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PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher

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PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Tue 16 Jun 2015, 4:00 pm

OK, This is one of those weeks where we don't know what we don't know.
We don't know anything about the Chambers Bay course, except that it's visually breathtaking. But so is Bryce Canyon. We know it's been very dry and there are reports about greens being "on the edge", but whether that's by accident or design, who knows?
We know there might be Par-5's morphing into Par-4's and vice versa, but no word yet as to whether Mike Davis might create a Par-2 or a Par-6. We DO know promised transportation infrastructure ain't happening, and that "patrons" are advised to view from grandstands rather than follow specific groups - use your own sporting analogy, but that sounds bl00dy stupid to moi.
And we do know that this course is not pro-tournament proven; the only significant event staged there so far is the 2010 US Amateur.

So let's not try and pre-judge what we don't know, or forecast based on subjective snippets about the place, and offer a few notes based upon what we do know about the PGA Tour season:

1).For the second straight week an Englishman was beaten into second place by a first-time "foreign" winner, David Lingmerth beating Justin Rose at the Memorial, Fabian Gomez outplaying Greg Owen, and everyone else, in Memphis.
Greg Owen played out of his skin, his customary excellent ball-striking giving him a chance, and putting with a calm stroke seldom seen from him. Although he looked a bit jittery on his back nine, his usually questionable composure only betrayed him following a 3-wood wide-right into the water on #12 and subsequent demolition of said club. Good job he didn't really need it after that.
The man from Mansfield earned his richest golfing pay-day and gives himself an even chance of keeping his Tour card for another year, via the Top 125 in earnings if not the Top 125 in FedEx points.

2).And, after a 3-month string of tournaments being won by high echelon players, we now have three in a row won by unheralded non-Americans, with Bowditch having won in Dallas. Imagine that trend may screech to a halt this week.

3).Russell Knox continued his run of good form and extended his lead in bogey-free rounds on Tour these past two seasons. $300K in Knox's pocket in the last three weeks without threatening to contend for a title. Apart from being no better than Tour average around the greens, Knox has scarcely a weakness in his game:
Eighth in greens in regulation.
Second in "proximity to the hole".
But does he have that "extra gear" needed to win tournaments? He has a week off and hopefully the rest will helpful as he goes to Hartford next week to play a course which suits him down to the ground.

4).Luke Donald showed glimpses of a return to form in Memphis, but McDool missed the cut. Both are in real danger of failing to earn their way into the FedEx Play-Offs; at least Luke shows signs of adjusting his schedule accordingly - he'll visit Hartford for the first time and, if he fails to qualify for St.Andrews, may add another US event. Meanwhile, Brian Davis started out like a house on fire in Memphis, but the early flashes of form became extinguished as he struggled the rest of the way. Odds against him retaining his card without a visit to the WTF series.

5).And so to Chambers Bay, in the great Pacific North-West, just outside Seattle. No idea what to expect from the course and the USGA set-up. And no idea what to expect from Fox TV as they broadcast their first Pro tournament. Just hoping for the best on both counts.


Last edited by kwinigolfer on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Bob_the_Job Tue 16 Jun 2015, 4:53 pm

Cheers Kwini

If nothing else, I'm intrigued to see Chambers Bay and it's interesting to go into a major with no real expectation about what is going to happen.
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Post by sirbenson Tue 16 Jun 2015, 5:04 pm

Intrigued to see what Chambers Bay plays like! Cannot remember such talk about a course going into a major ever tbh!

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Post by pedro Tue 16 Jun 2015, 5:11 pm

4b) we also know that the other Donald (The Donald) has returned to form - and that he shouldn't rely on kwini's support. In fact I guess you'd like him to visit the WTF series - and stay there!

Looking forward to CB. Who do we fancy? Long hitters / good putters? Dustin/Jordan? Bubba/Furyk? Phil (outside category)? Depending on which Rory shows up I have a hard time seeing which European could take this - although the linksy type course should suit the Euro style; McDool seems out of form, Kaymer maybe, Garcia should never be relied on, Stenson bit of an enigma, Rose again? Hmm. Headscratch

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 16 Jun 2015, 7:19 pm

I like this Twitternopsys from Brad Fritsch - who always seems a really good guy:

https://twitter.com/BradFritsch

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Post by 1GrumpyGolfer Tue 16 Jun 2015, 8:07 pm

Loved one of his messages about how different this US Open is; caddy doesn't know where to put the bag down beside the practice green as you can't tell where it begins...

