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PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

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PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo: - Page 4 Empty PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

Post by Sin é Thu 06 Aug 2015, 1:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

Welcome Martin Anayi, you are going to have your hands full.

Read more at http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/17587.php#kJPQdWr0F2UKZ8DF.99
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Post by marty2086 Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:05 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Aren't you confusing VAT with tax? I mean, I'm not UK / Republic of Ireland tax expert but I know that my business in the UK cannot reclaim VAT on invoices raised in Ireland, meaning that they automatically cost me 20% more.

You said it yourself, your wrong on so many counts in that statement

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Post by marty2086 Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:06 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:You have claimed that the Irish have used it as a developmental league, yet the 3 bigger Irish provinces have remained competitive and at the top end of the table against Welsh, Italian and Scottish counterparts who allegedly field their strongest team every week. The only Irish player who has been regularly rested was BOD who has now retired, other top Irish stars play as regularly in the league as their Welsh counterparts.

Only recently have the Irish played their best players in the league, the damage has been done over the years.

marty2086 wrote:There are a plethora of reasons the league is less valuable from the state of the Italians, to big names leaving to the AP and Top14 across the board, a disjointed approach to many things, poor officials, Welsh manoeuvring, playing during international windows and many other things

But none of that plethora is ever Irish related with the members on here.

You've never seen the Irish complain about George Clancy or Alain Rolland then

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:07 pm

BBC Wales pays more for pro12 coverage, but the tv revenues aren't split out equally to the clubs. Because the regions know that BBC Wales pay in a higher portion of money, that excess goes back to the Welsh.

Find it strange that some clubs can get criticised for resting player. Surely looking after player's welfare and placing more importance on their health than tv money is a good thing!

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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:15 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
BT did want to sponsor the 4 Provinces at the time. I can understand how some may see that as an attempt at bribery.

How? The Provinces have no say. They just do as their owners dictate.

And BT Sport is on the Ulster jersey.

BT sponsor an Ulster Jersey!!! Well I never  Shocked

For your education: Just4Phibs

Excellent. Thanks. But I'm missing the word bribe.
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Post by LordDowlais Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:15 pm

To answer a few questions, I do not expect us to be at the same level as the french or English in terms of generating money from our league, but we should be further down the road then we currently are. On more than one occasion over the years our league has failed to get a sponsor for various reasons, and without a sponsor we do not get a bargaining point to up our deals. This is why I think we have fallen behind rather than made progress.

As to why we went times without a sponsor, or why Ireland and Scotland do not pay much money for TV rights then that is up for debate.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:15 pm

marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Aren't you confusing VAT with tax? I mean, I'm not UK / Republic of Ireland tax expert but I know that my business in the UK cannot reclaim VAT on invoices raised in Ireland, meaning that they automatically cost me 20% more.

You said it yourself, your wrong on so many counts in that statement

Which counts? Please detail them.
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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:17 pm

Munchkin wrote:

You're citing the €900,000 as an excuse for running down the PRO12, and a chance to snipe at the Irish. The fact is that Your own Regions agreed to it, as did your Welsh PRO12 representatives.

P.s you have little connection with logic. Burning the platform that supports you is not good logic, but you might struggle with that...

Who is burning a platform? You are long on these statements but short on the explanation or detail. Almost empty, in fact.

As for the €900k - please let me know what power Pro Rugby Wales has to refuse that TV deal. Thanks.
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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:20 pm

marty2086 wrote:

Actually the figures you provided said Ireland, it didn't state where those figures come from as BBC NI broadcast most Ulster matches, given that Sky stepped on RTEs toes broadcasting mostly on Saturday evenings that would have weakened the Irish market. Also the Welsh figures state only BBC Wales and no mention of S4C. Since peoples nationality affects everything we do can we factor in it was a Welshman presenting the figures?

The Pro12 is not as valuable as its competitors no one can argue that, by selling the rights free to air rather than an exclusive deal to Sky this also decreases the value of the deal but it has the advantage of attracting more viewers and increasing the leagues visibility which should help in the long term

Northern Ireland is Northern Ireland. Ireland is Ireland. Two different countries. Two different currencies. The fact that the €900,000 comes from an Irish speaking broadcaster should, even for the most hard of understanding, give a clue as to where the money comes from.

