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PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

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PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo: - Page 17 Empty PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

Post by Sin é Thu 06 Aug 2015, 1:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

Welcome Martin Anayi, you are going to have your hands full.

Read more at http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/17587.php#kJPQdWr0F2UKZ8DF.99
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Post by Guest Mon 07 Sep 2015, 2:12 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Another nice diversion though, this.

You do realise it was LD who brought it up

Sin brought Nigel Owens into it. Which is wholly irrelevant, as we don't have full Union run rugby in Wales. Another reason why the PrO'12 is unworkable.

The Pro12 is doing just fine. In fact it's doing much better than just fine. It's a growing success. You don't do facts very well.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 07 Sep 2015, 2:12 pm

Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:IRFU refs don't have contracts

Who pays them to ref then ?


Sin é wrote:All of them have other jobs

So they are not full time professional referee's then ? Well that explains a lot.

Match day costs - league / tournament they are reffing in.

Why would the WRU pay Nigel Owens (who is much in demand) to ref NZ v SA for example?

So why do certain refs come under certain branches in Ireland then ?

Because that is how rugby is organised in Ireland - there are four branches.
(for the record, Alan Lewis was a Leinster ref, but is from Munster).



And the branches pay them ?

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Post by Sin é Mon 07 Sep 2015, 2:13 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:Another nice diversion though, this.

LD brought referees into the discussion. My point is that Nigel Owens could be biased, but I think like most top refs, he has his ambitions and he won't realise them by being partial in league rugby games.
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Post by Sin é Mon 07 Sep 2015, 2:16 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:IRFU refs don't have contracts

Who pays them to ref then ?


Sin é wrote:All of them have other jobs

So they are not full time professional referee's then ? Well that explains a lot.

Match day costs - league / tournament they are reffing in.

Why would the WRU pay Nigel Owens (who is much in demand) to ref NZ v SA for example?

So why do certain refs come under certain branches in Ireland then ?

Because that is how rugby is organised in Ireland - there are four branches.
(for the record, Alan Lewis was a Leinster ref, but is from Munster).



And the branches pay them ?

No. He would have been accredited to Leinster - having being trained by Leinster.
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Post by LordDowlais Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:28 pm

Sin é wrote:No. He would have been accredited to Leinster - having being trained by Leinster.

What Leinster pay and train ALL the Irish refs ?

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Post by marty2086 Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:35 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:No. He would have been accredited to Leinster - having being trained by Leinster.

What Leinster pay and train ALL the Irish refs ?

Where was that ever said?

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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:40 pm

Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Ah, to be fair to Marty, I've published the wrong figures there.

Now, to return to the point in hand, the IRFU contracts all players.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/contracts-could-cost-irfu-up-to-3m-1.105268
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/irish/2011/1221/288932-irfu/

Crickey, a lot has changed since 1996. For instance, Munster Rugby was still amateur and only being set up. It didn't get a CEO for another 2 or 3 years!

Much changed since the article from rte?
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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:41 pm

Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Now, to return to the point in hand, the IRFU contracts all players.

And the Irish referees,that is a conflict of interest if there ever was one.

IRFU refs don't have contracts. All of them have other jobs. Scarlets fan Nigel Owens is accredited by WRU, but will be paid by World Rugby to ref games in the world cup.





You've claimed this before about payment. Do you have any links for this information? Thanks.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:42 pm

Sin é wrote: They are not on the payroll

Again, I'd love to see the basis of this claim. Thanks.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:44 pm

marty2086 wrote:

That's what happens when you try to hard to find facts to prove your point

Ultimately all players and staff are contracted to the IRFU as they are the overall owners and paymasters of the provinces, this was a fact that the IRFU were happy to point out to Ulster and Connacht over the Payne/Henshaw to Leinster rumours but what your not getting that is if all Irish provincial players are contracted to the IRFU why would there be a need to have central contracts?

