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Aviva Prem fixtures announced today - Pro12 to follow suit?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Fri 03 Jul 2015, 10:43 am

First topic message reminder :

Aviva Premiership fixtures announced today. Great for the fans to be aware of when and where their teams will play.

Lets see how far the pro12 are behind in releasing theirs.

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Post by Notch Tue 14 Jul 2015, 4:10 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Cheers Notch, I think that's the first time I've seen any Irish poster acknowledge that Irish teams have an advantage.

Umm, I think you my have misread my comment somewhere.

I've disputed your analysis that we have some sort of built-in advantage by pointing out that the league has allowed market forces to determine who broadcasts what and when and nationality really has nothing to do with it. But it sure is a lot more likely we're going to get a preferable timeslot when we are the only team in the market our home broadcaster is aiming for, as opposed to Wales where there are four teams fighting for the same group of people. What you think is sinister favouritism is actually just the league ceding control of the scheduling of games to broadcasters to maximise the amount they are willing to pay.

I would definitely be willing to countenance an arrangement where the league legislates that teams must have a certain number of games in certain timeslots, but would people be willing to accept a corresponding drop in the revenue we can get from broadcasters?

Anyway, my main point was that Saturday games are generally more good than bad for Ulster.


Last edited by Notch on Tue 14 Jul 2015, 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Chunky Norwich Tue 14 Jul 2015, 4:12 pm

Notch wrote:The other big advantage that we have over the Welsh teams is that................

??

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Post by Notch Tue 14 Jul 2015, 4:21 pm

Well yeah, that's life. That's not an advantage in how the league is run or an advantage that comes through any kind of favouritism. It's just easier to get big TV audiences, bigger crowds and preferable timeslots when you are the only pro rugby team in your little sub-market as opposed to having four teams competing over the same market.

It's the same as saying that we have an advantage over the regions as there are no well-established football clubs like Swansea or Cardiff in Ireland, or that the provinces and the regions have an advantage over the Italian sides in that rugby is more established as a popular sport in our countries than in Italy.

No-one was ever pretending everything in Ireland and Wales was the same.
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Post by Kingshu Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:07 pm

I think people are picking on Ulster a bit because we have a decent TV deal that wants Friday slots (I don't believe that RTE or TG4 use Sundays either)

In Contrast the regions have a TV deal that includes a Sunday slot, so one of them has to play in it

Also the the provinces do not have to worry about ground shares, Dragons (who got a lot of Sunday games) share with Newport RFC and Newport County.

For the coming season Newport County have already got all these Saturday games
SAT 15 AUG
SAT 22 AUG
SAT 12 SEP
SAT 3 OCT
SAT 17 OCT
SAT 31 OCT
SAT 21 NOV
SAT 28 NOV
SAT 19 DEC
SAT 2 JAN
SAT 23 JAN
SAT 6 FEB
SAT 13 FEB
SAT 27 FEB
SAT 5 MAR
SAT 19 MAR
SAT 9 APR
SAT 30 APR

That takes away a lot of the potential Saturday games Dragons could have played away if they were not sharing their ground (I hope the rent compensates for this).

Ospreys are similar with Swansea FC. Therefore i'd think that most Sat games shown are Scarlets or Blues. If Ospreys and Dragons both have the a sat free (Newport county and Swansea both playing away) then i'm sure SC4 would pick to have the Ospreys game on the Sat.

The truth is that if you ground share then you are less in control of your fixtures and more likely to get the poorer kickoff times.

I don't think Dragons would have got as many Sunday games if they did not ground share, and I can see this season could be as bad given how many Saturdays they already cannot use.

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Post by munkian Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:16 pm

True, but I doubt we could afford to maintain our own place and pay for players.
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Post by Guest Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:17 pm

So it's unfair that Ulster have so many Friday games because Dragons share their ground with Newport County.

Makes perfect sense........for some....

It's not all down to their broadcasters preference then. Good to know.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:27 pm

Don't the football and rugby teams play home on opposite weekends most of the time? rendering this point as b0ll0cks?

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Post by Notch Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:36 pm

Well the implicit argument is that the league should regulate how many games each team plays on certain days to make it fair, which I have some sympathy with. If you leave it up to the diverse range of broadcasters you're not going to get an even distribution.

