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PGA Tour: Welcome to the BIG Time Shane!: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 10 Aug 2015, 4:16 am

Possibly entering a Wi-Fi-Shy territory for a few days so let's kick the PGA Tour Notes off with a few ideas just to get a thread up and running:

guinness guinness guinness guinness guinness guinness guinness guinness guinness guinness guinness guinness guinness

1).Wonderful golf from Shane Lowry, even if he did have to out-luck Bubba Watson on the 18th. Love Lowry's swing and love his short game. The first Irishman to win a WGC and can there be any real doubt that he's capable of emulating Padraig Harrington and winning a Major or three?
As it is, he collects, among other things, a 3-year PGA Tour exemption; now for the hard part, planning a schedule and figuring out what he wants of the next three years, not what everyone else wants of him.
And Lowry's win should allow Martin Laird to enter the PGA as first "alternate".

2).Lee Westwood was among a handful of golfers who finally earned a place in the FedEx Play-Offs, alongside Lowry apparently. (EDIT! Apparently GPB's Golf Channel link suggests this is erroneous and he still requires high finishes at the PGA and/or Greensboro - doubt Shane will be too bothered about that.)
Donaldson was one of a handful of Bridgestone golfers who missed an opportunity to join them. Disappointing finish from Justin Rose - lots of focus from the CBS crew on Justin's putting, striking the short putts on the heel and pulling them. May not have cost him the tournament but almost certainly cost him second place.

3).JJ Henry won the Barracuda Championship in a very exciting finish with eagle on the second play-off hole - not often that golfers lose after birdieing both play-off holes, but that's what Kyle Reifers did, after eagling three of his final six holes. Wonder if that's a Tour first?
One talking point next time the Rules Committee get together will be Andres Romero's decision, with a nod from Tour Officials, to tee off on his last four holes of Round 3 with a putter and pick up claiming a maximum double bogey Stableford score of -3, having earlier damaged his right hand by planting a right cross firmly into the 15th tee sign. The hand swelled up like Rory's ankle and he withdrew after his round, but should that have been allowed?

4).This week's PGA Championship will be at Whistling Straits, about an hour north of Milwaukee overlooking Lake Michigan, for the 3rd time in 12 years. Apart from the actual Championship, the week will go a long way towards finalising Presidents Cup teams and determining the last few qualifiers for the FedEx Play-Offs. Next week's action at Greensboro will represent the final event of the regular season, do or die for famous names and journeymen alike.
Meanwhile, reports suggest that Dustin's bunker has been replaced with spectator seating so he'll get a free drop next time instead of a devastating penalty.

5).Although Vijay and Martin Kaymer won the two previous PGA's played here, and Dustin, Rory and Bubba were narrowly defeated last time, other top five positions have been filled by some of the Tour's shorter hitters: Justin Leonard, DiMarco, Zach Johnson, Chris Riley and Elkington. These players "go again" after earning top 20 placings in 2004 and 2010:
2004: Singh, Els, Mickelson, Scott, Clarke, Toms.
2010: Kaymer, Watson, McIlroy, Dustin & Zach, Dufner, Villegas, Day, Kuchar, Mickelson, Casey, Schwartzel, Gallacher, Els, Watney.

Both previous trips to Whistling Straits have ended in play-offs. The next time Europe's best golfers get to see the course will be in 2020. Not sure who'll win this week (Fingers Crossed for Stenson), but have no doubt that the 2020 winners will be Europe's Ryder Cup Team!

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 10 Aug 2015, 1:05 pm

Prize for the most moronic "appetiser" for a Championship golf event.
From The Barclays blurb, 2015 edition:

"Young Rory McIlroy has a lot of supporters all around the world and many fans are just waiting for him to take the spot as the best golfer in the world."

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Post by super_realist Mon 10 Aug 2015, 1:28 pm

That has to be written by a non golfing American who probably thinks 9C is still #1 in the rankings.

I sometimes wonder who they get to write golf. The BBC are similarly terrible at it and frequently get names and nationalities wrong whilst links to tournaments can be months out of date.

