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This is Cheating!

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Post by hawkeye Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:25 am

First topic message reminder :

This is what Kyrgios did to gain advantage over Wawrinka in their 2nd round match in Montreal

http://thebiglead.com/2015/08/12/nick-kyrgios-to-stan-wawrinka-kokkinakis-banged-your-girlfriend-sorry-to-tell-you-that-mate/

Not only is it cheating but it should in my opinion been punished with a code violation. I believe it should have been judged as a major incident of aggravated behavior and should have resulted in Kyrgios being defaulted. It could be considered verbal abuse, unsportsmanlike behavior and conduct contrary to the integrity of the game. According to the ATP rule book a singularly egregious, a single violation of any of these offenses shall also constitute the player Major Offense of Aggravated Behavior. This carries a penalty of immediate default and can also result in suspension from the ATP tour.

So why was Kyrgios not penalized? If the Umpire didn't hear at the time penalties can be given retrospectively when evidence is discovered. My guess is that the ATP is so worried about selling the game post FeDal they are will even stoop to selling it as a circus Kyrgios is probably being paid more for this sort of behavior (in endorsements) than he is for his tennis skills Rolling Eyes It is also a way of gaining advantage in matches that doesn't involve tennis skills at all Rolling Eyes

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Post by JuliusHMarx Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:17 am

Kyrgios is undoubtedly uncouth and ill-mannered and got what he deserved in the way of a fine. It's the sexual reference that got him into trouble. A well-placed insult to a player's family member can be tolerated by the ATP - for example, I don't recall JMDP being hauled up (either officially or on this forum) up for insulting Murray's mother. I think some people quite enjoyed it. Crudeness, base innuendo is another matter.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:29 am

While true I dont remember people being too impressed with Delpo, he was also legitimately sorry for saying it, it also didnt divulge anything private

His comment has dropped two people right in it, imagine if someone mad ea comment about Mirka seeing someone else to Roger (god forbid of course)? Would be hell

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Post by Johnyjeep Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:34 am

temporary21 wrote:People's private life is private. Who she dates is of no interest to the public.  Just "it happens" isn't good enough a line needs to be drawn under that

Agreed. Now you just need to get the worlds media onside. Across society as a whole. And then we just need someone to determine what is of interest to the public and then tell the media. Lest we forget this would have remained completely unknown to the public if the broadcaster hadn't released footage of it after the event.

It has happened, he's been punished. He may be punished further. If you want a life without impropriety, from a race as flawed as homo sapiens, I'm not sure we can take this discussion any further. Because.........it does just happen. Especially in sport.

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Post by banbrotam Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:36 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:picard Banter !!!!??? my ar$$
Punishable ?? of course it is

It is not what people want to see or hear paying a small fortune for a court side seat. He is not bigger than the sport
it can do without him and players like him


Goodness knows how you survived the Connors / "Nastyse" days. I'm no fan of Nasty Nick, as I simply maintain that he's a bit of a one trick pony as that terrible Isner match showed last night - but please go away and look at the bear-baiting Connors gave Lendl in 82 or 3 (or both!!) US Open final and that was actually across the net, in his face

My admiration fro Murray goes up on this one, his comments about giving the youngster a break is totally the correct on, which I'd wager that Novak agrees on. Simply because both these two have been misunderstood numerous times themselves and I'd argue that Nole still suffers for this

I like Stan, after Andy he's my next fave - but he should be helping Kygious to improve, like Hewitt is, not trying to bury him with a ban

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Post by banbrotam Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:42 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:[b]You simply don't get it do you??? Fortunately the majority of posters on here do..as do the tennis world who are tearing him to pieces.
This girl had nothing whatsoever to do with the match on court ...her private life is hers to tell if she so chooses, BUT SHE DIDNT DID SHE.. he did. Its called, for your information, ungentlemanly conduct..you know, something nice men do not do  simples Erm .


The majority "get it", but not in the way you think. I'm not interested in somebody been thrown to the wolves for a stupid comment, just because he's daft enough to do a Sun exclusive

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Post by hawkeye Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:45 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:Kyrgios is undoubtedly uncouth and ill-mannered and got what he deserved in the way of a fine. It's the sexual reference that got him into trouble. A well-placed insult to a player's family member can be tolerated by the ATP  - for example, I don't recall JMDP being hauled up (either officially or on this forum) up for insulting Murray's mother. I think some people quite enjoyed it. Crudeness, base innuendo is another matter.


Laugh JMDP said "you and your mother are both the same". This was when Murray was ranting at the Umpire because JMDP had won the previous point with a well directed volley. They may very well be both the same but being accused of being just like your mother would hardly pass the Jeremy Kyle test of insults.

I suppose it's also worth pointing out that Federer once smashed a raquet and Nadal sometime is a little slow to serve chin

Also he is not in trouble for being uncouth and ill mannered (although he was) or making a sexual reference. It is a little more serious than that.  

