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Is it time for the regions to start answering questions ?

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Luckless Pedestrian
Welsh Magician
No 7&1/2
Welshmushroom
Chunky Norwich
GavinDragon
Cardiff Dave
Hazel Sapling
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LordDowlais
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Post by LordDowlais Wed 17 Jun 2015, 2:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well, we all know what we are like in Wales, what with our in fighting and the what not, over the last few years the WRU have been scrutinised and put under the microscope by us, the Welsh premiership has been scrutinised and it is looking like it is being changed, the only other part of Welsh rugby that has not yet been scrutinised and put under the microscope are the regions.

Now that the regions have negotiated a better deal with the WRU and we now have dual contracts and more money for the regions, for me I think it is inevitable that now the other members of the WRU are going to start to ask questions if the performances of the regions do not improve, the regions cannot in my opinion be allowed to remain in the status quo without answering any questions if their performances do not improve, I think it is now time for the regions to start shouldering a little more responsibility and be made to answer if performances do not start showing signs of improvement, we need to start looking at getting all four teams in the top six of the league now, and in future we should start seeing better performances in Europe, this is why the regions rightfully negotiated a better deal from the WRU.

They won the war a few months ago, now they must perform to show what they have fought for and won was the right thing to do, they must show an improvement or they should come under the microscope just as the WRU has, and the lower level rugby has.

Does anybody else agree with this ? Or do you think that the regions should be allowed to keep the status quo they are currently enjoying ?

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Post by Guest Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:07 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote: Plus we only signed him on a year's contract, so it was hardly a waste of money.

You did not need him, thus he was a waste of money.

How did we not need him? We had no real 8 cover in the absence of Faletau. I suspect we hardly broke the bank bringing him in too.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:07 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:He hasn't mentionedthe likes of Jake Ball. Plucked from relative obscurity, now on a dual contract at test level. Or Josh Matavesi. Or Rynier Bernardo.

Yes, but that kind of strengthens my point, the players are out there, some of the players to play for the regions over the years have been rubbish, anyway we are moving away from the point here. The regions are now holding onto there best players with DC, that is to go with the few decent NWQ players they already have, they now have extra money to bolster their squads, with more decent players, so I would like to see an improvement next season thank you very much, an upward curve, no more whipping boys, time to step up to the mark.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:07 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Who should they sign?

I don't know, but surely their scouts could do better than what they are doing. Cardiff Blues have just signed an American second rower, I hope he is decent, I have never heard of him, please do not tell me that their scouting network only goes as far as England.

Takes a fair bit of work to uncover a diamond though and they're not all going to work and a lot of money to get the top players. They're in competition with everyone else as well.

He hasn't mentionedthe likes of Jake Ball. Plucked from relative obscurity, now on a dual contract at test level. Or Josh Matavesi. Or Rynier Bernardo.

Which is fair enough, my point though is that top teams are developed over time. Unless you have an unlimited budget to hand pick practically anyone it's still a challenge which is unlikely to be completed in a matter of months from a low starting position. Even buying talent sometimes means a settling in period.

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Post by Welsh Magician Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:07 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Welsh Magician wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:If the regions are run properly then there is no reason why Blues,Scarlets and Ospreys could not finish in the top six, I would like to see Dragons getting the playoff place.
But then wouldn't the Irish teams and/or Glasgow need to answer questions for finishing below teams with lower budgets than them?

As I have said earlier on this thread, if I was Irish, I would already be questioning Leinsters performance last season, and if I was Scottish, I would be very peeved at the way Edinburgh go about their business, but I am Welsh, so I am only asking for improvement form OUR regions.
If every team in the league had a similar budget then yes you could argue that those who finish at the bottom should be under scrutiny, but the budgets are not similar across the league. The Welsh teams have far less to spend than the Irish and even the Scottish do (as they spread their money over two teams), therefore, in your opinion, the Welsh teams will have to all beat teams who have bigger budgets than them every week of every season or be under scrutiny? It is like asking Swansea city fc to finish top 6 every season or else have their coach sacked, you're expecting far too much of teams with far lower budgets.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:10 pm

Come on LD, lets see your Pro12 Top 12 placings wishlist for next year please.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:11 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote: Plus we only signed him on a year's contract, so it was hardly a waste of money.