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Post by sirbenson Mon 10 Aug 2015, 1:51 pm

Really looking forward to this week! Whistling Straits is a fantastic course! The best on the rota this year!

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Post by sirbenson Mon 10 Aug 2015, 2:04 pm

Strange rule regarding Lowry! Surely a win on tour should make you exempt for the Play Offs bizarre..


Is it a two year exemption for winning a WGC or a three year exemption?

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Post by McLaren Mon 10 Aug 2015, 2:04 pm

Super

You will be pleased to know you are not the only Lowry hater out there. My imaginary girlfriend walked by as Lowry was coming up 18 and she was appalled at how fat he was.



Kwini

That is an idiotic line but I would be surprised if Rory wasn't a little concerned with just how good Spieth has been this season and whether or not he will be able to hold onto his #1 status come the end of the year.


Re point 2) and Donaldson this hits on something I have brought up many times over the last couple of seasons, and that is that Europeans double dipping is a concept of old. And one Lowry might need to consider as he will look to cement a position in the top 20 of the OWGR.
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Post by super_realist Mon 10 Aug 2015, 2:07 pm

I don't hate Lowry, He's probably a decent person, it's just a disgrace that a guy in his 20's is squandering his talent by carrying around 10 bags of sugar around his waist.

As for the McIlroy quote, I think Kwini was meaning it was written as if McIlroy would be looking to take the best golfer in the world accolade for the first time, as if he hasn't already been there.

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Post by McLaren Mon 10 Aug 2015, 2:15 pm

I got what the quote meant, I was trying to move the discussion on.


I understand that your answer to this question will rely on largely speculative and subjective reasoning, but in what ways would Lowry benefit from getting in shape and if he did so what level could he hope to achieve in the game?
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Post by super_realist Mon 10 Aug 2015, 2:25 pm

Can you name any sport in which the participant benefits from being obese?

Of course it's speculation, but the very top of the game is characterised by players who are in far better shape.

I've mentioned this a ton of times, but if I had half of Lowry's talent, I wouldn't be putting it to potential detriment by being hugely fat like he is.
He's been close in a few tournaments before, I wonder, especially in places where his disgusting weight is affected more greatly by heat, whether he might have finished them off? Seems he can't even be arsed to try.

Even if it doesn't affect his mental game, you try strapping ten bags of sugar equivalent around your waist, and even if you can swing properly, how much more tired, even if you think you don't notice it, do you think you'd be, and would you fancy your chances against the likes of Mcilroy, Kaymer, Stenson, Rose etc if you had to play 6 holes sudden death if your gargantuan gunt is already causing you to flag?

There is no evidence in any sport (barring stupid efforts like Sumo before someone brings it up) where being obese helps you perform better.


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Post by GPB Mon 10 Aug 2015, 4:33 pm

If Spieth decided to day that he want to play in the Race to Dubai, would his previous winnings at WGCs and Majors count?

I am not sure that they would be, as he sure is not listed as the leader in the RtD standings and IMO, they should not be.

Membership has its privileges (and its obligations).

And FWIW, few people would characterize Shane Lowry as obese.  Yes he is overweight and I haven't got up close and personal with him, but I doubt if his BMI is 30 or greater.

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Post by super_realist Mon 10 Aug 2015, 4:42 pm

GPB wrote:If Spieth decided to day that he want to play in the Race to Dubai, would his previous winnings at WGCs and Majors count?

I am not sure that they would be, as he sure is not listed as the leader in the RtD standings and IMO, they should not be.

Membership has its privileges (and its obligations).

And FWIW, few people would characterize Shane Lowry as obese.  Yes he is overweight and I haven't got up close and personal with him, but I doubt if his BMI is 30 or greater.

Apparently he is. 183cm/102kg according to his Wiki page. That makes his BMI 30.4, a.k.a OBESE, but even if he's lost a some weight, then he's still on the wrong side of being really overweight. Unacceptable for someone who has all day to be in the best possible condition.