However, I am confused when the people who want teams to have an equal number of Friday, Saturday and Sunday games also criticise the league for having low TV revenues. If you are dictating when games will be played to the broadcasters they are surely going to be inclined to pay less than they will for the right to fix the times of games themselves.

This shouldn't be news to anyone; the free market does not result in fair outcomes for all parties. Not in any sphere of life. But you can't intervene to create an even playing field and expect the broadcasters to pay the same amount or more. You have to pick one thing you want and stick with it. Personally I would be willing to take that financial hit when you see teams like Dragons having to play game after game on Sundays. That's really hard on those fans- although to be fair if it's also down to the ground sharing arrangements then there's really not much that can be done.


Last edited by Notch on Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:37 pm

Munchkin wrote:So it's unfair that Ulster have so many Friday games because Dragons share their ground with Newport County.

Makes perfect sense........for some....

It's not all down to their broadcasters preference then. Good to know.

Although the ground-share will make it more awkward for Saturdays, that does not mean that they need to be played on Sundays. Why not play them Friday nights instead?

Also I think people may need to cool down a bit. Nobody is saying anything is Ulster's fault. All that has been said is that Ulster are in a very favourable position, where they know in advance that they will be playing on Friday nights (at home), which makes marketing far easier.
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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:39 pm

Notch wrote:Well the implicit argument is that the league should regulate how many games each team plays on certain days to make it fair, which I have some sympathy with. If you leave it up to the diverse range of broadcasters you're not going to get an even distribution.

However, I am confused when the people who want teams to have an equal number of Friday, Saturday and Sunday games for each team also criticise the league for having low TV revenues. If you are dictating when games will be played to the broadcasters they are surely going to be inclined to pay less than they will for the right to fix the times of games themselves.

This shouldn't be news to anyone; the free market does not result in fair outcomes for all parties. Not in any sphere of life. But you can't intervene to create an even playing field and expect the broadcasters to pay the same amount or more. Personally I would be willing to take that financial hit when you see teams like Dragons having to play game after game on Sundays. That's really hard on those fans- although to be fair if it's also down to the ground sharing arrangements then there's really not much that can be done.

Which is why the league doesn't work. Because it is simply impossible to have an even, fair balance across 5 countries, 4 Unions, 2 time zones, 12 teams and 6 broadcasters.

There will always be heavy advantages.

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Post by Notch Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:40 pm

But that's equally an argument against a British and Irish League.
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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:40 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Munchkin wrote:So it's unfair that Ulster have so many Friday games because Dragons share their ground with Newport County.

Makes perfect sense........for some....

It's not all down to their broadcasters preference then. Good to know.

Although the ground-share will make it more awkward for Saturdays, that does not mean that they need to be played on Sundays.  Why not play them Friday nights instead?

Also I think people may need to cool down a bit.  Nobody is saying anything is Ulster's fault.  All that has been said is that Ulster are in a very favourable position, where they know in advance that they will be playing on Friday nights (at home), which makes marketing far easier.

Less than a third of the Ospreys' home games last season, occured on a weekend where Swansea City FC were also playing.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:40 pm

Notch wrote:But that's equally an argument against a British and Irish League.

Not according to my calculations.

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Post by Notch Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:41 pm

You know how much store I put in your 'calculations'
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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:43 pm

Notch wrote:You know how much store I put in your 'calculations'

Well I'm pretty much sure that there will be fewer countries invovled, fewer time zones and fewer broadcasters for a start.

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Post by Guest Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:46 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Munchkin wrote:So it's unfair that Ulster have so many Friday games because Dragons share their ground with Newport County.

Makes perfect sense........for some....

It's not all down to their broadcasters preference then. Good to know.

Although the ground-share will make it more awkward for Saturdays, that does not mean that they need to be played on Sundays.  Why not play them Friday nights instead?

Also I think people may need to cool down a bit.  Nobody is saying anything is Ulster's fault.  All that has been said is that Ulster are in a very favourable position, where they know in advance that they will be playing on Friday nights (at home), which makes marketing far easier.

It's possible that the broadcasters can't fit in Friday games. It's also possible that Dragons prefer to play Sunday rather than Friday. I don't know. It does appear that with three clubs sharing the grounds Dragons are being pushed to Sunday games, unless Dragons actually elect to play Sunday games, or the broadcasters can't fit in Saturday games.