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Post by sirbenson Tue 16 Jun 2015, 8:08 pm

For those who have Sky...it seems like they are starting coverage at 4:30 on Thurs and Friday instead of 5!! (Running to 4 am)

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Post by Shotrock Tue 16 Jun 2015, 9:23 pm

Already did my "Pick Six" ... and may not have selected this competitor ... but the feel good story of the day: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/11677081/US-Open-2015-Jimmy-Gunn-former-oil-rig-worker-qualifies-through-back-door-at-age-of-34.html

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 16 Jun 2015, 9:35 pm

Further to JAS's comments about fairways ending and greens starting, here's more on that bizarre situation:

http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2015/06/chambers-bay-white-dots-us-open-greens.html?mbid=nl_061615_daily_hitlist&CNDID=25665405&spMailingID=7830966&spUserID=OTA2NDc1MDkyNzUS1&spJobID=702087817&spReportId=NzAyMDg3ODE3S0

Sure to create problems/issues!

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Post by I'm never wrong Tue 16 Jun 2015, 9:39 pm

Get some Tippex(R) out and draw a line around each green.


Last edited by I'm never wrong on Tue 16 Jun 2015, 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Can't spell)

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Post by sirbenson Tue 16 Jun 2015, 10:06 pm

pedro wrote:4b) we also know that the other Donald (The Donald) has returned to form - and that he shouldn't rely on kwini's support. In fact I guess you'd like him to visit the WTF series - and stay there!

Looking forward to CB. Who do we fancy? Long hitters / good putters? Dustin/Jordan? Bubba/Furyk? Phil (outside category)? Depending on which Rory shows up I have a hard time seeing which European could take this - although the linksy type course should suit the Euro style; McDool seems out of form, Kaymer maybe, Garcia should never be relied on, Stenson bit of an enigma, Rose again? Hmm. Headscratch

Kaymer has really struggled since spurring that large lead in Abu Dhabi....i'd say this course maybe right up his alley...

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Post by sirbenson Tue 16 Jun 2015, 11:23 pm

Have you guys seen the secret tour pro account on twitter....some are saying it's Geoff Ogilvy

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Post by McLaren Wed 17 Jun 2015, 12:23 pm

Chambers bay was designed specifically to hold a US open so if it fails to deliver harsh criticism will be deserved. But as I have said many times, lets wait until the event has finished to decide whether or not it was fan friendly and provided interesting golf.


sirB

Not seen that, do you have a link?
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Post by super_realist Wed 17 Jun 2015, 12:38 pm

The BBC are reporting in their US Open Tee Times that Henrik Stenson is now from Denmark.

Do the BBC just put non golfing work experience on their golf reporting? Hopeless.

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 17 Jun 2015, 12:53 pm

Mac,
Just google it.

Certainly better than this month's GD Undercover Pro who sounds about the most unpleasant, entitled brat you're likely to find on a golfcourse. Almost Trump-esque.

The USGA has pretty much advertised the US Open won't be fan-friendly. If you can't follow the golfers around the course, what's the point in going?

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Post by MontysMerkin Wed 17 Jun 2015, 1:48 pm

Having watched them battle some great conditions at the Irish Open, I can't wait to see em having to plot their way round this place, trying to eke out a score. That to me is golf, I really don't like the normal tour stops where you just fire at pins...
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Post by sirbenson Wed 17 Jun 2015, 2:08 pm

McLaren wrote:Chambers bay was designed specifically to hold a US open so if it fails to deliver harsh criticism will be deserved.  But as I have said many times, lets wait until the event has finished to decide whether or not it was fan friendly and provided interesting golf.


sirB

Not seen that, do you have a link?
https://twitter.com/secrettourpro

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Post by sirbenson Wed 17 Jun 2015, 2:10 pm

MontysMerkin wrote:Having watched them battle some great conditions at the Irish Open, I can't wait to see em having to plot their way round this place, trying to eke out a score. That to me is golf, I really don't like the normal tour stops where you just fire at pins...