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Post by incontinentia Mon 10 Aug 2015, 4:58 pm

GPB wrote:
And FWIW, few people would characterize Shane Lowry as obese.  Yes he is overweight and I haven't got up close and personal with him, but I doubt if his BMI is 30 or greater.
Marginally overweight from what I've seen of him yesterday. Anyway, hope this win is the spark to elevate Shane's career to the next level, and hopefully break the OWGR top 10. thumbsup
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Post by GPB Mon 10 Aug 2015, 5:10 pm

super_realist wrote:
GPB wrote:If Spieth decided to day that he want to play in the Race to Dubai, would his previous winnings at WGCs and Majors count?

I am not sure that they would be, as he sure is not listed as the leader in the RtD standings and IMO, they should not be.

Membership has its privileges (and its obligations).

And FWIW, few people would characterize Shane Lowry as obese.  Yes he is overweight and I haven't got up close and personal with him, but I doubt if his BMI is 30 or greater.

Apparently he is. 183cm/102kg according to his Wiki page. That makes his BMI 30.4, a.k.a OBESE, but even if he's lost a some weight, then he's still on the wrong side of being really overweight. Unacceptable for someone who has all day to be in the best possible condition.


Because Wiki pages are so accurate?  censored  Ok, Sure they are.

Upon further Review

And if BMI is only calculated on Height and Weight, I am sorry I brought it up.  Because that formula would not measure how much of the weight is muscle and how much is fat.

http://blogs.plos.org/obesitypanacea/2012/02/10/why-the-body-mass-index-bmi-is-a-poor-measure-of-your-health/

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Post by super_realist Mon 10 Aug 2015, 5:15 pm

I'm not saying they are (either the measurements come from EUropean Tour/PGA/Wiki etc , they're all the same) , but if you think Shane Lowry's capacious belly is muscle, then you've obviously not seen him in the flesh. He's a fat git and no mistake. I saw him just a few weeks ago about 30 metres away

If you were comparing a heavyweight boxer using the BMI index then yes, it wouldn't be an approriate method, but Lowry isn't anything like being in that category, he's in atrocious shape. At best, he's seriously overweight.

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Post by GPB Mon 10 Aug 2015, 5:56 pm

For whats its worth, I doubt is players bios are updated every time a players goes up (or down).

And, yes, thank you for taking my muscle vs fat out of context to say that Shane has "abdominals" vs "flabdominals".

I didn't say that at all.  It was just a commentary of the limitations of the BMI formula.

Shane does not look obese to me, and IMO you over critical of him.  IMO, Westwood is (and definitely has been) just as flabby as Lowry and I haven't see your animus directed towards him.

I prefer to judge people on who they are, rather than on superficial attributes like Nine Chins, or non traditional names, or girth, or personal beliefs.

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Post by pedro Mon 10 Aug 2015, 6:07 pm

For American standards Shane Lowry is average, McDowell is slim and Westwood is a skinny b!tch.

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Post by McLaren Mon 10 Aug 2015, 6:34 pm

GPB

I am not into the level of lowry bashing that Super engages in but would you not agree that Lowry could see performance gains if he were to improve his fitness level?

Does anyone know where we can find Lowry's 4th round scoring average?
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Post by Shotrock Mon 10 Aug 2015, 7:56 pm

GPB - What are you saying? Take away the stereotypes? Pedro's reference table to "American" standards? Silly talk.

Mac is right IMO ... I'm sure Lowry's belly fat doesn't help his game, but it's also not hurting it at the moment. Seems to be getting around the course OK and the swing doesn't look to be suffering.

Would a more fit Monty have actually won a major (not a fossil major mind you) in his day? Perhaps.

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 10 Aug 2015, 7:57 pm

McLaren wrote:GPB

I am not into the level of lowry bashing that Super engages in but would you not agree that Lowry could see performance gains if he were to improve his fitness level?

Does anyone know where we can find Lowry's 4th round scoring average?
Not sure this follows so easily. Lowry has grown up with a swing built around his shape etc. Change that radically and, relatively, quickly and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see his game drop off. Concentration levels re. increased cardio fitness are another issue and there's little doubt about that but would Lowry think the game through better for losing a stone or two? Not sure I buy it - it's not like he's having to make split-second decisions in the 79th minute of a rugby test match.

