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Next season, make or break for the regions ?

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Coleman
Cardiff Dave
Weegie Wizard
Steffan
rodders
Chunky Norwich
Seagultaf
GavinDragon
HammerofThunor
ScarletSpiderman
LordDowlais
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Post by LordDowlais Tue 02 Jun 2015, 12:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ok, so here we have it, next season will see Roger Lewis step down and Gareth Davies take over, players are being kept in Wales with dual contracts so we will not have summer of anxiety and worry about our regions losing their best players, we seem to be having a lot more stability with the professional game in Wales and the fighting has stopped. For me next season is make or break for the regions, if Scarlets lose another 1.7 million then I think this will be the last you see of the West Wales region, and Cardiff Blues have a lot of rebuilding to do, Ospreys and Dragons now need to build on their improvements, Roger Lewis is going, there will be nobody to blame any more, unless we all turn on Gareth Davies, for me next year must see an improvement if not, then I think we could well see more big changes to the professional game in Wales.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Tue 02 Jun 2015, 11:10 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Steffan wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:So why would Llanelli have ever merged with their sworn rivals Swansea?

So what you are saying is that we would have the same scenario with Llanelli as we are now having with Pontypridd ? Yet it is Ponty who are the virus of Welsh rugby
Exactly LD. Llanelli don't want to have a West Wales reason with Swanea as they are rivals...that's fine

Pontypridd don't want to be part of a "region" with 'Cardiff' in the name as they are rivals...Ponty are the scurge of Welsh rugby

One rule for one team and supporters and one for another on here it is

Far more to do with Swansea not being WEST.  

Funny how everyone says there should be West, South, Easy and North.  But nobody seems to understand that would be Scarlets (west), Ospreys (south), combined Blues/Dragons (East) and RGC (North).  Unless you lot actually want west/South/East even closer geographical than they are now.

What about mid Wales? They're entitled to a region too, shewerly?

This is BS talk you fool.

Fixed.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 03 Jun 2015, 7:11 am

funny thinking about it. This is the first season in a while with no uncertainty about what regions will be around next season (rare/wry spat, wru secret plan on closing Ospreys etc) ang here we are gain all trying to be negative and carve up the regions.
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Post by LordDowlais Wed 03 Jun 2015, 10:07 am

Anyway as this topic got a little bit side tracked, lets try and steer it back into the right direction.

For me Ospreys are going to be a lot stronger next season, Steve Tandy and his staff are doing a tour of the SH to get some new ideas and with the signings they have made so far, they are looking very good to push on, Scarlets have made a few signings but not in the right areas for me so God only knows how they will do, I expect Dragons to make further improvements next season with their youngsters having a season under their belt, and Blues, well, the only way is up for those shambles.

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Post by Coleman Wed 03 Jun 2015, 11:00 am

As a Blues fan i honestly can't see us moving up much. We need to release a lot of players and get a coach in who is allowed to build his own team. Every day that goes by is another day wasted. Every team in Europe is trying to find players right now and we're drifting without a rudder. 

I really want to see the O's and Scarlets kick on now. Ideally one or both of them needs to get out of the RCC group stages as we need to show that Welsh rugby is still a good place to come work. 

The Dragons continue to impress me. They (i believe) have a smaller budget than the other three regions and their player development pathways have been in overdrive lately. I'd like to see their ownership resolved as that 50% owned by the Union could be put to better use with either the fans or a commited investor getting involved. 

With all the issues with the union and Europe now sorted we need to work together to get people involved with regional rugby.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 03 Jun 2015, 11:20 am

Coleman wrote:As a Blues fan i honestly can't see us moving up much. We need to release a lot of players and get a coach in who is allowed to build his own team. Every day that goes by is another day wasted. Every team in Europe is trying to find players right now and we're drifting without a rudder. 

I really want to see the O's and Scarlets kick on now. Ideally one or both of them needs to get out of the RCC group stages as we need to show that Welsh rugby is still a good place to come work. 

The Dragons continue to impress me. They (i believe) have a smaller budget than the other three regions and their player development pathways have been in overdrive lately. I'd like to see their ownership resolved as that 50% owned by the Union could be put to better use with either the fans or a commited investor getting involved. 