You did not need him, thus he was a waste of money.

How did we not need him? We had no real 8 cover in the absence of Faletau. I suspect we hardly broke the bank bringing him in too.

Toby Faletua
James Benjamin
Oliver Griffiths
Scott Matthews

Are all players you already had to play no. 8 before Andy Powell.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:11 pm

LordDowlais wrote: The regions are now holding onto there best players with DC, that is to go with the few decent NWQ players they already have, they now have extra money to bolster their squads, with more decent players, so I would like to see an improvement next season thank you very much.

But they haven't have they. Yet you want to see immediate improvement over their richer rivals. Bonkers.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:13 pm

Welsh Magician wrote: It is like asking Swansea city fc to finish top 6 every season or else have their coach sacked, you're expecting far too much of teams with far lower budgets.

Did I imagine Ospreys doing just that last season ?

Also who said anything about sacking coaches ? I am questioning the running of the regions, Cardiff Blues last season was nothing short of a joke.


Last edited by LordDowlais on Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:13 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
LordDowlais wrote: The regions are now holding onto there best players with DC, that is to go with the few decent NWQ players they already have, they now have extra money to bolster their squads, with more decent players, so I would like to see an improvement next season thank you very much.

But they haven't have they. Yet you want to see immediate improvement over their richer rivals. Bonkers.

Well what are they doing with the extra money then ?

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Post by Guest Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:15 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Welsh Magician wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:If the regions are run properly then there is no reason why Blues,Scarlets and Ospreys could not finish in the top six, I would like to see Dragons getting the playoff place.
But then wouldn't the Irish teams and/or Glasgow need to answer questions for finishing below teams with lower budgets than them?

As I have said earlier on this thread, if I was Irish, I would already be questioning Leinsters performance last season, and if I was Scottish, I would be very peeved at the way Edinburgh go about their business, but I am Welsh, so I am only asking for improvement form OUR regions.

Only Connacht have really improved this season. None of the other three Provinces have improved. They've slipped back. Nothing to panic about at this stage though. Munster are a team in transition, as are Ulster. Leinster have been hit hardest with players being picked for internationals. Their coach at the time wasn't great either. Next season I expect all Provinces to improve, although not dramatically so. The following season I expect big improvements.

Sorry for going off thread slightly. Just my tuppence worth. Will leave you all to it Very Happy

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Post by Guest Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:15 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote: Plus we only signed him on a year's contract, so it was hardly a waste of money.

You did not need him, thus he was a waste of money.

How did we not need him? We had no real 8 cover in the absence of Faletau. I suspect we hardly broke the bank bringing him in too.

Toby Faletua
James Benjamin
Oliver Griffiths
Scott Matthews

Are all players you already had to play no. 8 before Andy Powell.

Right so, IN THE ABSENCE OF FALETAU, we had Faletau and three under 20s players who are predominately 7s and most if not all weren't even on full time Dragons contracts. Blinking heck mun.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:16 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Come on LD, lets see your Pro12 Top 12 placings wishlist for next year please.

How can I give specific placings ? I am not mystic meg FFS. I expect the regions to be fighting to be in the top six, not just one, and one scrapping in on the last day, I think they should all be there or there about's.

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Post by Welsh Magician Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:17 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Welsh Magician wrote: It is like asking Swansea city fc to finish top 6 every season or else have their coach sacked, you're expecting far too much of teams with far lower budgets.

Did I imagine Ospreys doing just that last season ?
We did well, above expectations. Are you smart enough to realize that in a league system not every team can finish above their expected position? If the 4 Welsh regions make the top 6 then that means the some of the Irish teams and Glasgow will be far below their expectations? Actually, it would be like asking Swansea to finish above Manchester United every season.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:18 pm

Risca Rev wrote:Right so, IN THE ABSENCE OF FALETAU, we had Faletau and three under 20s players who are predominately 7s and most if not all weren't even on full time Dragons contracts. Blinking heck mun.

Well for what Andy Powell actually did for you last season you might has well played James Benjamin instead.

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Post by Fanster Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:18 pm

Just out of interest, If Cardiff Blues had a larger budget they could have a starting XV of...