Someone on the Five Live preview said it is like Royal County Down on Steroids!

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Post by McLaren Wed 17 Jun 2015, 2:36 pm

sirB

Secret tour pro seems to hate stacka and tilt. That has to be a good sign who ever it is.

Do you follow them and if so is it worth it?
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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 17 Jun 2015, 2:57 pm

McLaren wrote:sirB

Secret tour pro seems to hate stacka and tilt.  That has to be a good sign who ever it is.

Do you follow them and if so is it worth it?
Yeah, because you've both read the literature on that method, have tried it out and are a swing expert Rolling Eyes.
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Post by McLaren Wed 17 Jun 2015, 3:05 pm

Navy

You do know that stack and tilt advocates more head movement than conventionally taught?
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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 17 Jun 2015, 3:06 pm

Been there and done that at Chambers Bay.
Some interesting results from the US Amateur in 2010.
Those who who missed qualifying for MatchPlay, including a very young Jordan Spieth;
Russell Henley
Stiggy Hodgson
Daniel Berger
Bud Cauley
Derek Ernst
Brooks Koepka
Kevin Phelan
Andrew Putnam
Spieth
Zac Blair
Austin Cook (didn't think much of the biblical reference on his bag last week in Memphis. Who does he think he is? A Touring Pro?)




Beaten in First Round:
Andrea Pavan - What's become of him? Thought he'd turn into a top player.
Nick Taylor - Already won on PGA Tour


Beaten in Round 2:
Emiliano Grillo - Sure to win soon.
Hudson Swafford - Probably making more money off commercials than PGA Tour.
Patrick Reed - Top Five player isn't he? Playing US Open
Patrick Rodgers - Next big thing?
Justin Thomas - Next big thing, last month edition
Blayne Barber - Playing US Open


Beaten in Round 3:
Harris English - Next big thing, 2013/2014 edition

Lost in Q-Finals:
Morgan Hoffmann - Playing US Open
Max Homa - Next big thing 2015/2016?
Scott Langley - Hope he's the "nice guy" who eventually finishes first.

Lost in Semis:
Byeong-Hun An - Playing US Open: Got to love the confluence of course form and recent Wentworth win
Patrick Cantlay - Seems permanently injured, playing some on web.com Tour.

Final:
Peter Uihlein beat David Chung


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Post by Shotrock Wed 17 Jun 2015, 3:09 pm

FWIW ... Stack and Tilt helped me a good bit. (But pretty much anything would have helped me.)

Bottom line, less distance, more accuracy. I'm guessing better for the weekend hacker like myself than the professional who needs to make a living where both long AND straight are required.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 17 Jun 2015, 3:31 pm

McLaren wrote:Navy

You do know that stack and tilt advocates more head movement than conventionally taught?
Why no Mac, I don't believe it does. Have you read Bennett and Plummer's book? I could be wrong, but I don't recall it advocating either side-to-side and/or up-and-down head movement as a way to better ball striking.


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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune Wed 17 Jun 2015, 3:32 pm

Whose is everyones tip for US Open?

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Post by McLaren Wed 17 Jun 2015, 3:38 pm

Tiger Woods or Monty. That's where to put your money SOF.
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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 17 Jun 2015, 3:44 pm

Soldier:
Have a gaze at sportform's "US Open Competition" thread on this board - you can see who guys have chosen and have a go yourself.


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Post by sirbenson Thu 18 Jun 2015, 12:54 am

Tiger on the range Wednesday afternoon, how times are changing!

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Post by sirbenson Thu 18 Jun 2015, 1:15 am

Michael Collins ‏@ESPNCaddie 31m31 minutes ago
Two caddies down... Gareth Lord (wrist) and Damian Moore (leg) were both hurt in falls @usopengolf Wednesday. Moore left on a stretcher


Stenson's and Gallacher's caddies

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Post by hend085 Thu 18 Jun 2015, 8:08 am

i like kevin kisner (relative outsider) and retief goosen (big outsider) as value bets.

cant see rory going well here. i dont think he has the discipline on a hard /fast course and he simply isnt good enough at the 4 and 5 footers which i think will be more important here than in a usual week.

