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Aviva Prem fixtures announced today - Pro12 to follow suit?

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LondonTiger
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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 03 Jul 2015, 10:43 am

First topic message reminder :

Aviva Premiership fixtures announced today. Great for the fans to be aware of when and where their teams will play.

Lets see how far the pro12 are behind in releasing theirs.

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 11:39 am

LondonTiger wrote:TBF it is not just Welsh posters who level accusations at officials from other countries. Over the years on here there has been a lot of noise from English, Irish, Kiwi and Saffer posters bemoaning corrupt or incompetent officials.

No it isn't, but the point is that some Welsh posters have turned complaining about the ref', TMO, into accusations of an Irish conspiracy.....

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 11:50 am

LondonTiger wrote:Surely if found guilty of "deliberately being one-sided" they should be struck off and never ref again.

Refs are scrutinised. No idea how it works in Pro12 but in AP it goes as follows:

1) Teams fill in a report card on the ref
2) Referee assessor at every game, also fills in report card
3) Refs meet up (weekly I think) with assessors and ehad of refs to review match footage of decisions, especially contentious ones.
4) Refs graded according to performance and ranked.
5) Under-performing refs given help to improve and sometimes dropped down a level.

Yes, if ref's are found to be guilty of being 'deliberately one-sided' then they should be struck off (see under penalised). Proving that would be incredibly difficult though. The point I was making is how coaches deal with any concerns they may have with a particular refs performance. They should go through the official established process and, even when that process appears to fail them, they should not speak about it publicly.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 24 Jul 2015, 11:53 am

Munchkin wrote:The nonsense is coming from 'some Welsh posters'. It is some Welsh posters coming up with this conspiracy nonsense. Not some Irish posters. That's the truth of it, Scarlets. I suppose I could say Welsh posters, but then some Welsh posters would complain that not all Welsh posters are conspiracy nuts. As they have done.......

Or you could just cut the nonsense and say Chunky or Lord Dowlais, Or Spidey or Whoever. After all the 'some' is almost more pointed than just being honest and having a dig at your man out right.
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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 11:53 am

Conspiracy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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Post by Sin é Fri 24 Jul 2015, 11:55 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:Conspiracy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Chunky, when was that Andy Fenby trip? And by the way, are Scarlets in their own 22 or is he running in the wrong direction?
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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 11:57 am

Fanster wrote:Lets be honest, Refs are scrutinised, pretty heavily both officially and unofficially.

I hate the whinging mentallity, there are very few cases of refs ruining a game, or deciding the outcome, I can think of 2 occasions only where a ref has hands down ruined a contest or handed one team the win.

If thats the case in thousands of hours of rugby watched then theyre doing a pretty good job.

My gripe is when people aid the footballisation of rugby, where they want to win / progress in their career / get in the media and step on the sport to do so.

With regards to Pro 12 refs, and TMO's, it's similar to the RWC, take the issue of bias out of the equation and the question is gone, If Chunky has issue with Irish refs reffing Irish games then take the Irish refs from Irish games, If Lam has an issue with Welsh refs reffing Welsh teams then take the Welsh refs from Welsh games (and also ban Lam btw).

Ban Lam? Get over yourself. It was a mistake and, like many other coaches have done in the past, was committed in the heat of the moment.
So it's that easy. Just take Irish ref's out of playing Irish games, Welsh ref's out of Welsh games? If only....

Again, you miss the point. The point being that supporters of the Provinces don't accuse the Welsh of a conspiracy against the Irish every time they're unhappy with a ref's decision.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 24 Jul 2015, 12:02 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Fanster wrote:Lets be honest, Refs are scrutinised, pretty heavily both officially and unofficially.

I hate the whinging mentallity, there are very few cases of refs ruining a game, or deciding the outcome, I can think of 2 occasions only where a ref has hands down ruined a contest or handed one team the win.

If thats the case in thousands of hours of rugby watched then theyre doing a pretty good job.

My gripe is when people aid the footballisation of rugby, where they want to win / progress in their career / get in the media and step on the sport to do so.