Some are contracted to the IRFU and some to the provincial branches of the IRFU

Its nice to see Chunky complaining about transparency when you've been able to use figures from both Leinsters and the IRFUs accounts, short of a complete breakdown of the each cost Im not sure what he expects

No, not at all. All players are contracted to the IRFU and that was my point.

National Contracts are just the top of that grading.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:46 pm

The IRFU spent €330,717 on 'Referee Costs' according to its Annual Report.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:47 pm

'Domestic & Community Rugby'

Referee Development €544,959
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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:48 pm

That €330,717 was just for the professional game, by the way.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:48 pm

The word 'Contracted' is used here:

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/34749.php#.Ve2i6rQirzI
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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:52 pm

http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-whistle-blowers-20140720-3c9xu.html

Steve Walsh earned AUS$150,000 from the ARU.
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Post by LordDowlais Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:56 pm

So as Phil has confirmed the same people who pay the players, pay the refs as well. CONFLICT OF INTEREST right there my old chums.

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Post by marty2086 Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:06 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

That's what happens when you try to hard to find facts to prove your point

Ultimately all players and staff are contracted to the IRFU as they are the overall owners and paymasters of the provinces, this was a fact that the IRFU were happy to point out to Ulster and Connacht over the Payne/Henshaw to Leinster rumours but what your not getting that is if all Irish provincial players are contracted to the IRFU why would there be a need to have central contracts?

Some are contracted to the IRFU and some to the provincial branches of the IRFU

Its nice to see Chunky complaining about transparency when you've been able to use figures from both Leinsters and the IRFUs accounts, short of a complete breakdown of the each cost Im not sure what he expects

No, not at all. All players are contracted to the IRFU and that was my point.

National Contracts are just the top of that grading.

Actually your point was that all Irish players were contracted to the IRFU and you stated elsewhere that Non IQ players were contracted and paid by the provinces, using figures that you have since admitted to be wrong and also used them to try and belittle me

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

And you know better? You didn't even know who held the different contracts in Ireland so maybe its time you stopped pretending your so clued in to try and drive your ignorant ramblings on the subject

All the contracts for Irish qualified players are held by the IRFU and paid by them.

The branch accounts prove this, as do the accounts of the IRFU.

Sorry, Champ, but you need to do your research.

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Post by Guest Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:12 pm

LordDowlais wrote:So as Phil has confirmed the same people who pay the players, pay the refs as well. CONFLICT OF INTEREST right there my old chums.

The WRU recruit and develop referees. Are you suggesting that they don't pay them? How is that any different to Ireland?

Conflict of interest, my @rse.

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Post by Sin é Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:14 pm

PhilBB wrote:http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-whistle-blowers-20140720-3c9xu.html

Steve Walsh earned AUS$150,000 from the ARU.

After the match, Steve Walsh - the only salaried rugby union referee in Australia, earning about $150,000 a year

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-whistle-blowers-20140720-3c9xu.html#ixzz3l49vu8Gy
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Post by LordDowlais Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:14 pm

Munchkin wrote:The WRU recruit and develop referees. Are you suggesting that they don't pay them? How is that any different to Ireland?


Because the WRU do not own the teams. The teams pay the players. Not the WRU. The union pays the refs, the regions pay the players they are two separate entities.

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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:16 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Actually your point was that all Irish players were contracted to the IRFU and you stated elsewhere that Non IQ players were contracted and paid by the provinces, using figures that you have since admitted to be wrong and also used them to try and belittle me

Yep, stand by that.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:17 pm

Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-whistle-blowers-20140720-3c9xu.html

Steve Walsh earned AUS$150,000 from the ARU.

After the match, Steve Walsh - the only salaried rugby union referee in Australia, earning about $150,000 a year

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-whistle-blowers-20140720-3c9xu.html#ixzz3l49vu8Gy

Yes, the others are performance contracts paid per appearance. Still contracted. Did you miss that?
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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:17 pm

Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:So as Phil has confirmed the same people who pay the players, pay the refs as well. CONFLICT OF INTEREST right there my old chums.

