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PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

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PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo: - Page 20 Empty PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

Post by Sin é Thu 06 Aug 2015, 1:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

Welcome Martin Anayi, you are going to have your hands full.

Read more at http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/17587.php#kJPQdWr0F2UKZ8DF.99
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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:18 am

Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:

If the Pro12 wants to grow then it will have to actually invest money to improve the product it supplies.

The PrO'12 can't grow any further in terms of being a credible competition. It's topped out as it is. So much so that the sponsor money was so low it wasn't even disclosed. It's a lame duck and is getting lamer while the rival leagues get stronger.

And you still don't get that if you continually talk it down, it going to get even less attractive for sponsors from Wales.

I'll take it as a compliment that my voice is seen as so important.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:21 am

Sin é wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
If the Pro12 wants to grow then it will have to actually invest money to improve the product it supplies.

And where is the money to invest to come from?

There is nothing but non-stop bitching about everything they try to do (such as hold the final in a stadium that will generate some financial return from the sales of tickets).

The Welsh bitch if they don't get all the tv money generated in UK etc.

That is a bit of a chicken and egg situation really.

P.S. the Irish bitch about any suggestions that come from non-Irish sources etc
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Post by marty2086 Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:22 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Its not infrequent as Walsh regularly reffed the NZ franchises in Super Rugby, JP Doyle (An Irishman in case Im accused of omitting anything) has reffed the Irish provinces in Europe, Joubert does so when SA teams play the Australian and NZ teams but again its unique to the Pro12

SANZAR responded after poor performances of officials and dropped anumber of referees from their panel. JP Doyle is not employed by the same people the Irish provinces are.

Why can't you see that, and admit that the PrO'12 situation is not an ideal situation? Delusion or deliberate diversion Marty?

Im pretty sure if you go back through this thread I have said exactly that maybe you'll pick up on your own hypocrisy while your at it

The argument put forward today is that the ref for the Blues Zebre match could create the perception of a conflict of interest even if it doesn't exist because he once worked for the Blues. JP Doyle is an Irishman who reffed Irish provinces and once was a ref for the IRFU how can you say the two are different?

Maybe if you held everyone to the same standards you'd get somewhere

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:23 am

Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

edit: I would also imagine it is difficult to get referees to ref games in Wales because the fans give them such a hard time.

I take it, you missed how the referee was treated in Glasgow's game at the weekend?

What has that got to do with how little respect the Welsh fans have for the referees and it is catching elsewhere.

Ah that is why there was booing of the ref in the ref in the Aviva when Wales were playing Ireland (when there was an injury which he didn't stop for), it was the Welsh teaching the Irish to disrespect the ref??
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Post by Sin é Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:25 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:The Welsh bitch if they don't get all the tv money generated in UK etc.

That's another generalising statement, I have never bitched about having all the UK tele money. I have pointed out that we generate the most tele money when I get told that we do not contribute to the league, bat that is about it.

Again, why are our Irish members ALWAYS on the defence, you really need to start realising the problems with our league.

I'm sick of hearing about the BBC Wales TV money and how they are subsidising the league. In the meantime, Welsh fans never miss an opportunity to knock the league and they then seem to think that sponsors will drop out of somewhere. The penny does not seem to drop to these Welsh fans that if you keep talking the league down, they are also talking the income of the league down.

It is really frustrating that Welsh fans cannot get their head around the financial implications for the league by their continuing bitching and moaning about the league.
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Post by marty2086 Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:27 am

Super Rugby 2015 Week 1
Crusaders v Rebels Ref Nick Briant NZRU

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515011
http://www.allblacks.com/Player/Referees/2013

Week 2 2015
Chiefs v Brumbies Ref Steve Walsh ARU
http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515021

Stormers v Blues Ref Craig Joubert SARU
http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515026

Highlanders v Reds Glen Jackson NZRU
http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515031

And who owns the NZ franchises? Would that be the NZRU?

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Post by SecretFly Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:28 am

Quit bitching, bitches!