I apologise for thinking that you'd be aware of the relationship between BBC Wales and S4C. I should have known better.

How much did Sky offer for exclusive rights?
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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:20 pm

Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:PhilBB, the Irish reckon, that our in fighting and our threats to pull away from the Pro12 is the reason why the league is "damaged". The thing is, they cannot see past their own misdemeanours when it comes to our league falling behind the rest of Europe.

That's a lie. The league isn't damaged in spite of the attempts of the Welsh Regions. In fact the league is thriving as sponsorship increases, as does league attendance.

Any chance of you explaining what you see as these 'damaging attempts'?
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Post by Guest Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:22 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
BT did want to sponsor the 4 Provinces at the time. I can understand how some may see that as an attempt at bribery.

How? The Provinces have no say. They just do as their owners dictate.

And BT Sport is on the Ulster jersey.

BT sponsor an Ulster Jersey!!! Well I never  Shocked

For your education: Just4Phibs

Excellent. Thanks. But I'm missing the word bribe.

Very few would actually come out and say the word 'Bribe'. That sort of talk can cause all sorts of problems. I haven't read the article Sin e has mentioned, but I can understand why some would think that BT offering sponsorship to the Provinces at that particular time does come across as a bribe. It's certainly something that I had considered at the time.

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Post by marty2086 Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:23 pm

Well firstly if a business in Ireland charges you VAT the standard rate 23%, with 13.5% for building supplies, fuel etc and 9% for tourism related activities.

That all depends on the type of business you do, some won't see VAT charged internationally.

Some will see a UK business having to pay VAT on their end which is reclaimable the same with VAT charged on the suppliers end

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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:26 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
BT did want to sponsor the 4 Provinces at the time. I can understand how some may see that as an attempt at bribery.

How? The Provinces have no say. They just do as their owners dictate.

And BT Sport is on the Ulster jersey.

BT sponsor an Ulster Jersey!!! Well I never  Shocked

For your education: Just4Phibs

Excellent. Thanks. But I'm missing the word bribe.

Very few would actually come out and say the word 'Bribe'. That sort of talk can cause all sorts of problems. I haven't read the article Sin e has mentioned, but I can understand why some would think that BT offering sponsorship to the Provinces at that particular time does come across as a bribe. It's certainly something that I had considered at the time.

Interesting mindset. Cheers.
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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:27 pm

marty2086 wrote:Well firstly if a business in Ireland charges you VAT the standard rate 23%, with 13.5% for building supplies, fuel etc and 9% for tourism related activities.

That all depends on the type of business you do, some won't see VAT charged internationally.

Some will see a UK business having to pay VAT on their end which is reclaimable the same with VAT charged on the suppliers end

You've missed the point - I can't claim back the VAT be it our rate of 20% or your rate of 23%.

I just hope that no self billing invoices are raised.
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Post by Sin é Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:28 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:Of the 18 upcoming games announced, 13 of the 18 on Sky involve Irish Provinces

How misleading is that quote ? Who are these Irish teams playing ? Other Irish provinces 18 times a season ? It could just as easy be said that of those 18 games most of them are against Welsh sides, so the teams they are playing against are the big draw. FFS, some people on here just make their own facts up, I am sure of it.

Mainly themselves. Welsh teams are involved in 9 games (as opposed to Irish teams in 13)!
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Post by marty2086 Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:32 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Actually the figures you provided said Ireland, it didn't state where those figures come from as BBC NI broadcast most Ulster matches, given that Sky stepped on RTEs toes broadcasting mostly on Saturday evenings that would have weakened the Irish market. Also the Welsh figures state only BBC Wales and no mention of S4C. Since peoples nationality affects everything we do can we factor in it was a Welshman presenting the figures?

The Pro12 is not as valuable as its competitors no one can argue that, by selling the rights free to air rather than an exclusive deal to Sky this also decreases the value of the deal but it has the advantage of attracting more viewers and increasing the leagues visibility which should help in the long term

Northern Ireland is Northern Ireland. Ireland is Ireland. Two different countries. Two different currencies. The fact that the €900,000 comes from an Irish speaking broadcaster should, even for the most hard of understanding, give a clue as to where the money comes from.

