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This is Cheating!

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Post by hawkeye Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:25 am

First topic message reminder :

This is what Kyrgios did to gain advantage over Wawrinka in their 2nd round match in Montreal

http://thebiglead.com/2015/08/12/nick-kyrgios-to-stan-wawrinka-kokkinakis-banged-your-girlfriend-sorry-to-tell-you-that-mate/

Not only is it cheating but it should in my opinion been punished with a code violation. I believe it should have been judged as a major incident of aggravated behavior and should have resulted in Kyrgios being defaulted. It could be considered verbal abuse, unsportsmanlike behavior and conduct contrary to the integrity of the game. According to the ATP rule book a singularly egregious, a single violation of any of these offenses shall also constitute the player Major Offense of Aggravated Behavior. This carries a penalty of immediate default and can also result in suspension from the ATP tour.

So why was Kyrgios not penalized? If the Umpire didn't hear at the time penalties can be given retrospectively when evidence is discovered. My guess is that the ATP is so worried about selling the game post FeDal they are will even stoop to selling it as a circus Kyrgios is probably being paid more for this sort of behavior (in endorsements) than he is for his tennis skills Rolling Eyes It is also a way of gaining advantage in matches that doesn't involve tennis skills at all Rolling Eyes

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Post by Haddie-nuff Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:20 am

break_in_the_fifth wrote:What about Kokkinakis' "ruined reputation"?

I think if you look at past posts instead of jumping in at the deep end, you will see that it has already been mentioned.. bear in mind too he is supposed to be a friend of Kyrigos .some friend Rolling Eyes

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Post by break_in_the_fifth Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:26 am

Fair enough then, I haven't got much to add.

He obviously shouldn't have done what he did but I think he's been punished enough and I don't think it will affect my support of him much in future. There is a pretty large section of society that talk like that. Wouldn't it be a form of discrimination if they weren't represented in the world of tennis?

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Post by Haddie-nuff Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:39 am

Because of that is why I worry .. the type of followers that this type of player attracts.. you only have to see a handful of Australian supporters to see how that can escalate.
ive watched tennis for too many years and seen the calibre of players past and present that have played the great courts all over the world. Bad behaviour on court is not new and has always been treated as such.. this is spilled over into something else and given that it is not nipped in the bud I just wonder where it could end.
I echo temp's question had this derogatory, crude comment been made to the maestro Federer...what then Shocked

One last thought to consider.. had this happened on the centre court, the hallowed ground, the Holy Grail of tennis... warning I defy anyone to say the Wimbledon Tournament Officials would not have demanded his head on a plate Wink

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Post by Johnyjeep Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:36 am

I too wonder where it will end.

Not tennis. But this thread.

Does anyone have a link to show me where I can read that the parties involved, Kokkinakis and the lady, have been 'hurt'.

Because I know posters on here are not extrapolating that from how they think they should be feeling.

As for the comment about a civil lawsuit. Well, I best not say anything in case I too become embroiled in a court case. Apart from, lets hope they use one of those no win, no fees firms to represent them. I can imagine said firms next advert. Forget PPI or Personal Injury...

"Has your child had anything said to them in the playground today that they could possibly have been upset by?"

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Post by hawkeye Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:47 am

break_in_the_fifth wrote:There is a pretty large section of society that talk like that. Wouldn't it be a form of discrimination if they weren't represented in the world of tennis?
Erm


Considering the outrage that this has caused it would be difficult for the ATP to simply brush this under the carpet and to continue to promote Krgyios as a "character". IMO he will be given a suspension.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:32 am

The only person who has had anything sensible to say on the matter is shock horror Andy Murray, the pro equality brigade like Martina are over-reacting to the extreme, pathetic behaviour from then.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:32 am

Can we drop the 1970's "countries gone to the dogs" "pc brigade" "kids wrapped in cotton wool" act?

I adressed this last night, somewhere in the middle is about right, Martinas correct, Jimmy was a prat but clever enough to not go too far, he took issue with the player himself, not the guys close friends and family.