Nobody is saying it's Ulster's fault, but that doesn't stop some of the Regions supporters from constantly whinging about Ulster playing Friday games. Although they may not be blaming Ulster for playing Friday games, some do blame PRO12 for allowing Ulster to play Friday games. Ridiculous but true.

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Post by Guest Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:52 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Notch wrote:Well the implicit argument is that the league should regulate how many games each team plays on certain days to make it fair, which I have some sympathy with. If you leave it up to the diverse range of broadcasters you're not going to get an even distribution.

However, I am confused when the people who want teams to have an equal number of Friday, Saturday and Sunday games for each team also criticise the league for having low TV revenues. If you are dictating when games will be played to the broadcasters they are surely going to be inclined to pay less than they will for the right to fix the times of games themselves.

This shouldn't be news to anyone; the free market does not result in fair outcomes for all parties. Not in any sphere of life. But you can't intervene to create an even playing field and expect the broadcasters to pay the same amount or more. Personally I would be willing to take that financial hit when you see teams like Dragons having to play game after game on Sundays. That's really hard on those fans- although to be fair if it's also down to the ground sharing arrangements then there's really not much that can be done.

Which is why the league doesn't work. Because it is simply impossible to have an even, fair balance across 5 countries, 4 Unions, 2 time zones, 12 teams and 6 broadcasters.

There will always be heavy advantages.

Must be why the Europeans Champions Cup is such a disaster.....

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:54 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Notch wrote:Well the implicit argument is that the league should regulate how many games each team plays on certain days to make it fair, which I have some sympathy with. If you leave it up to the diverse range of broadcasters you're not going to get an even distribution.

However, I am confused when the people who want teams to have an equal number of Friday, Saturday and Sunday games for each team also criticise the league for having low TV revenues. If you are dictating when games will be played to the broadcasters they are surely going to be inclined to pay less than they will for the right to fix the times of games themselves.

This shouldn't be news to anyone; the free market does not result in fair outcomes for all parties. Not in any sphere of life. But you can't intervene to create an even playing field and expect the broadcasters to pay the same amount or more. Personally I would be willing to take that financial hit when you see teams like Dragons having to play game after game on Sundays. That's really hard on those fans- although to be fair if it's also down to the ground sharing arrangements then there's really not much that can be done.

Which is why the league doesn't work. Because it is simply impossible to have an even, fair balance across 5 countries, 4 Unions, 2 time zones, 12 teams and 6 broadcasters.

There will always be heavy advantages.

Must be why the Europeans Champions Cup is such a disaster.....

Euugh. see above. We are discussing broadcasters and kick off times. 2 are easier to organiser than 6.

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Post by Guest Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:56 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Notch wrote:You know how much store I put in your 'calculations'

Well I'm pretty much sure that there will be fewer countries invovled, fewer time zones and fewer broadcasters for a start.

There wouldn't be fewer Countries involved. England would probably replace Italy. Fewer times Zones? Italy isn't on the other side of the world, for goodness sake. That's hardly an issue.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 12:57 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Notch wrote:You know how much store I put in your 'calculations'

Well I'm pretty much sure that there will be fewer countries invovled, fewer time zones and fewer broadcasters for a start.

There wouldn't be fewer Countries involved. England would probably replace Italy. Fewer times Zones? Italy isn't on the other side of the world, for goodness sake. That's hardly an issue.

And the broadcasters? i.e. - the whole issue?

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Post by Guest Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:01 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Notch wrote:Well the implicit argument is that the league should regulate how many games each team plays on certain days to make it fair, which I have some sympathy with. If you leave it up to the diverse range of broadcasters you're not going to get an even distribution.

However, I am confused when the people who want teams to have an equal number of Friday, Saturday and Sunday games for each team also criticise the league for having low TV revenues. If you are dictating when games will be played to the broadcasters they are surely going to be inclined to pay less than they will for the right to fix the times of games themselves.

This shouldn't be news to anyone; the free market does not result in fair outcomes for all parties. Not in any sphere of life. But you can't intervene to create an even playing field and expect the broadcasters to pay the same amount or more. Personally I would be willing to take that financial hit when you see teams like Dragons having to play game after game on Sundays. That's really hard on those fans- although to be fair if it's also down to the ground sharing arrangements then there's really not much that can be done.

Which is why the league doesn't work. Because it is simply impossible to have an even, fair balance across 5 countries, 4 Unions, 2 time zones, 12 teams and 6 broadcasters.