The WRU recruit and develop referees. Are you suggesting that they don't pay them? How is that any different to Ireland?

Conflict of interest, my @rse.

Its different in that the players and the referees are not colleagues.
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Post by Sin é Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:18 pm

PhilBB wrote:'Domestic & Community Rugby'

Referee Development €544,959

The Munster Association of Referees run courses.

Community Referees
Munster Rugby, along with IRFU Referee Development staff Dave McHugh and Peter Fitzgibbon, have recently introduced the new Community Referee initiative in the province.


Community refereeing is open to all rugby club members (male & female) aged 18 to 60 years of age. Ideal candidates should be reasonably fit, have a good understanding of the game and be available to referee.


This is an important new category of referee within the Munster Association of Referees (MAR) and the key characteristics of the Community Referee are:


• He/she will only referee age-grade rugby (ring-fenced).

• He/she will only referee locally within their own area thus reducing the requirement to travel.

• He/she will be a member of the MAR.

• He/she will be appointed by MAR.

New competition models are currently being introduced in Munster age-grade rugby to ensure more meaningful games are provided for all participants. It is the responsibility of all clubs and schools to contribute to this process by nominating potential applicants for the Community Referee initiative.

Suitable candidates will then go through the process of education, appointment and trial in order to commence the refereeing of youth matches.


They will become full members of the MAR and will be appointed solely by the MAR. As full MAR members they will have access to buy tickets, will referee in MAR kit, and will come under the MAR governance. They will receive ongoing education, and will be assessed during their trial period.
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Post by Guest Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:20 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The WRU recruit and develop referees. Are you suggesting that they don't pay them? How is that any different to Ireland?


Because the WRU do not own the teams. The teams pay the players. Not the WRU. The union pays the refs, the regions pay the players they are two separate entities.

Ah, so because we have a different, and more successful, model to that of the WRU, you use that to claim the Irish are cheating. I see.

They're not all separate entities, and how separate is separate? The Regions rely on those blazers to keep them afloat, and it's in the interest of the blazers to have successful Regions.

One day you might actually come up with something of value, rather than your tin hatted nonsense, but I doubt it.

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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:21 pm

Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:'Domestic & Community Rugby'

Referee Development €544,959

The Munster Association of Referees run courses.

Community Referees
Munster Rugby, along with IRFU Referee Development staff Dave McHugh and Peter Fitzgibbon, have recently introduced the new Community Referee initiative in the province.


Community refereeing is open to all rugby club members (male & female) aged 18 to 60 years of age. Ideal candidates should be reasonably fit, have a good understanding of the game and be available to referee.


This is an important new category of referee within the Munster Association of Referees (MAR) and the key characteristics of the Community Referee are:


• He/she will only referee age-grade rugby (ring-fenced).

• He/she will only referee locally within their own area thus reducing the requirement to travel.

• He/she will be a member of the MAR.

• He/she will be appointed by MAR.

New competition models are currently being introduced in Munster age-grade rugby to ensure more meaningful games are provided for all participants. It is the responsibility of all clubs and schools to contribute to this process by nominating potential applicants for the Community Referee initiative.

Suitable candidates will then go through the process of education, appointment and trial in order to commence the refereeing of youth matches.


They will become full members of the MAR and will be appointed solely by the MAR. As full MAR members they will have access to buy tickets, will referee in MAR kit, and will come under the MAR governance. They will receive ongoing education, and will be assessed during their trial period.

You know you've just produced a link that proves Fitzgibbon is an IRFU employee, don't you?
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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:21 pm

Munchkin wrote: The Regions rely on those blazers to keep them afloat, and it's in the interest of the blazers to have successful Regions.

Factually untrue, but to be expected.
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Post by marty2086 Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:21 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Actually your point was that all Irish players were contracted to the IRFU and you stated elsewhere that Non IQ players were contracted and paid by the provinces, using figures that you have since admitted to be wrong and also used them to try and belittle me

Yep, stand by that.

