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PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

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PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo: - Page 2 Empty PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

Post by Sin é Thu 06 Aug 2015, 1:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

Welcome Martin Anayi, you are going to have your hands full.

Read more at http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/17587.php#kJPQdWr0F2UKZ8DF.99
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Post by marty2086 Tue 25 Aug 2015, 1:26 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Explain how hes failed?

The competing leagues have raced ahead in terms of broadcast income generation.

Raced ahead? They had a head start since the Top 14 has been around for over 100 years and the AP for nearly 30 years.

The Pro12 is entering its 15th year with only 6 teams having competed in every season, the league is still establishing itself as it has almost been in a constant state of change from the formation of the Welsh regions, the introduction of the Italians and the demise of the Borders, Celtic Warriors and Aironi not to mention the Welsh and Italians threatening to walk away on different occasions. That's not an easy thing to sell to a broadcaster.

The figures are also distorted by BT paying over the odds for the AP to make sure that Sky did not get the rights

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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 1:32 pm

marty2086 wrote:

Raced ahead? They had a head start since the Top 14 has been around for over 100 years and the AP for nearly 30 years.

The Pro12 is entering its 15th year with only 6 teams having competed in every season, the league is still establishing itself as it has almost been in a constant state of change from the formation of the Welsh regions, the introduction of the Italians and the demise of the Borders, Celtic Warriors and Aironi not to mention the Welsh and Italians threatening to walk away on different occasions. That's not an easy thing to sell to a broadcaster.

The figures are also distorted by BT paying over the odds for the AP to make sure that Sky did not get the rights

I'm not particularly following the logic that states the other leagues had a head start, because of their history, when negotiating their latest TV deals. I'd say it was more about approach and professionalism, which the English and French raced ahead with when dealing with Feehan and co over the ERC shambles.

Which 6 teams have competed in every season? Or are you making the mistake of thinking that the teams in Llanelli and Cardiff are new? I hope you aren't.

Broadcasters want to have a stable competition, you're right. But the stability comes from the agreement all sign up to for the forthcoming contract so, as long as all signatories were on that page, your point on previous instability is irrelevant. After all, we manage to sell our TV rights in Wales for a significantly larger sum than is managed in the Republic of Ireland.

Broadcasters fighting each other for rights, leading to premiums being paid, is the sign of a good product well sold. That you are trying to use it as a negative suggests that your thinking is wrong from the start.
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Post by marty2086 Tue 25 Aug 2015, 2:02 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Raced ahead? They had a head start since the Top 14 has been around for over 100 years and the AP for nearly 30 years.

The Pro12 is entering its 15th year with only 6 teams having competed in every season, the league is still establishing itself as it has almost been in a constant state of change from the formation of the Welsh regions, the introduction of the Italians and the demise of the Borders, Celtic Warriors and Aironi not to mention the Welsh and Italians threatening to walk away on different occasions. That's not an easy thing to sell to a broadcaster.

The figures are also distorted by BT paying over the odds for the AP to make sure that Sky did not get the rights

I'm not particularly following the logic that states the other leagues had a head start, because of their history, when negotiating their latest TV deals. I'd say it was more about approach and professionalism, which the English and French raced ahead with when dealing with Feehan and co over the ERC shambles.

Which 6 teams have competed in every season? Or are you making the mistake of thinking that the teams in Llanelli and Cardiff are new? I hope you aren't.

Broadcasters want to have a stable competition, you're right. But the stability comes from the agreement all sign up to for the forthcoming contract so, as long as all signatories were on that page, your point on previous instability is irrelevant. After all, we manage to sell our TV rights in Wales for a significantly larger sum than is managed in the Republic of Ireland.

Broadcasters fighting each other for rights, leading to premiums being paid, is the sign of a good product well sold. That you are trying to use it as a negative suggests that your thinking is wrong from the start.

The Top14 and AP and many of their teams are established brands with established fan bases, this is helped by having been around longer and a history of its ability to sell advertising and promote products. The Pro12 is still in its infancy in comparison to the two and coupled with the instability and uncertainty will not sell as well as its competitors and yes it is relevant since when the deal was signed the Welsh dual contracts were still being implemented so the status of top players was in doubt and the Italians and their top stars are all over the place. You talk about the disparity between the sale of the rights between RoI and Wales, in Wales you are talking about the national sport, in Ireland it has to compete with hurling, gaelic football and soccer.

