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Aviva Prem fixtures announced today - Pro12 to follow suit?

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LondonTiger
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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 03 Jul 2015, 10:43 am

First topic message reminder :

Aviva Premiership fixtures announced today. Great for the fans to be aware of when and where their teams will play.

Lets see how far the pro12 are behind in releasing theirs.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:22 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:You can't ignore the facts. Ulster got away with numerous yellow and red Cards that were shat out by officials at the time. All in the pro12. All in Belfast.

So going back to that trip; you still think it's a red card offence and a pen try?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:23 pm

Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

In British law the phrase racial group means "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin".

Brilliant!! That means I'm mixed race!

There is nothing wrong with being of mixed race Chunks!

Of course not. I just didn't know I was until now.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:27 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:You can't ignore the facts. Ulster got away with numerous yellow and red Cards that were shat out by officials at the time. All in the pro12. All in Belfast.

So going back to that trip; you still think it's a red card offence and a pen try?

Due to the speed that the atatcker was going I'd say it was highly dangerous so yes. He had a man on his shoulder and would have been 2 on 1, as I've already said. You can't see the field position or angle of attack in that clip. Red card and penalty try.

But it's in Ireland so penalty to Munster.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:30 pm

well there were 2 defenders there at least from the clip you put in so that's 2 on 2. That's never a red card either going by others to receive a yellow, see Haskell recently.

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Post by marty2086 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:33 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

That was exactly my point, some Welsh posters like to mention Marshall Kilgore as TMO at Ravenhill yet have never shown he's made a clear call in favour of Ulster. When some of the poor calls in other leagues are pointed out apparently Pro12 is worse...well just because

Marshall Kilgore regularly cheats us out of any points in Belfast. He did so in 2011 when Graham Knox was refereeing and the Scarlets complained to the Pro12 about the standard of officiating in that match.

He also awarded Ulster a try last season when there was not one shred of evidence that the ball was anywhere near beign grounded over the line. He is a cheat. An Ulster cheat.

But my favourite decision go against us in Ireland is this one by Neil Patterson the Irish, sorry Scottish referee. 30 seconds left on the clock - Scarlets 6 points down, Andy Fenby does an awesome sidestep and outwits the Munster defenderto make it a 2 on 1 for a 7 pointer to win the game- but the Munster player sticks out a leg and trips him. What does the referee do? Red card and penalty try? Nope - penalty Munster - full time.

Aviva Prem fixtures announced today - Pro12 to follow suit? - Page 10 Esq93p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqaoMFyRIGs

Which one of the three tries was it then? Because they all seem pretty clear cut

Season before that I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNDarzxwVS4

So this then? And again what there to dispute?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:35 pm

marty2086 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNDarzxwVS4

So this then? And again what there to dispute?

The last try - Tom Court Knocked it on and didn't ground the ball. Now given Mr Kilgore's previous for ruling on knock on's, you'd think he'd be itching at the chance to regain his form. But no.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:36 pm

If you think that's a clear try, then there really is no hope.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:40 pm

Yet you 'honestly' believe the trip stopped a certain try.

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Post by marty2086 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:42 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNDarzxwVS4

So this then? And again what there to dispute?

The last try - Tom Court Knocked it on and didn't ground the ball. Now given Mr Kilgore's previous for ruling on knock on's, you'd think he'd be itching at the chance to regain his form. But no.

Knocked the ball on even though hes in possesion of it the whole time and didn't ground it even though the balls grounded? You may not see it hit the line but its shown inches short and his momentum takes him further forward, as the question was any reason it can't be awarded there wasn't you may not like the decision but thats what pretty much every TMO would give if you watched more than Ulsters games you'd know this thumbsup

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:51 pm

You're deluded / partially sighted.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:52 pm

Again, you really think that was a certain try without the trip?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 2:57 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Again, you really think that was a certain try without the trip?

It was yes. You can't see the support and attacking angle from that clip. But I like the way this has diverted to a discussion of what the move would have led to, rather than the ludicrous decision made by the officials. Everybody in the ground saw what happenned, apart from it seems the 3 officials.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 3:00 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Again, you really think that was a certain try without the trip?

It was yes. You can't see the support and attacking angle from that clip. But I like the way this has diverted to a discussion of what the move would have led to, rather than the ludicrous decision made by the officials. Everybody in the ground saw what happenned, apart from it seems the 3 officials.