Jenkins Dacey Andrews
Davies ???
Warburton Delve Navidi
Williams Patchell
Roberts Allen
James Halfpenny Cuthbert

Now thats basically a homegrown XV (Sorry I couldn't put another lock off the top of my head) and realistically a top 6 Pro 12 team, maybe even a playoff team, certainly the backline is potent!

I think the WRU have recognised that bringing talent through is not where the regions struggle, it's securing the top talent once theyre established, and have ade tracks to solve that problem.

As it stands the Blues backline is a mash of utility players at 10/12 a back 3 of Cuthbert and whoevers fit, Fish and Smith are certainly not great, and a centre partner to Allen when fit of whoever turns up match day.

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Post by Welsh Magician Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:19 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Come on LD, lets see your Pro12 Top 12 placings wishlist for next year please.

How can I give specific placings ? I am not mystic meg FFS. I expect the regions to be fighting to be in the top six, not just one, and one scrapping in on the last day, I think they should all be there or there about's.
Well if you are expecting the regions to be in the top 6, where do you expect the Irish, Scottish, and Italians teams to place? Its not that difficult.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:20 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
LordDowlais wrote: The regions are now holding onto there best players with DC, that is to go with the few decent NWQ players they already have, they now have extra money to bolster their squads, with more decent players, so I would like to see an improvement next season thank you very much.

But they haven't have they. Yet you want to see immediate improvement over their richer rivals. Bonkers.

Well what are they doing with the extra money then ?

Paying the legal costs it took to win the war.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:21 pm

Welsh Magician wrote:If the 4 Welsh regions make the top 6 then that means the some of the Irish teams and Glasgow will be far below their expectations?

I am fully aware of that, but I do not see Munster being such the big hitters they have been over the years next season, and Leinster seem to be struggling, and I at least expect Dragons and Blues to be better than Edinburgh and Connacht. Is that too much to ask for ?

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Post by Guest Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:21 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:Right so, IN THE ABSENCE OF FALETAU, we had Faletau and three under 20s players who are predominately 7s and most if not all weren't even on full time Dragons contracts. Blinking heck mun.

Well for what Andy Powell actually did for you last season you might has well played James Benjamin instead.

Nice back tracking. Have you actually seen the size of James Benjamin? You should know he's not going to be able to play 8 at pro level, if you had.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:22 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Welsh Magician wrote:If the 4 Welsh regions make the top 6 then that means the some of the Irish teams and Glasgow will be far below their expectations?

I am fully aware of that, but I do not see Munster being such the big hitters they have been over the years next season, and Leinster seem to be struggling, and I at least expect Dragons and Blues to be better than Edinburgh and Connacht. Is that too much to ask for ?

Edinburgh and Connacht had bigger budgets that the Scarlets and the Dragons last year. Connacht now probably have a bigger budget than all Welsh regions!

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Post by Fanster Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:24 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:Right so, IN THE ABSENCE OF FALETAU, we had Faletau and three under 20s players who are predominately 7s and most if not all weren't even on full time Dragons contracts. Blinking heck mun.

Well for what Andy Powell actually did for you last season you might has well played James Benjamin instead.

Nice back tracking. Have you actually seen the size of James Benjamin? You should know he's not going to be able to play 8 at pro level, if you had.

The 3 players named are 7's and pretty small for their age let alone for pro rugby.

Wheres Lewis Evans btw? His good run a while back was at 8 wasn't it?

Although I agree Powell was a ridiculous signing, you can't blame the poor to be signing cheap.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:25 pm

What's the wage cap like in Wales anyway, you still have it? Are all the teams well below it or is it as murky as England?

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:26 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
LordDowlais wrote: The regions are now holding onto there best players with DC, that is to go with the few decent NWQ players they already have, they now have extra money to bolster their squads, with more decent players, so I would like to see an improvement next season thank you very much.

But they haven't have they. Yet you want to see immediate improvement over their richer rivals. Bonkers.

Well what are they doing with the extra money then ?

Paying the legal costs it took to win the war.

So that's the excuse for next season already then ?

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:28 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:What's the wage cap like in Wales anyway, you still have it? Are all the teams well below it or is it as murky as England?