Great result for Lowry in any case. Seems like a talented player and a decent guy too. Hope he can kick on and maintain/improve on this.
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Post by super_realist Mon 10 Aug 2015, 8:08 pm

GPB wrote:For whats its worth, I doubt is players bios are updated every time a players goes up (or down).

And, yes, thank you for taking my muscle vs fat out of context to say that Shane has "abdominals" vs "flabdominals".

I didn't say that at all.  It was just a commentary of the limitations of the BMI formula.

Shane does not look obese to me, and IMO you over critical of him.  IMO, Westwood is (and definitely has been) just as flabby as Lowry and I haven't see your animus directed towards him.

I prefer to judge people on who they are, rather than on superficial attributes like Nine Chins, or non traditional names, or girth, or personal beliefs.

Well, you were trying to highlight the limitations of BMI as if Lowry was some sort of anomaly. Lowry is the typical person for which the BMI is intended to highlight their lack of self control.

He's in very poor shape, he doesn't appear to control his diet and he doesn't appear to do any sort of cardiovascular work to improve his fitness, he looks like a 50 year old bus driver, not a professional sportsman, it seems he does nothing but play golf and eat.
In the modern day of small % adding up to make the big difference, Lowry is a case in point of someone who ignores that. Talent can only take you so far and although it's doing a pretty good job, I can only think of all the footballers, rugby players etc who have ruined or curtailed their careers through not taking enough care of themselves. Lowry might not win any more if he was normal (although fat seems to have been normalised and deemed acceptable these days), but in a world of cuthroat competition where golfers are relatively fit and slim by your average golfer standard, though not proper sportsman, being fat like Lowry isn't really giving you a competitive advantage especially when playing on some of the hotter tour stops that he evidently gives up on.

and yes, with a belly like that which means he couldn't even see his little general without having curvature of the spine, I'd consider that obese.

Westwood has been overweight for which I've criticised him, but he was never in Lowry's league of Billy Bunterniss.

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Post by sirbenson Mon 10 Aug 2015, 8:33 pm

Oh I see the usual Lowry critics are out in force, tiresome at this stage

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Post by Davie Mon 10 Aug 2015, 8:40 pm

SirB - the haters aren't really much worse than the Irish who give Big Shane more credit than he deserves - at least up until this point. And as for Padraigh well those outside of the Emerald Isles must be sick of hearing HIS supporters piping up for him every week when really apart from one unexpected win he's been in the wilderness for so long it's almost as boring as reading about the world 287 every week

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Post by sirbenson Mon 10 Aug 2015, 8:45 pm

Davie wrote:SirB - the haters aren't really much worse than the Irish who give Big Shane more credit than he deserves - at least up until this point. And as for Padraigh well those outside of the Emerald Isles must be sick of hearing HIS supporters piping up for him every week when really apart from one unexpected win he's been in the wilderness for so long it's almost as boring as reading about the world 287 every week

Oh I didn't realise you couldn't support players on a forum?!  

I must not have got the memo

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Post by Davie Mon 10 Aug 2015, 8:56 pm

It was on the same memo that said you can't be critical of players

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Post by sirbenson Mon 10 Aug 2015, 9:03 pm

Fair enough point!

Go Padraig!!!

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Post by JAS Mon 10 Aug 2015, 9:31 pm

I kind of get what Super's saying although it is perhaps somewhat exaggerated. Years ago Westwood was more of a chubster but then he clearly went to work on it and eventually came back and elevated himself to World number one for a time. When Nicklaus first emerged he wasn't exactly an adonis was he? 20-30 years ago no-one would even have questioned/tried to relate Lowry's potential to his shape/conditioning. The game has moved on, players are looking for anything now that will give them marginal gains and being in tip top condition is one of the things that will yield some results. I reckon it works in several ways e.g less fatigued therefore better able to maintain a consistent swing. Better cardiovascular fitness makes you better able to cope under pressure. Then there are hilly courses, hot weather conditions, everything else being equal a fitter player will be better placed to cope in adverse environments. Then theres the longevity element, carrying less around over a period of years will put less strain on the joints and therefore be more likely to prevent injuries creeping in as a career progressed although 9c is a good example of overdoing it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if somebody took young Shane aside and said..."Look mate, you've clearly got talent and you're doing well but if you want to make the most of it and have some longevity at the top of the game you'd benefit from some conditioning work"