There will always be heavy advantages.

Must be why the Europeans Champions Cup is such a disaster.....

Euugh. see above. We are discussing broadcasters and kick off times. 2 are easier to organiser than 6.

You think there's only 2 broadcasters involved in the Champions Cup? Very Happy

United Kingdom & Ireland:
TV: BT Sport & Sky Sports,[13]
Radio: BBC Radio, RTÉ & Newstalk[14]
France: beIN Sports, France Télévisions [15][16]
Italy: Sky Italia[17]
Spain: Canal+
Australia: Setanta Sports
Asia Pacific: Setanta Sports
United States: ESPN3
Portugal: SportTV
Canada: Sportsnet World
Romania: Digi Sport
Brazil: ESPN+

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:02 pm

In the UK for live games for goodness sake.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:05 pm

Put it in a hypothetical scenario:

Imagine the Dragons having a choice of who to be televising their league games - S4C or BT? They choose BT to play on Fridays and Saturdays etc

Now imagine Ulster having a choice of who to televise their league games - BBCNI or BT? they choose BBCNI to keep the Friday slot.

This is why some of the aspirations of the Welsh clubs are comletely the opposite of some of the Irish. It doesn't work for us (in my opinion obviously)

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Post by Guest Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:07 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Notch wrote:You know how much store I put in your 'calculations'

Well I'm pretty much sure that there will be fewer countries invovled, fewer time zones and fewer broadcasters for a start.

There wouldn't be fewer Countries involved. England would probably replace Italy. Fewer times Zones? Italy isn't on the other side of the world, for goodness sake. That's hardly an issue.

And the broadcasters? i.e. - the whole issue?

No, the broadcasters is your issue, one of them, and not an issue for the vast majority who enjoy watching PRO12 on a regular basis.

It appears that the Regions broadcasters may not be the reason why Dragons play so many games on a Sunday, so not a broadcasters issue, but an issue with ground sharing. If it was a broadcasters issue then the other three Regions are being very selfish in not sharing the burden of Sunday games.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:10 pm

Munchkin wrote:

No, the broadcasters is your issue, one of them, and not an issue for the vast majority who enjoy watching PRO12 on a regular basis.

It appears that the Regions broadcasters may not be the reason why Dragons play so many games on a Sunday, so not a broadcasters issue, but an issue with ground sharing. If it was a broadcasters issue then the other three Regions are being very selfish in not sharing the burden of Sunday games.

So true. This whole league is a burden.

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Post by Guest Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:13 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:In the UK for live games for goodness sake.

Hold on, Chunky. It's you that is claiming that broadcasting, and the Italian time zone, is a real issue for PRO12, and yet when its pointed out to you that the Champions Cup also have different time zones and multiple broadcasters, you deflect.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:14 pm

If the imaginary B&I league came about you'd have exactly the same broadcasting issues.

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Post by Guest Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:16 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

No, the broadcasters is your issue, one of them, and not an issue for the vast majority who enjoy watching PRO12 on a regular basis.

It appears that the Regions broadcasters may not be the reason why Dragons play so many games on a Sunday, so not a broadcasters issue, but an issue with ground sharing. If it was a broadcasters issue then the other three Regions are being very selfish in not sharing the burden of Sunday games.

So true. This whole league is a burden.

Strange that it's a growing success then.

It's only a burden for those bitter few who want to be burdened. It's a personal choice.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:19 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:In the UK for live games for goodness sake.

Hold on, Chunky. It's you that is claiming that broadcasting, and the Italian time zone, is a real issue for PRO12, and yet when its pointed out to you that the Champions Cup also have different time zones and multiple broadcasters, you deflect.

Fraid not.

-The logistics of all the things the pro12 has to contend with makes it very difficult to administer. The amount of (live) broadcasters is central to the fixture unbalance. There are 6 live broadcasters to satisfy in the UK and Ireland.
-There are not so many parameters in the champions cup. There are 2 live broadcasters to satisfy in the UK and Ireland.

Really not so difficult to understand.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:20 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:If the imaginary B&I league came about you'd have exactly the same broadcasting issues.

Why's that?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:20 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

No, the broadcasters is your issue, one of them, and not an issue for the vast majority who enjoy watching PRO12 on a regular basis.