With regards to Pro 12 refs, and TMO's, it's similar to the RWC, take the issue of bias out of the equation and the question is gone, If Chunky has issue with Irish refs reffing Irish games then take the Irish refs from Irish games, If Lam has an issue with Welsh refs reffing Welsh teams then take the Welsh refs from Welsh games (and also ban Lam btw).

Ban Lam? Get over yourself. It was a mistake and, like many other coaches have done in the past, was committed in the heat of the moment.
So it's that easy. Just take Irish ref's out of playing Irish games, Welsh ref's out of Welsh games? If only....

Again, you miss the point. The point being that supporters of the Provinces don't accuse the Welsh of a conspiracy against the Irish every time they're unhappy with a ref's decision.

I think your missing the point, the bleeding officials of provinces are accusing the Welsh officials of being involved in some conspiracy.
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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 12:03 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

That was exactly my point, some Welsh posters like to mention Marshall Kilgore as TMO at Ravenhill yet have never shown he's made a clear call in favour of Ulster. When some of the poor calls in other leagues are pointed out apparently Pro12 is worse...well just because

Marshall Kilgore regularly cheats us out of any points in Belfast. He did so in 2011 when Graham Knox was refereeing and the Scarlets complained to the Pro12 about the standard of officiating in that match.

He also awarded Ulster a try last season when there was not one shred of evidence that the ball was anywhere near beign grounded over the line. He is a cheat. An Ulster cheat.

But my favourite decision go against us in Ireland is this one by Neil Patterson the Irish, sorry Scottish referee. 30 seconds left on the clock - Scarlets 6 points down, Andy Fenby does an awesome sidestep and outwits the Munster defenderto make it a 2 on 1 for a 7 pointer to win the game- but the Munster player sticks out a leg and trips him. What does the referee do? Red card and penalty try? Nope - penalty Munster - full time.

Aviva Prem fixtures announced today - Pro12 to follow suit? - Page 9 Esq93p

That's BS, plain and simple. Just another of your wild-eyed, foaming at the mouth, glaringly false accusations.

I have seen bad decisions from TMO's from all nations.

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 12:05 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Fanster wrote:Lets be honest, Refs are scrutinised, pretty heavily both officially and unofficially.

I hate the whinging mentallity, there are very few cases of refs ruining a game, or deciding the outcome, I can think of 2 occasions only where a ref has hands down ruined a contest or handed one team the win.

If thats the case in thousands of hours of rugby watched then theyre doing a pretty good job.

My gripe is when people aid the footballisation of rugby, where they want to win / progress in their career / get in the media and step on the sport to do so.

With regards to Pro 12 refs, and TMO's, it's similar to the RWC, take the issue of bias out of the equation and the question is gone, If Chunky has issue with Irish refs reffing Irish games then take the Irish refs from Irish games, If Lam has an issue with Welsh refs reffing Welsh teams then take the Welsh refs from Welsh games (and also ban Lam btw).

Ban Lam? Get over yourself. It was a mistake and, like many other coaches have done in the past, was committed in the heat of the moment.
So it's that easy. Just take Irish ref's out of playing Irish games, Welsh ref's out of Welsh games? If only....

Again, you miss the point. The point being that supporters of the Provinces don't accuse the Welsh of a conspiracy against the Irish every time they're unhappy with a ref's decision.

I think your missing the point, the bleeding officials of provinces are accusing the Welsh officials of being involved in some conspiracy.

Lam accused the Welsh officials of a conspiracy. Have to admit I missed that. Do you have a link?

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 12:09 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Notch, whether there was a knock on or not, and whether it would be allowed for a TMO to give the ruling now or not, does not matter.  The fact is that it was not allowed back then.  Kilgore told the ref that it was not a try, when he was not in a position to do so.  And in doing that he did give Ulster the advantage that he should not have done.  If that try had stood, as it should have, then Ulster would have lost the match.

No7&1/2, the TMO and refs do need to work better in unison.  But it is an evolving thing, and it seems to be improving IMO.  The communication between the two seems to be the issue now, but that has also been an issue with refs and linesmen etc in the past too.