I apologise for thinking that you'd be aware of the relationship between BBC Wales and S4C. I should have known better.

How much did Sky offer for exclusive rights?

No Ireland is an island, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland make up that island

Im aware that S4C is partially funded by the BBC and the license fee as its a public broadcaster but as far as Im aware its not part of BBC Wales

As I wasn't part of the negotiations I don't know how much was offered but exclusive deals tend to be more lucrative

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Post by marty2086 Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:33 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Well firstly if a business in Ireland charges you VAT the standard rate 23%, with 13.5% for building supplies, fuel etc and 9% for tourism related activities.

That all depends on the type of business you do, some won't see VAT charged internationally.

Some will see a UK business having to pay VAT on their end which is reclaimable the same with VAT charged on the suppliers end

You've missed the point - I can't claim back the VAT be it our rate of 20% or your rate of 23%.

I just hope that no self billing invoices are raised.

That's because your not VAT registered but as Pro12 have a special status under Irish law not a problem for them

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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:34 pm

Sin é wrote:[
Of the 18 upcoming games announced, 13 of the 18 on Sky involve Irish Provinces. Of the other 5, 2 involve Glasgow and the other 3 are Welsh & Scottish derbies (which are mostly on FTA as well as Sky).

The Irish Provinces are the big draw for Sky.

No, I'm not. I'm talking about corporate tax which is 12.5% in Republic of Ireland (and which Celtic League Ltd has a sporting tax exemption). There is no VAT on tickets either which might explain why the organisers like to hold the PRO12 Final in the Rep. of Ireland.

And how is the EPRC doing without a mainline sponsor? Heineken are laughing their sides off as they are getting double the bang for their buck now! The Final was a disaster with them giving away tickets. Talking about being clueless.

By the way, the IRFU's income from the EPRC was down this year. I'd imagine something similar has happened to the Welsh Regions, but the EPRC are a great commercial success, aren't they?



Of those 18, how many are broadcast FROM Ireland?

To hold the Pro12 final requires the host club to put in a bid. It has nothing to do with VAT exemption.

I think that the EPRC have already exceeded the ERC income. Sure, two French teams in London was a problem but that's the risk taken.

I didn't realise that the income from EPRC has yet been accounted for but could it have something to do with the lack of success from Irish teams and the realignment of payments away from back loaded knock out appearance money? Of course, the money should go direct to the participants and not via a gerrymandering Union, but that's for another discussion.
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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:35 pm

marty2086 wrote:

That's because your not VAT registered but as Pro12 have a special status under Irish law not a problem for them

Mate, my business is definitely VAT registered. Sorry about that.
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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:36 pm

Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:Of the 18 upcoming games announced, 13 of the 18 on Sky involve Irish Provinces

How misleading is that quote ? Who are these Irish teams playing ? Other Irish provinces 18 times a season ? It could just as easy be said that of those 18 games most of them are against Welsh sides, so the teams they are playing against are the big draw. FFS, some people on here just make their own facts up, I am sure of it.

Mainly themselves. Welsh teams are involved in 9 games (as opposed to Irish teams in 13)!

I've just noticed the first three games to be broadcast. The first two are in Glasgow and Llanelli - are these 'morgues'?
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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:38 pm

Of the 12 games Sky will broadcast this year (2015) only 4 will be from Ireland.

Morgues?
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Post by Guest Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:51 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:PhilBB, the Irish reckon, that our in fighting and our threats to pull away from the Pro12 is the reason why the league is "damaged". The thing is, they cannot see past their own misdemeanours when it comes to our league falling behind the rest of Europe.

That's a lie. The league isn't damaged in spite of the attempts of the Welsh Regions. In fact the league is thriving as sponsorship increases, as does league attendance.

Any chance of you explaining what you see as these 'damaging attempts'?

Well it's not something I've said, although if the attempts were damaging it would be difficult to quantify. The PRO12 has prospered. But for the Welsh Regions fallout with WRU, could PRO12 have prospered more? I don't know.