According to this the maximum penalty Kyrgios could face is a three year ban

The 41st-ranked Kyrgios has been served with a notice of investigation, the ATP said in an e-mailed statement. If found guilty of aggravated behavior or “conduct contrary to the integrity of the game,” he could be fined $100,000 and be banned from ATP tournaments for as long as three years, according to the ATP rule book.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-14/kyrgios-faces-three-year-ban-100-000-fine-for-wawrinka-insults


Last edited by hawkeye on Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:31 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : to put JHM's comment in a quote)

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Post by banbrotam Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:47 am

Comparing this with the Murray / JMDP incident is, yes, ridiculous

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Post by JuliusHMarx Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:51 am

hawkeye wrote:Kyrgios is undoubtedly uncouth and ill-mannered and got what he deserved in the way of a fine. It's the sexual reference that got him into trouble. A well-placed insult to a player's family member can be tolerated by the ATP - for example, I don't recall JMDP being hauled up (either officially or on this forum) up for insulting Murray's mother. I think some people quite enjoyed it. Crudeness, base innuendo is another matter.

Laugh JMDP said "you and your mother are both the same". This was when Murray was ranting at the Umpire because JMDP had won the previous point with a well directed volley. They may very well be both the same but being accused of being just like your mother would hardly pass the Jeremy Kyle test of insults.

I suppose it's also worth pointing out that Federer once smashed a raquet and Nadal sometime is a little slow to serve chin

Also he is not in trouble for being uncouth and ill mannered (although he was) or making a sexual reference. It is a little more serious than that.  

According to this the maximum penalty Kyrgios could face is a three year ban

The 41st-ranked Kyrgios has been served with a notice of investigation, the ATP said in an e-mailed statement. If found guilty of aggravated behavior or “conduct contrary to the integrity of the game,” he could be fined $100,000 and be banned from ATP tournaments for as long as three years, according to the ATP rule book.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-14/kyrgios-faces-three-year-ban-100-000-fine-for-wawrinka-insults

So it's OK to bring a family member into it and we can all have a good laugh about it? You just have to be sure not to insult them too much. OK, hawkeye, I understand you.

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Post by hawkeye Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:59 am

banbrotam wrote:

My admiration fro Murray goes up on this one, his comments about giving the youngster a break is totally the correct on, which I'd wager that Novak agrees on. Simply because both these two have been misunderstood numerous times themselves and I'd argue that Nole still suffers for this

I like Stan, after Andy he's my next fave - but he should be helping Kygious to improve, like Hewitt is, not trying to bury him with a ban

This is what Djokovic and Nadal had to say about the incident

Top-ranked Novak Djokovic and nine-time French Open winner Rafael Nadal criticized Kyrgios for his comments.

“There’s no excuse for what he has said,” Djokovic told reporters Thursday in Montreal after he beat Jack Sock of the U.S. to move to the quarterfinals. “I understand that every player goes through certain tantrums, emotional ups and downs during the match. But it’s not, I would say, fair, and there’s no excuse of directing your tantrums to your opponent, especially to somebody that is not even there.”

Nadal, who was upset by Kyrgios in the fourth round of Wimbledon in 2014, said: “Age is not an excuse, it’s just about respect.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-14/kyrgios-faces-three-year-ban-100-000-fine-for-wawrinka-insults

There is no excuse for his behavior. Unless he is an idiot or to immature to be in control of his actions. If that's the case then he shouldn't be allowed on the tour. Did Murray defend him?

It is not Stans Job to be Kyrios's babysitter. He would be within his rights to seek a civil claim against him. So would his girlfriend and so would Kyrios's supposed friend.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:04 am

Civil claim based on what? Stating a fact?

People like Hawkeye are why we live in such an overtly PC world.

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Post by LuvSports! Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:11 am

And she's doping!

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:15 am

Im not saying it doesnt happen, or even it should happen, of course things get out just by accident.

Thats beyond the point, its not OK in HOW it came out, people cant gp "itll come out anyway soo I might as well publicly humiliate them on tv like a child, thats okay right?".

Thats why this is being punished,

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Post by hawkeye Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:17 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Civil claim based on what? Stating a fact?

People like Hawkeye are why we live in such an overtly PC world.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/liability-for-abusive-or-insulting-language.html

I'm not responsible for making laws Laugh

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Post by banbrotam Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:22 am

hawkeye wrote:
This is what Djokovic and Nadal had to say about the incident

Top-ranked Novak Djokovic and nine-time French Open winner Rafael Nadal criticized Kyrgios for his comments.

“There’s no excuse for what he has said,” Djokovic told reporters Thursday in Montreal after he beat Jack Sock of the U.S. to move to the quarterfinals. “I understand that every player goes through certain tantrums, emotional ups and downs during the match. But it’s not, I would say, fair, and there’s no excuse of directing your tantrums to your opponent, especially to somebody that is not even there.”

Nadal, who was upset by Kyrgios in the fourth round of Wimbledon in 2014, said: “Age is not an excuse, it’s just about respect.”.