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:28 am

marty2086 wrote:Super Rugby 2015 Week 1
Crusaders v Rebels Ref Nick Briant NZRU

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515011
http://www.allblacks.com/Player/Referees/2013

Week 2 2015
Chiefs v Brumbies Ref Steve Walsh ARU
http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515021

Stormers v Blues Ref Craig Joubert SARU
http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515026

Highlanders v Reds Glen Jackson NZRU
http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515031

And who owns the NZ franchises? Would that be the NZRU?

I do not care about those lot, they probably have the same issues as us, I CARE about OUR league.

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Post by Sin é Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:30 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

edit: I would also imagine it is difficult to get referees to ref games in Wales because the fans give them such a hard time.

I take it, you missed how the referee was treated in Glasgow's game at the weekend?

What has that got to do with how little respect the Welsh fans have for the referees and it is catching elsewhere.

Ah that is why there was booing of the ref in the ref in the Aviva when Wales were playing Ireland (when there was an injury which he didn't stop for), it was the Welsh teaching the Irish to disrespect the ref??

Crickey, a player out cold and the ref is ignoring it. That is not a good example to compare to what the ref's have to put up with when reffing in Wales.
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:31 am

Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:The Welsh bitch if they don't get all the tv money generated in UK etc.

That's another generalising statement, I have never bitched about having all the UK tele money. I have pointed out that we generate the most tele money when I get told that we do not contribute to the league, bat that is about it.

Again, why are our Irish members ALWAYS on the defence, you really need to start realising the problems with our league.

I'm sick of hearing about the BBC Wales TV money and how they are subsidising the league. In the meantime, Welsh fans never miss an opportunity to knock the league and they then seem to think that sponsors will drop out of somewhere. The penny does not seem to drop to these Welsh fans that if you keep talking the league down, they are also talking the income of the league down.

It is really frustrating that Welsh fans cannot get their head around the financial implications for the league by their continuing bitching and moaning about the league.

Much like how annoying it is that the Irish (generalising, as there are a few decent ones) fans can not get their head around that since the ERC/RCC issues their slamming of the Welsh and anything Welsh has created a huge rift. And that their unblinking loyalty to keeping the status-quo is holding the Pro12 back.
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Post by LordDowlais Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:34 am

Sin é wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

edit: I would also imagine it is difficult to get referees to ref games in Wales because the fans give them such a hard time.

I take it, you missed how the referee was treated in Glasgow's game at the weekend?

What has that got to do with how little respect the Welsh fans have for the referees and it is catching elsewhere.

Ah that is why there was booing of the ref in the ref in the Aviva when Wales were playing Ireland (when there was an injury which he didn't stop for), it was the Welsh teaching the Irish to disrespect the ref??

Crickey, a player out cold and the ref is ignoring it. That is not a good example to compare to what the ref's have to put up with when reffing in Wales.

booing a ref is booing a ref. That just shows we are all guilty of it, not just us Welsh as you would like to have everyone believe. OK

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Post by marty2086 Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:34 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Super Rugby 2015 Week 1
Crusaders v Rebels Ref Nick Briant NZRU

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515011
http://www.allblacks.com/Player/Referees/2013

Week 2 2015
Chiefs v Brumbies Ref Steve Walsh ARU
http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515021

Stormers v Blues Ref Craig Joubert SARU
http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515026

Highlanders v Reds Glen Jackson NZRU
http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515031

And who owns the NZ franchises? Would that be the NZRU?

I do not care about those lot, they probably have the same issues as us, I CARE about OUR league.

LordDowlais wrote:marty, instead of being sarcastic, try and focus on why having referees with potential bias is making a mockery of our league.

Super Rugby is considered by many to be the most exciting and entertaining league in the world yet potential bias doesn't make a mockery of it, it doesn't damage Test matches, it doesn't damage European competitions what does is bad officiating which is a bigger problem

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:40 am

Sin é wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

edit: I would also imagine it is difficult to get referees to ref games in Wales because the fans give them such a hard time.

I take it, you missed how the referee was treated in Glasgow's game at the weekend?