If you think people getting angry at a guy acting like that is overly pc then I dont know what to say, thats a normal persons reaction,

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Post by Johnyjeep Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:51 am

You haven't addressed anything Temp. You've given your opinion. As has everyone on here. You are not the final arbiter on the matter. There are still a whole raft of questions I've posed which haven't been answered. Not least what these far reaching ramification are.

Fortunately, even a cursory glance on here can see that it's only a very very small minority who think any further action on this is necessary. Yourself included I think.

If it's anything more severe than a suspended suspension, then there most likely will be legal action. From Krygios.

Then this whole episode will be thrown into a far bigger spotlight. One that transcends across sport. Which I'm sure is what all stakeholders want!!! (that's sarcasm btw) Because believe it not, this is a (faux) storm in a tea cup. Outside of tennis, no one will care.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:53 am

It's an opinion and you would be better served to realise there are many of them and yours isn't necessarily correct, the PC brigade thing is what this all boils down to, an over reaction to nothing. Kakkinakis himself is going to be really affected by all this isn't he, we've all been 19 so should know better about these things.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:59 am

There are far more people than the posters on this thread that can be criticised in that case..Far more important and with more insight and influence in the sport. Those who have played during the years, and some of whom are his own countrymen.
With respect to Andy Murray his opinion does not have much clout given until recently he was pretty mouthy himself albeit he drew a line at this type of behaviour.
My final word is I hope they take him to the cleaners frankly
He deserves every ounce of criticism he is receiving.
The article I posted earlier concerning his brother shows that frankly he knows little better as it must have been the environment in which he was brought up

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:03 am

Temp, the above comment is what i'm talking, someone wanting to be offended by anything is offended by everything, frankly an infantile attitude on this.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:07 am

Then how about both of you dont come on here, with an aggressive attitude and keep having a pop at the forum for being over pc as you see it eh?

Also dont get personal with me. Ive stated many times I dont think any further action is necessary, you simply cant be bothered to read any other posts.

Both of you calm yourselves down and stick to topic, treat the rest of the forum with more respect than you are. Understand?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:15 am

If that's how I see it and feel it's a valid opinion to hold then that is the opinion I will discuss, I however will not be dictated to by someone who seems to be struggling to comprehend a difference of opinion. I have stuck to the topic throughout and respond in kind to any comments presented to me, if you think this is an aggressive attitude then that pretty much sums things up.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:18 am

Done it again. Having a go at me, not the topic. More than that you just lied about what I said.

Nobody is stopping you having an opinion, you just dont like what we have to say about your attitude, stick to topic lad like everyone else has, or leave, im not playing this game with you

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:20 am

Genuinely baffled by what you're going on about, all because someone disagrees with you.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:21 am

Kygrios should be hung, drawn and quartered.

Better?

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Post by Jeremy_Kyle Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:38 am

Life is hard and making a life out of tennis is lot harder than what most people generally experienc, Competitive tennis is not a game for little sister and the top WTA ladies are probably the toughest piece of work of them all. So just like in football and any other sports with this kind of money episodes like this one happen on a daily basis, it just don't always get recorded. I don't like at all what Kyrgios did but at least the guy has some character to bring on court for a change!
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Post by It Must Be Love Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:08 am

I think Kyrgios is a d*ck, and he shouldn't have said what he said, but I really don't think a suspension is necessary.

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Post by It Must Be Love Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:12 am

As for the broader argument, I do agree that our culture has become a bit over-sensitive and we all get offended on others behalf rather easily.
But it's also clearly true here that what Kyrgios said was inappropriate and unnecessary. Sportsman also have a slightly different role to other public figures, as they are role models for youngsters. With all the outrage against him, I suspect the kids of today will probably be less likely to behave like that on a tennis court in future, which could be one good thing to come out of it.

