Pro12 Semi 1 - Glasgow Warriors v Ulster Rugby, 22 May

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Glasgow Warriors v Ulster Rugby
Friday 22 May 2015
KO: 19:45
Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow

Live on Sky Sports / BBC ALBA / BBC NI / TG4

Referee: George Clancy (IRFU, 73rd competition game)
Assistant Referees: John Lacey, Dudley Phillips (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Gwyn Bowden (WRU)
TMO: Seamus Flannery (IRFU)

A. Head to Head - Aggregate

26 Played 26
12 Wins 13
13 Losses 12
1 Draws 1
44 Tries 47
31 Conversions 32
64 Penalties 66
6 Drop Goals 0
492 Points 497
25 Avg. Age 27

B. Head to Head - Recently

Sat 16 May 2015 - Glasgow 32 - 10 Ulster Rugby

Sat 11 Oct 2014 - Ulster Rugby 29 - 9 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 18 Apr 2014 - Glasgow Warriors 27 - 9 Ulster Rugby

Fri 13 Sep 2013 - Ulster Rugby 12 - 13 Glasgow Warriors

C. Run-In

Glasgow Warriors

16/05/15 Glasgow 32 - 10 Ulster

08/05/15 Ospreys 21 - 10 Glasgow

25/04/15 Connacht 13 - 31 Glasgow

Ulster Rugby

16/05/15 Glasgow 32 - 10 Ulster

09/05/15 Ulster 23 - 23 Munster

24/04/15 Ulster 26 - 10 Leinster

D. Teams

Glasgow Warriors

15. Stuart Hogg
14. Tommy Seymour
13. Richie Vernon
12. Peter Horne
11. Niko Matawalu
10. Finn Russell
09. Henry Pyrgos
 
01. Ryan Grant  
02. Fraser Brown
03. Rossouw de Klerk
04. Jonny Gray
05. Al Kellock (Captain)
06. Josh Strauss
07. Chris Fusaro
08. Adam Ashe
 
16. Pat MacArthur
17. Gordon Reid
18. Mike Cusack
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Ryan Wilson
21. Duncan Weir
22. Sean Lamont
23. DTH van der Merwe

Ulster Rugby

15 L Ludik
14 T Bowe
13 J Payne
12 D Cave
11 C Gilroy
10 P Jackson
09 R Pienaar

01 C Black
02 R Best (C)
03 R Lutton
04 L Stevenson
05 D Tuohy
06 I Henderson
07 C Henry
08 R Wilson

16 R Herring
17 A Warwick
18 B Ross
19 R Diack
20 S Reidy
21P Marshall
22 S McCloskey
23 M Allen

Well Van der Merwe will be fit, or at least they hope he will be fit, is the latest rumour.

That would be a big boost because we would be able to keep the Manchild of Mayhem at number 6.

Herbst is a big blow, and with Fitzpatrick having to retire Ulster are down to the bare bones. Still Lutton and Ross did OK but that may have been luck rather than parity?

The full game from the weekend is on YouTube if anyone missed it.

Notch wrote:Well Van der Merwe will be fit, or at least they hope he will be fit, is the latest rumour.

That would be a big boost because we would be able to keep the Manchild of Mayhem at number 6.

Very good news if true. Some had Van der Merwe not only out for this season, but also the next

Herring cited for an alleged stamp!

What about all the dirty knee drops from Glasgow players, and Diack nearly having his head tore off by Russell??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32796109

I honestly don't remember any stamp. I do remember a knee drop and the incident with Diack. I don't think there was really anything in the knee drop, but Diack being taken high seemed a bit suspect. Probably just my one-eyed Ulster supporter view though.

Anyone any idea what time in the game this alleged stamp occurred?

Clive - the great thing is there is a return this Friday!

Sneaky knees and necklace grabbing in endemic in Glasgow, it makes the fans feel at home. You have to admire how well the Warriors peddle their niggle though - minor stuff like tackling players without the ball, holding them in the ruck, not giving the ball back... Kellock is Test class at it - must be the reason he's in the team?

