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Swalec Cup Final and Regional Players

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doctornickolas
bedfordwelsh
The Saint
LordDowlais
wayne
Chunky Norwich
XR
Luckless Pedestrian
Pyleboy65
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Post by Pyleboy65 Tue 05 May 2015, 11:22 am

First topic message reminder :

Looking for a clarification on the rules for the Swalec Final. I have been told that each club in the Swalec Cup is limited to a maximum of 6 regional/academy players in this competition and that is one of the reasons that Pontypridd struggled on the weekend as they regularly field more than this through the regular league season.

Is it true that they regularly field Blues regional and academy players? If so I find that quite ironic due to their loathing of the Blues?

Clarification appreciated please.

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Post by wayne Wed 06 May 2015, 10:15 am

Lord, couple of points the WRU did not bail out the Dragons, Marcus Russell gave his 50% share to the WRU for the afore mentioned £1.
Who do you think I supported before Regional Rugby came in?, I supported Bridgend and after my well publicised health problems I was about to support the Celtic Warriors when they folded, I changed my allegiances to the Ospreys for the betterment of Welsh Rugby.
Pontypridd fans wouldn't go to the Brewery Field and Bridgend fans wouldn't go to Sardis Road, they with the help of that imbecile Samuels brought about the demise of the Warriors.
For my part if there is to be another Region it needs to be in North Wales, they have proved to me that they could possibly sustain another team.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 06 May 2015, 10:24 am

wayne wrote:WRU did not bail out the Dragons, Marcus Russell gave his 50% share to the WRU for the afore mentioned £1.

Did I say the WRU bailed them out ? Also, what would have happened to Dragons if the WRU did not take 50% ownership of them ?

wayne wrote:I changed my allegiances to the Ospreys for the betterment of Welsh Rugby.

I like you, watch the regions, but I also understand where the bitterness the Pontypridd fans hold comes from.

wayne wrote:For my part if there is to be another Region it needs to be in North Wales, they have proved to me that they could possibly sustain another team.

Yes I agree. 100%.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 06 May 2015, 10:27 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:They haven't lost pro rugby, they choose not to support it.

Yes they have, they have lost Warriors. Look, I do not think you understand the rivalry between Cardiff and Pontypridd pre regionalism, it was never going to work, the WRU would have been better off telling Pontypridd to embrace Ospraylia, at least there would not have been any bitter rivalry to get over before they even started.

It was no worse than the Gwent Valleys and Newport
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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 06 May 2015, 10:28 am

LordDowlais wrote:

I like you, watch the regions, but I also understand where the bitterness the Pontypridd fans hold comes from.


The biterness should go towards the powers that be. Not towards honest rugby loving folk that are just supporting their rugby team. It's pathetic.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 06 May 2015, 11:02 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:They haven't lost pro rugby, they choose not to support it.

Yes they have, they have lost Warriors. Look, I do not think you understand the rivalry between Cardiff and Pontypridd pre regionalism, it was never going to work, the WRU would have been better off telling Pontypridd to embrace Ospraylia, at least there would not have been any bitter rivalry to get over before they even started.

It was no worse than the Gwent Valleys and Newport

Exactly.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 06 May 2015, 11:43 am

I will tell you what, if any of you are ever in the unfortunate situation where, after making adjustments in the first place, then have to change again, then I will discuss this with you then, but do not for once think that any of you are on some sort of superior level when you have not had to endure what others have.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 06 May 2015, 11:48 am

Small minded Welsh villagism. "You've got what I want, so I don't like you"

Can't beat it.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 06 May 2015, 11:49 am

Regardless of what Ponty fans have 'endured', their attitude towards the Blues still stinks. They're not just biting the hand that feeds them, they pretend it's not feeding them. Also, Bridgend (and every other club covered by them) lost the Warriors, yet it's only Ponty fans who show this sense of entitlement.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 06 May 2015, 11:52 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Also, Bridgend (and every other club covered by them) lost the Warriors, yet it's only Ponty fans who show this sense of entitlement.