Llanelli and Cardiff are new teams and new brands,

'In 2003 Regional rugby was introduced to Wales and the professional players started to play in a new team and in a new league. The Cardiff Blues team became the standard bearer for the City’s professional team'

That's from Cardiff RFCs own website talking about the Blues.

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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 2:10 pm

marty2086 wrote:
The Top14 and AP and many of their teams are established brands with established fan bases, this is helped by having been around longer and a history of its ability to sell advertising and promote products. The Pro12 is still in its infancy in comparison to the two and coupled with the instability and uncertainty will not sell as well as its competitors and yes it is relevant since when the deal was signed the Welsh dual contracts were still being implemented so the status of top players was in doubt and the Italians and their top stars are all over the place. You talk about the disparity between the sale of the rights between RoI and Wales, in Wales you are talking about the national sport, in Ireland it has to compete with hurling, gaelic football and soccer.

Llanelli and Cardiff are new teams and new brands,

'In 2003 Regional rugby was introduced to Wales and the professional players started to play in a new team and in a new league. The Cardiff Blues team became the standard bearer for the City’s professional team'

That's from Cardiff RFCs own website talking about the Blues.

The longevity of the league / competition is an interesting crutch that you hold for woeful TV contracts. Tell me, is the lack of history of the teams available within the broadcast area the sole reason why the Irish TV contract is worth only €900,000? I'm pretty sure that the good folk of the Republic are aware of the brands Leinster, Connacht and Munster. So why was the fee so pathetically low?

The NDCs in Wales, you're claiming, affected the value of the TV contract? If that is right, why is the BBC Wales deal the largest single market deal within the competition? And, by the way, soccer is the national sport in Wales. More play it, more follow it, more pay to watch it than rugby.

In Cardiff and Llanelli we have new brands, but not new clubs. It's why in 2012 Cardiff Blues were awarded their 100 HEC Appearances trophy and why this is true: http://www.epcrugby.com/matchcentre/fixtures_champions_cup.php?includeref=21924&season=1995-1996&round=elimination and http://www.epcrugby.com/matchcentre/16851.php

The broadcasters are not confused by that. You'll remember that Sky were broadcasting those HEC games.

So, to recap, BBC Wales pays the largest fee per territory and Sky know what they are broadcasting. That leaves the questions of why is the Republic contract so pathetically low and why do the Scottish even bother at all?

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Post by marty2086 Tue 25 Aug 2015, 2:25 pm

Its basic marketing, established and stable brands sell better. The Pro12 in it different guises has bounced around broadcasters and appealed to different markets rather than one large market so has no history of making able to make broadcasters like Sky money from selling ad and subscriptions etc.

Your assessment of how much countries bring in in tv revenue is skewed because it has one broadcaster showing lives games in TG4, Wales and Scotland both have two channels showing their games.

The Encyclopedia of Wales states that the sport of rugby union is "seen by many as a symbol of Welsh identity and an expression of national consciousness".

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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 2:29 pm

marty2086 wrote:Its basic marketing, established and stable brands sell better. The Pro12 in it different guises has bounced around broadcasters and appealed to different markets rather than one large market so has no history of making able to make broadcasters like Sky money from selling ad and subscriptions etc.

Your assessment of how much countries bring in in tv revenue is skewed because it has one broadcaster showing lives games in TG4, Wales and Scotland both have two channels showing their games.

The Encyclopedia of Wales states that the sport of rugby union is "seen by many as a symbol of Welsh identity and an expression of national consciousness".

If established and stable brands sell better, please could you explain to me the disparity in the broadcast income between the Republic of Ireland and Wales.

The coverage by S4C in Wales is paid for by BBC Wales. It just happens to have an obligation through the Welsh language to broadcast on that channel. What happens in Wales doesn't, for example, prevent an English language Irish TV channel from picking up rights and sharing them with TG4.

I've no idea why you're trying to defend a €900,000 year TV deal by quoting the Encyclopedia of Wales to a Welshman living in Wales.
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 2:55 pm

RTE broadcast The League of Ireland on a Friday night. Saturday is out because Sky own it. Sunday is GAA in Ireland and RTE is the main broadcaster. That leaves TG4 left to pick up the pieces.

In the UK, Sky & BT own football, so BBC have little or no sport to broadcast nowadays, so thats probably why you got a decent deal. It will be interesting to see if the new encumbents in Wales can pull off as good deal as Roger Lewis though!
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 3:00 pm

Sin é wrote:RTE broadcast The League of Ireland on a Friday night. Saturday is out because Sky own it. Sunday is GAA in Ireland and RTE is the main broadcaster. That leaves TG4 left to pick up the pieces.

