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Under 20's world championship - general discussion thread

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Post by blackcanelion on Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:11 am

I'm posting this even though I know there are Irish, English and Scottish threads. My idea is to give a thread that allows for all the games and teams to be discussed (that's not to downplay the other posts which have value in their own right).

To get the ball rolling here are some thoughts on the NZ team and chances in this tournament.

1. I think the NZRFU are starting to take this tournament more seriously. Not having won it in three years means you ask hard questions. I think it's obvious that we been way behind the eight ball in preparation compared to European teams for a while. It looks like they are taking steps in the right direction.

2. The coaching set up looks good. All three coaches are successful ITM cup coaches and have significant mana (i.e. they are all ex All Blacks).

3. The team has had better preparation than in the past. This team has actually played together in a few matches. In the past they've probably come in under prepared (there are no equivalents of the 6 nations age group competitions).

4. The teams pretty useful. There are players that aren't available (e.g. McKenzie and Lenart-Brown playing for the chiefs and I'm assuming national sevens player Ioane (Akira's younger brother).

5. The loss of players to league has obviously impacted this team, but it may be the union is addressing this with the countries first super 15 under 19 squads being set up in Auckland and Wellington. It's hard to say if it will stem the flow  as the NRL generates more TV revenue than either the Top 14 or Premiership. The clubs currently contract 16 professional under 19 squads) so there is a big pull. The Players who likely would have made it, include Asofa Solomona (could have been the superstar of this tournament).

6. It's difficult to determine the chances of this team based on 1 game. All we can say is that they were significantly better than the Scottish side they faced. I understand the Scottish side was understrength and given that this isn't the strongest NZ side we probably wont get a decent idea until after the game against Ireland.

7. It looks to have a side that play to NZ's normal strengths (e.g. fitness, pace and ball skills). The question remains how they cope if/when a team can control, possession, position and the pace of the game (e.g. England or SA). I'm not entirely convinced we adequate in the tight 5. If someone someone controls the set piece, has a good mauling game and can slow down the ruck we will be vulnerable.

All that aside I feel reasonably happy with our chances.

So. How do you feel about your team's progress so far and their chances looking forward.

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Post by blackcanelion on Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:39 am

My early thoughts are:
England, SA, NZ and Australia for the playoff 1-4
France, Wales, Argentina and Ireland for playoff 5-8
Scotland, Italy, Samoa and Japan for playoff 9-12


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Post by profitius on Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:02 pm

I don't think England look as strong this year so I'd fancy the ABs to win it. I saw a bit of the Italy SA game and wasn't very impressed with the Boks who had a good pack but didn't have the best backs. They are still strong contenders though as are England.


France have never done well in this competition but they've a good side this year. Ireland can play with flair but lack a bit of grunt up front. Scotland are slightly better this year and are targeting the match against Ireland after playing a weakened side against NZ. Wales have some good forwards but don't look too strong this year. Italy have a few good players and might be competitive for an hour. Argentina have a typical Argentinian style side but didn't impress me too much against Ireland. I don't think they'll worry the ABs in their next game and it should be closer against Scotland.


blackcanelion wrote:
1. I think the NZRFU are starting to take this tournament more seriously. Not having won it in three years means you ask hard questions. I think it's obvious that we been way behind the eight ball in preparation compared to European teams for a while. It looks like they are taking steps in the right direction.


There was always a 6 nations but it didn't stop NZ running away with it year after year. Only since England started winning did we hear about the preparation advantage NH teams have. The 6 nations was months ago and played in wintry conditions etc. I'm not sure how much of an advantage it is. The SH sides have an advantage this year because they've played warm up games in the last few weeks.


The AB's look to have picked a bigger side this year to match the physicality of England and SA.
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Post by PenfroPete on Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:21 pm

Dertails of UK & Ireland coverage is included here

https://www.606v2.com/t6249-penfro-s-live-tv-guide-updated-friday-05-06-15-1213
(It's in the Sticky section)

More games on TV next Wednesday
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Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:39 pm

Big game for both Ireland and Scotland coming up,an Ireland win sets up a pool decider with NZ while if the Scots win they should make the 5th - 8th place playoffs.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:42 pm

England team for the Wales game:

15 Aaron Morris (Saracens)
14 George Perkins (Saracens)
13 Nick Tompkins (Saracens)
12 Max Clark (Bath Rugby)
11. Howard Packman (Northampton Saints)
10 Rory Jennings (Bath Rugby)
9 Stuart Townsend (Exeter Chiefs)

1. Sebastian Adeniran-Olule (Harlequins)
2 Jack Walker (Yorkshire Carnegie)
3 Paul Hill (Yorkshire Carnegie)
4. Kieran Treadwell (Harlequins)
5 Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, Captain)
6 Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints)
7 Will Owen (Leicester Tigers)
8. Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs)

Replacements:

16 Jack Innard (Exeter Chiefs)
17. Ellis Genge (Bristol Rugby)
18 Ciaran Parker (Sale Sharks)
19. Will Witty (Newcastle Falcons)
20. Josh Bainbridge (Yorkshire Carnegie)
21 James Mitchell (Sale Sharks)
22 Lloyd Evans (Gloucester)
23 Piers O’Conor (Wasps)
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Post by The Saint on Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:43 pm

Lose one game and it's pretty much over. Therefore Wales' JWC is over. Some good players in the team, but not playing to their potential, though they are a bit better than the disastrous squad built by Byron Hayward.

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Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:23 pm

NZ 15-12 Arg,good game this,Argentina look very good until they get near the NZ 22 then they just can't seem to keep it together.NZ scrum is strong and they are being dominated slightly in general play but they have the cutting edge and have scored 2 lovely tries.