The attempts I refer too can be found in the Welsh Regions fight with WRU. Without needing to get into the rights and wrongs of it, I do think how the Regions handled it in particular was unwise, and potentially damaging. Possibly damaging as far as ERC revenue is concerned.
I think the Regions jumping into bed with PRL was ill advised, as I do the empty threats of breaking away from PRO12 at the time. On top of that was the potential threat to sponsorship deals. Leaving the agreement between the Regions and the WRU so late could have scuppered certain sponsorship and broadcasting deals. Thankfully SKY and Guinness came on board regardless.

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Post by Sin é Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:53 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Well firstly if a business in Ireland charges you VAT the standard rate 23%, with 13.5% for building supplies, fuel etc and 9% for tourism related activities.

That all depends on the type of business you do, some won't see VAT charged internationally.

Some will see a UK business having to pay VAT on their end which is reclaimable the same with VAT charged on the suppliers end

You've missed the point - I can't claim back the VAT be it our rate of 20% or your rate of 23%.

I just hope that no self billing invoices are raised.

Is the reason you can't reclaim VAT down to the type of business you are in? (there are a couple of exclusions and also, you have to do it online).
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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:53 pm

Sin é wrote:

Is the reason you can't reclaim VAT down to the type of business you are in? (there are a couple of exclusions and also, you have to do it online).

No, it's because the invoice is raised in Ireland. Sorry - the Republic of Ireland.
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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:57 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:PhilBB, the Irish reckon, that our in fighting and our threats to pull away from the Pro12 is the reason why the league is "damaged". The thing is, they cannot see past their own misdemeanours when it comes to our league falling behind the rest of Europe.

That's a lie. The league isn't damaged in spite of the attempts of the Welsh Regions. In fact the league is thriving as sponsorship increases, as does league attendance.

Any chance of you explaining what you see as these 'damaging attempts'?

Well it's not something I've said, although if the attempts were damaging it would be difficult to quantify. The PRO12 has prospered. But for the Welsh Regions fallout with WRU, could PRO12 have prospered more? I don't know.

The attempts I refer too can be found in the Welsh Regions fight with WRU. Without needing to get into the rights and wrongs of it, I do think how the Regions handled it in particular was unwise, and potentially damaging. Possibly damaging as far as ERC revenue is concerned.
I think the Regions jumping into bed with PRL was ill advised, as I do the empty threats of breaking away from PRO12 at the time. On top of that was the potential threat to sponsorship deals. Leaving the agreement between the Regions and the WRU so late could have scuppered certain sponsorship and broadcasting deals. Thankfully SKY and Guinness came on board regardless.

The alternative to jumping into bed with PRL (not that they have ever been out of bed since 1998) was closure. Are you aware of that? Lewis wanted to close them down. That the deal was done so late was solely down to him. PRW had tried to renegotiate the deal for up to two years beforehand. Lewis refused.

Sorry, but your ire is misplaced. It shouldn't be aimed at PRW, who were only protecting their businesses, but solely at Roger Lewis.
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Post by Sin é Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:57 pm

PhilBB wrote:Of the 12 games Sky will broadcast this year (2015) only 4 will be from Ireland.

Morgues?

Yea, they are morgues. All those Irish fans need to see their games though and more likely to take out a Sky subscription to watch their teams.
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Post by Sin é Wed 26 Aug 2015, 3:00 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Is the reason you can't reclaim VAT down to the type of business you are in? (there are a couple of exclusions and also, you have to do it online).

No, it's because the invoice is raised in Ireland. Sorry - the Republic of Ireland.

How come everyone else can claim back VAT then?

This explains how to do it.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/refunds/unregistered-persons-vat-reclaims-faqs.html
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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 3:02 pm

Sin é wrote:Then Sky take the best of the rest (because they prefer not to broadcast from morgues in Scotland & Wales).


So when you wrote that you were, in fact, writing complete nonsense. Yes?
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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 3:03 pm

Sin é wrote:

This explains how to do it.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/refunds/unregistered-persons-vat-reclaims-faqs.html

That's the Irish law.
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Post by marty2086 Wed 26 Aug 2015, 3:04 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Is the reason you can't reclaim VAT down to the type of business you are in? (there are a couple of exclusions and also, you have to do it online).