But you just said without the trip it was 2 on 1 but you can see there were another 2 defenders covering. It clearly wasn't a certain try and I don't think it's ever anything more than a yellow. You said it was on half way? No ref is going to give a pen try.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 3:01 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Again, you really think that was a certain try without the trip?

It was yes. You can't see the support and attacking angle from that clip. But I like the way this has diverted to a discussion of what the move would have led to, rather than the ludicrous decision made by the officials. Everybody in the ground saw what happenned, apart from it seems the 3 officials.

But you just said without the trip it was 2 on 1 but you can see there were another 2 defenders covering. It clearly wasn't a certain try and I don't think it's ever anything more than a yellow. You said it was on half way? No ref is going to give a pen try.

Are you saying that a penalty try can only be awarded on a certain area of the pitch?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 24 Jul 2015, 3:03 pm

Paterson would have given a penalty to Munster if the defender had taken out an Uzi and shot Fenby in the face.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 3:05 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Again, you really think that was a certain try without the trip?

It was yes. You can't see the support and attacking angle from that clip. But I like the way this has diverted to a discussion of what the move would have led to, rather than the ludicrous decision made by the officials. Everybody in the ground saw what happenned, apart from it seems the 3 officials.

But you just said without the trip it was 2 on 1 but you can see there were another 2 defenders covering. It clearly wasn't a certain try and I don't think it's ever anything more than a yellow. You said it was on half way? No ref is going to give a pen try.

Are you saying that a penalty try can only be awarded on a certain area of the pitch?

I'm saying it has to be a denial of a certain try so if an incident takes place on half way it makes it much less of a certainty, as in this case.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 3:05 pm

Some of your statements here make the defence of you in the other thread look premature.

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Post by Guest Fri 24 Jul 2015, 3:26 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:You can't ignore the facts. Ulster got away with numerous yellow and red Cards that were shat out by officials at the time. All in the pro12. All in Belfast.

If only you'd give us the facts instead of pieces of that huge chip on your shoulder then we could choos to ignore them at our leisure !!! Smile

Plenty of facts. All are ignored.

Yep, we provide the facts of which you ignore....

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Post by marty2086 Fri 24 Jul 2015, 3:42 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:You're deluded / partially sighted.

I think your post history has proven thats the case for you, the ball starts to slip from his grip but never loses it you say it was never grounded yet it has to hit the ground if hes knocked it on so it can't be both

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Fri 24 Jul 2015, 6:34 pm

Notch wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Notch, whether there was a knock on or not, and whether it would be allowed for a TMO to give the ruling now or not, does not matter.  The fact is that it was not allowed back then.  Kilgore told the ref that it was not a try, when he was not in a position to do so.  And in doing that he did give Ulster the advantage that he should not have done.  If that try had stood, as it should have, then Ulster would have lost the match.

Well if it had stood then the narrative after the game would have been about a referee handing the game to the Scarlets because he made a huge mistake in missing the knock-on. It wasn't a legitimate try but mistakes happen and that would have been a try that was mistakenly awarded.

Now if you had a horde of people insisting he was corrupt and missed the knock-on intentionally instead of just trying to make the best decision on the evidence he had you'd understand how these accusations look to everyone else.

Would there have been a horde of people insisting corruption was involved? After all refs do miss things in games, but they rarely (I would say never, but that leaves it open to freak occurances) make a decision that is not in their jurisdiction to make.

Kilgore maybe have been trying to make the best call possible using the evidence available to him. But in that situation he stepped over the line and made a call he was not able to make. The fact that there was a knock on doesn't matter Kilgore broke the rules.

It would be like someone working as a check out operator firing another one because they saw them swiping from the till. Whilst the their should be fired, its not a checkout operators job to fire them.
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Post by Sin é Fri 24 Jul 2015, 10:57 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Again, you really think that was a certain try without the trip?

It was yes. You can't see the support and attacking angle from that clip. But I like the way this has diverted to a discussion of what the move would have led to, rather than the ludicrous decision made by the officials. Everybody in the ground saw what happenned, apart from it seems the 3 officials.

But you just said without the trip it was 2 on 1 but you can see there were another 2 defenders covering. It clearly wasn't a certain try and I don't think it's ever anything more than a yellow. You said it was on half way? No ref is going to give a pen try.

Are you saying that a penalty try can only be awarded on a certain area of the pitch?

A penalty try can only be awarded if there is a certainty that a try will be scored. That would usually be at least in the 22, not in the other half.

Law 10: Foul Play
10.2 Unfair play
A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise have been scored. A player who prevents a try being scored through foul play must either be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off.