Not sure when the stamp was, but heres Diack in a head lock and head drove into the ground. Apparently not cite-able according to the Scottish citing commissioner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwP7s3NfT2c

In real time: https://youtu.be/mwP7s3NfT2c?t=1343

Yes, all helps to work up a little spite

Munchkin wrote:Yes, all helps to work up a little spite

Who are those two asswholes??  Uppercut one of you!  Rib punch!!!  Hard body shot!!  Variety you two idiots!!!!!  Variety!

clivemcl wrote:Not sure when the stamp was, but heres Diack in a head lock and head drove into the ground. Apparently not cite-able according to the Scottish citing commissioner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwP7s3NfT2c

In real time: https://youtu.be/mwP7s3NfT2c?t=1343

My first thought when looking at it was that it was probably a card, but wasn't sure as the game quickly moved on. I will have to look at it again, but if it was as reckless as it looked, and if it was on par with this alleged stamp, I would have to ask what on earth is the citing commisioner playing at?

Can't do that until I see them again though, and would probably have to watch the whole match to find this alleged stamp.

Anyway, we can get our revenge by beating them on Friday. Friday's belong to Ulster. Fridays give us a magical advantage over all other teams, and so we will beat them

Actually, just watched the Diack incident again. i would think that's a citing offence surely?

Munchkin wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Not sure when the stamp was, but heres Diack in a head lock and head drove into the ground. Apparently not cite-able according to the Scottish citing commissioner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwP7s3NfT2c

In real time: https://youtu.be/mwP7s3NfT2c?t=1343

My first thought when looking at it was that it was probably a card, but wasn't sure as the game quickly moved on. I will have to look at it again, but if it was as reckless as it looked, and if it was on par with this alleged stamp, I would have to ask what on earth is the citing commisioner playing at?

Can't do that until I see them again though, and would probably have to watch the whole match to find this alleged stamp.

Anyway, we can get our revenge by beating them on Friday. Friday's belong to Ulster. Fridays give us a magical advantage over all other teams, and so we will beat them

And as previously mentioned, I'm working Saturday - was rather delighted when seen we had the Friday night slot! Let's be 'avin ye!!!!

The Great Aukster wrote:Clive - the great thing is there is a return this Friday!

Sneaky knees and necklace grabbing in endemic in Glasgow, it makes the fans feel at home. You have to admire how well the Warriors peddle their niggle though - minor stuff like tackling players without the ball, holding them in the ruck, not giving the ball back... Kellock is Test class at it - must be the reason he's in the team?

Now now.....don't start acting all Welsh please.

Worked out well for you, Clive

On the other Ulster forum one poster thinks the stamping may have been that recorded at around 1:07:50, if you let it run a few seconds. It's possible Herring stamped at this point, but I can't see anything to suggest a stamp on the player who was holding his leg.

Maybe the commissioner got Herring and Pyrgos mixed up?

Well lads, I've looked at it and there is a Glasgow player on the ground in the ruck and he is holding Herring's leg as the ball goes away. The ref should have penalised the Glasgow player.
This is my subjective interpretation of what happens next.
Herring makes one or two attempts to extricate his leg while watching play develop. Play goes wide to the right wing. It is obvious Herring will not make it to the next breakdown. As he moves away from the ruck he lifts his leg and drives his heel backwards in the direction of the player who was holding him.
Where this sits on the spectrum from
understandable frustration---stupidly petulant--nastily spiteful
is fairly subjective.
However, Herring will be hard pushed to convince anyone that he didn't know what he was doing.
This probably means that Best will be starting on Saturday, fit or not. Who is your third choice hooker? I think we'll be seeing him around the 50 minute mark.

It should have been a Red Herring. It certainly is now.