In the UK, Sky & BT own football, so BBC have little or no sport to broadcast nowadays, so thats probably why you got a decent deal. It will be interesting to see if the new encumbents in Wales can pull off as good deal as Roger Lewis though!

Sky don't own Saturday. Look at Judgement Day if you'd like confirmation. Sky want one slot on a Saturday but there are two others going free.

I'm not sure why you are on about the UK when the deal for rugby is what BBC Wales pays for. You know, like BBC NI pays to ensure Ulster always play at home on a Friday night.

I can sense the embarrassment at the domestic Republic TV deal. What confuses me is why it's not admitted to.
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 3:01 pm

PhilBB wrote:
If established and stable brands sell better, please could you explain to me the disparity in the broadcast income between the Republic of Ireland and Wales.

The coverage by S4C in Wales is paid for by BBC Wales. It just happens to have an obligation through the Welsh language to broadcast on that channel. What happens in Wales doesn't, for example, prevent an English language Irish TV channel from picking up rights and sharing them with TG4.

I've no idea why you're trying to defend a €900,000 year TV deal by quoting the Encyclopedia of Wales to a Welshman living in Wales.

Stable brands explain the disparity in sponsorship. The Pro12 have been totally reliant on Irish companies to sponsor it. Magners is an Irish brand sold in the UK, Rabo didn't even exist outside Rep. of Ireland and Guinness is obviously a major brand whose biggest market is Ireland.

There are no Scottish or Welsh brands capable of backing the Pro12. I'd imagine the only reason Rabo sponsored it was probably down to the fact that it was FTA on Irish TV.

All swings and rounadabouts.
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 3:04 pm

Sin é wrote:
Stable brands explain the disparity in sponsorship. The Pro12 have been totally reliant on Irish companies to sponsor it. Magners is an Irish brand sold in the UK, Rabo didn't even exist outside Rep. of Ireland and Guinness is obviously a major brand whose biggest market is Ireland.

There are no Scottish or Welsh brands capable of backing the Pro12. I'd imagine the only reason Rabo sponsored it was probably down to the fact that it was FTA on Irish TV.

All swings and rounadabouts.

Guinness' biggest market is Ireland? There's more of it drunk in Nigeria than even Ireland.

I'm pretty confident that, for example, Admiral would be big enough to sponsor it but that would be Admiral who are based in Cardiff rather than Diageo who are based in London.

Do you know what Rabo paid per annum to sponsor the league? Or Diageo?
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 3:22 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Stable brands explain the disparity in sponsorship. The Pro12 have been totally reliant on Irish companies to sponsor it. Magners is an Irish brand sold in the UK, Rabo didn't even exist outside Rep. of Ireland and Guinness is obviously a major brand whose biggest market is Ireland.

There are no Scottish or Welsh brands capable of backing the Pro12. I'd imagine the only reason Rabo sponsored it was probably down to the fact that it was FTA on Irish TV.

All swings and rounadabouts.

Guinness' biggest market is Ireland? There's more of it drunk in Nigeria than even Ireland.

Nigeria and Ireland are Guiness's 2 main markets. In 2013 Guiness' market shared fell 6% in Ireland. I'd imagine they wouldn't want to lose any more of their market share in Ireland. Time to do a bit more promotion!

I'm pretty confident that, for example, Admiral would be big enough to sponsor it but that would be Admiral who are based in Cardiff rather than Diageo who are based in London.

And why don't they? Its irrelevant where the companies are based - what is important is that they have a presence in all countries and Admiral does not have a presence in Ireland.

Do you know what Rabo paid per annum to sponsor the league? Or Diageo?

I don't know what they pay, but some of the promotions/advertising they have done have been excellent.

Rabo won a European Promotion award for its work promoting the Pro12.
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 3:35 pm

Sin é wrote:Its irrelevant where the companies are based - what is important is that they have a presence in all countries

Have a look at what you've just written and then compare it with your stuff about Ireland attracting the Diageo sponsorship.

See the contradiction?
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 3:37 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:RTE broadcast The League of Ireland on a Friday night. Saturday is out because Sky own it. Sunday is GAA in Ireland and RTE is the main broadcaster. That leaves TG4 left to pick up the pieces.