Ospreys and Blues are shouting to get it raised.

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Post by Welsh Magician Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:30 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:What's the wage cap like in Wales anyway, you still have it? Are all the teams well below it or is it as murky as England?

Ospreys and Blues are shouting to get it raised.
It is still below the Irish and Glasgow budgets, and the difference is not even in the thousands of pounds, its millions.

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Post by Guest Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:30 pm

Lewis Evans is injured with a wrist injury. I think he's fit for pre-season games though (if we indeed announce any more). I suspect he will be 6 cover next season (James Thomas starting) and Crosswell will start 8 with Jackson backing him up until Faletau comes back (if he does).


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Post by LordDowlais Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:34 pm

Risca Rev wrote: until Faletau comes back (if he does).

Here's hoping. Fingers Crossed

I would hate to see another Welsh international leave Wales, something must be wrong if he will not sign a DC.

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Post by Fanster Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:35 pm

Welsh Magician wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:What's the wage cap like in Wales anyway, you still have it? Are all the teams well below it or is it as murky as England?

Ospreys and Blues are shouting to get it raised.
It is still below the Irish and Glasgow budgets, and the difference is not even in the thousands of pounds, its millions.

There has to be no way Blues are spending in the region of 3.5 (If thats what it is)

I once heard the Dragons were the cheapest team to run in the Pro 12 by a mile, and were only spending around 1 million or so on players wage? Or is that total cr4p?

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Post by Welsh Magician Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:40 pm

Fanster wrote:
Welsh Magician wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:What's the wage cap like in Wales anyway, you still have it? Are all the teams well below it or is it as murky as England?

Ospreys and Blues are shouting to get it raised.
It is still below the Irish and Glasgow budgets, and the difference is not even in the thousands of pounds, its millions.

There has to be no way Blues are spending in the region of 3.5 (If thats what it is)

I once heard the Dragons were the cheapest team to run in the Pro 12 by a mile, and were only spending around 1 million or so on players wage? Or is that total cr4p?
I believe, except for 1 other team, the Welsh sides have the 4 lowest budgets out of the 38 teams across the Top14, Aviva, and Pro12.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:42 pm

Welsh Magician wrote:
I believe, except for 1 other team, the Welsh sides have the 4 lowest budgets out of the 38 teams across the Top14, Aviva, and Pro12.

This was stated at a Scarlets meet the board event too I believe.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:43 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:What's the wage cap like in Wales anyway, you still have it? Are all the teams well below it or is it as murky as England?

It's about to be either abolished or raised from £3.5m.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:43 pm

LordDowlais wrote:

So that's the excuse for next season already then ?

It's an answer to your question.

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Post by Fanster Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:48 pm

Welsh Magician wrote:
Fanster wrote:
Welsh Magician wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:What's the wage cap like in Wales anyway, you still have it? Are all the teams well below it or is it as murky as England?

Ospreys and Blues are shouting to get it raised.
It is still below the Irish and Glasgow budgets, and the difference is not even in the thousands of pounds, its millions.

There has to be no way Blues are spending in the region of 3.5 (If thats what it is)

I once heard the Dragons were the cheapest team to run in the Pro 12 by a mile, and were only spending around 1 million or so on players wage? Or is that total cr4p?
I believe, except for 1 other team, the Welsh sides have the 4 lowest budgets out of the 38 teams across the Top14, Aviva, and Pro12.

Wow, thats a chilling fact! I'm guessing the Dragons are the bottom of the regions too?

Who is the 1 team Zebre?

Why is it, in this climate, when the WRU have proudly boasted of X% increases off the MS debt etc that they let their club product digress to this?

Also the guys in charge of the clubs, is there no ambition? no funding? or is it just a stale head to head between them and the governing body that has led to these times?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:50 pm

Fanster wrote:

Why is it, in this climate, when the WRU have proudly boasted of X% increases off the MS debt etc that they let their club product digress to this?

Is this the first you are hearing of this?

Also the guys in charge of the clubs, is there no ambition? no funding? or is it just a stale head to head between them and the governing body that has led to these times?

The guys in charge have put £40m of their own money propping Welsh rugby up in the last 10 years. Please keep that in mnd.