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Post by Davie Thu 18 Jun 2015, 10:48 am

I see Mrs Monty McDoubtfire is moaning about the greens already Rolling Eyes

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Post by Roller_Coaster Thu 18 Jun 2015, 11:00 am

Davie wrote:I see Mrs Monty McDoubtfire is moaning about the greens already Rolling Eyes

It's OK, he probably won't see much of them.


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Post by pedro Thu 18 Jun 2015, 11:40 am

He should be happy just getting to play.

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Post by super_realist Thu 18 Jun 2015, 12:31 pm

sirbenson wrote:Michael Collins ‏@ESPNCaddie  31m31 minutes ago
Two caddies down... Gareth Lord (wrist) and Damian Moore (leg) were both hurt in falls @usopengolf Wednesday. Moore left on a stretcher


Stenson's and Gallacher's caddies

this is truly pathetic. How an a grown man injure himself walking?

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Post by incontinentia Thu 18 Jun 2015, 12:34 pm

What time is this kicking off?
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Post by LadyPutt Thu 18 Jun 2015, 12:37 pm

incontinentia wrote:What time is this kicking off?
According to Grumpy in his Fantasy League thread "The first Chambers Bay tee times are starting at 7:00AM, that's 10:00AM on the East Coast, and 3:00PM in sunny England/Ireland"!
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Post by sirbenson Thu 18 Jun 2015, 12:45 pm

Yep, it starts at 3, I think Sky have red button coverage of the Mickelson group from 3:30 and the live coverage starts at 4:30

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Post by sirbenson Thu 18 Jun 2015, 12:47 pm

Monty moaning....It kind of shows why he has never won a major, his attitude is all wrong

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Post by incontinentia Thu 18 Jun 2015, 12:59 pm

Thanks guys. I see Stenson has branded the course as "dangerous" after tumbles taken by the two caddies and also a bad spill by a scorer during a practice round.

Lets hope there are no more injuries.
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Post by LadyPutt Thu 18 Jun 2015, 1:02 pm

sirbenson wrote:Monty moaning....It kind of shows why he has never won a major, his attitude is all wrong
Not a "regular" major I agree - but he's won 3 Senior ones (US Senior PGA twice - 2014 and 2015 - and US Senior Open once - 2014 - which is more than can be said for a lot of them.
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Post by sirbenson Thu 18 Jun 2015, 1:13 pm

LadyPutt wrote:
sirbenson wrote:Monty moaning....It kind of shows why he has never won a major, his attitude is all wrong
Not a "regular" major I agree - but he's won 3 Senior ones (US Senior PGA twice - 2014 and 2015 - and US Senior Open once - 2014 - which is more than can be said for a lot of them.

Haha I know but he'd swap them in a heartbeat for a just one regular major

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Post by kwinigolfer Thu 18 Jun 2015, 1:25 pm

It sounds as if Pete Cowen impaled himself on a rake that snapped.

Plenty of caddies have been badly hurt during tournaments, not good that two have gone down already. "100-foot drops in some areas and 500-yard uphill hikes in others" according to USAToday.
Glen Murray saying that sherpaing would be more appropriate term for their task this week.

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Post by raycastleunited Thu 18 Jun 2015, 1:32 pm

LadyPutt wrote:
sirbenson wrote:Monty moaning....It kind of shows why he has never won a major, his attitude is all wrong
Not a "regular" major I agree - but he's won 3 Senior ones (US Senior PGA twice - 2014 and 2015 - and US Senior Open once - 2014 - which is more than can be said for a lot of them.

Meaningless. There are only 4 majors.