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Post by Born Slippy Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:27 am

But a fine will have zero impact on him. Ban him from Cinci as at least a gesture that this type of behaviour is unacceptable. As Haddie has pointed out, given that his brother thinks making "she loves the Kokk" comments on radio is helping his cause, he clearly isn't going to learn any other way.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:34 am

As for the broader argument, I do agree that our culture has become a bit over-sensitive

Really??? are you kidding me. 21st Century culture over sensitive ???
What planet are you on ?? if you think todays culture is oversensitive then go back half a century and tell me what you think that it was,
That has to be the laugh of the year for me. Turn on the tv and F BOMB
explodes every other sentence. Watch Jeremy Kyle and tell me its over sensitive..
Most things are acceptable in the right place at the right time.. this was not one of them

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:37 am

No grasp of modern society I see then.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:46 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:No grasp of modern society I see then.

I can see why you are such a fan of Nick the Dick Wink

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:48 am

Comments like that are acceptable then are they?

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Post by It Must Be Love Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:48 am

Born Slippy wrote:But a fine will have zero impact on him. Ban him from Cinci as at least a gesture that this type of behaviour is unacceptable. As Haddie has pointed out, given that his brother thinks making "she loves the Kokk" comments on radio is helping his cause, he clearly isn't going to learn any other way.
The fine will have zero impact, but the reaction of the media and other players definitely will. Also he can't control his brother's actions.

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Post by Born Slippy Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:58 am

I don't recall saying he could control his brother. My point was that, if that's an example of the type of people around him, the advice he will get will not be good. A short suspension would, in my view, be totally appropriate for this issue.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:01 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Comments like that are acceptable then are they?


Yes when you continue to make snide comments to or about other posters on this thread then you open the door to a response. Your comment to something I said to another poster was not asked or called for.
Rather like the person you champion

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:03 pm

Ok lets end this here shall we. A lines been drawn. Getting too off topic.

What does everyone think about suspension? Too far I think but who knows

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Post by Haddie-nuff Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:17 pm

Definitely.
A fine is forgotten almost immediately. Let it be remembered an seen by the younger players coming through that this kind of behaviour cannot be tolerated.
Let them emulate the behaviour of the greats in todays tennis. Be know for their talent and sportsmanship,
Maybe, and I stress maybe, Kyrigos will then have learned something.
Come back to  the Sport and be known for his tennis

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Post by Guest Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:24 pm

I don't see why people think others are "over sensitive" 

People have different sets of personal morality. Some would take what Nick said with a pinch of salt and others might take offence. Doesn't mean one is right and the other isn't.

Nick has apologised and been fined. That should be the end of the matter. Whether the two have a conversation behind closed doors is another thing all together.

One can only hope that Nick in the future might learn a bit more tack.

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Post by socal1976 Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:00 pm

Hammersmith, unfortunately I don't think is the best gauge of opinion and sensitivity levels, I do believe you once stated that you have no empathy for people less fortunate to you. Just being nasty for the sake of nastiness doesn't make someone enlightened. I think Haddie is correct, I wouldn't mind seeing a short, a short suspension so the kid could really see what he has done is incorrect. Jeremy Kyle this is tennis, this isn't football. People don't show up sauced to the match and chant terrace songs about shagging someone's wife and girlfriend or making jokes about r*** allegations. The game of tennis has a different audience and a right to protect their brand. A brand that other better players built over generations should not be tarnished by this kid. Frankly, I think a bit of pushback is good for him he shouldn't be enabled and should have boundaries set for his behavior by the ATP. He has probably been catered to a bit too much and needs a little kick. Not a huge deal, but worthy of discipline. Like smacking the hand of an unruly child he keeps wanting to push the boundaries and won't be swayed by reason or words.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:28 pm

socal1976 wrote:Hammersmith, unfortunately I don't think is the best gauge of opinion and sensitivity levels, I do believe you once stated that you have no empathy for people less fortunate to you. Just being nasty for the sake of nastiness doesn't make someone enlightened. I think Haddie is correct,  I wouldn't mind seeing a short, a short suspension so the kid could really see what he has done is incorrect. Jeremy Kyle this is tennis, this isn't football. People don't show up sauced to the match and chant terrace songs about shagging someone's wife and girlfriend or making jokes about r*** allegations. The game of tennis has a different audience and a right to protect their brand. A brand that other better players built over generations should not be tarnished by this kid. Frankly, I think a bit of pushback is good for him he shouldn't be enabled and should have boundaries set for his behavior by the ATP. He has probably been catered to a bit too much and needs a little kick. Not a huge deal, but worthy of discipline. Like smacking the hand of an unruly child he keeps wanting to push the boundaries and won't be swayed by reason or words.