It appears that the Regions broadcasters may not be the reason why Dragons play so many games on a Sunday, so not a broadcasters issue, but an issue with ground sharing. If it was a broadcasters issue then the other three Regions are being very selfish in not sharing the burden of Sunday games.

So true. This whole league is a burden.

Strange that it's a growing success then.

It's only a burden for those bitter few who want to be burdened. It's a personal choice.

It's only "growing" for those who spin it as growing. Each season it falls further and further behind the English and the French leagues.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:22 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:If the imaginary B&I league came about you'd have exactly the same broadcasting issues.

Why's that?

Because you'd still have teams from different nations wanting their games on free to air.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:24 pm

There's actually 8 different live broadcasters in the competing teams countries, for the pro12. There's not many more teams than that! Ridiculous.

TG4 (2001–2004, 2010–present)
BBC Wales (2001–present)
S4C (2001–present)
BBC Northern Ireland (2001–2004, 2010–present)
BBC Alba (2010–present)
BBC Scotland (2001–04; 2014–present)
Sky Sports (2014–present)
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Chunky Norwich

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:24 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:If the imaginary B&I league came about you'd have exactly the same broadcasting issues.

Why's that?

Because you'd still have teams from different nations wanting their games on free to air.

There would be no free to air games.

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Post by Sin é Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:28 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Put it in a hypothetical scenario:

Imagine the Dragons having a choice of who to be televising their league games - S4C or BT? They choose BT to play on Fridays and Saturdays etc

Now imagine Ulster having a choice of who to televise their league games - BBCNI or BT? they choose BBCNI to keep the Friday slot.

This is why some of the aspirations of the Welsh clubs are comletely the opposite of some of the Irish. It doesn't work for us (in my opinion obviously)

Dragons would not have a choice between BT and S4C. The Regions and Scots shot themselves in the foot (& everyone else) when they accepted BT as their main sponsors. BT got ruled out as a broadcaster.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:31 pm

Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Put it in a hypothetical scenario:

Imagine the Dragons having a choice of who to be televising their league games - S4C or BT? They choose BT to play on Fridays and Saturdays etc

Now imagine Ulster having a choice of who to televise their league games - BBCNI or BT? they choose BBCNI to keep the Friday slot.

This is why some of the aspirations of the Welsh clubs are comletely the opposite of some of the Irish. It doesn't work for us (in my opinion obviously)

Dragons would not have a choice between BT and S4C. The Regions and Scots shot themselves in the foot (& everyone else) when they accepted BT as their main sponsors. BT got ruled out as a broadcaster.


That's why it's "hypothetical".

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:32 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:If the imaginary B&I league came about you'd have exactly the same broadcasting issues.

Why's that?

Because you'd still have teams from different nations wanting their games on free to air.

There would be no free to air games.

You can't say that though can you. Currently there's free to air games because that's what the clubs/regions/unions want. That's not likely to change. hence you'll get similar issues.

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Post by Guest Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:36 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:In the UK for live games for goodness sake.

Hold on, Chunky. It's you that is claiming that broadcasting, and the Italian time zone, is a real issue for PRO12, and yet when its pointed out to you that the Champions Cup also have different time zones and multiple broadcasters, you deflect.

Fraid not.

-The logistics of all the things the pro12 has to contend with makes it very difficult to administer. The amount of (live) broadcasters is central to the fixture unbalance. There are 6 live broadcasters to satisfy in the UK and Ireland.
-There are not so many parameters in the champions cup. There are 2 live broadcasters to satisfy in the UK and Ireland.

Really not so difficult to understand.

You think the logistics of the Champions Cup is any easier?!?

You think the amount of live broadcasts in the Champions Cup is any easier!?!

The amount of live broadcasters in the Champions Cup isn't that much different to the amount of live broadcasters in PRO12, and unlike the PRO12 the UK&Ireland broadcasters are not free to air.

There maybe only two broadcasters to satisfy UK&Ireland, but we're talking about the Champions Cup as a whole! Maybe you shouldn't mention the Italians involvement in the PRO12 at all if that's going to be your argument, and forget about time zones. Your argument makes that irrelevant.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:40 pm

B&I Cup fixtures have been announced today, yet still nothing from the Pro12
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Post by Sin é Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:41 pm

Remind me, what is the problem with Sunday games in Wales?
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Post by Sin é Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:42 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:B&I Cup fixtures have been announced today, yet still nothing from the Pro12

Does the B&I Cup have a broadcaster?
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Post by Guest Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:42 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

No, the broadcasters is your issue, one of them, and not an issue for the vast majority who enjoy watching PRO12 on a regular basis.