Just one thing though, last weeks winner at Murcar, Apibhanrat, his shape is down to a specific condition, anyone know for sure that Lowry isn't in the same boat?


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Post by incontinentia Mon 10 Aug 2015, 9:32 pm

sirbenson wrote:Oh I see the usual Lowry critics are out in force, tiresome at this stage
Yes, very tiresome. I feel sorry for them.
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Post by pedro Mon 10 Aug 2015, 9:53 pm

Lowry did in fact choke on the last few holes. Wayward drives, shaky iron play. Only his short game and luck of the Irish saved him.

With that being said I really like Shane. He seems like a genuinely nice guy.

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Post by incontinentia Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:22 pm

Ironically, i bet a player with the personality of Lowry and the physique of Woods would be super's favourite golfer ever.
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Post by pedro Mon 10 Aug 2015, 10:26 pm

incontinentia wrote:Ironically, i bet a player with the personality of Lowry and the physique of Woods would be super's favourite golfer ever.
Not so sure.. Remember he's Oirish... Whistle

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Post by incontinentia Mon 10 Aug 2015, 11:02 pm

This hypothetical golfer would also have been born in international waters.
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Post by McLaren Mon 10 Aug 2015, 11:12 pm

incontinentia wrote:This hypothetical golfer would also have been born in international waters.

Oh no, would he have G-macs accent?
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Post by MustPuttBetter Mon 10 Aug 2015, 11:38 pm

I like Shane Lowry, and I've said on here long before now that I think he'll win major.
But those trying to say he's not very overweight must be kidding right??!
Marginally overweight? Lee Westwood is flabbier? I need to get one of these tv's!!
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Post by super_realist Tue 11 Aug 2015, 6:49 am

incontinentia wrote:Ironically, i bet a player with the personality of Lowry and the physique of Woods would be super's favourite golfer ever.

Actually, I think that 9C's physique is just as hysterically stupid and potentially detrimental as Lowry's.  There is no need to be as muscular as that for golf, I think it could make you just as inflexible and physically tired as being a Billy Bunter would.

9C's obsession with the Gym and being so needlessly large hasn't done him any good in the last 7 years in terms of the majors he wants so much and instead of spending 2 hours a day in there, he should have been on the range working on his "lavvy chain" swing and sorting out his lamentable chipping and putting.

Someone like Martin Kaymer seems to have a good blend of the right physical attributes to be flexible and not too large.

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Post by MustPuttBetter Tue 11 Aug 2015, 9:59 am

Martin Kaymer and Henrik Stenson are cool looking dudes on the golf course
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Post by McLaren Tue 11 Aug 2015, 12:25 pm

At the US open Chambers Bay wasn't exactly popular and doubts remain about TOC's suitability as a major venue.  Does Whistling Straits better embody what the average golf fan considers to be a true championship course?

Despite DJ's bunker debackle last time out the venue seems popular among the mainstream golf press and was ranked as the best PGA championship course by GD (DG Top 20 PGA championship courses).



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Post by super_realist Tue 11 Aug 2015, 12:43 pm

Mac, I don't think the old farts at the R&A have doubts about TOC as a venue. I'm sure it will continue to get more Opens than it deserves.
Once a decade would be fine, twice a decade is absurd.

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Post by hend085 Tue 11 Aug 2015, 1:08 pm

anyone have any info on Miguel Angel Jimenez this week? hes 900/1 to win in whistling straights. considering plenty of short hitters have featured before (as kwini mentioned) then it seems like something else might be the reason for his long odds? injured maybe?