Spot on socal anything less is unfair to those professionals that have worked so hard to build the reputation of the Sport they play and love

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Post by summerblues Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:22 am

I just about totally agree with socal's viewpoint on this matter.

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Post by Jeremy_Kyle Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:57 am

socal1976 wrote: Jeremy Kyle this is tennis, this isn't football. People don't show up sauced to the match and chant terrace songs about shagging someone's wife and girlfriend or making jokes about r*** allegations. The game of tennis has a different audience and a right to protect their brand. A brand that other better players built over generations should not be tarnished by this kid. Frankly, I think a bit of pushback is good for him he shouldn't be enabled and should have boundaries set for his behavior by the ATP. He has probably been catered to a bit too much and needs a little kick. Not a huge deal, but worthy of discipline. Like smacking the hand of an unruly child he keeps wanting to push the boundaries and won't be swayed by reason or words.

Socal Serena Williams has done much worst in her career, nevertheless she is regarded as probably the best player of all time in WTA and Wimbledon and other slams are all very happy to have her, in fact they would feel betrayed if she did not show up. My point is: not all players need to be perfect role models to make tennis work, quite the contrary. You have the good ones and it's all right in my humble view to have a couple of nasty ones who can make the show a little more entartaining and varied. It's not their job to be a role model right? Their job is to get to the the court and do all they can to win their matches. Personally I feel more offended when I see Almagro, Dimitrov and Verdasco handing over free win tickets to the top guys even if they have all the qualities to get the wins. That make me feel outraged!
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Post by Haddie-nuff Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:26 am

We have had nasty ones in the past, they have all added a bit of "colour" to matches but they have never chosen BLUE... they knew when to draw the line and never have brought so much down upon themselves that the whole world of tennis is calling for blood.
It is totally unfair on ALL of the players and the profession that he has brought the sport into the limelight for all the wrong reasons.
A simple fine of 12,500 will not bring him into line he probably spends more than that on a good week end with his mates.
A suspension HE will remember and so will the rest of the tennis world

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Post by Haddie-nuff Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:43 am

What the hell is going on...

Now we have another incident  !!

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/aug/16/thanasi-kokkinakis-in-heated-on-court-row-following-nick-kyrgios-controversy

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Post by Guest Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:03 pm

Wow. Nicks far reaching influence is unparalleled!

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Post by socal1976 Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:40 pm

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:
socal1976 wrote: Jeremy Kyle this is tennis, this isn't football. People don't show up sauced to the match and chant terrace songs about shagging someone's wife and girlfriend or making jokes about r*** allegations. The game of tennis has a different audience and a right to protect their brand. A brand that other better players built over generations should not be tarnished by this kid. Frankly, I think a bit of pushback is good for him he shouldn't be enabled and should have boundaries set for his behavior by the ATP. He has probably been catered to a bit too much and needs a little kick. Not a huge deal, but worthy of discipline. Like smacking the hand of an unruly child he keeps wanting to push the boundaries and won't be swayed by reason or words.

Socal Serena Williams has done much worst in her career, nevertheless she is regarded as probably the best player of all time in WTA and Wimbledon and other slams are all very happy to have her, in fact they would feel betrayed if she did not show up. My point is: not all players need to be perfect role models to make tennis work, quite the contrary. You have the good ones and it's all right in my humble view to have a couple of nasty ones who can make the show a little more entartaining and varied.  It's not their job to be a role model right? Their job is to get to the the court and do all they can to win their matches. Personally I feel more offended when I see Almagro, Dimitrov and Verdasco handing over free win tickets to the top guys even if they have  all the qualities to get the wins. That make me feel outraged!