Not likely that a try would have been scored because a) it looks as if it happened in the Scarlett's 22, and there are a heap of Munster defenders on him anyway.

It should have been a penalty.

Incidentally, the Munster match report say Scarlets deserved a penalty kick.
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Post by Guest Sat 25 Jul 2015, 12:28 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Fanster wrote:Marty

That post match interview was disgracefull, and made Lam look like a petulant child. He should've received ban for acting like a football manager and not a respectfull rugby coach!

For every point he raises there is always a counter argument, not to mention an opposing incident during the match that could be argued the other way around.

The thing is when you go against referee's you cannot win, there is no viewing things in true or false, it's the rules or the interpretation, and neither will change for one petty little child!

I don't think that was marty's point. The point was, I think, that we hear so much from a few Welsh posters, across different social media sites, about Irish ref's being corrupt and about the PRO12 being corrupted by the Irish, yet if those same posters looked a little closer to home they would find that Welsh officiating of some games could equally be held up for criticism and scorn by fans of the Provinces. Sometimes they are, but without the pathetic claims of conspiracy. So even though we could equally share the same basis for claims of a conspiracy, we don't.

Coaches have a right to be angry, and they have a right to voice their concerns at any perceived injustice by a ref. How it's done is important. Lam shouldn't have went public with his claim, instead of going through the proper process. Maybe Lam did go through the proper process but without satisfaction. I don't know.
I tend not to criticise ref's but ref's performances should be scrutinised and they should be penalised if found guilty of deliberately being one-sided in a game, or simply below standard in their officiating of a game.

That was exactly my point, some Welsh posters like to mention Marshall Kilgore as TMO at Ravenhill yet have never shown he's made a clear call in favour of Ulster. When some of the poor calls in other leagues are pointed out apparently Pro12 is worse...well just because

Didn't the citing commission and panel pretty much do that, when they banned Roger Wilson for an offense that was cleared via TMO during the game?

Also why so many Irish posters using its 'some Welsh posters' nonsense?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Sat 25 Jul 2015, 7:54 pm

Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Again, you really think that was a certain try without the trip?

It was yes. You can't see the support and attacking angle from that clip. But I like the way this has diverted to a discussion of what the move would have led to, rather than the ludicrous decision made by the officials. Everybody in the ground saw what happenned, apart from it seems the 3 officials.

But you just said without the trip it was 2 on 1 but you can see there were another 2 defenders covering. It clearly wasn't a certain try and I don't think it's ever anything more than a yellow. You said it was on half way? No ref is going to give a pen try.

Are you saying that a penalty try can only be awarded on a certain area of the pitch?

A penalty try can only be awarded if there is a certainty that a try will be scored. That would usually be at least in the 22, not in the other half.

Law 10: Foul Play
10.2 Unfair play
A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise have been scored. A player who prevents a try being scored through foul play must either be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off.

Not likely that a try would have been scored because a) it looks as if it happened in the Scarlett's 22, and there are a heap of Munster defenders on him anyway.

It should have been a penalty.

Incidentally, the Munster match report say Scarlets deserved a penalty kick.

Try not to focus on the sanctions. Try to focus on how shameful the decision was to ignore this:

Aviva Prem fixtures announced today - Pro12 to follow suit? - Page 10 Esq93p

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 25 Jul 2015, 9:11 pm

You made a point about a red card and pen try dont be surprised if people reply saying it should have been a pen and a yellow.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Sat 25 Jul 2015, 9:25 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:You made a point about a red card and pen try dont be surprised if people reply saying it should have been a pen and a yellow.

I'm not surprised in the slightest that the real issue has been glossed over. It's what this forum does.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 25 Jul 2015, 9:27 pm

What issue?

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 25 Jul 2015, 9:29 pm

I have to say I cannot see how that was not a red card purely from that clip. Looks like a deliberate fly hack at the wingers legs. I thought Haskell should have seen red against France though. (Mind this one seems worse to me)

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Post by Cardiff Dave Sat 25 Jul 2015, 9:38 pm

Jerry Flannery "Alive and Kicking"....v France;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jniAZEJn7fU

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 25 Jul 2015, 9:46 pm

Clearly thats Barnes showing his bias against Ireland again? Harsh pen that!

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Post by Cardiff Dave Sat 25 Jul 2015, 10:25 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Clearly thats Barnes showing his bias against Ireland again? Harsh pen that!

Well the game was in Paris, not the AFIFA. Very Happy

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