What has that got to do with how little respect the Welsh fans have for the referees and it is catching elsewhere.

Ah that is why there was booing of the ref in the ref in the Aviva when Wales were playing Ireland (when there was an injury which he didn't stop for), it was the Welsh teaching the Irish to disrespect the ref??

Crickey, a player out cold and the ref is ignoring it. That is not a good example to compare to what the ref's have to put up with when reffing in Wales.

Hey it happened in Glasgow, and there was even a try scored during that time. But that would be 'Welsh whinging' to mention it.


Anyway, I should congratulate you. I posted on this tread this morning with a post to show that there could well be a case of favouritism towards a non-irish side by an official who used to be in the employ of the Blues, you know in an attempt to show that not everything is a dig at the Irish. But seeing as that was wasted on you, I have been dragged into another I can wee higher than you contest.
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Post by LordDowlais Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:45 am

marty2086 wrote:Super Rugby is considered by many to be the most exciting and entertaining league in the world yet potential bias doesn't make a mockery of it, it doesn't damage Test matches, it doesn't damage European competitions what does is bad officiating which is a bigger problem

I consider the French league the most exciting in the world, so I guess I am not most people. You do realise the problems with Super Rugby don't you ? You have seen empty stadiums ? You have heard about the lack of money in it ?

Super rugby has as much the same issues as the Pro12 is having.

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Post by marty2086 Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:53 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Super Rugby is considered by many to be the most exciting and entertaining league in the world yet potential bias doesn't make a mockery of it, it doesn't damage Test matches, it doesn't damage European competitions what does is bad officiating which is a bigger problem

I consider the French league the most exciting in the world, so I guess I am not most people. You do realise the problems with Super Rugby don't you ? You have seen empty stadiums ? You have heard about the lack of money in it ?

Super rugby has as much the same issues as the Pro12 is having.

I guess Warrenball has dulled your sense of excitement in rugby but then again theres more Super Rugby shown on tv here so greater chance of catch an exciting game

There are major parallels between the two leagues and different ownership structures, tv deals and now with introducing new teams too but isn't there a new tv deal from next year which is a big jump in revenue? Though could be under threat depending on the Japan situation

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Post by Sin é Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:53 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

edit: I would also imagine it is difficult to get referees to ref games in Wales because the fans give them such a hard time.

I take it, you missed how the referee was treated in Glasgow's game at the weekend?

What has that got to do with how little respect the Welsh fans have for the referees and it is catching elsewhere.

Ah that is why there was booing of the ref in the ref in the Aviva when Wales were playing Ireland (when there was an injury which he didn't stop for), it was the Welsh teaching the Irish to disrespect the ref??

Crickey, a player out cold and the ref is ignoring it. That is not a good example to compare to what the ref's have to put up with when reffing in Wales.

booing a ref is booing a ref. That just shows we are all guilty of it, not just us Welsh as you would like to have everyone believe. OK

I don't really have a problem with booing if there is reason - its the indescriminate, non-stop booing that is the problem. No ref would want to put up with that.
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Post by SecretFly Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:53 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Super Rugby is considered by many to be the most exciting and entertaining league in the world yet potential bias doesn't make a mockery of it, it doesn't damage Test matches, it doesn't damage European competitions what does is bad officiating which is a bigger problem

I consider the French league the most exciting in the world, so I guess I am not most people. You do realise the problems with Super Rugby don't you ? You have seen empty stadiums ? You have heard about the lack of money in it ?

Super rugby has as much the same issues as the Pro12 is having.
As in many of their promising players and even old stalwarts being sucked up by NH sides? Yeah, the Top14 is a great old league for stealing the best of the rest and raiding Pharmacies for the buzz.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:58 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Super Rugby 2015 Week 1
Crusaders v Rebels Ref Nick Briant NZRU

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515011
http://www.allblacks.com/Player/Referees/2013

Week 2 2015
Chiefs v Brumbies Ref Steve Walsh ARU
http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515021

Stormers v Blues Ref Craig Joubert SARU
http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515026

Highlanders v Reds Glen Jackson NZRU
http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/match-centre/?season=2015&competition=205&match=515031

And who owns the NZ franchises? Would that be the NZRU?