We're arguing about a non Try back in 2011 Very Happy It shouldn't have stood as a Try. It was never a Try. It was knocked on. I get your point though. The TMO was wrong to deny the Try, but not awarding the Try was still the fairest outcome.

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Post by Sin é Fri 24 Jul 2015, 12:11 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

I think your missing the point, the bleeding officials of provinces are accusing the Welsh officials of being involved in some conspiracy.

That just isn't true. Leighton Hodges is just a terrible ref. Owens is excellent and I think the Ben Whitehouse looks as if he will be an excellent ref.

Now, we are just told that all Irish officials & people are corrupt. The accusations are racist in tone.
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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 12:18 pm

Munchkin wrote:

That's BS, plain and simple. Just another of your wild-eyed, foaming at the mouth, glaringly false accusations.

.

It's not. Plain and simple. My team have been on the end of mid bogglingly nonsensical decisions from him on numerous occasions. There is no way a competent, impartial official would have made those decisions.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 12:21 pm

Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Conspiracy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Chunky, when was that Andy Fenby trip? And by the way, are Scarlets in their own 22 or is he running in the wrong direction?

A few seasons back. It was around halfway after a counter attack if I recall correctly. It was odds on to be a scarlets try and a scarlets win. But the referee gave a Munster penalty and therefore a Munster win.

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 12:29 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

That's BS, plain and simple. Just another of your wild-eyed, foaming at the mouth, glaringly false accusations.

.

It's not. Plain and simple. My team have been on the end of mid bogglingly nonsensical decisions from him on numerous occasions. There is no way a competent, impartial official would have made those decisions.

It is BS, Chunky. I don't like the use of TMO's, and I have seen bad calls from TMO's on all sides, including Welsh TMO's, but I wouldn't accuse them of cheating. Some of those decisions may well have been biased, including one I can think of from Kilgore, but if that's true then he's not alone in that.

Provide links of all these incidents with Kilgore with links to view the plays, and the TMO's calls. Many thanks....

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 12:30 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

That's BS, plain and simple. Just another of your wild-eyed, foaming at the mouth, glaringly false accusations.

.

It's not. Plain and simple. My team have been on the end of mid bogglingly nonsensical decisions from him on numerous occasions. There is no way a competent, impartial official would have made those decisions.

It is BS, Chunky. I don't like the use of TMO's, and I have seen bad calls from TMO's on all sides, including Welsh TMO's, but I wouldn't accuse them of cheating. Some of those decisions may well have been biased, including one I can think of from Kilgore, but if that's true then he's not alone in that.

Provide links of all these incidents with Kilgore with links to view the plays, and the TMO's calls. Many thanks....

How am I supposed to privide links? C'mon now don't be silly.


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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 12:35 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

That's BS, plain and simple. Just another of your wild-eyed, foaming at the mouth, glaringly false accusations.

.

It's not. Plain and simple. My team have been on the end of mid bogglingly nonsensical decisions from him on numerous occasions. There is no way a competent, impartial official would have made those decisions.

It is BS, Chunky. I don't like the use of TMO's, and I have seen bad calls from TMO's on all sides, including Welsh TMO's, but I wouldn't accuse them of cheating. Some of those decisions may well have been biased, including one I can think of from Kilgore, but if that's true then he's not alone in that.

Provide links of all these incidents with Kilgore with links to view the plays, and the TMO's calls. Many thanks....

How am I supposed to privide links? C'mon now don't be silly.


It should be easy, Chunky. Many clear instances of Kilgore cheating should be really easy to find. How come you can't provide recorded evidence of such clear examples of cheating, one's that are obviously ingrained into your memory, and ones that will be available to the public? There most be loads if he cheated all the time, Chunky.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Fri 24 Jul 2015, 12:35 pm

I still don't think any ref intentionally goes out to influence the outcome of a game by making purposefully wrong decisions.

All refs and TMOs made bad calls we know that but at the same time so do players through ill-discipline or wrong options etc.

As we have seen in sports like cricket and snooker if there was any hint of match fixing or rigging games through ref decisions surely it would have been rumbled in this day and age.
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Post by Sin é Fri 24 Jul 2015, 12:42 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Conspiracy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Chunky, when was that Andy Fenby trip? And by the way, are Scarlets in their own 22 or is he running in the wrong direction?