No, it's because the invoice is raised in Ireland. Sorry - the Republic of Ireland.

Can still be reclaimed whether its RoI VAT or UK VAT I know Ive done both

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Post by Guest Wed 26 Aug 2015, 3:09 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:PhilBB, the Irish reckon, that our in fighting and our threats to pull away from the Pro12 is the reason why the league is "damaged". The thing is, they cannot see past their own misdemeanours when it comes to our league falling behind the rest of Europe.

That's a lie. The league isn't damaged in spite of the attempts of the Welsh Regions. In fact the league is thriving as sponsorship increases, as does league attendance.

Any chance of you explaining what you see as these 'damaging attempts'?

Well it's not something I've said, although if the attempts were damaging it would be difficult to quantify. The PRO12 has prospered. But for the Welsh Regions fallout with WRU, could PRO12 have prospered more? I don't know.

The attempts I refer too can be found in the Welsh Regions fight with WRU. Without needing to get into the rights and wrongs of it, I do think how the Regions handled it in particular was unwise, and potentially damaging. Possibly damaging as far as ERC revenue is concerned.
I think the Regions jumping into bed with PRL was ill advised, as I do the empty threats of breaking away from PRO12 at the time. On top of that was the potential threat to sponsorship deals. Leaving the agreement between the Regions and the WRU so late could have scuppered certain sponsorship and broadcasting deals. Thankfully SKY and Guinness came on board regardless.

The alternative to jumping into bed with PRL (not that they have ever been out of bed since 1998) was closure. Are you aware of that? Lewis wanted to close them down. That the deal was done so late was solely down to him. PRW had tried to renegotiate the deal for up to two years beforehand. Lewis refused.

Sorry, but your ire is misplaced. It shouldn't be aimed at PRW, who were only protecting their businesses, but solely at Roger Lewis.

Being in bed with PRL hasn't really served them well, has it? Does that mean the Regions are half-baked?

There was no alternative to remaining within the PRO12. Your cousins across the bridge would never have accepted the Regions into the fold. That was, and in some cases still is, a delusion.
The threat of the Regions closing down was as fantastical as the threat of the Regions breaking away. It was never going to happen, although it's possible that one could have went to the wall, I suppose.

Your finger pointing at Lewis neither surprises me or convinces me. As much as I'm aware the Regions were holding out on a deal that they wanted. Lewis stood firm on what the WRU wanted and so an impasse. Lewis laid out his terms and refused to meet after those terms weren't agreed to. This was after having already met to thrash out a deal. It was all well publicised in the media at the time.

I'm no Lewis apologist by the way.

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Post by Sin é Wed 26 Aug 2015, 3:27 pm

PhilBB wrote:
To hold the Pro12 final requires the host club to put in a bid. It has nothing to do with VAT exemption.

I think that the EPRC have already exceeded the ERC income. Sure, two French teams in London was a problem but that's the risk taken.

I didn't realise that the income from EPRC has yet been accounted for but could it have something to do with the lack of success from Irish teams and the realignment of payments away from back loaded knock out appearance money? Of course, the money should go direct to the participants and not via a gerrymandering Union, but that's for another discussion.

In fairness to the Board, they staged the last PRO12 final in NI which has UK tax/VAT laws.

A link to back up your claim about EPRC exceeding ERC income please (and the new ERC deal please, not basing it on the old deal).
They would have had more people attending it if they left the game in Italy. French could have driven to the match.

Leinster's merit payment for reaching the semi final of the new cup was 150,000 less than what Munster got for reaching a semi final the previous year.

Interesting that you think underperformers should be rewarded more than the performers. Welsh regions only in it for easy money is it then?
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Post by Sin é Wed 26 Aug 2015, 3:29 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

This explains how to do it.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/refunds/unregistered-persons-vat-reclaims-faqs.html

That's the Irish law.

Its EU law.
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Post by Sin é Wed 26 Aug 2015, 3:30 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:Then Sky take the best of the rest (because they prefer not to broadcast from morgues in Scotland & Wales).