In the UK, Sky & BT own football, so BBC have little or no sport to broadcast nowadays, so thats probably why you got a decent deal. It will be interesting to see if the new encumbents in Wales can pull off as good deal as Roger Lewis though!

Sky don't own Saturday. Look at Judgement Day if you'd like confirmation. Sky want one slot on a Saturday but there are two others going free.

I'm not sure why you are on about the UK when the deal for rugby is what BBC Wales pays for. You know, like BBC NI pays to ensure Ulster always play at home on a Friday night.

I can sense the embarrassment at the domestic Republic TV deal. What confuses me is why it's not admitted to.

The deal is Sky own Saturday. Munster played one game last season on a Saturday that wasn't on Sky (v Zebre). Obviously Sky made an exception for Judgement Day.

You have no sense of embarrassment about being totally reliant on Rep. of Ireland market to provide sponsorship or the fact that you are at least 18% better off because of the sporting tax exemption in Republic of Ireland because the Pro12 is based here. Rolling Eyes
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 3:40 pm

Sin é wrote:
The deal is Sky own Saturday. Munster played one game last season on a Saturday that wasn't on Sky (v Zebre). Obviously Sky made an exception for Judgement Day.

You have no sense of embarrassment about being totally reliant on Rep. of Ireland market to provide sponsorship or the fact that you are at least 18% better off because of the sporting tax exemption in Republic of Ireland because the Pro12 is based here. Rolling Eyes

Again, I'll point you to Judgement Day to disprove the theory that Sky exclusively own all of Saturday. It's not an exception. It's just that Sky wanted one slot on a Saturday. There are others available.

Please could you explain to me how Welsh clubs are 18% better off because of sporting tax exemption. As we pay VAT here, I'd be interested in your explanation.

And, you're right, I have no sense of embarrassment about a London based company sponsoring the Pr'O12. Until you can tell me how much my club receive from this sponsorship deal, I'll just rely on €900k vs £3.2m to judge the efforts of the Pr'O12 in selling media rights.
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 3:43 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:Its irrelevant where the companies are based - what is important is that they have a presence in all countries

Have a look at what you've just written and then compare it with your stuff about Ireland attracting the Diageo sponsorship.

See the contradiction?

So tell me, do Guinness sponsor much stuff in Wales?
Don't tell me you don't get that a company will only sponsor something out of charity (Magners), or because they have a presence in a particular market (Rabo - a Dutch company with a presence in Ireland)!
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 3:51 pm

Sin é wrote:
So tell me, do Guinness sponsor much stuff in Wales?
Don't tell me you don't get that a company will only sponsor something out of charity (Magners), or because they have a presence in a particular market (Rabo - a Dutch company with a presence in Ireland)!

I'm pointing out that it is not Ireland alone that brought in the Diageo sponsorship
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 3:57 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
The deal is Sky own Saturday. Munster played one game last season on a Saturday that wasn't on Sky (v Zebre). Obviously Sky made an exception for Judgement Day.

You have no sense of embarrassment about being totally reliant on Rep. of Ireland market to provide sponsorship or the fact that you are at least 18% better off because of the sporting tax exemption in Republic of Ireland because the Pro12 is based here. Rolling Eyes

Again, I'll point you to Judgement Day to disprove the theory that Sky exclusively own all of Saturday. It's not an exception. It's just that Sky wanted one slot on a Saturday. There are others available.

Please could you explain to me how Welsh clubs are 18% better off because of sporting tax exemption. As we pay VAT here, I'd be interested in your explanation.

And, you're right, I have no sense of embarrassment about a London based company sponsoring the Pr'O12. Until you can tell me how much my club receive from this sponsorship deal, I'll just rely on €900k vs £3.2m to judge the efforts of the Pr'O12 in selling media rights.

Well, maybe its only in Ireland then that Sky want exclusive Saturdays. We were told that the reason why there were so many games on in Thomond Park/Munster was down to the deal about Sky having exclusive rights on Saturday. Friday night rugby in Limerick seriously affected attendances last season.

Do you have a link to this 900K. What about the Sky deal? How much is that contributing to the pot? Sky claimed the Leinster v Munster game to broadcast which is a very attractive game for them to broadcast, obviously.

Surely the same person was selling the media rights for the Pro12. So fairplay to them if they got that out of the BBC. Obviously Irish broadcasters are a much tougher negotiators than the Beeb Very Happy


Last edited by Sin é on Tue 25 Aug 2015, 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 4:01 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
So tell me, do Guinness sponsor much stuff in Wales?
Don't tell me you don't get that a company will only sponsor something out of charity (Magners), or because they have a presence in a particular market (Rabo - a Dutch company with a presence in Ireland)!