A few seasons back. It was around halfway after a counter attack if I recall correctly. It was odds on to be a scarlets try and a scarlets win. But the referee gave a Munster penalty and therefore a Munster win.

The game was in 2010 (5 years ago). There was no way it was a certain try because Fenby was in his own half with plenty of Munster defenders on him. It should have been a penalty to Scarlets.

In the Munster match report, they say that Scarlets were denied a penalty. They didn't say that Munster got it. Scarlets would have still lost if they took the penalty as final result was 23-17.

Its just nuts to claim it should have been a penalty try.


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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 12:42 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Conspiracy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Chunky, when was that Andy Fenby trip? And by the way, are Scarlets in their own 22 or is he running in the wrong direction?

A few seasons back. It was around halfway after a counter attack if I recall correctly. It was odds on to be a scarlets try and a scarlets win. But the referee gave a Munster penalty and therefore a Munster win.

In that case it would never have been a red or a pen try.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 24 Jul 2015, 12:56 pm

Sin é wrote:
Now, we are just told that all Irish officials & people are corrupt. The accusations are racist in tone.


how do you tell tone in a text based communication?
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Post by Sin é Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:04 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Now, we are just told that all Irish officials & people are corrupt. The accusations are racist in tone.


how do you tell tone in a text based communication?

The common content of the text - all Irish are corrupt, cheating etc.

This will explain better how tone is achieved in writing:

http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-tone-in-a-story.html

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Post by munkian Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:10 pm

Sin é wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:

I think your missing the point, the bleeding officials of provinces are accusing the Welsh officials of being involved in some conspiracy.

That just isn't true. Leighton Hodges is just a terrible ref. Owens is excellent and I think the Ben Whitehouse looks as if he will be an excellent ref.

Now, we are just told that all Irish officials & people are corrupt. The accusations are racist in tone.

The Irish aren't a 'race' so its isn't racist...
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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:11 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Now, we are just told that all Irish officials & people are corrupt. The accusations are racist in tone.


how do you tell tone in a text based communication?

It's more difficult than it would be in penning a letter, for example, but not really difficult, depending on the subject. Short reply's on these threads can carry a tone of anger, humour or ridicule.

What Is Tone?
Tone in writing can be defined as attitude or emotion toward the subject and the reader.

A writer's tone is very important, as it conveys a particular message from you as the writer and likewise affects the reader in a particular way. Consequently, it can also affect how the reader receives the message you are communicating. The Written Tone

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:17 pm

munkian wrote:
Sin é wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:

I think your missing the point, the bleeding officials of provinces are accusing the Welsh officials of being involved in some conspiracy.

That just isn't true. Leighton Hodges is just a terrible ref. Owens is excellent and I think the Ben Whitehouse looks as if he will be an excellent ref.

Now, we are just told that all Irish officials & people are corrupt. The accusations are racist in tone.

The Irish aren't a 'race' so its isn't racist...

Semantics at best, but it isn't as clear cut as some think: The Irish Race

I tend to use the word 'xenophobic' in an attempt to avoid an argument over semantics and how 'race' should be defined.

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Post by munkian Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:21 pm

Munchkin wrote:
munkian wrote:
Sin é wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:

I think your missing the point, the bleeding officials of provinces are accusing the Welsh officials of being involved in some conspiracy.

That just isn't true. Leighton Hodges is just a terrible ref. Owens is excellent and I think the Ben Whitehouse looks as if he will be an excellent ref.

Now, we are just told that all Irish officials & people are corrupt. The accusations are racist in tone.

The Irish aren't a 'race' so its isn't racist...

Semantics at best, but it isn't as clear cut as some think: The Irish Race

I tend to use the word 'xenophobic' in an attempt to avoid an argument over semantics and how 'race' should be defined.

Its not semantics, its fact..

And an 'irish race' ? Apart from some parts the far west you are a huge melting pot of English, Welsh, Scot and Scandinavian, Dublin is Viking..