2nd half could be interesting.

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Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:59 pm

15-15 with 61 mins gone,both teams were down to 14 men for the last ten minutes.Argentina back to a full team,NZ will be back to full strength very soon too.Tough to call how this will finish.

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Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:06 pm

Game over as a contest,NZ scored a lovely try to make it 22-15,Argentina then forced to try to score and a knockon near the NZ 22 was punished clinically with some great running and passing,29-15.

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Post by Notch on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:14 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Game over as a contest,NZ scored a lovely try to make it 22-15,Argentina then forced to try to score and a knockon near the NZ 22 was punished clinically with some great running and passing,29-15.

Argentina disagree. Now 29-29 Smile
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Post by Notch on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:20 pm

New Zealand shade it 32-29.
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Post by Rugby Fan on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:22 pm

That's two good performances from Argentina but two losses.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:52 pm

England going well playing into a strong wind, with 14 men against a big Welsh pack.

10-0 after 11 minutes.
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Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:59 pm

Notch wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:Game over as a contest,NZ scored a lovely try to make it 22-15,Argentina then forced to try to score and a knockon near the NZ 22 was punished clinically with some great running and passing,29-15.

Argentina disagree. Now 29-29 Smile

Lol yeah fair play to them,I wasn't expecting that.Pity they couldn't hold on but great to see them performing like that.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:59 pm

We seem to be getting the 50/50's. Handling looks pretty good, this is a big Welsh pack

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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:01 pm

Packman finished off a sweeping move, England showing some good skills.
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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:04 pm

Tompkins and the back 3 linking well. Townsend looks handy, looks great on the deck

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:05 pm

Their 7 loves getting penalised

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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:05 pm

Welsh openside has committed about four offences now, ref should be having a word with him?
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Post by The Great Aukster on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:07 pm

That's two games Ireland have been out-muscled up front and still came away with a win. I still can't believe how poor Scotland's handling was - especially in the backs.
I fear for Ireland against the baby blacks who overpowered Scotland, so what on earth are they going to do to the wee bog trotters!

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Post by The Saint on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:08 pm

Sounds fair, typical No.7.

This performance isn't good from us. Our defence is all over the place and we're dropping the ball too often. Unexpected from a good group of players so you have to question what's going on.

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Post by The Saint on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:12 pm

That just sums up my point. The whole team were walking back to the line then. Someone had better be sacked next week.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:13 pm

Quick thinking from Townsend, looks a really good player.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:13 pm

This is a pretty dominant display so far, Townsend has been superb

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:15 pm

not sure about this talk of England not being so strong this year based on this game so far. Some very slick handling from the backs, and quick thinking from Townsend to tap a quick penalty near the Wales line for their third try.

Tompkins has had some very nice touches in midfield in the opening 30 minutes or so, looks a classy player. England do need to sort their restarts out though...

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Post by The Saint on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:16 pm

England's halfback partnership is good, probably the main difference. That and the team knows how to defend.

We're 22-0 down and going for 3... Wonder who makes these decisions..

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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:16 pm

English props are being given a tough examination by their Welsh counterparts, Wales have got themselves on the board of the back of it.
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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:17 pm

Jennings' kicking has been superb.  It is notable that the English breakdown skills are getting better.
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Post by The Saint on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:21 pm

Cumbrian, I think Jennings could be MOTM so far, with Townsend not far behind.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:24 pm

Aye, would agree Saint.

That is a warning to England not to be too cocky. A criminal try to give away.
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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:41 pm

I reckon the commentators don't have a clue about the wind, it seems like it was behind England in the first and Wales in this.
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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:46 pm

Why the hell do England keep kicking the ball in the Welsh 22? Show patience and recycle...
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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:59 pm

Wales have stepped up a gear whilst we've went down. Need to bring the intensity back or we could let them back in this

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Post by The Saint on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:03 pm

AWful decision making. England just get a warning when they're on the ropes, so we decide to go for goal, which he almost missed right in front of the posts.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:04 pm

We're being whistled off the park here. England need to spend some time in Wales' half.
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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:09 pm

Great rolling maul, England needed that Wales were threatening to come back into it.
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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:11 pm

Phew, that should hopefully be enough.

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Post by The Saint on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:12 pm

Certainly enough. England in pole position in this group now.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:15 pm

Surely that was advantage over?
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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:20 pm

That was never a forward pass, ridiculous decision.
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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:21 pm

That didn't look forward.

Our scrum has went up a notch with our starting LH off.

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Post by HammerofThunor on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:22 pm

Funny how the commentators keep banging on about the size of the England forwards, even after showing the Welsh forwards being heavier by 3kg per man (average). Is it just a cliche that gets put out for England regardless?

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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:23 pm

I always find it interesting the way the commentator talk about English age grades, he just said 'and the big guys just keep coming for England' after a foward substitution.  He didn't do that for Wales, despite giving the statistic earlier that Wales are 3 Kg a man heavier!


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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:24 pm

Snap HoT!
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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:24 pm

We do have a big bench compared to some of the starters.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:26 pm

Wales won the Dad dancing, jesus!
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Post by HammerofThunor on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:28 pm

Seems a strange penalty. Didn't look like he was on the ball.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:31 pm

It was a decent win in the end, but if England stop playing like that against NZ, SA or even France they will be punished.
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Post by The Saint on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:32 pm

Couple shameful performances here and an implosion in the last 6 Nations. Absolutely shameful. Somebody clearly needs the sack and the players need to take a hard, long look at themselves.

Good performance by England as well.

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