With all the issues with the union and Europe now sorted we need to work together to get people involved with regional rugby.

If my numbers come up... Fingers Crossed

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Post by Coleman Wed 03 Jun 2015, 11:52 am

I'm suprised that the supporters club havn't tried to buy that stake. Fan ownership seems to be very popular at the moment and it's also a good way of keeping the wheels from falling off. 

I find it strange that it's been in Union hands for so long. I always worried Rog would use it to try and scupper the Dragons at some point.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 03 Jun 2015, 11:58 am

Maybe people have tried to buy the stake and the union haven't been willing to sell. Who knows.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 03 Jun 2015, 11:59 am

That stake is probably a couple of million pounds. It's not a whip round in the pub.

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Post by Coleman Wed 03 Jun 2015, 1:05 pm

The WRU only paid £1 for it and they don't take part in running the club. If they tried to profit from the sale i'd be shocked.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 03 Jun 2015, 1:08 pm

Is it still worth that then?

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Post by GavinDragon Wed 03 Jun 2015, 1:14 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Coleman wrote:As a Blues fan i honestly can't see us moving up much. We need to release a lot of players and get a coach in who is allowed to build his own team. Every day that goes by is another day wasted. Every team in Europe is trying to find players right now and we're drifting without a rudder. 

I really want to see the O's and Scarlets kick on now. Ideally one or both of them needs to get out of the RCC group stages as we need to show that Welsh rugby is still a good place to come work. 

The Dragons continue to impress me. They (i believe) have a smaller budget than the other three regions and their player development pathways have been in overdrive lately. I'd like to see their ownership resolved as that 50% owned by the Union could be put to better use with either the fans or a commited investor getting involved. 

With all the issues with the union and Europe now sorted we need to work together to get people involved with regional rugby.

If my numbers come up... Fingers Crossed

I often play that game in my head! Lets just say if that were to happen EXP would be getting some serious redevelopment and we would be a true region to rival the Ospreys!

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 03 Jun 2015, 2:30 pm

With regards the Scarlets losses. Apparently there will be no press release from the Board on the matter, due to the figures being best part of a year old. However apparently the losses are acceptable by the board and investors. And also these include the significant losses during the RRW/WRU Spat and also a £500K increase on squad expenditure.

By the sounds of it the money coming into the region is actually on the rise, and the losses are a sign of investments that are being made.
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Post by offload Wed 03 Jun 2015, 4:06 pm

Hasn't every season felt like make or break? I'm not sure why next will be any different. Some dual contracts will ease the wage bills a bit but benefactors will still need to put some personal money in.

It's clear that 4 pro "regions" are barely financially sustainable and any talk of more is silly, as is some sort of return to a pro club structure. We are stuck with the "regions" flawed as they are, as I doubt the WRU has the stomach to try and transition to what they should have done from the start - create 3 professional regional franchises (not built around existing clubs) with central / dual contracts for around 120 of the top players. We would still have a vibrant semi-pro club structure with fans supporting their local clubs and the pro game.

Any way, what do I know....
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Post by munkian Wed 03 Jun 2015, 4:19 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Steffan wrote:These maps highlight how shockingly close to each other the "regions" are in Wales compared to the provinces in Ireland

Next season, make or break for the regions ? - Page 2 11209511_10153097294493089_8083363953173232771_n

Next season, make or break for the regions ? - Page 2 10404308_10153097294818089_3334286476579860567_n

I must be missing something here. What does that prove?

I would imagine, if you did a map showing make up of professional rugby players origin, the map lines would be very similar.

To me it shows how the 4 Irish teams are spread out amongst the population centers with no overlap unlike the 'regions' which are are all within 100 miles of each other give or take.
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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 03 Jun 2015, 4:23 pm

munkian wrote:
To me it shows how the 4 Irish teams are spread out amongst the population centers with no overlap unlike the 'regions' which are are all within 100 miles of each other give or take.

As with most things rugby wise, Ireland and Wales are incomparable. There is no debate to where the Irish rugby teams would ever be based because there are 4 ready made provinces. So comparing that to Wales is ridiculous.