It appears that the Regions broadcasters may not be the reason why Dragons play so many games on a Sunday, so not a broadcasters issue, but an issue with ground sharing. If it was a broadcasters issue then the other three Regions are being very selfish in not sharing the burden of Sunday games.

So true. This whole league is a burden.

Strange that it's a growing success then.

It's only a burden for those bitter few who want to be burdened. It's a personal choice.

It's only "growing" for those who spin it as growing. Each season it falls further and further behind the English and the French leagues.

There's no spin involved, unlike the spin you apply to any B&I league. The fact is that PRO12 is a growing success. This is fact, not spin. It's also a fact that PRO12 has less issues than the AP. PRO12 doesn't have clubs massively in debt as the AP does and neither is PRO12 bogged down in a fight over Salary cap. PRO12 teams are competing with AP teams on the European front, and that's despite the fact that PRO12 is still a very young league in comparison.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:43 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:In the UK for live games for goodness sake.

Hold on, Chunky. It's you that is claiming that broadcasting, and the Italian time zone, is a real issue for PRO12, and yet when its pointed out to you that the Champions Cup also have different time zones and multiple broadcasters, you deflect.

Fraid not.

-The logistics of all the things the pro12 has to contend with makes it very difficult to administer. The amount of (live) broadcasters is central to the fixture unbalance. There are 6 live broadcasters to satisfy in the UK and Ireland.
-There are not so many parameters in the champions cup. There are 2 live broadcasters to satisfy in the UK and Ireland.

Really not so difficult to understand.

You think the logistics of the Champions Cup is any easier?!?

You think the amount of live broadcasts in the Champions Cup is any easier!?!

The amount of live broadcasters in the Champions Cup isn't that much different to the amount of live broadcasters in PRO12, and unlike the PRO12 the UK&Ireland broadcasters are not free to air.

There maybe only two broadcasters to satisfy UK&Ireland, but we're talking about the Champions Cup as a whole! Maybe you shouldn't mention the Italians involvement in the PRO12 at all if that's going to be your argument, and forget about time zones. Your argument makes that irrelevant.

You, like many posters on here, just have an entrenched position as regards the pro12, and are unable to see the serious drawbacks of it.

I guess it's because everything is hunkydory at your end.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:46 pm

Munchkin wrote:It's also a fact that PRO12 has less issues than the AP. PRO12 doesn't have clubs massively in debt as the AP does and neither is PRO12 bogged down in a fight over Salary cap. PRO12 teams are competing with AP teams on the European front, and that's despite the fact that PRO12 is still a very young league in comparison.

What a load of sh1t. Munster are heavily in debt. Pro12 teams competing with AP teams? Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Lame stuff.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:46 pm

Sin é wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:B&I Cup fixtures have been announced today, yet still nothing from the Pro12

Does the B&I Cup have a broadcaster?

Really don't know.

But it is a second string tournament, that crosses three boarders and can still get its fixtures out quicker than the Pro12.
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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:46 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Sin é wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:B&I Cup fixtures have been announced today, yet still nothing from the Pro12

Does the B&I Cup have a broadcaster?

Really don't know.

But it is a second string tournament, that crosses three boarders and can still get its fixtures out quicker than the Pro12.

That really is pathetic from he Pro12.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:47 pm

Sin é wrote:Remind me, what is the problem with Sunday games in Wales?

Transport networks are dire (at some points no existent) on Sundays.
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Post by Sin é Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:47 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:In the UK for live games for goodness sake.

Hold on, Chunky. It's you that is claiming that broadcasting, and the Italian time zone, is a real issue for PRO12, and yet when its pointed out to you that the Champions Cup also have different time zones and multiple broadcasters, you deflect.

Fraid not.

-The logistics of all the things the pro12 has to contend with makes it very difficult to administer. The amount of (live) broadcasters is central to the fixture unbalance. There are 6 live broadcasters to satisfy in the UK and Ireland.
-There are not so many parameters in the champions cup. There are 2 live broadcasters to satisfy in the UK and Ireland.

Really not so difficult to understand.