Yet you just said

PhilBB wrote: All players are contracted to the IRFU and that was my point

Which one is it?

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Post by Sin é Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:22 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-whistle-blowers-20140720-3c9xu.html

Steve Walsh earned AUS$150,000 from the ARU.

After the match, Steve Walsh - the only salaried rugby union referee in Australia, earning about $150,000 a year

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-whistle-blowers-20140720-3c9xu.html#ixzz3l49vu8Gy

Yes, the others are performance contracts paid per appearance. Still contracted. Did you miss that?

Well if that is the case, the IRFU is subsidising the rest of Celtic Rugby because of the number of referees they have.

And do the WRU pay Nigel Owens to ref SH games for free? Is England sending Ireland Wayne Barnes because they know he will go hard on Ireland?
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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:23 pm

marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Actually your point was that all Irish players were contracted to the IRFU and you stated elsewhere that Non IQ players were contracted and paid by the provinces, using figures that you have since admitted to be wrong and also used them to try and belittle me

Yep, stand by that.

Yet you just said

PhilBB wrote: All players are contracted to the IRFU and that was my point

Which one is it?

Apologies for missing out the word Irish. I thought that was a given.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:24 pm

Sin é wrote:

Well if that is the case, the IRFU is subsidising the rest of Celtic Rugby because of the number of referees they have.

And do the WRU pay Nigel Owens to ref SH games for free? Is England sending Ireland Wayne Barnes because they know he will go hard on Ireland?

I think that you're aware of how World Rugby decides on who referees what game.

Do you have a link for your claim of World Rugby paying the referees? I've asked before, twice, but missed it if you've produced it.

Can you point me to that link, please?
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Post by Sin é Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:27 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:'Domestic & Community Rugby'

Referee Development €544,959

The Munster Association of Referees run courses.

Community Referees
Munster Rugby, along with IRFU Referee Development staff Dave McHugh and Peter Fitzgibbon, have recently introduced the new Community Referee initiative in the province.


Community refereeing is open to all rugby club members (male & female) aged 18 to 60 years of age. Ideal candidates should be reasonably fit, have a good understanding of the game and be available to referee.


This is an important new category of referee within the Munster Association of Referees (MAR) and the key characteristics of the Community Referee are:


• He/she will only referee age-grade rugby (ring-fenced).

• He/she will only referee locally within their own area thus reducing the requirement to travel.

• He/she will be a member of the MAR.

• He/she will be appointed by MAR.

New competition models are currently being introduced in Munster age-grade rugby to ensure more meaningful games are provided for all participants. It is the responsibility of all clubs and schools to contribute to this process by nominating potential applicants for the Community Referee initiative.

Suitable candidates will then go through the process of education, appointment and trial in order to commence the refereeing of youth matches.


They will become full members of the MAR and will be appointed solely by the MAR. As full MAR members they will have access to buy tickets, will referee in MAR kit, and will come under the MAR governance. They will receive ongoing education, and will be assessed during their trial period.

You know you've just produced a link that proves Fitzgibbon is an IRFU employee, don't you?

He works full-time for the Irish Rugby Football Union as referee development officer in the Leisure Rugby department, which deals with casual play and the IRFU's tag rugby events.[3] He is a member of the Munster Association of Referees[4] and also played rugby for Thomond RFC.

Donal Courtney who is the head ref is a retired referee. Its hardly surprising that people who are working referees are employed to also organise and run refeeing - or I suppose the Welsh way would be to have someone who knows nothing about refereeing coaching and organising it!
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Post by Sin é Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:28 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Well if that is the case, the IRFU is subsidising the rest of Celtic Rugby because of the number of referees they have.

And do the WRU pay Nigel Owens to ref SH games for free? Is England sending Ireland Wayne Barnes because they know he will go hard on Ireland?

I think that you're aware of how World Rugby decides on who referees what game.

Do you have a link for your claim of World Rugby paying the referees? I've asked before, twice, but missed it if you've produced it.

Can you point me to that link, please?