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Post by Fanster Tue 23 Jun 2015, 1:59 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Fanster wrote:

Why is it, in this climate, when the WRU have proudly boasted of X% increases off the MS debt etc that they let their club product digress to this?

Is this the first you are hearing of this?

Also the guys in charge of the clubs, is there no ambition? no funding? or is it just a stale head to head between them and the governing body that has led to these times?

The guys in charge have put £40m of their own money propping Welsh  rugby up in the last 10 years. Please keep that in mnd.

What do you mean Norwich? I of course knew the welsh regions were underfunded, but to be the bottom 4 teams in europe is news to me yes!!!

Are you saying the 4 (3.5) regional owners are the saviour of Welsh rugby? I'd suggest the nuke that was regionalism was pretty much compounded by everyone trying to get their own interests first and foremost! Whoever was stupid enough to believe the small town of Llanelli could sustain a pro rugby club has only himself to blame, I'd say Thomas isn't going to lose a penny once he cashes in on all that debt he leant himself, and I don't see any real money going into the Dragons whatsoever so who are these saint benifactors, and why were they so generous this last decade?

Had every ego listened to reason at the start there may be a product of Club rugby in Wales that made money, as it happened the product was ripped apart by about a group of a dozen people.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:04 pm

Fanster wrote:Had every ego listened to reason at the start there may be a product of Club rugby in Wales that made money, as it happened the product was ripped apart by about a group of a dozen people.

Again, Fanster, I am agreeing with you all the time as of late, at least you can see the real picture, not some rose tinted one from inside a regional bubble.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:11 pm

Fanster wrote:Are you saying the 4 (3.5) regional owners are the saviour of Welsh rugby? I'd suggest the nuke that was regionalism was pretty much compounded by everyone trying to get their own interests first and foremost!

To a point your right here. The WRU had no money at the time to form regions that they owned (like Ireland), so the money men were desperately needed to carry out the regional dream.

Fanster wrote:Whoever was stupid enough to believe the small town of Llanelli could sustain a pro rugby club has only himself to blame

The Scarlets are the region for the West of Wales, and that is far more than just the town of Llanelli, it is the three counties of Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire, and Ceredigion.

Fanster wrote:I don't see any real money going into the Dragons whatsoever so who are these saint benifactors, and why were they so generous this last decade?

Ah that would be the one region the WRU half own.
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Post by Fanster Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:12 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Fanster wrote:Had every ego listened to reason at the start there may be a product of Club rugby in Wales that made money, as it happened the product was ripped apart by about a group of a dozen people.

Again, Fanster, I am agreeing with you all the time as of late, at least you can see the real picture, not some rose tinted one from inside a regional bubble.

haha thanks

Maybe it's because i'm a bit of an outsider, or that my perspective seems to be the game as a global and national entity first, I just seem to see huge amounts of mistakes from most sides, and find people who only attack/defend one sides arguments a little floppy. And thats not just Welsh rugby, it's all rugby, all governing bodies, all league umbrella corporations, clubs, national teams and individuals.

Maybe i'm just a cantankourus old bugger lol

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:17 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Fanster wrote:Had every ego listened to reason at the start there may be a product of Club rugby in Wales that made money, as it happened the product was ripped apart by about a group of a dozen people.

Again, Fanster, I am agreeing with you all the time as of late, at least you can see the real picture, not some rose tinted one from inside a regional bubble.

The truth is that if there had been huge pits of cash sloshing around in the WRU's bank account back in 2002 and they still wanted to go regional, then they would have created four/five regions, based in geographic regions and the union would have owned them outright. They would have absolutely no ties to the clubs other than signing up the best players at the clubs.
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Post by Guest Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:18 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Fanster wrote:Had every ego listened to reason at the start there may be a product of Club rugby in Wales that made money, as it happened the product was ripped apart by about a group of a dozen people.

Again, Fanster, I am agreeing with you all the time as of late, at least you can see the real picture, not some rose tinted one from inside a regional bubble.

The real picture? What like one where James Benjamin is an 8, where Taulupe Faletau can cover his own absence at the Dragons, despite being with Team Wales and the pro teams/regions should be competing on less of a budget? I think I prefer life in my bubble.