SecretFly wrote:It should have been a Red Herring.  It certainly is now.

tough crowd.

jimbopip wrote:Well lads, I've looked at it and there is a Glasgow player on the ground in the ruck and he is holding Herring's leg as the ball goes away. The ref should have penalised the Glasgow player.
This is my subjective interpretation of what happens next.
Herring makes one or two attempts to extricate his leg while watching play develop. Play goes wide to the right wing. It is obvious Herring will not make it to the next breakdown. As he moves away from the ruck he lifts his leg and drives his heel backwards in the direction of the player who was holding him.
Where this sits on the spectrum from
understandable frustration---stupidly petulant--nastily spiteful
is fairly subjective.
However, Herring will be hard pushed to convince anyone that he didn't know what he was doing.
This probably means that Best will be starting on Saturday, fit or not. Who is your third choice hooker? I think we'll be seeing him around the 50 minute mark.

Ruaidhri Murphy? That would be fantastic twist wouldn't it?

He has actually played hooker for Brumbies believe it or not.

In all seriousness though, is it McCall? Even though he's been getting gametime at prop?

Ohhhhhh great, George 'clownshoes' Clancy heads up an all Irish refereeing team for Friday nigh.

Referee: George Clancy (IRFU, 73rd competition game)
Assistant Referees: John Lacey, Dudley Phillips (both IRFU)
TMO: Seamus Flannery (IRFU)

GLove - George & John Lacey will be very happy to see Glasgow win this one

Oh Great Clancy is the ref I can't wait to see what part of thin air he picks the decisions out of this time

Sin é wrote:GLove - George & John Lacey will be very happy to see Glasgow win this one

Yes. The off-planet folks from across the big Ocean (Irish sea) always seem to think any presumed Bias would always extend from an Irish ref to assist an Irish side. It's a bit like saying a Rangers supporter ref would want Celtic to win a big European game against Barcelona...... Barcelona 26 - Celtic 9 red cards and Nil scoreline.

I find it hard to believe that the Ulstermen are not delighted that they will have one last chance to see Clownshoes and The Captain do their Thatcher-Scargill routine.
Clownshoes is a poor ref at the best of times but his personal antipathy towards Big Al is in a league of its own.

Seriously - how can a professional league not have neutral officials for a semi final?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Seriously - how can a professional league not have neutral officials for a semi final?

The Neutrals don't want to show up because they're not interested?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Seriously - how can a professional league not have neutral officials for a semi final?

RDW  Shame on you. Are you suggesting that having the uncle of Munster legend Jerry Flannery as TMO in a match to decide who might play Munster in the final might not pass a due diligence test?
Shame on you, you cynic that you are.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Seriously - how can a professional league not have neutral officials for a semi final?

Because maybe they ARE neutral. Maybe they are professionals. Maybe they are paid a good salary, and have pride in their job. Maybe they even have morals. Maybe they care about right and wrong. Maybe they are Irish but hate Ulster. Maybe they are all footy fans, and are only in it for the money. Maybe they've been bribed yer man who works at the slaughter house that the Best family take their beef cattle because he's the biggest Ulster fan that ever lived.

sorry.... got carried away there with other examples of maybes.


but yea.... maybe they ARE neutral, and professional.

maybe we need to start having faith in people, and stop thinking everyone has an agenda in life that revolves around their support of sporting teams...

Oh, and whilst we are wearing tin hats, I never wear my united top when I visit my GP because he's a City fan, and you know....

He would give me the wrong prescription if he knew I supported United... obviously... cos... you know....  people are like that - aren't they?

Over at the Munster v Ospreys game.... it's mostly all Welsh officials...oh and a Scot. So everybody has to be on their best behaviour - home crowds, away officials. The dirty tricks better be very dark indeed to hide themselves from eagle eyes.

Clownshoes - ohh ffs   And as for that erse Lacy on one line     This is bloody ridiculous - the grip Irish refs have on the Pro 12 is now embarrassing !

Understated and even handed as ever Schiz?

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Clownshoes - ohh ffs   And as for that erse Lacy on one line       This is bloody ridiculous - the grip Irish refs have on the Pro 12 is now embarrassing !

You Scots need to get the finger out and start developing refs. Not fair leaving it all up to the Irish & Welsh to provide all the refs.

SecretFly wrote:Over at the Munster v Ospreys game.... it's mostly all Welsh officials...oh and a Scot.  So everybody has to be on their best behaviour - home crowds, away officials.  The dirty tricks better be very dark indeed to hide themselves from eagle eyes.