I said they were tournament costs. For example, ERC would have paid the Heineken Cup referees and 6Ns would pay 6Ns referees used.
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Post by Guest Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:29 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:So as Phil has confirmed the same people who pay the players, pay the refs as well. CONFLICT OF INTEREST right there my old chums.

The WRU recruit and develop referees. Are you suggesting that they don't pay them? How is that any different to Ireland?

Conflict of interest, my @rse.

Its different in that the players and the referees are not colleagues.


"Players and refs are colleagues"..... Clarify what you mean by colleagues, and tell me if you know they are cheats.

Just a wee snippet from the WRU official site:




Ever since Mr D Herbert officiated the Wales v England game way back in 1882, Welsh referees have always been at the forefront of the international game.

The highly respected Gwynne Walters made his international debut in 1959 and was frequently asked to officiate at the Varsity match. He was followed on the international scene in the mid sixties by referees of the calibre of Meirion Joseph.

Clive Norling took charge of his first international in 1978 and went on to officiate in many high profile matches. Derek Bevan proved consistently to be one of the top referees in the world following his elevation to the international game. He refereed the 1991 World Cup final between England and Australia. Four years later he was the official in the 1995 semi-final between South Africa and France and followed that four years later with an appearance at the same stage when taking centre stage for the Australia v South Africa semi-final.

Bevan held the record for most caps - 44 - when he retired from international rugby in 2000. His record remained intact until Nigel Owens surpassed it in 2013 with his 45th cap when officiating the clash between New Zealand and France.

Leighton Hodges is the most recent Welsh referee to join the elite ranks when he was in charge of two Tests in the 2012/13 season.

Among the 55 Welsh international referees there are eight who played for Wales (Charles Lewis, Horace Lyne, William Phillips, Billy Douglas, Tom Williams, Harry Bowen, Gwyn Nicholls and Tommy Vile); two who acted as treasurer of the Union (Richard Mullock and Williams Wilkins); one who was secretary (Richard Mullock) and five who became President (Horace Lyne, Tommy Vile, Wilf Faull, Vernon Parfitt and Gwilym Treharne). More recently, Ken Rowlands, Clive Norling and Rob Yeman worked as Referee's Manager for the WRU.

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:35 pm

What has that got to do with anything ?

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Post by marty2086 Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:35 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Actually your point was that all Irish players were contracted to the IRFU and you stated elsewhere that Non IQ players were contracted and paid by the provinces, using figures that you have since admitted to be wrong and also used them to try and belittle me

Yep, stand by that.

Yet you just said

PhilBB wrote: All players are contracted to the IRFU and that was my point

Which one is it?

Apologies for missing out the word Irish. I thought that was a given.

Can you do this? Outside of quoting misleading information from branch accounts or guessing what the cost of the Professional Game figures in the IRFU accounts mean?

PhillBB wrote:Again, I'd love to see the basis of this claim. Thanks

Since you have the Leinster accounts to hand there will be a section in there saying how much they pay players why don't you actually share that with us

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Post by Guest Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:39 pm

LordDowlais wrote:What has that got to do with anything ?

Engage your brain, and work it out. Personally it means nothing to me, but I'm sure I could invent a conspiracy theory out of it.

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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:41 pm

Sin é wrote:

I said they were tournament costs. For example, ERC would have paid the Heineken Cup referees and 6Ns would pay 6Ns referees used.

Great, thanks. Any chance of a link to that information? Or a source? Cheers.
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Post by LordDowlais Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:41 pm

Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:What has that got to do with anything ?

Engage your brain, and work it out. Personally it means nothing to me, but I'm sure I could invent a conspiracy theory out of it.

So you are just posting crap to avoid the point I was making ?

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Post by Guest Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:42 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:What has that got to do with anything ?

Engage your brain, and work it out. Personally it means nothing to me, but I'm sure I could invent a conspiracy theory out of it.

So you are just posting crap to avoid the point I was making ?