Bridgend were put into a "region". Pontypridd were told to support a stand alone club. There is an almighty difference. As I said earlier, the WRU would have been better off putting Ponty under the stewardship of Ospreys.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 06 May 2015, 12:03 pm

A 'stand-alone club' they're happy to borrow players from, with apparently no gratitude whatsoever.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 06 May 2015, 12:04 pm

They wouldn't last 5 minutes as a pro club.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 06 May 2015, 12:08 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:A 'stand-alone club' they're happy to borrow players from, with apparently no gratitude whatsoever.

Yep, thats right, Ponty are loaning their own player back.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 06 May 2015, 12:08 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:They wouldn't last 5 minutes as a pro club.

I agree.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 06 May 2015, 12:09 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I will tell you what, if any of you are ever in the unfortunate situation where, after making  adjustments in the first place, then have to change again, then I will discuss this with you then, but do not for once think that any of you are on some sort of superior level when you have not had to endure what others have.

But they didn't, the crowds were no better there in the whole than any of the others, Ponty fans supported them when they played at Sardis but very few supported them when they played at the Brewery Field.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 06 May 2015, 12:22 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:A 'stand-alone club' they're happy to borrow players from, with apparently no gratitude whatsoever.

Yep, thats right, Ponty are loaning their own player back.

Are they all Ponty's 'own' players? Who's paying them?

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Post by Pyleboy65 Wed 06 May 2015, 12:35 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:A 'stand-alone club' they're happy to borrow players from, with apparently no gratitude whatsoever.

Yep, thats right, Ponty are loaning their own player back.

Are they all Ponty's 'own' players? Who's paying them?


Of the 42 players (yes 42) currently registered as Pontypridd players only 7 of them have come through Pontypridd mini and junior section, so I would hardly call them Pontypridd players. They have all come from local clubs into the Pontypridd team or from local clubs into the Blues academy and then loaned to Pontypridd.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 06 May 2015, 12:42 pm

So even less reason for them to be high and mighty about things talk about hypocrisy.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 06 May 2015, 12:54 pm

Pyleboy65 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:A 'stand-alone club' they're happy to borrow players from, with apparently no gratitude whatsoever.

Yep, thats right, Ponty are loaning their own player back.

Are they all Ponty's 'own' players? Who's paying them?


Of the 42 players (yes 42) currently registered as Pontypridd players only 7 of them have come through Pontypridd mini and junior section, so I would hardly call them Pontypridd players. They have all come from local clubs into the Pontypridd team or from local clubs into the Blues academy and then loaned to Pontypridd.

Have you got a link to that information? It might come in handy on Twitter. OK

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Post by The Saint Wed 06 May 2015, 1:18 pm

Coleman wrote:
doctornickolas wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:'Ponty's Six of the Best'

No fewer than six Pontypridd players have been named in the initial Wales under 20s squad to prepare for the forthcoming Junior World Championship in Italy. The six, all Bues Academy members, are prop Dillon Lewis, hooker Liam Belcher, lock Seb Davies, scrum half Tomos Williams, outside half Jarrod Evans and centre Garyn Smith.

http://www.ponty.net/ponty-s-six-of-the-best?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Laughable. Shameless vile club.

What is laughable is the bile you and your ilk spew out.

Those are players produced by Pontypridd and who have generally come up through all the age groups with them.

So shouldn't they get the credit. Signing for the Blues academy later on is fine but why should Blues get the pat on the back.

Throughout their history Cardiff have rarely produced many players and have relied on the valleys, BNridgend and West Wales  to do most of it for them. So I find it strange that somehow Ponty are supposed to be so grateful for being allowed to play players that they have produced in the first place.

Perhaps Cardiff should pay Ponty a fee for all the time and effort that went in to producing these players.  


That isn't strictly true. Seb Davies is a Pentyrch player who joined the Blues set up at U-16's

Yeah. I mean if we can't thank professional set-ups and coaches for developing professional players then forget them and Ponty, and let us thank the Pentyrch, Porth, Ystrad, Llandaff, Cowbridge and Abercynon clubs.

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Post by The Saint Wed 06 May 2015, 1:32 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Pyleboy65 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:A 'stand-alone club' they're happy to borrow players from, with apparently no gratitude whatsoever.