I'm pointing out that it is not Ireland alone that brought in the Diageo sponsorship

Do Guinness sponsor anything else in Wales?
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 4:30 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Please could you explain to me how Welsh clubs are 18% better off because of sporting tax exemption. As we pay VAT here, I'd be interested in your explanation.

I forgot to do this.

In Republic of Ireland, not-for-profit sporting organisations are tax exempt (sporting tax exemption). Celtic Rugby is on the list of organisations that avail of this (along with the B&I Lions, IRB, IRFU). Celtic Rugby do not have to pay any tax on its 20m? income.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 25 Aug 2015, 4:57 pm

Sadly, only Irish companies seem enthusiastic enough to sponsor our league, either that or the suits only look in Ireland for a sponsor. This is what leads me to the fact that to keep the Irish sponsors happy, they need to keep the Irish interest "up" in Ireland, after all rugby is about 6th or 7th most popular sport behind other things. So to keep the Irish interested in the Pro12, to then keep the sponsors happy, they have to do things like keep the finals in Ireland, and keep the Irish teams at the top of the league.

Unfortunately I do not think there are many companies outside of Ireland that would want to sponsor the league as they are not big enough, in Wales as already mentioned we have Admiral, or Go Compare, I don't know perhaps the Brains brewery could do something. Other than that I would suggest one of the big whiskey or oil companies in Scotland, or one of the big car manufactures in Italy. Otherwise the Irish monopoly on our league will never be broken.

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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 5:00 pm

Sin é wrote:

Do you have a link to this 900K. What about the Sky deal? How much is that contributing to the pot? Sky claimed the Leinster v Munster game to broadcast which is a very attractive game for them to broadcast, obviously.

Surely the same person was selling the media rights for the Pro12. So fairplay to them if they got that out of the BBC. Obviously Irish broadcasters are a much tougher negotiators than the Beeb Very Happy

The Sky deal is £5.5m

Each individual broadcast deal was done separately, per broadcast area.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/16/the-breakdown-french-rugby-top14-tv

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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 5:00 pm

Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
So tell me, do Guinness sponsor much stuff in Wales?
Don't tell me you don't get that a company will only sponsor something out of charity (Magners), or because they have a presence in a particular market (Rabo - a Dutch company with a presence in Ireland)!

I'm pointing out that it is not Ireland alone that brought in the Diageo sponsorship

Do Guinness sponsor anything else in Wales?

Lots, I'm sure.
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 5:01 pm

Sin é wrote:
I forgot to do this.

In Republic of Ireland, not-for-profit sporting organisations are tax exempt (sporting tax exemption). Celtic Rugby is on the list of organisations that avail of this (along with the B&I Lions, IRB, IRFU). Celtic Rugby do not have to pay any tax on its 20m? income.


That I am fully aware of. But it wasn't the question I asked.
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 5:02 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Sadly, only Irish companies seem enthusiastic enough to sponsor our league, either that or the suits only look in Ireland for a sponsor. This is what leads me to the fact that to keep the Irish sponsors happy, they need to keep the Irish interest "up" in Ireland, after all rugby is about 6th or 7th most popular sport behind other things. So to keep the Irish interested in the Pro12, to then keep the sponsors happy, they have to do things like keep the finals in Ireland, and keep the Irish teams at the top of the league.

Unfortunately I do not think there are many companies outside of Ireland that would want to sponsor the league as they are not big enough, in Wales as already mentioned we have Admiral, or Go Compare, I don't know perhaps the Brains brewery could do something. Other than that I would suggest one of the big whiskey or oil companies in Scotland, or one of the big car manufactures in Italy. Otherwise the Irish monopoly on our league will never be broken.

The Pr'O12 isn't sponsored by an Irish company, hence it's launch in London this week.
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 6:25 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Sadly, only Irish companies seem enthusiastic enough to sponsor our league, either that or the suits only look in Ireland for a sponsor. This is what leads me to the fact that to keep the Irish sponsors happy, they need to keep the Irish interest "up" in Ireland, after all rugby is about 6th or 7th most popular sport behind other things. So to keep the Irish interested in the Pro12, to then keep the sponsors happy, they have to do things like keep the finals in Ireland, and keep the Irish teams at the top of the league.