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Post by Fanster Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:19 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Fanster wrote:Are you saying the 4 (3.5) regional owners are the saviour of Welsh rugby? I'd suggest the nuke that was regionalism was pretty much compounded by everyone trying to get their own interests first and foremost!

To a point your right here.  The WRU had no money at the time to form regions that they owned (like Ireland), so the money men were desperately needed to carry out the regional dream.

Fanster wrote:Whoever was stupid enough to believe the small town of Llanelli could sustain a pro rugby club has only himself to blame

The Scarlets are the region for the West of Wales, and that is far more than just the town of Llanelli, it is the three counties of Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire, and Ceredigion.

Fanster wrote:I don't see any real money going into the Dragons whatsoever so who are these saint benifactors, and why were they so generous this last decade?

Ah that would be the one region the WRU half own.

Don't get me wrong, I recognise money men were needed by the WRU, mainly because of the mess they got themselves into, but to impliment regional rugby correctly they should probably have rigidly enforced a gameplan, or waited until they could impliment the gameplan correctly. There were a lot of Cheifs fighting for their way of doing things, and not necesarily for the right reasons though don't you think?

I understand the Scarlets have made huge attempts in recent years to include more, and to become a region, but come on, along with the Cardiff, and Newport names, the Llanelli kit, etc it was all a sham from the very begginning. Had there been any real forethought come inception Llanelli town wouldn't have held 1 of 5 pro teams in Wales, they probably should've done the better thing for Welsh rugby and combined like they were asked to.

I'm not saying Scarlets were the only ones, I'm saying all the regions were as bad as each other, big WRU bail outs (Was it 1 or 2) to keep the club going hurt rugby in Wales, and Ponty fans probably took the brunt of it. How would Llanelli fans have felt had the decision to keep the Warriors over Scarlets was made?

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Post by Fanster Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:20 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Fanster wrote:Had every ego listened to reason at the start there may be a product of Club rugby in Wales that made money, as it happened the product was ripped apart by about a group of a dozen people.

Again, Fanster, I am agreeing with you all the time as of late, at least you can see the real picture, not some rose tinted one from inside a regional bubble.

The truth is that if there had been huge pits of cash sloshing around in the WRU's bank account back in 2002 and they still wanted to go regional, then they would have created four/five regions, based in geographic regions and the union would have owned them outright.  They would have absolutely no ties to the clubs other than signing up the best players at the clubs.

You just put my viewpoint exactly as I meant far better than I ever could Hug

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Post by Fanster Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:22 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Fanster wrote:Had every ego listened to reason at the start there may be a product of Club rugby in Wales that made money, as it happened the product was ripped apart by about a group of a dozen people.

Again, Fanster, I am agreeing with you all the time as of late, at least you can see the real picture, not some rose tinted one from inside a regional bubble.

The real picture? What like one where James Benjamin is an 8, where Taulupe Faletau can cover his own absence at the Dragons, despite being with Team Wales and the pro teams/regions should be competing on less of a budget? I think I prefer life in my bubble.

There was no need to bring another threads discussion here, in an attempt to discredit someone was there? Cheap points = hollow victories

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:23 pm

Risca Rev wrote:The real picture? What like one where James Benjamin is an 8, where Taulupe Faletau can cover his own absence at the Dragons, despite being with Team Wales and the pro teams/regions should be competing on less of a budget? I think I prefer life in my bubble.

Perhaps you should have never left Morgan Allen go then. Or perhaps you could have tried to re-sign him before Scarlets took him, I don't know, I do not run the regions, but I know they are not being run very professionally, and the worst culprits are Cardiff Blues, why I go down there so much God himself only knows.

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Post by Guest Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:28 pm

Fanster wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Fanster wrote:Had every ego listened to reason at the start there may be a product of Club rugby in Wales that made money, as it happened the product was ripped apart by about a group of a dozen people.

Again, Fanster, I am agreeing with you all the time as of late, at least you can see the real picture, not some rose tinted one from inside a regional bubble.

The real picture? What like one where James Benjamin is an 8, where Taulupe Faletau can cover his own absence at the Dragons, despite being with Team Wales and the pro teams/regions should be competing on less of a budget? I think I prefer life in my bubble.