Yep, thats right, Ponty are loaning their own player back.

Are they all Ponty's 'own' players? Who's paying them?


Of the 42 players (yes 42) currently registered as Pontypridd players only 7 of them have come through Pontypridd mini and junior section, so I would hardly call them Pontypridd players. They have all come from local clubs into the Pontypridd team or from local clubs into the Blues academy and then loaned to Pontypridd.

Have you got a link to that information? It might come in handy on Twitter. OK

Case closed then, surely? LP when you point this out to them (if you have to) please put the response on here. Some of us don't have twitter Very Happy.

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Post by Pyleboy65 Wed 06 May 2015, 2:31 pm

Got the information from Pontypridd website under player profiles

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 06 May 2015, 2:34 pm

That'll do!

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Post by bedfordwelsh Thu 07 May 2015, 8:39 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That'll do!

Yahoo Let us know the responses LP like some I dont use twitter. Doubt it will shut them up though and sure they will find another reason it's all the Blues fault.
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Post by Irish Londoner Thu 07 May 2015, 8:54 am

Surely this travesty is the IRFU and Dublin based PRO12s fault - justice for Ponty ! Whistle Run

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 07 May 2015, 10:22 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:A 'stand-alone club' they're happy to borrow players from, with apparently no gratitude whatsoever.

Yep, thats right, Ponty are loaning their own player back.

Which they would not be able to do if they were not part of the Blues region. If they were moved to being part of the Ospreys they would find the Blues/Cardiff picking up players from Ponty still, just like they did in the pre-regional days.
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 07 May 2015, 10:25 am

The Saint wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Pyleboy65 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:A 'stand-alone club' they're happy to borrow players from, with apparently no gratitude whatsoever.

Yep, thats right, Ponty are loaning their own player back.

Are they all Ponty's 'own' players? Who's paying them?


Of the 42 players (yes 42) currently registered as Pontypridd players only 7 of them have come through Pontypridd mini and junior section, so I would hardly call them Pontypridd players. They have all come from local clubs into the Pontypridd team or from local clubs into the Blues academy and then loaned to Pontypridd.

Have you got a link to that information? It might come in handy on Twitter. OK

Case closed then, surely? LP when you point this out to them (if you have to) please put the response on here. Some of us don't have twitter Very Happy.

I would say +1 to that. But I can already imagine the replies, "teams have traditionally fed into Ponty" or "Fupp off You know nothing"
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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 10:35 am

I do not use twitter or facebook or instagram or what ever else there might be, so I cannot comment on what goes on on those sites, but I do know about clubs that traditionally have fed Ponty, and Merthyr is one of them, there has been a long history of people playing for Merthyr and then stepping up to Pontypridd, Mefin Davies, Johnny Bryant, Robert and Peter Sidoli to name a few. I also know Aberdare and the surrounding clubs have always provided players for Pontypridd as well. So I hope that helps.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 07 May 2015, 10:56 am

LordDowlais wrote:I do not use twitter or facebook or instagram or what ever else there might be, so I cannot comment on what goes on on those sites, but I do know about clubs that traditionally have fed Ponty, and Merthyr is one of them, there has been a long history of people playing for Merthyr and then stepping up to Pontypridd, Mefin Davies, Johnny Bryant, Robert and Peter Sidoli to name a few. I also know Aberdare and the surrounding clubs have always provided players for Pontypridd as well. So I hope that helps.

This is the case with the majority of smaller sides feeding into the Welsh Prem. sides.  It just seems a bit weird that Welsh Prem. clubs (not just Ponty) seem to want to claim these players, who have been 'poached' from other sides as their own, yet they get rather up tight about the regions (standalone clubs etc) for 'poaching' their players and claiming them as their own.  

Regionalism has shown that allowing smaller sides to hold on to their players has actually helped them advance through the leagues.  Look at the likes of Carmarthen Quins, Cross Keys, Llandovery, Bedwas, Aberavon.  None of those were ever near the top table before regionalism, and now they are all sitting pretty comfortable in the Prem.  Maybe if Ponty stopped plundering teams like Merthyr etc, these teams would progress?  It is arguable that Pontypridd are actually denying people of towns like Merthyr a decent semi-pro/pro level side in the Welsh Prem. all to feed Pontypridd's selfish goals.