I do not care about those lot, they probably have the same issues as us, I CARE about OUR league.

LordDowlais wrote:marty, instead of being sarcastic, try and focus on why having referees with potential bias is making a mockery of our league.

Super Rugby is considered by many to be the most exciting and entertaining league in the world yet potential bias doesn't make a mockery of it, it doesn't damage Test matches, it doesn't damage European competitions what does is bad officiating which is a bigger problem

I fully agree that it is possible to have refs from the unions for the teams involved, like I suggested a mixed officiating team would be a dream situation. And that a dire ref is a dire ref, no matter of national bias (if any).

The Super Rugby is the closest thing to the Pro12 out there. But we have a different format to the season that the SH, where we have domestic rugby, regional/provincial rugby, and international rugby, in blocks that allow players and fans to be directed purely to one area. But the NH is a real cluster-hump, as we have domestic (AIL, welsh prem, etc), Pro12, RCC, and International, all being played pretty much at the same time. Not to mention the fact the PR12 is an additional level squeeze in compared to the other rugby nations (Prem-RCC, T14-RCC, ITM-Super etc). Maybe if we had a structure similar to that of the SH, then the Pro12 could be pushed as a higher premium product, instead of being seen as on a par with domestic rugby elsewhere (Aviva/T14/ITM etc), which would potentially bring in more sponsorship etc.
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Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:02 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Some will always see the worst in the league because they just plain don't like it

well, I am one who certainly does like it. I just do not like the fact that we are in a position where our league could be called into disrepute because of potential bias and a conflict of interests with our referees.

I also hate the way the fixtures are organised, and I also do not like the criteria for hosting a Celtic final. Other than that, I think there is potential for our league to be a cracking league.

I am not against the Pro12, and have defended in numerous times in the past too.  But I do believe that there are some really big issues that do need sorting out.

With respect to the officials.  Why can we not have all four unions provide an even amount of officials, and then sort out the officials into teams involving one from each union.  These men can all swap around duties within the team (Ref, Line1, Line2, TMO), to allow people to gain experience in each role etc.  Then we would totally do away with the preferential treatment argument, and be able to all agree on poor decisions being down to people just not being up to the job (if there are issues).  The reason we don't have this is because the Pro12 is saving money by having 'home' linesmen and TMOs as then there are no hotel/flight costs involved.

If the Pro12 wants to grow then it will have to actually invest money to improve the product it supplies.


That is what I would like to see, but for that to happen we would need to see the Scots and Italian recruit and develop more of their own refs, or bring in more refs from elsewhere, like England. That, unfortunately, is not all that easy.

I don't have an issue with Pro12 refs, although TMO's are an issue for me. The only reason I would like to see more neutral refs is because it would help prevent these baseless accusations of bias.

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:05 pm

LordDowlais wrote:The Irish members on here are seeing it as a personal attack on the Irish, but it is not, there is a conflict of interests in our league and it is making a mockery of it.

LD, be honest. The vitriol is aimed at the Irish. We are seeing it as an attack on the Irish because that is generally what it is.

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Post by Sin é Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:08 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:The Welsh bitch if they don't get all the tv money generated in UK etc.

That's another generalising statement, I have never bitched about having all the UK tele money. I have pointed out that we generate the most tele money when I get told that we do not contribute to the league, but that is about it.

Again, why are our Irish members ALWAYS on the defence, you really need to start realising the problems with our league.

You/BBC don't generate the most money. Sky does (and we all have to fit into their schedule to facilitate that as well as BBCW.
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Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:13 pm

Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:The Welsh bitch if they don't get all the tv money generated in UK etc.

That's another generalising statement, I have never bitched about having all the UK tele money. I have pointed out that we generate the most tele money when I get told that we do not contribute to the league, but that is about it.