Unfortunately I do not think there are many companies outside of Ireland that would want to sponsor the league as they are not big enough, in Wales as already mentioned we have Admiral, or Go Compare, I don't know perhaps the Brains brewery could do something. Other than that I would suggest one of the big whiskey or oil companies in Scotland, or one of the big car manufactures in Italy. Otherwise the Irish monopoly on our league will never be broken.

Celtic Rugby used be based in Edinburgh (when Magners used to sponsor it). It only moved to Ireland about 4 or 5 years ago. I guess it didn't work out too well in Scotland then even when in close in proximity to all those whiskeries etc. The Tournament Director was a Scot, used be with Glasgow Warriors before joining Celtic Rugby Ltd. Probably jobs for the boys.

Thanks for admitting LD, that Ireland carries the lot of you.

PS - your comment made me laugh about the sponsors keeping the Irish teams at the top of the Pro12. What sponsors to be able to do that!

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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 6:29 pm

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Sadly, only Irish companies seem enthusiastic enough to sponsor our league, either that or the suits only look in Ireland for a sponsor. This is what leads me to the fact that to keep the Irish sponsors happy, they need to keep the Irish interest "up" in Ireland, after all rugby is about 6th or 7th most popular sport behind other things. So to keep the Irish interested in the Pro12, to then keep the sponsors happy, they have to do things like keep the finals in Ireland, and keep the Irish teams at the top of the league.

Unfortunately I do not think there are many companies outside of Ireland that would want to sponsor the league as they are not big enough, in Wales as already mentioned we have Admiral, or Go Compare, I don't know perhaps the Brains brewery could do something. Other than that I would suggest one of the big whiskey or oil companies in Scotland, or one of the big car manufactures in Italy. Otherwise the Irish monopoly on our league will never be broken.

The Pr'O12 isn't sponsored by an Irish company, hence it's launch in London this week.

You'd be bitching if it was in Dublin. They do hold the end of season awards dinner in the Guinness Store though in Dublin.
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 6:32 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
I forgot to do this.

In Republic of Ireland, not-for-profit sporting organisations are tax exempt (sporting tax exemption). Celtic Rugby is on the list of organisations that avail of this (along with the B&I Lions, IRB, IRFU). Celtic Rugby do not have to pay any tax on its 20m? income.


That I am fully aware of. But it wasn't the question I asked.

If the income of Celtic Rugby is 10m, it won't have to pay any tax (12.5% in Ireland) which means Celtic Rugby has got more cash to disperse and how Welsh rugby benefits.
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Post by LeinsterFan4life Tue 25 Aug 2015, 6:47 pm

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Sadly, only Irish companies seem enthusiastic enough to sponsor our league, either that or the suits only look in Ireland for a sponsor. This is what leads me to the fact that to keep the Irish sponsors happy, they need to keep the Irish interest "up" in Ireland, after all rugby is about 6th or 7th most popular sport behind other things. So to keep the Irish interested in the Pro12, to then keep the sponsors happy, they have to do things like keep the finals in Ireland, and keep the Irish teams at the top of the league.

Unfortunately I do not think there are many companies outside of Ireland that would want to sponsor the league as they are not big enough, in Wales as already mentioned we have Admiral, or Go Compare, I don't know perhaps the Brains brewery could do something. Other than that I would suggest one of the big whiskey or oil companies in Scotland, or one of the big car manufactures in Italy. Otherwise the Irish monopoly on our league will never be broken.

The Pr'O12 isn't sponsored by an Irish company, hence it's launch in London this week.
Diageo (who own Guinness) is a British company though?

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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 6:54 pm

Sin é wrote:

You'd be bitching if it was in Dublin. They do hold the end of season awards dinner in the Guinness Store though in Dublin.

A pre-season launch isn't worth 'bitching' about. I pointed out, quite simply, that the launch was held in the London Headquarters of the London based sponsors.
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 6:56 pm

Sin é wrote:

If the income of Celtic Rugby is 10m, it won't have to pay any tax (12.5% in Ireland) which means Celtic Rugby has got more cash to disperse and how Welsh rugby benefits.

I'm of the opinion that if we all held on to our own locally generated TV deals then Welsh rugby would benefit from having more cash.
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 6:57 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Diageo (who own Guinness) is a British company though?

Listed in London and New York.
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 7:05 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

You'd be bitching if it was in Dublin. They do hold the end of season awards dinner in the Guinness Store though in Dublin.

A pre-season launch isn't worth 'bitching' about. I pointed out, quite simply, that the launch was held in the London Headquarters of the London based sponsors.