Delighted with Nigel, but that clown Leighton Hodges. He shouldn't be let near a rugby pitch, let alone be a ball boy.

Are people actually being serious on here with the ref stuff?

I can understand people being annoyed because he's a crap ref, but because he's Irish? Is that where we are? The other semi gets Nigel Owens because it's actually in Ireland and there seems to be a policy of only giving refs of the same nation as one of the teams when it's not in that country. This one gets who the Pro12 views as the next best available referee.

Glasgow fans can point to a long list of times Clancy has given contentious decisions against them, I'm sure, but the Ulster fans can do the exact same thing.

Notch wrote:Are people actually being serious on here with the ref stuff?

I can understand people being annoyed because he's a crap ref, but because he's Irish? Is that where we are? The other semi gets Nigel Owens because it's actually in Ireland and there seems to be a policy of only giving refs of the same nation as one of the teams when it's not in that country. This one gets who the Pro12 views as the next best available referee.

Glasgow fans can point to a long list of times Clancy has given contentious decisions against them, I'm sure, but the Ulster fans can do the exact same thing.

I have to agree here. Clancy is not biased against Glasgow (or anyone else), he's just dreadful.

It is true unfortunately, until Scotland start producing more refs and evening up the pool, we can't really moan.

I am a bit old fashioned like that I'm afraid, when I played you never criticised the ref even though he usually came from the club you were playing and lets not even mention the touch judges, who did not even have to maintain any semblance of impartiality.

I don't believe the refs are bias, but the overall standard does leave something to be desired sometimes!

Clancy is doing his best, and the fact that he is one of the better referees is an indictment of refereeing standards in general.

His worst decision from an Ulster perspective was blowing the final whistle and then calling for the TMO to rule on a potential result-changing Leinster try. That has to be the most surreal application of the Laws ever, and just goes to show how much he was affected by the reaction of the Dublin crowd when he first blew up.

The inevitable thing is that one set of fans will be complaining about him on Saturday morning.

The Great Aukster wrote:
The inevitable thing is that one set of fans will be complaining about him on Saturday morning.

I'm afraid thats true regardless of who it is. The nationality thing just gives folk something extra to latch onto

This game means a huge amount to me, but I'm going to try and be a gentleman as much as I can if we lose. It's tough to be like that about this game, as watching two other teams contest a Final at our ground would be a new form of knockout misery for Ulster fans who have experienced every other kind so far! But I will be trying to keep a stiff upper lip.

That Ulster could be playing in a Final at Ravenhill this year should we win seems like some sort of karmic rebalancing, as Ulster have had such rotten luck in the KO stages of competitions at various times (Payne-gate, having to give away the 2013 Final to Dublin etc.) but the other side of it is it's also going to be hellish watching the Final at our ground without us involved. Not saying you should feel sorry for us or anything- absolutely shouldn't for one second, because this stage of the season is cruel for the losers whatever happens. Just outlining why there's an extra amount riding on this year. Glasgow will probably host next year's Final regardless of what happens in the next few weeks and the league next year- with the rule change and a potential move to national stadiums on the horizon this may be Ulsters last ever chance to play in a Final at Ravenhill. That's why I'm hopeful that Ulster will not let that opportunity slip away, whatever the odds, whoever the opponents...

I'm not for a minute here claiming foul play or expecting a biased ref (just a useless one) but it is far from ideal to have the entire ref team from one of the home nations.

All it does is amplify any poor decision they make against Glasgow - and that's not what the focus should be on.

RDW_Scotland wrote:All it does is amplify any poor decision they make against Glasgow - and that's not what the focus should be on.