Again, why are our Irish members ALWAYS on the defence, you really need to start realising the problems with our league.

You/BBC don't generate the most money. Sky does (and we all have to fit into their schedule to facilitate that as well as BBCW.

And the Regions take most of the money they generate.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:13 pm

Munchkin wrote:That is what I would like to see, but for that to happen we would need to see the Scots and Italian recruit and develop more of their own refs, or bring in more refs from elsewhere, like England. That, unfortunately, is not all that easy.

I don't have an issue with Pro12 refs, although TMO's are an issue for me. The only reason I would like to see more neutral refs is because it would help prevent these baseless accusations of bias.

This is true, although surely they should be trying to produce more refs anyway. Anyway this system would require 6 officiating teams, so only 6 from each nation, the Italians have 2 Pro12 refs, so they would need to provide 4 linesmen/TMOs, so they are probably more than capable already. This is the only way to get around the 'neutrality' of the ref without forcing an all Scottish/Italian official team upon all Region V Province games.
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Post by LordDowlais Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:13 pm

Munchkin wrote:LD, be honest. The vitriol is aimed at the Irish. We are seeing it as an attack on the Irish because that is generally what it is.

Not from me it isn't. It's just a way certain members on here like to decipher it. I have always said about getting rid of the potential bias and the conflict of interests that cause the potential bias, without that there would be no argument. I have always said that ALL the unions in the league are to blame for its failings, something the Irish do not agree with. It's just when ever I mention these things, I get accused of being anti-Irish.

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Post by Sin é Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:14 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Super Rugby is considered by many to be the most exciting and entertaining league in the world yet potential bias doesn't make a mockery of it, it doesn't damage Test matches, it doesn't damage European competitions what does is bad officiating which is a bigger problem

I consider the French league the most exciting in the world, so I guess I am not most people. You do realise the problems with Super Rugby don't you ? You have seen empty stadiums ? You have heard about the lack of money in it ?

Super rugby has as much the same issues as the Pro12 is having.

Ronan O'Gara (coaching a French team), says its anything but exciting. Bish bam stuff.
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Post by Sin é Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:17 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:LD, be honest. The vitriol is aimed at the Irish. We are seeing it as an attack on the Irish because that is generally what it is.

Not from me it isn't. It's just a way certain members on here like to decipher it. I have always said about getting rid of the potential bias and the conflict of interests that cause the potential bias, without that there would be no argument. I have always said that ALL the unions in the league are to blame for its failings, something the Irish do not agree with. It's just when ever I mention these things, I get accused of being anti-Irish.

Your grand LD, but you know there are one or two Welsh fans who post here who never stop attacking everything Irish.
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Post by marty2086 Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:17 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
I fully agree that it is possible to have refs from the unions for the teams involved, like I suggested a mixed officiating team would be a dream situation.  And that a dire ref is a dire ref, no matter of national bias (if any).  

The Super Rugby is the closest thing to the Pro12 out there.  But we have a different format to the season that the SH, where we have domestic rugby, regional/provincial rugby, and international rugby, in blocks that allow players and fans to be directed purely to one area.  But the NH is a real cluster-hump, as we have domestic (AIL, welsh prem, etc), Pro12, RCC, and International, all being played pretty much at the same time.  Not to mention the fact the PR12 is an additional level squeeze in compared to the other rugby nations (Prem-RCC, T14-RCC, ITM-Super etc).  Maybe if we had a structure similar to that of the SH, then the Pro12 could be pushed as a higher premium product, instead of being seen as on a par with domestic rugby elsewhere (Aviva/T14/ITM etc), which would potentially bring in more sponsorship etc.

If Im not mistaken that's what does happen with the Pro12 but I think the Pro12 suffers most during international windows when the top refs like Owens aren't available but I know Ed Morrison dealt with a similar situation when he was at the RFU so maybe the man to develop the pool available to the league.

There does need to be greater coordination between the unions, teams and league on the different levels so as to protect and grow support at all levels. I noticed earlier this week the kick off times for the 3 Friday night games for Week 3, all at 6pm because of the RWC but that'll be a nightmare in 3 cities like Edinburgh, Limerick and Belfast with rush hour.