Last edited by munkian on Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:22 pm

munkian wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
munkian wrote:
Sin é wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:

I think your missing the point, the bleeding officials of provinces are accusing the Welsh officials of being involved in some conspiracy.

That just isn't true. Leighton Hodges is just a terrible ref. Owens is excellent and I think the Ben Whitehouse looks as if he will be an excellent ref.

Now, we are just told that all Irish officials & people are corrupt. The accusations are racist in tone.

The Irish aren't a 'race' so its isn't racist...

Semantics at best, but it isn't as clear cut as some think: The Irish Race

I tend to use the word 'xenophobic' in an attempt to avoid an argument over semantics and how 'race' should be defined.

Its not semantics, its fact..

There are opposing views. It's semantics: Cambridge English Dictionary

› [C, + sing/pl verb] a group of people who share the same language, history, characteristics, etc.:
The British are an island race.


Last edited by Munchkin on Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by marty2086 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:23 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

That was exactly my point, some Welsh posters like to mention Marshall Kilgore as TMO at Ravenhill yet have never shown he's made a clear call in favour of Ulster. When some of the poor calls in other leagues are pointed out apparently Pro12 is worse...well just because

Marshall Kilgore regularly cheats us out of any points in Belfast. He did so in 2011 when Graham Knox was refereeing and the Scarlets complained to the Pro12 about the standard of officiating in that match.

He also awarded Ulster a try last season when there was not one shred of evidence that the ball was anywhere near beign grounded over the line. He is a cheat. An Ulster cheat.

But my favourite decision go against us in Ireland is this one by Neil Patterson the Irish, sorry Scottish referee. 30 seconds left on the clock - Scarlets 6 points down, Andy Fenby does an awesome sidestep and outwits the Munster defenderto make it a 2 on 1 for a 7 pointer to win the game- but the Munster player sticks out a leg and trips him. What does the referee do? Red card and penalty try? Nope - penalty Munster - full time.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqaoMFyRIGs

Which one of the three tries was it then? Because they all seem pretty clear cut

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Post by Notch Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:24 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Notch, whether there was a knock on or not, and whether it would be allowed for a TMO to give the ruling now or not, does not matter.  The fact is that it was not allowed back then.  Kilgore told the ref that it was not a try, when he was not in a position to do so.  And in doing that he did give Ulster the advantage that he should not have done.  If that try had stood, as it should have, then Ulster would have lost the match.

Well if it had stood then the narrative after the game would have been about a referee handing the game to the Scarlets because he made a huge mistake in missing the knock-on. It wasn't a legitimate try but mistakes happen and that would have been a try that was mistakenly awarded.

Now if you had a horde of people insisting he was corrupt and missed the knock-on intentionally instead of just trying to make the best decision on the evidence he had you'd understand how these accusations look to everyone else.
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Post by marty2086 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:29 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqP-W55tq1w

The referee asks any reason I can't award the try, the answer yes the knock on. No corruption, he was asked the question and answered it so was well within his rights to say no try in spite of what some say

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Post by munkian Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:33 pm

So if someone from one group of people who share the same language, history, characteristics, etc says something about another group of people who share the same language, history, characteristics, etc that is disagreeable then they are being racist ?
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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:37 pm

The overall point is people being lumped together and slagged off?

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Post by munkian Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:40 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:The overall point is people being lumped together and slagged off?

Like Welsh posters were ?
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Post by rodders Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:41 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

That was exactly my point, some Welsh posters like to mention Marshall Kilgore as TMO at Ravenhill yet have never shown he's made a clear call in favour of Ulster. When some of the poor calls in other leagues are pointed out apparently Pro12 is worse...well just because

Marshall Kilgore regularly cheats us out of any points in Belfast. He did so in 2011 when Graham Knox was refereeing and the Scarlets complained to the Pro12 about the standard of officiating in that match.

He also awarded Ulster a try last season when there was not one shred of evidence that the ball was anywhere near beign grounded over the line. He is a cheat. An Ulster cheat.