Well, it amplifies it if people make a conscious choice to amplify it. That's down to them not anyone else.

jimbopip wrote:Well lads, I've looked at it and there is a Glasgow player on the ground in the ruck and he is holding Herring's leg as the ball goes away. The ref should have penalised the Glasgow player.
This is my subjective interpretation of what happens next.
Herring makes one or two attempts to extricate his leg while watching play develop. Play goes wide to the right wing. It is obvious Herring will not make it to the next breakdown. As he moves away from the ruck he lifts his leg and drives his heel backwards in the direction of the player who was holding him.
Where this sits on the spectrum from
understandable frustration---stupidly petulant--nastily spiteful
is fairly subjective.
However, Herring will be hard pushed to convince anyone that he didn't know what he was doing.
This probably means that Best will be starting on Saturday, fit or not. Who is your third choice hooker? I think we'll be seeing him around the 50 minute mark.

Is your subjective interpretation based something you actually witnessed, or are you guessing that Herring actually stamped on him? It's just that I haven't yet seen any footage which shows Herring stamping on a player.

There's nothing wrong with Best either, in terms of his fitness. Not sure where that comes from.

Notch wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:All it does is amplify any poor decision they make against Glasgow - and that's not what the focus should be on.

Well, it amplifies it if people make a conscious choice to amplify it. That's down to them not anyone else.

So from a credibility perspective you have no problem at all with an entire ref team from one nation for a semi final? You would hardly see an all French ref team for the Toulon-Leinster semi ever happening.

Again I'm not saying people should judge the ref or make comments given he's not neutral, I'm just saying that they will.

I just don't think it is an ideal scenario to be in, that's all.

Having (on paper) non-neutral referees genuinely is something that fans could take issue with - it would never happen in football and given that only 2 Rabo games are being played this weekend, I am unsure as to why it has to happen here.

To say that 'it's only an issue if you make it one' does not mean that it is incorrect to mention it. Why give fans anything to complain about at all? And why keep neutral referees throughout the year only to then do this in a playoff semi-final?

Practically, will it make a difference? Probably not. As has been pointed out, there referees are professionals and their performance is audited by their peers afterwards. However, it doesn't sit well with anyone who likes to remove any possible accusation of partisanship from the equation.

It simply wasn't necessary to have an all Irish refereeing staff. That's all. That's where this begins and ends, really.

If we had access to the top refs of three nations who produce top refs like the Eurooean competitions do it wouldn't happen either, but it's always going to be a problem with the Pro12 that the Irish and the Welsh produce more refs than the Scottish or Italians. In the European Cup knockouts, whether the teams are French, English, Irish or other you can get a French, English, Irish or other referee in as a neutral. But in the Pro12, most of the top refs are Irish with a few Welsh and maybe Marius Mitrea. We're not as flexible.

Personally, from a credibility point of view I don't have a problem with it because I've seen Clancy ref Ulster enough times to know for a certainty he has absolutely no bias toward us whatsoever. If he does, he's obviously been playing the long game and trying to throw everyone off the scent by giving us the harsh end of the stick! So I know that the referee has been proven to be unbiased and that's credible. The league should have no problem choosing a referee who's proven his lack of bias if they feel he's the best candidate for a big game.

People will moan if it goes wrong for Glasgow, sure, but should we really let the moaners control what happens? Pander to the lowest common denominator?

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Clownshoes - ohh ffs   And as for that erse Lacy on one line       This is bloody ridiculous - the grip Irish refs have on the Pro 12 is now embarrassing !

Italian Refs reffed Scottish sides 3 times this season - 2 Scottish wins (both Glasgow) 1 loss
Welsh Refs reffed Scottish sides 18 times this season - 10 Scottish wins, 7 losses, 1 draw
Irish Refs reffed Scottish sides 22 times this season - 14 Scottish wins, 8 losses

Clancy reffed Scottish sides 6 times this season.  4 wins (all of them Glasgow) 2 losses.

"Oh it's not that I meant!!!  I mean they're bad for all sides not just us!!!!!"

Yeah, we know the usual junk talk.  

I've just seen that Owens is reffing the other game with an all Welsh team.

They could have swapped the teams over so that only one game had non- neutral refs.

But then again Munster at home with an Irish ref team is maybe worse than both away teams having refs from their nation!

RDW_Scotland wrote:But then again Munster at home with an Irish ref team is maybe worse than both away teams having refs from their nation!

Yeah they don't want non-neutral refs at home.