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Post by PhilBB Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:18 pm

Munchkin wrote:
You don't know if you have ever called an Irish referee a cheat? Either your memory sucks, or an Irish ref cheating doesn't really mean anything to you.......or .......... you're telling porkies. I say porkies.

It would have to be desperation that drives you to throw out such wafer thin arguments. You have nothing on the Irish ref's so you come up with a load of piffle, and attach a sound bite to it (colleague). You dreamt up the 'colleague' thing when the more obvious allegation would be national bias. The problem with that, for you, is it would be thrown back in your face.

Paranoia must be a terrible thing to live with, though I suppose the tin hatted conspiracy theorists embrace it, as it gives meaning to their lives.
\
Right, so you've no idea if I've ever called an Irish ref a cheat and you think that two chaps who work directly for the same employer are not colleagues, despite you trying to claim earlier in the thread that a similar accusation could be labelled at Welsh refs.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:19 pm

Sin é wrote:

Who employs George Clancy? The IRFU or the Revenue Commissioners?

Certainly the former, no idea about the latter.
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Post by PhilBB Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:20 pm

Sin é wrote:

Yea, plenty. The IRFU are not as strict about only one NIQ per position between the Provinces.

Yes, they found that was likely to be illegal. But much changed about the point in hand?
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Post by PhilBB Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:22 pm

marty2086 wrote:

Or maybe, just maybe everyone decided to pitch their hat into the ring and see what happened

Are all teams eligible?
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Post by LordDowlais Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:24 pm

Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:LD, be honest. The vitriol is aimed at the Irish. We are seeing it as an attack on the Irish because that is generally what it is.

Not from me it isn't. It's just a way certain members on here like to decipher it. I have always said about getting rid of the potential bias and the conflict of interests that cause the potential bias, without that there would be no argument. I have always said that ALL the unions in the league are to blame for its failings, something the Irish do not agree with. It's just when ever I mention these things, I get accused of being anti-Irish.

Your grand LD, but you know there are one or two Welsh fans who post here who never stop attacking everything Irish.

Nope, that's just how you like to see it. I point out an issue, before you know it, you take it as an attack. Rolling Eyes

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:31 pm

marty2086 wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
I fully agree that it is possible to have refs from the unions for the teams involved, like I suggested a mixed officiating team would be a dream situation. And that a dire ref is a dire ref, no matter of national bias (if any).

The Super Rugby is the closest thing to the Pro12 out there. But we have a different format to the season that the SH, where we have domestic rugby, regional/provincial rugby, and international rugby, in blocks that allow players and fans to be directed purely to one area. But the NH is a real cluster-hump, as we have domestic (AIL, welsh prem, etc), Pro12, RCC, and International, all being played pretty much at the same time. Not to mention the fact the PR12 is an additional level squeeze in compared to the other rugby nations (Prem-RCC, T14-RCC, ITM-Super etc). Maybe if we had a structure similar to that of the SH, then the Pro12 could be pushed as a higher premium product, instead of being seen as on a par with domestic rugby elsewhere (Aviva/T14/ITM etc), which would potentially bring in more sponsorship etc.

If Im not mistaken that's what does happen with the Pro12 but I think the Pro12 suffers most during international windows when the top refs like Owens aren't available but I know Ed Morrison dealt with a similar situation when he was at the RFU so maybe the man to develop the pool available to the league.

We have all three games at virtually the same time-:

Llanelli RFC Vrs Pontypridd (12noon, 5 Sep 2015)
Wales Vrs Italy (5pm 5 Sep 2015)
Glasgow Vrs Scarlets (5:15pm, 5 Sep 2015)

What I was on about was more like

August - Home Friendlies
September to December - Domestic Club rugby
January to April - June - Pro12
April - 6Ns
June - Summer Tour.


marty2086 wrote:There does need to be greater coordination between the unions, teams and league on the different levels so as to protect and grow support at all levels. I noticed earlier this week the kick off times for the 3 Friday night games for Week 3, all at 6pm because of the RWC but that'll be a nightmare in 3 cities like Edinburgh, Limerick and Belfast with rush hour.