Again this argument is not just at Pontypridd, but all of the 'established' Welsh Prem. sides like Llanelli, Neath, Cardiff etc.
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Post by Pyleboy65 Thu 07 May 2015, 10:59 am

I think the question that need to be asked is; who benefits more from this arrangement between Pontypridd and The Blues. Whilst the Blues obviously benefit from their players getting game time and gaining experience, Pontypridd also benefit from having a better quality of player available to them throughout the league campaign.

It is a mutually beneficial process and I just wish the supporters of Pontypridd could see this instead of spouting their "never be a blue " nonsense. Perhaps the Blues should look at fostering links with the likes of Merthyr and Aberdare and lending their players to them and let Ponty get on with it !!

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 May 2015, 11:00 am

The Blues should refuse to loan or place any players at Pontypridd. Give them all to Glam Wanderers instead.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 11:10 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:Give them all to Glam Wanderers instead

Do they even have an A license ? Why would Blues want their players playing at a level below the Premiership ?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 May 2015, 11:27 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Give them all to Glam Wanderers instead

Do they even have an A license ? Why would Blues want their players playing at a level below the Premiership ?

I think you get my point.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 11:30 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Give them all to Glam Wanderers instead

Do they even have an A license ? Why would Blues want their players playing at a level below the Premiership ?

I think you get my point.

Oh, you were being sarcastic about Merthyr or Aberdare having the players. Doh

I get it. laughing

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Post by Guest Thu 07 May 2015, 11:35 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:The Blues should refuse to loan or place any players at Pontypridd. Give them all to Glam Wanderers instead.

True though. Give them to Cardiff RFC who need them more.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 11:37 am

Risca Rev wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:The Blues should refuse to loan or place any players at Pontypridd. Give them all to Glam Wanderers instead.

True though. Give them to Cardiff RFC who need them more.

And boy do they need them. Whistle

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Post by The Saint Thu 07 May 2015, 11:39 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:The Blues should refuse to loan or place any players at Pontypridd. Give them all to Glam Wanderers instead.

True though. Give them to Cardiff RFC who need them more.

And boy do they need them. Whistle

Well yeah, that's what he said...

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 11:41 am

Believe it or not Saint, but the Blues DO give Cardiff academy players as well as Pontypridd. It's not Ponty's fault that Cardiff RFC are a shambles.

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Post by The Saint Thu 07 May 2015, 11:46 am

LordDowlais wrote:Believe it or not Saint, but the Blues DO give Cardiff academy players as well as Pontypridd. It's not Ponty's fault that Cardiff RFC are a shambles.

I know that. And I wasn't saying it was Ponty's fault that Cardiff RFC are rubbish, you must be a bit paranoid to be jumping to that conclusion. Interestingly though, you seem happy that Pontypridd gather player from surrounding valleys, Merthyr for example. Yet when Blues offer some players in the Pontypridd ranks the chance at a pro contract they're worse than Hitler. You don't 'alf contradict yourself!

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 11:50 am

The Saint wrote:Yet when Blues offer some players in the Pontypridd ranks the chance at a pro contract they're worse than Hitler. You don't 'alf contradict yourself!

When have I ever said this ? Are you just looking for an argument ? I have said, that if the Blues want to take Ponty players and offer them a pro contract then that is fine, but if they are not going to be using them, let Ponty have them back to use them. I have said exactly that on this very debate, feel free to scroll back through, it is there I promise.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 11:55 am

In fact I will find it for you, posted yesterday at 2.33pm:-

LordDowlais wrote: if Blues want those players, then fine, but if they are not going to use them, then let them play for Ponty until they want them.

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Post by The Saint Thu 07 May 2015, 12:01 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Saint wrote:Yet when Blues offer some players in the Pontypridd ranks the chance at a pro contract they're worse than Hitler. You don't 'alf contradict yourself!

When have I ever said this ? Are you just looking for an argument ? I have said, that if the Blues want to take Ponty players and offer them a pro contract then that is fine, but if they are not going to be using them, let Ponty have them back to use them. I have said exactly that on this very debate, feel free to scroll back through, it is there I promise.