Just like bringing up the idea of a professional rugby team based in North Wales is ridiculous.

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Post by Guest Wed 03 Jun 2015, 5:49 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Coleman wrote:As a Blues fan i honestly can't see us moving up much. We need to release a lot of players and get a coach in who is allowed to build his own team. Every day that goes by is another day wasted. Every team in Europe is trying to find players right now and we're drifting without a rudder. 

I really want to see the O's and Scarlets kick on now. Ideally one or both of them needs to get out of the RCC group stages as we need to show that Welsh rugby is still a good place to come work. 

The Dragons continue to impress me. They (i believe) have a smaller budget than the other three regions and their player development pathways have been in overdrive lately. I'd like to see their ownership resolved as that 50% owned by the Union could be put to better use with either the fans or a commited investor getting involved. 

With all the issues with the union and Europe now sorted we need to work together to get people involved with regional rugby.

If my numbers come up... Fingers Crossed

I often play that game in my head! Lets just say if that were to happen EXP would be getting some serious redevelopment and we would be a true region to rival the Ospreys!

True Region vomit

Whilst the Dragons have faults, at least we've never cancelled a game as we couldn't be bothered to find a prop Wink

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Post by GavinDragon Thu 04 Jun 2015, 9:03 am

Rev you have your reasons for supporting the dragons and I have mine.

And it is a shame to hear, on Twitter anyway, that there is growing support for the regional pretence to be dropped altogether and the 4 pro teams reverting to their old club names.

I see few people championing the principle of regionalism which is a shame.

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Post by Coleman Thu 04 Jun 2015, 10:07 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:Just like bringing up the idea of a professional rugby team based in North Wales is ridiculous.

I'd like to disagree on this. I think there is a place for a professional team in North Wales in the future. I think they're some way away but RGC are developing nicely. They have good crowds, great facilities, a strong relationship with the schools in the area and are really trying to develop the sport. I understand that the demographics are different but if you look at how Connacht have developed then i think RGC have every chance of becoming a Pro North Wales regional team down the line.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Fri 05 Jun 2015, 9:22 pm

Coleman wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Just like bringing up the idea of a professional rugby team based in North Wales is ridiculous.

I'd like to disagree on this. I think there is a place for a professional team in North Wales in the future. I think they're some way away but RGC are developing nicely. They have good crowds, great facilities, a strong relationship with the schools in the area and are really trying to develop the sport. I understand that the demographics are different but if you look at how Connacht have developed then i think RGC have every chance of becoming a Pro North Wales regional team down the line.

Need £££s though. Lots of 'em.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 05 Jun 2015, 10:40 pm

It has seemed to me the Regions should be able to be strong and viable.  Obviously there have been nasty political issues which were a barrier to any progress.  But beyond that it appears the WRU are hellbent to pay off Millennium Stadium at all costs.  If more of that money was invested in the Regions, it should be easier to retain home grown talent, improve success, and consequently, draw more fans to the matches.  

I know it is not that simple, but to an auslander it seems those are the biggest issues.  And beating the same old drum, a rising tide lifts all ships.  In other words, successful Regions are good for all of us.

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Post by Coleman Sat 06 Jun 2015, 10:04 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Coleman wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Just like bringing up the idea of a professional rugby team based in North Wales is ridiculous.

I'd like to disagree on this. I think there is a place for a professional team in North Wales in the future. I think they're some way away but RGC are developing nicely. They have good crowds, great facilities, a strong relationship with the schools in the area and are really trying to develop the sport. I understand that the demographics are different but if you look at how Connacht have developed then i think RGC have every chance of becoming a Pro North Wales regional team down the line.

Need £££s though. Lots of 'em.
Oh yeah no doubt that's why you grow them over time. Allow them to development step by step until they're a development region in the prem. They're already building an organic identity, a fan base and a sponsor base. When the stadium debt is paid off then the rugby landscape may have changed. Could be that the Italians have left the Pro12 or that the Scottish have set up a new team by then. Can't rush RGC but you can't ignore them either.

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