But my favourite decision go against us in Ireland is this one by Neil Patterson the Irish, sorry Scottish referee. 30 seconds left on the clock - Scarlets 6 points down, Andy Fenby does an awesome sidestep and outwits the Munster defenderto make it a 2 on 1 for a 7 pointer to win the game- but the Munster player sticks out a leg and trips him. What does the referee do? Red card and penalty try? Nope - penalty Munster - full time.

Aviva Prem fixtures announced today - Pro12 to follow suit? - Page 9 Esq93p

That's BS, plain and simple. Just another of your wild-eyed, foaming at the mouth, glaringly false accusations.

I have seen bad decisions from TMO's from all nations.

in fairness Chunky has a point on MK - its ludicrous that someone with such strong connections to the club is allowed to be TMO. Cheating is a bit strong but can't see how he can be totally impartial, same with Patterson.
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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:43 pm

munkian wrote:So if someone from one group of people who share the same language, history, characteristics, etc says something about another group of people who share the same language, history, characteristics, etc that is disagreeable then they are being racist ?

If one group of people insult a particular nation of people ("The Irish are cheats" for example), then there is an argument that this can be defined as a racist attitude, yes. There are those who claim race is defined by colour, and there are those who argue that although race is defined by colour, it can also be defined by nationality, hence 'semantics'. Personally, I define race by colour alone, and refer to those who insult other nations as xenophobes, but I don't have an issue with those who define race by nationality.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:43 pm

If you like. With a huge group of people it's extremely unlikely they will act as one.

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Post by munkian Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:46 pm

I don't think any TMO or Referee from any union in the pro 12 'cheats'

I think although the league has the difficulty of being made up of so many different unions it could be far more professional.

KO times/days need a serious looking at as do how much each league brings to the table for television rights.

We also need a TMO for EVERY game or none at all - the TMOS should be from a different union to both teams too ideally.

We also need a higher standard of refereeing - far too often you see inexperienced refs with no TMO to back them up being swayed by home crowds.
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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:48 pm

rodders wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

That was exactly my point, some Welsh posters like to mention Marshall Kilgore as TMO at Ravenhill yet have never shown he's made a clear call in favour of Ulster. When some of the poor calls in other leagues are pointed out apparently Pro12 is worse...well just because

Marshall Kilgore regularly cheats us out of any points in Belfast. He did so in 2011 when Graham Knox was refereeing and the Scarlets complained to the Pro12 about the standard of officiating in that match.

He also awarded Ulster a try last season when there was not one shred of evidence that the ball was anywhere near beign grounded over the line. He is a cheat. An Ulster cheat.

But my favourite decision go against us in Ireland is this one by Neil Patterson the Irish, sorry Scottish referee. 30 seconds left on the clock - Scarlets 6 points down, Andy Fenby does an awesome sidestep and outwits the Munster defenderto make it a 2 on 1 for a 7 pointer to win the game- but the Munster player sticks out a leg and trips him. What does the referee do? Red card and penalty try? Nope - penalty Munster - full time.

Aviva Prem fixtures announced today - Pro12 to follow suit? - Page 9 Esq93p

That's BS, plain and simple. Just another of your wild-eyed, foaming at the mouth, glaringly false accusations.

I have seen bad decisions from TMO's from all nations.

in fairness Chunky has a point on MK - its ludicrous that someone with such strong connections to the club is allowed to be TMO. Cheating is a bit strong but can't see how he can be totally impartial, same with Patterson.

I've said myself that I don't like the use of TMO's, and that TMO's may be biased in the decision making (I've certainly questioned some in that regard, including Kilgore), but to accuse any TMO of 'always cheating' is nonsense, and to single out a particular TMO for accusations of cheating may itself be biased.

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Post by Pete330v2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 1:51 pm

marty2086 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqP-W55tq1w

The referee asks any reason I can't award the try, the answer yes the knock on. No corruption, he was asked the question and answered it so was well within his rights to say no try in spite of what some say

+1
To ignore something so glaringly obvious would have been criminal so when asked for a reason not to award the try any TMO would have mentioned that despite the fact that TMOs judgement being officially restricted to the in-goal area. The same thing happened with Tommy Bowe (can't remember the season or who were the opponents) when the referee asked about the grounding. The TMO in that case had spotted a foot in touch and ignored the question about grounding the ball. He was right to do so but I was flippin livid.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:01 pm

Just needs some definitive rules on how long a TMO can or should go back in seconds. Or a rule that the ref can let one thing he thinks is iffy go then has to go back if there's another.