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Post by raycastleunited Tue 11 Aug 2015, 1:16 pm

incontinentia wrote:
Marginally overweight from what I've seen of him yesterday.

Maybe it was the all black outfit on Sunday that fooled you - they do say black is a slimming colour. Although it didn't cover up his man boobs juggling around when he walked, the guy needs a bra. Seriously, you must have a warped view of body shape if you think that Lowry is only marginally overweight.

I don't want to get too involved in the fat bashing debate, but others have pointed out the benefits of staying in shape. I watched an in depth interview with Justin Rose a few years ago where he showed the cameras his daily routine which of course included weights and cardio, he was convinced it made that marginal difference which was enough to elevate his performance to major winner. Lee Westwood has gone on record to say he benefitted from his fitness regime, Rory as well has explained why he spends so much time in the gym.

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Post by MustPuttBetter Tue 11 Aug 2015, 1:21 pm

McLaren wrote:At the US open Chambers Bay wasn't exactly popular and doubts remain about TOC's suitability as a major venue.  Does Whistling Straits better embody what the average golf fan considers to be a true championship course?

Despite DJ's bunker debackle last time out the venue seems popular among the mainstream golf press and was ranked as the best PGA championship course by GD (DG Top 20 PGA championship courses).


Hazeltine and Quail Hollow both always look like fantastic courses to me, surprised they're both not higher
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Post by pedro Tue 11 Aug 2015, 1:27 pm

Whistling Straits is a great course and it was a pleasure to watch it last time around.

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Post by incontinentia Tue 11 Aug 2015, 1:33 pm

Yes Ray, but the camera adds 10 pounds so you have to factor that in aswell. Smile
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Post by raycastleunited Tue 11 Aug 2015, 1:38 pm

incontinentia wrote:Yes Ray, but the camera adds 10 pounds so you have to factor that in aswell. Smile

AND we're watching in wide screen!

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Post by Bob_the_Job Tue 11 Aug 2015, 2:04 pm

Late to the party...

Cheers Kwini - good write up as usual.

Lowry - fantastic win and well deserved.

Lowry - yeah he's a bit fat these days. I stood three feet from him at the Irish open a couple of years ago and I'd have said chunky, but now he looks bigger and flabbier. Is that detrimental to his golf? Well I'm not as certain as S_R but I'm surprised as a professional sportsperson he's not tried to get himself in better shape to see if it improves his golf (it's not like it would be hard to go back to the shape he is now). I have to think, setting aside medical issues, that those golfers not in shape are settling for being as good as they are, not aiming to be as good as they can be. I agree though that the extra weight he carries is more about tiring him out - you can be fat and still have the core strength of a McIlroy or Rose, and Shane certainly sends it out there.
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Post by McLaren Tue 11 Aug 2015, 2:28 pm

Just had a look and Shane is T80th (which includes those with less than 10 rounds) in round 4 scoring average (70.43), the leader (of those with 10+ rounds) is Will Wilcox at 68.00. Despite the inconsistencies in the ranking Shane could clearly improve.

Could getting into shape improve that stat for him?



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Post by super_realist Tue 11 Aug 2015, 2:30 pm

Worth a try. THere isn't a sport in the world where being heavier than you could be doesn't tire you towards the end.

5 hours in 30C and 95% Humidity is going to be a lot more tiring if you weigh 16 stone than 12 or 13, even if you are only walking and hitting 60-75 shots a round.

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Post by pedro Tue 11 Aug 2015, 2:55 pm

Shanes stroke avg. on the ET is 70.64 (19), 71.5 in R4, ie. one stroke worse.

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Post by GPB Tue 11 Aug 2015, 2:58 pm

WGC Bridgestone will not be an official event on the 2016 Euro Tour schedule because of the conflict with the French Open.

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/16-bridgestone-wont-count-toward-race-dubai-ryder-cup/

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Post by MontysMerkin Wed 12 Aug 2015, 10:56 am

Good job lowrys not black as well, I reckon super would be after lynching him!
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Post by super_realist Wed 12 Aug 2015, 11:07 am

We'd need an anchor chain and a crane

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