There was no need to bring another threads discussion here, in an attempt to discredit someone was there? Cheap points = hollow victories

These are all points on this thread? I accept your apology

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Post by Fanster Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:30 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
Fanster wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Fanster wrote:Had every ego listened to reason at the start there may be a product of Club rugby in Wales that made money, as it happened the product was ripped apart by about a group of a dozen people.

Again, Fanster, I am agreeing with you all the time as of late, at least you can see the real picture, not some rose tinted one from inside a regional bubble.

The real picture? What like one where James Benjamin is an 8, where Taulupe Faletau can cover his own absence at the Dragons, despite being with Team Wales and the pro teams/regions should be competing on less of a budget? I think I prefer life in my bubble.

There was no need to bring another threads discussion here, in an attempt to discredit someone was there? Cheap points = hollow victories

These are all points on this thread? I accept your apology

Laugh clap I am very sorry, I am trying to read and comment on the A thread too, and well am very lost Sorry

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Post by Guest Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:41 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:The real picture? What like one where James Benjamin is an 8, where Taulupe Faletau can cover his own absence at the Dragons, despite being with Team Wales and the pro teams/regions should be competing on less of a budget? I think I prefer life in my bubble.

Perhaps you should have never left Morgan Allen go then. Or perhaps you could have tried to re-sign him before Scarlets took him, I don't know, I do not run the regions, but I know they are not being run very professionally, and the worst culprits are Cardiff Blues, why I go down there so much God himself only knows.

We let Morgan Allen go, as we had Ieuan Jones (who seemingly even Ospreys supporters rate as better).

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:41 pm

Fanster wrote:I understand the Scarlets have made huge attempts in recent years to include more, and to become a region, but come on, along with the Cardiff, and Newport names, the Llanelli kit, etc it was all a sham from the very begginning. Had there been any real forethought come inception Llanelli town wouldn't have held 1 of 5 pro teams in Wales, they probably should've done the better thing for Welsh rugby and combined like they were asked to.

Ha, have a look on any other thread over the last ten years to see my reply to that one mate. Put it this way, Swansea to Bristol is 59.64miles, but Swansea to Dale (Pembrokeshire) is 53.03miles, Swansea to Aberystwyth is 55.29miles. If Llanelli RFC had merged with Swansea, then the furthest West region would be based only 4 miles further away from Bristol than it is to people who live in the regional boundaries. Given the types of roads, travel links, etc. it would probably be quicker to travel to the regional home ground from Bristol than from part of the region itself.

Fanster wrote: How would Llanelli fans have felt had the decision to keep the Warriors over Scarlets was made?

Most likely they would have been pretty peeved too. And they would have faced the same choice as Ponty & Bridgend supporters. Either deal with it quietly by following you 'new' region (like many Bridgend fans), stick to your former club in the prem (accepting their place as semi-pro) or

Also this 'the regions are all too close' argument would have been even worse with all four regions being within a 50 mile triangle in the South/South East of the country.



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Post by ScarletSpiderman Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:42 pm

Fanster wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Fanster wrote:Had every ego listened to reason at the start there may be a product of Club rugby in Wales that made money, as it happened the product was ripped apart by about a group of a dozen people.

Again, Fanster, I am agreeing with you all the time as of late, at least you can see the real picture, not some rose tinted one from inside a regional bubble.

The truth is that if there had been huge pits of cash sloshing around in the WRU's bank account back in 2002 and they still wanted to go regional, then they would have created four/five regions, based in geographic regions and the union would have owned them outright.  They would have absolutely no ties to the clubs other than signing up the best players at the clubs.

You just put my viewpoint exactly as I meant far better than I ever could Hug

The issue would still be there though. Everyone has different views of where the regional boundaries would be etc. It is in our nature to argue.
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Post by LordDowlais Tue 23 Jun 2015, 2:53 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The issue would still be there though. Everyone has different views of where the regional boundaries would be etc. It is in our nature to argue.

Exactly, I think Swansea is in the west of Wales, you do not, we will never agree, but if you were to draw a line straight down the middle of Wales Swansea would be on the left hand side of the line, so for me that is west. Cool

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