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PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by navyblueshorts Thu 18 Jun 2015, 1:33 pm

super_realist wrote:
sirbenson wrote:Michael Collins ‏@ESPNCaddie  31m31 minutes ago
Two caddies down... Gareth Lord (wrist) and Damian Moore (leg) were both hurt in falls @usopengolf Wednesday. Moore left on a stretcher


Stenson's and Gallacher's caddies

this is truly pathetic. How an a grown man injure himself walking?
For the hard of reading ( boxing ), it says "both hurt in falls". I imagine anyone can hurt themselves doing that.
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PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist Thu 18 Jun 2015, 1:36 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:
sirbenson wrote:Michael Collins ‏@ESPNCaddie  31m31 minutes ago
Two caddies down... Gareth Lord (wrist) and Damian Moore (leg) were both hurt in falls @usopengolf Wednesday. Moore left on a stretcher


Stenson's and Gallacher's caddies

this is truly pathetic. How an a grown man injure himself walking?
For the hard of reading ( boxing ), it says "both hurt in falls". I imagine anyone can hurt themselves doing that.

Falling on a golf course? How is that possible? Not like he's mounting climbing, hurdling, pole vaulting, horse racing, cycling or anything dangerous. They are WALKING. Who has EVER fallen over whilst walking?

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PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Thu 18 Jun 2015, 1:39 pm

Forecast for next 36 hours:
Today: Morning clouds, afternoon sun. 70's, breezes about 10 mph
Tonight: Chance of showers
Friday: Chance of morning showers, 70's but with a wind shift.
Saturday and Sunday about the same as today.

With tales of some fairways being faster than adjoining greens, would think the USGA will welcome any rain they can get.

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PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Roller_Coaster Thu 18 Jun 2015, 1:54 pm

I like really fast US opens.

The players that is...

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PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by LadyPutt Thu 18 Jun 2015, 1:54 pm

super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:
sirbenson wrote:Michael Collins ‏@ESPNCaddie  31m31 minutes ago
Two caddies down... Gareth Lord (wrist) and Damian Moore (leg) were both hurt in falls @usopengolf Wednesday. Moore left on a stretcher


Stenson's and Gallacher's caddies

this is truly pathetic. How an a grown man injure himself walking?
For the hard of reading ( boxing ), it says "both hurt in falls". I imagine anyone can hurt themselves doing that.

Falling on a golf course? How is that possible? Not like he's mounting climbing, hurdling, pole vaulting, horse racing, cycling or anything dangerous. They are WALKING. Who has EVER fallen over whilst walking?

Try reading this: http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/13103889/2015-us-open-caddies-injured-falls-hilly-chambers-bay or this http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/18/henrik-stenson-us-open-course-dangerous-caddies or maybe this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/usopen/11682924/US-Open-2015-Two-caddies-hospitalised-by-falls-on-dangerous-course.html if your political leanings are the other way. As people have been saying for weeks now, Chambers Bay is not an "ordinary" golf course.


Last edited by LadyPutt on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Shotrock Thu 18 Jun 2015, 1:57 pm

If this is truly a US Open/Links test, it should favor many a European. Really looking forward to the action.

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PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: US Open, Into the Unknown: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist Thu 18 Jun 2015, 2:00 pm

LadyPutt wrote:
super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:
sirbenson wrote:Michael Collins ‏@ESPNCaddie  31m31 minutes ago
Two caddies down... Gareth Lord (wrist) and Damian Moore (leg) were both hurt in falls @usopengolf Wednesday. Moore left on a stretcher


Stenson's and Gallacher's caddies

this is truly pathetic. How an a grown man injure himself walking?
For the hard of reading ( boxing ), it says "both hurt in falls". I imagine anyone can hurt themselves doing that.

Falling on a golf course? How is that possible? Not like he's mounting climbing, hurdling, pole vaulting, horse racing, cycling or anything dangerous. They are WALKING. Who has EVER fallen over whilst walking?

Try reading this: http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/13103889/2015-us-open-caddies-injured-falls-hilly-chambers-bay or this http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/18/henrik-stenson-us-open-course-dangerous-caddies or maybe this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/usopen/11682924/US-Open-2015-Two-caddies-hospitalised-by-falls-on-dangerous-course.html if your political leanings are the other way. As people have been saying for weeks now, Chambers Bay is not an "ordinary" golf course.

I still don't see it as an excuse. It's mal-coordination and not paying attention. No one should ever fall over walking.

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