Well, yes, I was posting nonsense to mirror the nonsense you spout, not avoid it.

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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:42 pm

Munchkin wrote:

"Players and refs are colleagues"..... Clarify what you mean by colleagues, and tell me if you know they are cheats.


Colleagues = work for the same company
Cheats = point missed. Clancy doesn't referee Ireland games for a reason, not that he would cheat. Same should go for a league structure if you're interested in it being worthwhile.

Of course, you only have to view the IRFU's opinion of its Branches to know that it will never happen under the present system.
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Post by Chunky Norwich Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:46 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:What has that got to do with anything ?

Engage your brain, and work it out. Personally it means nothing to me, but I'm sure I could invent a conspiracy theory out of it.

So you are just posting crap to avoid the point I was making ?

That is the standard defence mechanism by the Irish on here.

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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:46 pm

marty2086 wrote:

Since you have the Leinster accounts to hand there will be a section in there saying how much they pay players why don't you actually share that with us

Under 'training' it notes 'Player Costs €2,766.342
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Post by Sin é Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:48 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Well if that is the case, the IRFU is subsidising the rest of Celtic Rugby because of the number of referees they have.

And do the WRU pay Nigel Owens to ref SH games for free? Is England sending Ireland Wayne Barnes because they know he will go hard on Ireland?

I think that you're aware of how World Rugby decides on who referees what game.

Do you have a link for your claim of World Rugby paying the referees? I've asked before, twice, but missed it if you've produced it.

Can you point me to that link, please?

I said the tournament paid them (i.e., 6Ns, Quad Nations, ERC, Celtic Rugby), not World Rugby.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:48 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:What has that got to do with anything ?

Engage your brain, and work it out. Personally it means nothing to me, but I'm sure I could invent a conspiracy theory out of it.

So you are just posting crap to avoid the point I was making ?

That is the standard defence mechanism by the Irish on here.

Claiming that the IRFU do not employ the refs and then producing a link which shows Fitzgibbon as an IRFU employee was a think of message board beauty.
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Post by Guest Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:48 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

"Players and refs are colleagues"..... Clarify what you mean by colleagues, and tell me if you know they are cheats.


Colleagues = work for the same company
Cheats = point missed. Clancy doesn't referee Ireland games for a reason, not that he would cheat. Same should go for a league structure if you're interested in it being worthwhile.

Of course, you only have to view the IRFU's opinion of its Branches to know that it will never happen under the present system.

They work for the same company.... The Welsh officials are recruited and developed by WRU, the same WRU that pays the Regions...

So then, you're saying Clancy doesn't cheat in internationals, but that he cheats in league games? Any evidence?.

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Post by PhilBB Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:52 pm

Sin é wrote:

I said the tournament paid them (i.e., 6Ns, Quad Nations, ERC, Celtic Rugby), not World Rugby.

I know you did. What you haven't produced is a source for that claim or any evidence to support it, despite me asking more than four times.

Funny that.
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Post by Sin é Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:53 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

I said they were tournament costs. For example, ERC would have paid the Heineken Cup referees and 6Ns would pay 6Ns referees used.

Great, thanks. Any chance of a link to that information? Or a source? Cheers.

If you do a bit of googling you will see it explained how referees are paid (mostly explaining to amateur players how to claim ref costs/claim expenses).

Use your cop-on! Why are Refs were Specsaver branded gear? What happens to that money?


Last edited by Sin é on Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Chunky Norwich Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:53 pm

PhilBB wrote:

Claiming that the IRFU do not employ the refs and then producing a link which shows Fitzgibbon as an IRFU employee was a think of message board beauty.

I would genuinely love to know whether it's conscious misinterpretation or misinformed ignorance.

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Post by Guest Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:54 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

I said the tournament paid them (i.e., 6Ns, Quad Nations, ERC, Celtic Rugby), not World Rugby.

I know you did. What you haven't produced is a source for that claim or any evidence to support it, despite me asking more than four times.

Funny that.

Where's you evidence to prove him wrong?

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