No, but it's the general opinion among Ponty supporters and some Merthyr folk isn't it? And yes you do contradict yourself a lot on here.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 12:07 pm

The Saint wrote:No, but it's the general opinion among Ponty supporters and some Merthyr folk isn't it?

I don't know, you tell me. Or are you just generalising everybody again ? Because thats not how I see it.

The Saint wrote:And yes you do contradict yourself a lot on here.

Perhaps I do,but I have not on this point, in fact you are very much in the talking bullcrap party on this, as I have proved.

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Post by The Saint Thu 07 May 2015, 12:28 pm

LD I think the answer you're looking for has been mentioned by a few posters on this particular thread already. Also stop taking yourself so seriously, it's cringeworthy to say the least.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Thu 07 May 2015, 2:34 pm

So if teams outside the Premiership feed into a higher level in Ponty isn't it the same then as Ponty players feeding into their Region.

Or is it again one rule for one but not the other.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 07 May 2015, 2:39 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Saint wrote:Yet when Blues offer some players in the Pontypridd ranks the chance at a pro contract they're worse than Hitler. You don't 'alf contradict yourself!

When have I ever said this ? Are you just looking for an argument ? I have said, that if the Blues want to take Ponty players and offer them a pro contract then that is fine, but if they are not going to be using them, let Ponty have them back to use them. I have said exactly that on this very debate, feel free to scroll back through, it is there I promise.

It's been established that most of them aren't Ponty players in the first place.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 2:43 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:So if teams outside the Premiership feed into a higher level in Ponty isn't it the same then as Ponty players feeding into their Region.

Or is it again one rule for one but not the other.

No Bedford, it is not one rule for one and not for the other. You are missing the point I am getting at. If players in the Pontypridd setup are good enough to get into the Blues academy then fine, it is good news for the player, but when they are in Blues academy and are being paid, if Cardiff Blues are not using them, then why not let Pontypridd use them until Blues need them ? This is what is happening for the most part, it is not as if this deal is privvy to Pontypridd either, Cardiff the other club in the region that is in the Welsh Prem get the same deal as well.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 2:44 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It's been established that most of them aren't Ponty players in the first place.

Well they cannot ALL go to Cardiff RFC as there are only limited spaces at that club as well.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 07 May 2015, 3:00 pm

The point is you shouldn't say 'if the Blues want to take Ponty players' when they're not Ponty players to begin with.


Last edited by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 07 May 2015, 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by The Saint Thu 07 May 2015, 3:01 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:So if teams outside the Premiership feed into a higher level in Ponty isn't it the same then as Ponty players feeding into their Region.

Or is it again one rule for one but not the other.

No Bedford, it is not one rule for one and not for the other. You are missing the point I am getting at. If players in the Pontypridd setup are good enough to get into the Blues academy then fine, it is good news for the player, but when they are in Blues academy and are being paid, if Cardiff Blues are not using them, then why not let Pontypridd use them until Blues need them ? This is what is happening for the most part, it is not as if this deal is privvy to Pontypridd either, Cardiff the other club in the region that is in the Welsh Prem get the same deal as well.

Bedford seems to sum up the general attitude in that neck of the woods quite well. I think you miss the point again LD. We're all for players moving in and out of their club and Regional team. What we aren't for is how those people are treated by Pontypridd RFC and their fan base, especially when it's shown that they are a bunch of hypocrites.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 3:07 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:The point is you shouldn't say 'if the Blues are taking Ponty players' when they're not Ponty players to begin with.

Some of them are.Wink

But I think the biggest gripe is, they are taking players from clubs that used to service Pontypridd. I know a lot of players that now go straight to Cardiff from Merthyr and totally bypass Pontypridd, where has before they would usually end up at Ponty. Tom James is one I seem to remember. And, Owen Williams went from Aberdare down to Cardiff where as before he might have ended up at Pontypridd. Now before you all jump on me, I know, Cardiff Blues are doing nothing wrong, they are using their region, which is the right way to be doing things, I am just playing devils advocate and I am trying to open a window so people can see why things are the way they are. OK

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