It is going to be a real nightmare for fans who don't live close to the grounds too, probably having to leave work early etc.
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Post by marty2086 Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:32 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Or maybe, just maybe everyone decided to pitch their hat into the ring and see what happened

Are all teams eligible?

Well considering they were all asked to tender for it that would mean they were

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:33 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Munchkin wrote:That is what I would like to see, but for that to happen we would need to see the Scots and Italian recruit and develop more of their own refs, or bring in more refs from elsewhere, like England. That, unfortunately, is not all that easy.

I don't have an issue with Pro12 refs, although TMO's are an issue for me. The only reason I would like to see more neutral refs is because it would help prevent these baseless accusations of bias.

This is true, although surely they should be trying to produce more refs anyway.  Anyway this system would require 6 officiating teams, so only 6 from each nation, the Italians have 2 Pro12 refs, so they would need to provide 4 linesmen/TMOs, so they are probably more than capable already.  This is the only way to get around the 'neutrality' of the ref without forcing an all Scottish/Italian official team upon all Region V Province games.


Agree, the Scots and Italians should be producing more.

Looking at the Pro12 site, it appears that we have 17 refs. This would be fine, but for the question of neutrality. In a situation were the four Provinces are playing against the four Regions, we should see two Scots refs and two Italians. There are only two Italian refs, and both are not going to available for all games, and half the Scots refs come from Ulster Very Happy I think the Irish and welsh should develop 6 each, with the Scots and Italians developing 4 each.


Last edited by Munchkin on Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:33 pm

marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Or maybe, just maybe everyone decided to pitch their hat into the ring and see what happened

Are all teams eligible?

Well considering they were all asked to tender for it that would mean they were

Marty, because the criteria has never been made public, none of us will never know.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:35 pm

Munchkin wrote:the Scots and welsh should be producing more.

Headscratch

Do you mean Italians ?

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:37 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
You don't know if you have ever called an Irish referee a cheat? Either your memory sucks, or an Irish ref cheating doesn't really mean anything to you.......or .......... you're telling porkies. I say porkies.

It would have to be desperation that drives you to throw out such wafer thin arguments. You have nothing on the Irish ref's so you come up with a load of piffle, and attach a sound bite to it (colleague). You dreamt up the 'colleague' thing when the more obvious allegation would be national bias. The problem with that, for you, is it would be thrown back in your face.

Paranoia must be a terrible thing to live with, though I suppose the tin hatted conspiracy theorists embrace it, as it gives meaning to their lives.
\
Right, so you've no idea if I've ever called an Irish ref a cheat and you think that two chaps who work directly for the same employer are not colleagues, despite you trying to claim earlier in the thread that a similar accusation could be labelled at Welsh refs.


You think the a police officer and a tax man would describe themselves as colleagues? Sure, Phil......

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:40 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:the Scots and welsh should be producing more.

Headscratch

Do you mean Italians ?

You hacking into my computer again? mad

Yes, more Italians.

I have corrected Very Happy

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Post by PhilBB Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:41 pm

marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Or maybe, just maybe everyone decided to pitch their hat into the ring and see what happened

Are all teams eligible?

Well considering they were all asked to tender for it that would mean they were

I could have tendered to host in my back garden. It doesn't mean that I'm eligible to win the tender.

Aren't you aware of the requirements?
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Post by SecretFly Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:41 pm

A Grow Your Own program should be started by IRPRO12FU.  Grow your own ref.  A packet of seeds, sprinkle in February, harvest in August, ready to ref in October.

Italy and Scotland first up for the experiment.

Oh sorry. PS: Genetically modified seeds so as not to have the Bias gene. I wish you all luck in killing off the bias gene.

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https://www.606v2.com/viewtopic.forum?t=60505


Last edited by SecretFly on Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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