You think the logistics of the Champions Cup is any easier?!?

You think the amount of live broadcasts in the Champions Cup is any easier!?!

The amount of live broadcasters in the Champions Cup isn't that much different to the amount of live broadcasters in PRO12, and unlike the PRO12 the UK&Ireland broadcasters are not free to air.

There maybe only two broadcasters to satisfy UK&Ireland, but we're talking about the Champions Cup as a whole! Maybe you shouldn't mention the Italians involvement in the PRO12 at all if that's going to be your argument, and forget about time zones. Your argument makes that irrelevant.

You, like many posters on here, just have an entrenched position as regards the pro12, and are unable to see the serious drawbacks of it.

I guess it's because everything is hunkydory at your end.

No its not hunkydory at this end. Munster have to suffer an awful lot of Friday games which really doesn't suit because of the difficulty getting to a game. Saturday would be a much better day, but that has been reserved completely for Sky Sport to broadcast.
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Post by Guest Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:50 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:In the UK for live games for goodness sake.

Hold on, Chunky. It's you that is claiming that broadcasting, and the Italian time zone, is a real issue for PRO12, and yet when its pointed out to you that the Champions Cup also have different time zones and multiple broadcasters, you deflect.

Fraid not.

-The logistics of all the things the pro12 has to contend with makes it very difficult to administer. The amount of (live) broadcasters is central to the fixture unbalance. There are 6 live broadcasters to satisfy in the UK and Ireland.
-There are not so many parameters in the champions cup. There are 2 live broadcasters to satisfy in the UK and Ireland.

Really not so difficult to understand.

You think the logistics of the Champions Cup is any easier?!?

You think the amount of live broadcasts in the Champions Cup is any easier!?!

The amount of live broadcasters in the Champions Cup isn't that much different to the amount of live broadcasters in PRO12, and unlike the PRO12 the UK&Ireland broadcasters are not free to air.

There maybe only two broadcasters to satisfy UK&Ireland, but we're talking about the Champions Cup as a whole! Maybe you shouldn't mention the Italians involvement in the PRO12 at all if that's going to be your argument, and forget about time zones. Your argument makes that irrelevant.

You, like many posters on here, just have an entrenched position as regards the pro12, and are unable to see the serious drawbacks of it.

I guess it's because everything is hunkydory at your end.

Now that is nothing less than self projection, Chunky. I am not entrenched with regards my views on PRO12. I see its flaws as much as I see the flaws in any league. It is you that is entrenched in your views, Chunky, and that despite the fact that so many from all sides have disagreed with you.

Chunky, try attacking the points I made rather than simply cast aspersions as a means of deflection.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 15 Jul 2015, 1:50 pm

Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:In the UK for live games for goodness sake.

Hold on, Chunky. It's you that is claiming that broadcasting, and the Italian time zone, is a real issue for PRO12, and yet when its pointed out to you that the Champions Cup also have different time zones and multiple broadcasters, you deflect.

Fraid not.

-The logistics of all the things the pro12 has to contend with makes it very difficult to administer. The amount of (live) broadcasters is central to the fixture unbalance. There are 6 live broadcasters to satisfy in the UK and Ireland.
-There are not so many parameters in the champions cup. There are 2 live broadcasters to satisfy in the UK and Ireland.

Really not so difficult to understand.

You think the logistics of the Champions Cup is any easier?!?

You think the amount of live broadcasts in the Champions Cup is any easier!?!

The amount of live broadcasters in the Champions Cup isn't that much different to the amount of live broadcasters in PRO12, and unlike the PRO12 the UK&Ireland broadcasters are not free to air.

There maybe only two broadcasters to satisfy UK&Ireland, but we're talking about the Champions Cup as a whole! Maybe you shouldn't mention the Italians involvement in the PRO12 at all if that's going to be your argument, and forget about time zones. Your argument makes that irrelevant.

You, like many posters on here, just have an entrenched position as regards the pro12, and are unable to see the serious drawbacks of it.

I guess it's because everything is hunkydory at your end.

No its not hunkydory at this end. Munster have to suffer an awful lot of Friday games which really doesn't suit because of the difficulty getting to a game. Saturday would be a much better day, but that has been reserved completely for Sky Sport to broadcast.

Just the 16 league games on a Saturday for Munster last season. (10 at home).

You poor, poor b@stard.

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