 am

The Would'a Could'a Cup (WCC) is a tough one to get okay. We know all about it too this year.

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Post by dragon4life Sun 10 May 2015, 11:35 am

VinceWLB wrote:
dragon4life wrote:If Landman didn't get a red in the first 10 against connacht we would of won that too and when we lost to the blues by a point

I watched that, you were vastly superior to them and even with 14 men you almost won.

Next swason if we cut out the errors we could have a chance of getting into the champions cup

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Post by The Saint Sun 10 May 2015, 11:49 am

Overall I think Dragons as a team have improved slightly. But so have Connacht and Edinburgh, and that's what has kept us out of the top 6/7.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 11 May 2015, 10:59 am

I'd say we've improved more than slightly. We've still got some way to go, but we've got a foundation to build on for next season.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 11 May 2015, 11:09 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'd say we've improved more than slightly. We've still got some way to go, but we've got a foundation to build on for next season.

I'd agree with that. We have a long way to go, particularly the backs, but Solomons has put down some really strong foundations with the pack.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 11 May 2015, 11:15 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'd say we've improved more than slightly. We've still got some way to go, but we've got a foundation to build on for next season.

I'd agree with that. We have a long way to go, particularly the backs, but Solomons has put down some really strong foundations with the pack.

I was talking about the Dragons, but I'm happy for it to be extended to include Edinburgh! Smile

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Post by RDW Mon 11 May 2015, 11:17 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'd say we've improved more than slightly. We've still got some way to go, but we've got a foundation to build on for next season.

I'd agree with that. We have a long way to go, particularly the backs, but Solomons has put down some really strong foundations with the pack.

I was talking about the Dragons, but I'm happy for it to be extended to include Edinburgh! Smile

I don't know if this is what FES was pointing out, but everything you Dragons fans have been saying about this season and looking to next season can also be applied to Edinburgh!

And while we're at it, Connacht and Scarlets too probably.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 11 May 2015, 11:32 am

I think Connacht will be disappointed at the way their season has panned out, considering how well they started. But next season should be good with more teams being competitive instead of just the usual suspects.

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Post by VinceWLB Mon 11 May 2015, 11:40 am

I still don't think those teams are going to challenge the top 5 but at least the gap should be much closer.

If i was a Scarlets fan i would be slightly worried, they look like the team which isn't improving and the others are rapidly closing the gap on them.

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Post by SecretFly Mon 11 May 2015, 12:26 pm

I'm not all so certain this is the beginning of an all-out equalising of competitiveness in Pro12 for the next number of years.
I think the WC is heavily influencing form and 'competitiveness' right now.  

This is a very unusual year.  The WC beckons, and all smaller nations feel that influence more in their domestic teams as some players try hard to make their National coaches see them above the crowd, and other 'nailed on' ones might be doing a bit of cruising and staying out of trouble.  
So there is a degree of those two things going on.  
But then also added to that we have this new system in Pro12 of qualifying for Europe.  So that's another new dynamic that sides are having to learn about on the hop - some are chasing it madly and enthusiastically (thus the exciting final stages), others are perhaps working out what rhythms they'll need in future years to sustain momentum in a number of contests now.  It's a learning curve that will be honed over the next number of seasons.

In short, this year is a flux.  I think next year, with the WC gone, will be much more important a measuring stick to judge how the Pro12 has changed.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 11 May 2015, 12:31 pm

I can't believe that Leinster will be as poor (relatively speaking) in the Pro12 next season as they have this season.

I say this with a heavy heart, but with all the departures I think Glasgow will do very well to reach the play-offs next season.

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Post by GavinDragon Mon 11 May 2015, 2:57 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'd say we've improved more than slightly. We've still got some way to go, but we've got a foundation to build on for next season.

in the forwards we are unrecognisable from the team of two years ago. We have a scrum (when Boris starts) that matches most in the league and a lineout that is a weapon from which we score tries.

Unfortunately as we have such a young backline we havent been consistent enough and made errors in key games. However we have two real gems in Tyler and Amos, in Dixon someone who will be the rock of that midfield.

We just need an experienced ten and fifteen and for someone at board level to have a word with Lyn and Kingsley about the blatant nepotism that ha derailed us a but and we will be pushing for a top 6 place next year

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Tue 12 May 2015, 9:30 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'd say we've improved more than slightly. We've still got some way to go, but we've got a foundation to build on for next season.

We just need an experienced ten and fifteen and for someone at board level to have a word with Lyn and Kingsley about the blatant nepotism that ha derailed us a but and we will be pushing for a top 6 place next year

Jeez, you're lucky.We need an experienced ten TO fifteen. Our backs have been mince this season because they never see the damned ball

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 13 May 2015, 9:26 am

I think that's a bit harsh IYA. When Burleigh was at 12 with Tonks at 10 we looked much better as a backline, and I think Sam Beard has been quietly effective all season. There's also no arguing either that Sam H-C hasn't had a stormer this season.

Where we have really lost out is workrate from our wingers, and interventions from 15. This is where other teams take far more risks than we do in moving players out of position. Visser, for example, does two things: (i) takes the short ball off the back of the ruck at pace, which is more often than not more telegraphed and obvious than the Nat spin room, or (ii) just stands out wide waiting for the ball to come his way. Similarly our 15, usually Jack Cuthbert, has been reluctant to attack the line, making line breaks much much harder to come by. All in all we are too predictable and conservative, and were we to sign Savea, Dagg and Folau I don't see things changing much until the coaching staff allow the players more freedom.

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Post by George Carlin Wed 13 May 2015, 9:45 am

Does anyone know why Tom Brown has fallen out of favour at 15? He seemed to be the answer a few seasons ago with Jim Thompson having left the scene.

Is Cutherbert with his safe hands and tectonic plate speed of movement really a better option?
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Post by RDW Wed 13 May 2015, 9:48 am

I like Tom Brown as a player - he provides so much energy and I've never seen a player with so much disregard for his safety.

He doesn't overly fit into the Solomons mould though - Cuthbert is a big, strong, slow player who can kick like a mule.

I'd prefer Tom Brown, although I think he's maybe better served on the wing.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 13 May 2015, 10:15 am

Tom Brown could be a useful counter attacking 15, but Solomons doesn't like counter attacking players - too risky. Cuthbert is ideal for his purposes, good under the high ball, strong tackler and with a big boot on him.

I think it's a shame that Brown hasn't been given more of a chance at 15, and I don't think he's particularly effective on the wing.

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