So when you wrote that you were, in fact, writing complete nonsense. Yes?

No, I was winding you up.
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Post by LordDowlais Wed 26 Aug 2015, 4:14 pm

Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:Of the 18 upcoming games announced, 13 of the 18 on Sky involve Irish Provinces

How misleading is that quote ? Who are these Irish teams playing ? Other Irish provinces 18 times a season ? It could just as easy be said that of those 18 games most of them are against Welsh sides, so the teams they are playing against are the big draw. FFS, some people on here just make their own facts up, I am sure of it.

Mainly themselves. Welsh teams are involved in 9 games (as opposed to Irish teams in 13)!

Oh well then, the Irish are the selling point for Sky becuase they are involved in 4 more games. FFS. Come on. I would have thought Sky would have taken viewing figures into account as well. This is where the Welsh trump every one else in our league, as we have bigger TV audiences than the rest of the league.

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Post by marty2086 Wed 26 Aug 2015, 4:24 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:Of the 18 upcoming games announced, 13 of the 18 on Sky involve Irish Provinces

How misleading is that quote ? Who are these Irish teams playing ? Other Irish provinces 18 times a season ? It could just as easy be said that of those 18 games most of them are against Welsh sides, so the teams they are playing against are the big draw. FFS, some people on here just make their own facts up, I am sure of it.

Mainly themselves. Welsh teams are involved in 9 games (as opposed to Irish teams in 13)!

Oh well then, the Irish are the selling point for Sky becuase they are involved in 4 more games. FFS. Come on. I would have thought Sky would have taken viewing figures into account as well. This is where the Welsh trump every one else in our league, as we have bigger TV audiences than the rest of the league.

And what are the viewing figures?

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 26 Aug 2015, 4:27 pm

marty2086 wrote:And what are the viewing figures?

Here we go, why do people always want links or proof put on a plate for them, go and find them yourself on the interweb.

I have taken this off the interweb:-

Last season BBC Wales regularly pulled in audiences for its live games from the then RaboDirect Pro12 league of between 150,000 to 190,000. S4C’s games had audiences of around 80,000 on average.

So times that by the amount of games, then you are not far off 8 million people watching the Pro12 on Welsh TV per season. Which is not to shabby. I cannot be bothered to go looking for the Irish numbers.

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Post by marty2086 Wed 26 Aug 2015, 4:35 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:And what are the viewing figures?

Here we go, why do people always want links or proof put on a plate for them, go and find them yourself on the interweb.

Ive looked and can't find them except for BBC Wales so I take it you havnt seen any either?



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Post by LordDowlais Wed 26 Aug 2015, 4:36 pm

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:And what are the viewing figures?

Here we go, why do people always want links or proof put on a plate for them, go and find them yourself on the interweb.

Ive looked and can't find them except for BBC Wales so I take it you havnt seen any either?



Yes I found the Welsh one's, is it too much to ask for you to find the Irish one's ?

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Post by marty2086 Wed 26 Aug 2015, 4:51 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:And what are the viewing figures?

Here we go, why do people always want links or proof put on a plate for them, go and find them yourself on the interweb.

Ive looked and can't find them except for BBC Wales so I take it you havnt seen any either?



Yes I found the Welsh one's, is it too much to ask for you to find the Irish one's ?

So what your saying is you've seen the Welsh figures and nothing else and assumed their bigger?

And as I've said I've looked and couldn't find them, sorted that now

My maths may be off though

As well supporting a significant number of jobs at BBC Wales, its televised RaboDirect games regularly attract viewing figures of between 150,000 to 200,000.

Saturday's live coverage of Leinster's stirring win over Munster in their keenly awaited RaboDirect Pro12 match at the Aviva Stadium achieved the highest ever TV audience for a rugby match on the Irish language channel with over three quarters of a million viewers.

Data from Nielsen Media Research, the official television audience measure for Ireland, shows that TG4’s coverage reached 765,000 viewers, with a peak audience of 509,000 viewers watching the entire match (average 308,000).