I was a fan of Connors growing up, so I understand what you are saying. I mean I actually enjoy watching Kyrgios play. But I think a bit of pushback is good for the kid. Yes we need a mix of personalities but if you cross the line you should be punished. And I think here this comment crosses the line. It is all good to have fire in your belly, but when you get to misogyny and disrespecting your opponent like that tennis should step in. I mean I don't want him to be suspended for a long time or punished super harshly but he should know what the line is. In my mind a good proportional response would be a one tournament suspension. Hey people do make mistakes and I think this is very much a mistake that should carry a proportional response.

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Post by Henman Bill Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:32 pm

Fair point Socal although a suspended sentence, or in other words, you'll be suspended next time you do something similar would also work for me, I am not sure when he opened his mouth he would even have thought that suspension was on the cards.

Here's the comment from another brother. However, Christos subsequently posted his comments on his own Facebook page. “So just did a media interview for Nick [Kyrgios]. Said Donna [Vekic] obviously loved the ‘kokk’ [sic]. They cut my interview and said its the worst thing they have ever heard on air. Ah cheers.” Yet another bad influence for Nick, he's got no chance with this crowd.

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Post by socal1976 Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:09 pm

Yep HB exactly why he needs to feel a little blowback because it seems that he is surrounded by sycophants who cheer on his outrageous conduct. There is a lot of things that he does on the court that maybe is not exactly good sportsmanship that can be laughed off, this incident isn't one of them. Getting a smack for this is maybe the exact kind of lesson he needs before he does something really stupid.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:21 pm

And there is only so much a friend can take of him either

Lets not forget those he hurt in all this

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/aug/17/thanasi-kokkinakis-on-nick-kyrgios-sledge-he-cant-be-doing-that

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Post by TRuffin Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:20 am

Fed weighs in- "Crossed the line by a long shot"

http://m.tennis.com/pro-game/2015/08/federer-adds-kyrgios-criticism/55951/

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Post by Jahu Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:31 am

Fed said it nicely for Kyrgios a few months back: We Need A Clown For This Circus.

Korgi and Koki should be deported from Australia, to some isolated crappy greek island and let them chill a year or so, to man them up.
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Post by sirfredperry Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:07 am

Interestingly, Kokki had a good win over Fognini in the first round at Cinci, increasing the chances of a spicy meeting with Kyrgios if the mouthy Aussie can overcome Gasquet.

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Post by Calder106 Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:10 am

and Harrison was the innocent party in the Kokkinakis spat ? Don't think so. Who got the code violation ? Who was verbally threatening to hit people ?

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Post by bogbrush Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:14 am

Fines are a joke, suspensions make him feel like a victim.

Stan should just give him the pimp hand and be done with it.
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Post by hawkeye Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:00 am

Jahu wrote:

Korgi and Koki should be deported from Australia, to some isolated crappy greek island and let them chill a year or so, to man them up.

Kokkinakis was one of the victims in this. He has been quoted as saying he has had difficulty sleeping after the fall out from the incident. Your comment shows why. His professional reputation has been affected. Apart from the emotional distress this could end up costing him in loss of endorsements. Some here were dismissive when I mentioned the possibility of civil action against Kyrgios (in addition to the penalties from the ATP) but it looks like there are grounds for this.

Is Krygios playing in Cincy? Are the ATP still pondering what further action to take?

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Post by LuvSports! Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:26 am

He's playing Gasquet today I think.

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Post by Born Slippy Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:29 am

Gasquet and Kyrgios have some history from Wimbledon, so potential for further problems I suspect!

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Post by It Must Be Love Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:55 am

I'm actually starting to think now that what Kyrgios did was for the good of the sport. We need a villain, or an inspirational story about a young bad boy Aussie turned good and became a humble champion.

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