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:01 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:If you like. With a huge group of people it's extremely unlikely they will act as one.

A xenophobe/racist doesn't need to accuse a nation/people of acting as one, or being all the same, but to make a generalisation about about a particular nation/people. When you think about it these types of generalisations are quite common. Not so much directly, but often implied.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:02 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

That was exactly my point, some Welsh posters like to mention Marshall Kilgore as TMO at Ravenhill yet have never shown he's made a clear call in favour of Ulster. When some of the poor calls in other leagues are pointed out apparently Pro12 is worse...well just because

Marshall Kilgore regularly cheats us out of any points in Belfast. He did so in 2011 when Graham Knox was refereeing and the Scarlets complained to the Pro12 about the standard of officiating in that match.

He also awarded Ulster a try last season when there was not one shred of evidence that the ball was anywhere near beign grounded over the line. He is a cheat. An Ulster cheat.

But my favourite decision go against us in Ireland is this one by Neil Patterson the Irish, sorry Scottish referee. 30 seconds left on the clock - Scarlets 6 points down, Andy Fenby does an awesome sidestep and outwits the Munster defenderto make it a 2 on 1 for a 7 pointer to win the game- but the Munster player sticks out a leg and trips him. What does the referee do? Red card and penalty try? Nope - penalty Munster - full time.

Aviva Prem fixtures announced today - Pro12 to follow suit? - Page 9 Esq93p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqaoMFyRIGs

Which one of the three tries was it then? Because they all seem pretty clear cut

Season before that I think.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:10 pm

Munchkin wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:If you like. With a huge group of people it's extremely unlikely they will act as one.

A xenophobe/racist doesn't need to accuse a nation/people of acting as one, or being all the same, but to make a generalisation about about a particular nation/people. When you think about it these types of generalisations are quite common. Not so much directly, but often implied.

I agree with you.

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Post by Pete330v2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:11 pm

He thinks????

Unfathomable

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Post by Pete330v2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:12 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:If you like. With a huge group of people it's extremely unlikely they will act as one.

A xenophobe/racist doesn't need to accuse a nation/people of acting as one, or being all the same, but to make a generalisation about about a particular nation/people. When you think about it these types of generalisations are quite common. Not so much directly, but often implied.

I agree with you.

As do I and so does my wife.

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Post by Sin é Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:15 pm

munkian wrote:
Sin é wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:

I think your missing the point, the bleeding officials of provinces are accusing the Welsh officials of being involved in some conspiracy.

That just isn't true. Leighton Hodges is just a terrible ref. Owens is excellent and I think the Ben Whitehouse looks as if he will be an excellent ref.

Now, we are just told that all Irish officials & people are corrupt. The accusations are racist in tone.

The Irish aren't a 'race' so its isn't racist...

In British law the phrase racial group means "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin".
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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:16 pm

You can't ignore the facts. Ulster got away with numerous yellow and red Cards that were shat out by officials at the time. All in the pro12. All in Belfast.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:17 pm

Sin é wrote:

In British law the phrase racial group means "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin".

Brilliant!! That means I'm mixed race!

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Post by Pete330v2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:18 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:You can't ignore the facts. Ulster got away with numerous yellow and red Cards that were shat out by officials at the time. All in the pro12. All in Belfast.

If only you'd give us the facts instead of pieces of that huge chip on your shoulder then we could choos to ignore them at our leisure !!! Smile

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:20 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:You can't ignore the facts. Ulster got away with numerous yellow and red Cards that were shat out by officials at the time. All in the pro12. All in Belfast.

If only you'd give us the facts instead of pieces of that huge chip on your shoulder then we could choos to ignore them at our leisure !!! Smile

Plenty of facts. All are ignored.

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Post by Sin é Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:21 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

In British law the phrase racial group means "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin".

Brilliant!! That means I'm mixed race!

There is nothing wrong with being of mixed race Chunks!
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