More than likely to facilitate the mainly British based media - BBC & Sky!
Easier for everyone to get to London as well - i.e., I'm sure it would be a bit of a job to get to Cardiff from Italy for a day.
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 7:08 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

If the income of Celtic Rugby is 10m, it won't have to pay any tax (12.5% in Ireland) which means Celtic Rugby has got more cash to disperse and how Welsh rugby benefits.

I'm of the opinion that if we all held on to our own locally generated TV deals then Welsh rugby would benefit from having more cash.

According to the commentary on Rees' article, the Welsh regions keep 70% of their own income (not that I'd believe anything the mouthpiece for the PRL would say in the first place. Do you have a better reference as to what the income is?)

What would make more money for everyone is if BT (who declined to tender by the way) or Sky got exclusive rights to the PRO12.
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 7:15 pm

PhilBB wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Diageo (who own Guinness) is a British company though?

Listed in London and New York.

Its a global company which has a significant interest in Ireland.
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 7:28 pm

Sin é wrote:

More than likely to facilitate the mainly British based media - BBC & Sky!
Easier for everyone to get to London as well - i.e., I'm sure it would be a bit of a job to get to Cardiff from Italy for a day.

It would involve an aeroplane. The same machine needed to get from Ireland to London.
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 7:30 pm

Sin é wrote:

According to the commentary on Rees' article, the Welsh regions keep 70% of their own income (not that I'd believe anything the mouthpiece for the PRL would say in the first place. Do you have a better reference as to what the income is?)

What would make more money for everyone is if BT (who declined to tender by the way) or Sky got exclusive rights to the PRO12.

You'd not believe Rees? Dear God, that would be a huge error. You won't get a better reference than Rees. He is spot on 95% of the time and has the ear of the major decision makers.

You're not one of those folk who see PRL as the root of all evil for finally shaking up the shambles that was ERC, are you?
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 8:17 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

More than likely to facilitate the mainly British based media - BBC & Sky!
Easier for everyone to get to London as well - i.e., I'm sure it would be a bit of a job to get to Cardiff from Italy for a day.

It would involve an aeroplane. The same machine needed to get from Ireland to London.

How many direct flights from dublin, Edinburgh, Milan/Rome are there into Cardiff airport every day?
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 8:31 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

According to the commentary on Rees' article, the Welsh regions keep 70% of their own income (not that I'd believe anything the mouthpiece for the PRL would say in the first place. Do you have a better reference as to what the income is?)

What would make more money for everyone is if BT (who declined to tender by the way) or Sky got exclusive rights to the PRO12.

You'd not believe Rees? Dear God, that would be a huge error. You won't get a better reference than Rees. He is spot on 95% of the time and has the ear of the major decision makers.

You're not one of those folk who see PRL as the root of all evil for finally shaking up the shambles that was ERC, are you?

I'd be pretty sure that he would not have the ear of John Feehan, who is the big wig when it comes to running rugby tournaments.

You have not explained why BT Sport declined to tender for the broadcasting rights for the Pro12?
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 9:17 pm

Sin é wrote:

How many direct flights from dublin, Edinburgh, Milan/Rome are there into Cardiff airport every day?

I've no idea, but I do know that Bristol is only an hour away....
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 9:18 pm

Sin é wrote:
I'd be pretty sure that he would not have the ear of John Feehan, who is the big wig when it comes to running rugby tournaments.

You have not explained why BT Sport declined to tender for the broadcasting rights for the Pro12?

THE big wig? Give over. He was out manoeuvred by PRL and RRW.

I'd imagine that BT Sport realised that the Pr'O12 is an horrific league.
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 9:29 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

How many direct flights from dublin, Edinburgh, Milan/Rome are there into Cardiff airport every day?

I've no idea, but I do know that Bristol is only an hour away....

Right. An hour away. Can you get a direct flight from Edinburgh to either Cardiff or an hour away Bristol?

Lets not forget the PRO12 want the media to also attend the launch, otherwise its pointless having it.

Could you ask your friend Mr Rees why BT Sport declined to tender for the Pro12?
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 9:32 pm

Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

How many direct flights from dublin, Edinburgh, Milan/Rome are there into Cardiff airport every day?

I've no idea, but I do know that Bristol is only an hour away....

Right. An hour away. Can you get a direct flight from Edinburgh to either Cardiff or an hour away Bristol?

Lets not forget the PRO12 want the media to also attend the launch, otherwise its pointless having it.