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 26 Aug 2015, 4:54 pm

No I was going by an interview Roger Lewis done before the Ospreys V Scarlets derby a season or two ago, he said that they were able to strike a very lucrative deal with BBC/S4C as Wales had the highest TV audiences in the Pro12.

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Post by marty2086 Wed 26 Aug 2015, 5:00 pm

Well it seems he may have been wrong

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 26 Aug 2015, 5:01 pm

Thats not a bad audience for one match, what are the other no's for the rest of the season. Or is finding them like looking for a needle in a haystack ? I have looked, but I cannot find the numbers for Ireland or Scotland.

BBC Wales gets about 150,000 to 190,000 viewers per game and S4C get 80,000. So lets be pragmatic and call it about 250,000 people watch rugby on Welsh TV channels per week, so lets say there are 36 weeks in a season, then you will get around about 8-9 million people watching rugby on Welsh channels per season. I suppose you could take a three or four weeks off that for European weekends so I would say it would be in between 8-9 million, but it could well be closer to the 8 million if truth be told. Thats not to shabby.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 26 Aug 2015, 5:03 pm

marty2086 wrote:Well it seems he may have been wrong

Why ? None of us can find any evidence to say otherwise can we ?

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Post by Guest Wed 26 Aug 2015, 5:28 pm

Hmmmm...I would like to see hard evidence that the Regions pull in more viewers than the Provinces. Keep in mind that the provinces include Ulsters games on BBCNI.

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Post by marty2086 Wed 26 Aug 2015, 5:53 pm

TG4 has won hundreds of thousands of viewers beyond the gaeilgeoir fraternity with its lively coverage of the provinces in the RaboDirect Pro 12 league.

http://www.independent.ie/life/family/learning/how-students-are-learning-gaeilge-with-rugba-beo-agus-youtube-30041920.html

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Post by The Great Aukster Wed 26 Aug 2015, 5:54 pm

A sport's popularity in attendance at games is usually proportional to the TV audience size. That is probably the closest indicator available.

S4C probably don't poll outside Wales, but because they offer an English commentary alternative they will attract more eyeballs than TG4 or Alba.

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Post by Sin é Wed 26 Aug 2015, 6:43 pm

When you look at the Top 10s for Sky, the only Pro12 games to make them seem to have the involvement of the Irish Provinces (usually around the 50K mark).

What really shows you guys up is that the Munster v Leinster game got 59K viewers in the UK (excludes viewing numbers from ROI). Munster played Cardiff the following week and got 54K.

And just for the record, Munster v Leinster in the HC semi in 2006 on FTA tv got about 1 million viewers.

The Irish Provinces are a major attraction for any broadcaster.

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Post by Stone Motif Wed 26 Aug 2015, 7:00 pm

Sin é wrote:When you look at the Top 10s for Sky, the only Pro12 games to make them seem to have the involvement of the Irish Provinces (usually around the 50K mark).

What really shows you guys up is that the Munster v Leinster game got 59K viewers in the UK (excludes viewing numbers from ROI). Munster played Cardiff the following week and got 54K.

And just for the record, Munster v Leinster in the HC semi in 2006 on FTA tv got about 1 million viewers.

The Irish Provinces are a major attraction for any broadcaster.


Except TG4
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Post by Sin é Wed 26 Aug 2015, 9:02 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Sin é wrote:When you look at the Top 10s for Sky, the only Pro12 games to make them seem to have the involvement of the Irish Provinces (usually around the 50K mark).

What really shows you guys up is that the Munster v Leinster game got 59K viewers in the UK (excludes viewing numbers from ROI). Munster played Cardiff the following week and got 54K.

And just for the record, Munster v Leinster in the HC semi in 2006 on FTA tv got about 1 million viewers.

The Irish Provinces are a major attraction for any broadcaster.


Except TG4

Thats the problem for TG4. Of the 12 rounds, TG4 has exclusive rights to 3 games - Munster v Triviso, Leinster v Connacht & Leinster v Dragons.

In Ireland, we can get BBC/Wales/NI etc., whereas British broadcasters can't get TG4.
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Post by Stone Motif Wed 26 Aug 2015, 9:39 pm

The problem is its a gash league stacked in favour of its O'rganisers
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