Could you ask your friend Mr Rees why BT Sport declined to tender for the Pro12?

I've flown from Cardiff to Edinburgh.

Why do you think BT Sport declined to tender?
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 9:33 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
I'd be pretty sure that he would not have the ear of John Feehan, who is the big wig when it comes to running rugby tournaments.

You have not explained why BT Sport declined to tender for the broadcasting rights for the Pro12?

THE big wig? Give over. He was out manoeuvred by PRL and RRW.

I'd imagine that BT Sport realised that the Pr'O12 is an horrific league.

John Feehan runs the 6Ns and the Lions Tour - I'd be pretty sure the PRL have nothing to do with either of those two tournaments.
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 9:35 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

How many direct flights from dublin, Edinburgh, Milan/Rome are there into Cardiff airport every day?

I've no idea, but I do know that Bristol is only an hour away....

Right. An hour away. Can you get a direct flight from Edinburgh to either Cardiff or an hour away Bristol?

Lets not forget the PRO12 want the media to also attend the launch, otherwise its pointless having it.

Could you ask your friend Mr Rees why BT Sport declined to tender for the Pro12?

I've flown from Cardiff to Edinburgh.

Why do you think BT Sport declined to tender?

Look, London is convenient because it has loads of flights every day in and out of several different airports. Dublin would be similar. The rest just don't.

I don't know why they didn't tender for it - they were asked to do so - and that is why I'm asking you because you seem to know a lot?

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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 10:35 pm

.. and it looks like John Feehan negotiated the broadcasting deal in Wales (according to this anyway):

BBC Wales and S4C announce four-year Pro12 Rugby rights deal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2014/pro12-rugby-rights-deal
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 10:38 pm

Sin é wrote:
John Feehan runs the 6Ns and the Lions Tour - I'd be pretty sure the PRL have nothing to do with either of those two tournaments.

And not in context at all.
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Post by PhilBB Tue 25 Aug 2015, 10:41 pm

Sin é wrote:.. and it looks like John Feehan negotiated the broadcasting deal in Wales (according to this anyway):

BBC Wales and S4C announce four-year Pro12 Rugby rights deal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2014/pro12-rugby-rights-deal

Where does it say that?

Meanwhile, we have this to put up with from our (thankfully booted out) Chief Executive: http://gwladrugby.com/?p=1214

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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 10:42 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
John Feehan runs the 6Ns and the Lions Tour - I'd be pretty sure the PRL have nothing to do with either of those two tournaments.

And not in context at all.

and why did you post this then?


THE big wig? Give over. He was out manoeuvred by PRL and RRW.

I'd imagine that BT Sport realised that the Pr'O12 is an horrific league.

Ah, I see this what you think? So can you explain why BT Sport is the jersey sponsor for every British teams that plays in the Pro12 Very Happy
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Post by Sin é Tue 25 Aug 2015, 10:48 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:.. and it looks like John Feehan negotiated the broadcasting deal in Wales (according to this anyway):

BBC Wales and S4C announce four-year Pro12 Rugby rights deal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2014/pro12-rugby-rights-deal

Where does it say that?

Meanwhile, we have this to put up with from our (thankfully booted out) Chief Executive: http://gwladrugby.com/?p=1214


He said that in November 2012. This deal was signed 30 July, 2014. - 2 years after he had spoken about a deal he had made a couple of years earlier!

Read it. Note its a photo of John Feehan with the BBC exec. No sign of Roger Lewis!

oh, and from your link:

“RL went on to say that the latest RRW statement (regarding, amongst others, the TV revenues) was, at a minimum, misleading. and contained confidential information which should not have been disclosed. He stated that it was not the WRU or himself that negotiated TV deals but Celtic League Ltd and ERC Ltd, of which the Regions had been party to.”
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Post by PhilBB Wed 26 Aug 2015, 8:33 am

Sin é wrote:

Ah, I see this what you think? So can you explain why BT Sport is the jersey sponsor for every British teams that plays in the Pro12 Very Happy

I wrote that because of the context of the tournament in which he was out manoeuvred.

BT Sport sponsored PRW and the SRU as a thank you for their support in the setting up of EPRC, thus smashing the Irish mono'poly on the tournament. You know, the one Feehan was out manoeuvred on.

You'll also note that BT Sport broadcast the other competition those teams play in.

Were you genuinely unaware of that? Are you genuinely unaware of the BT Sport sponsorship shambles with the WRU?
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