Don't really see what point you're making. They are both merely saying what is correct. You and some others seem to misunderstand the capacity to punish fairly and move on for supporting what was said. Novak's comments are exactly what I thought he would say, i.e. he understands tantrams etc

hawkeye wrote:There is no excuse for his behavior. Unless he is an idiot or to immature to be in control of his actions. If that's the case then he shouldn't be allowed on the tour. Did Murray defend him?

Here's the Murray quote from the BBC......

British number one Andy Murray did not condone Kyrgios's actions but believes "people need to give him a little bit of a break".

"In other sports that sort of thing gets said more often than we imagine and in team sports especially," said Murray. "In tennis there are certain things you shouldn't do and that was one of them.

"Hopefully he learns from it. Nick is not all bad, he is a young guy growing up in the spotlight. There has been a lot of negativity towards him over the last few months and that isn't easy to deal with."

hawkeye wrote:It is not Stans Job to be Kyrios's babysitter. He would be within his rights to seek a civil claim against him. So would his girlfriend and so would Kyrios's supposed friend.

What next? Footballers suing their peers? Cricketers issuing writs to their opponents for sledging? Stan's been holier than thou on this. Of course he's perfectly entitled to be totally enraged - but a bigger person who actually thought about the future of the sport, would also offer an olive branch

The outright condemnation, where apparently we shouldn't see any more of Kyrgios is a reflection of society today and how horribly sanitised everything has to be

For instance a classic cricket sledging legendary incident has Fred Trueman glaring at a fellow fielder for dropping a catch. "Sorry" said the fielder. "I'm more sorry, that your mother didn't keep her legs closed and then she wouldn't have had you" quipped a miffed Trueman - so goes the tale.

My point is not condone what Fiery Fred said, but to point out that sport has people who by their very nature are close to the edge - occasionally it will spill over

There are all kinds of help the ATP could make Kyrgios have - instead we have this rather tired 'throw him to the lions' set of responses

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Post by banbrotam Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:26 am

hawkeye wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Civil claim based on what? Stating a fact?

People like Hawkeye are why we live in such an overtly PC world.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/liability-for-abusive-or-insulting-language.html

I'm not responsible for making laws Laugh


So when's Lendl suing Connors over the 1983 (or 2) "you're a chicken" comment

When's Mac suing Connors over his "my sons far more mature than you" comment at Wimby 81

(dates might be slightly out and the comments will not be direct quotes - but you get the gist!!)

Have we now entered a new world where the law is going to be used on the field of sport with the same severity as a speed camera?

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:29 am

I dont really see the defence here, apart from it being overly pc. This is not exactly his first offense is it? His behaviour would not be accepted in any workplace and hes been on a collision course for a while now, this was coming.

Hes not being thrown to the lions for the pc brigade, hes jumped in himself.

The ATP are not responsible for helping players grow up, the ATP owes them nothing, they owe the ATP and he needs to learn to have respect for that

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:31 am

I have to agree with HE sadly (eugh), if you want to see people fighting or slagging each other off, go watch Mr Kyle and his merry band of chavs. Tennis courts are for tennis, you can make a match fiery on that alone, Roger and Rafa taught us that years ago. This isnt a spill over, its a backhanded insult thats too far

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Post by JuliusHMarx Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:35 am

From that link :-
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-14/kyrgios-faces-three-year-ban-100-000-fine-for-wawrinka-insults

"Kyrgios apologized on his Facebook page Thursday, saying his comments “were made in the heat of the moment and were unacceptable on many levels. I take full responsibility for my actions and regret what happened.”"

So he acted like a d!ck (and probably is a bit of a d1ck), has been punished and has apologized.
Who on this forum, in their youth or beyond, has never acted like a d1ck, then regretted it and apologized? Is Kyrgios so very much different from any one of us? Is he a criminal? A psychopath? No.
What further needs to be said or done?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:35 am

hawkeye wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Civil claim based on what? Stating a fact?

People like Hawkeye are why we live in such an overtly PC world.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/liability-for-abusive-or-insulting-language.html

I'm not responsible for making laws Laugh

What a load of old crap, you can't sue someone for making a singular non offensive but potentially factually correct comment.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:36 am

temporary21 wrote:I have to agree with HE sadly (eugh), if you want to see people fighting or slagging each other off, go watch Mr Kyle and his merry band of chavs. Tennis courts are for tennis, you can make a match fiery on that alone, Roger and Rafa taught us that years ago. This isnt a spill over, its a backhanded insult thats too far

But I enjoyed Connors, McEnroe., Lendl et al - what does that make me?

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:39 am

I dont actually think it should be taken any further, the public humiliation hes getting is punishment enough.

Its not like hes made one mistake though, he has a general attitude problem and hes been asking for this for quite some time. He didnt apologise immediately afterwards, his statement was made but then he didnt seem to care the interview after. More importantly hes offered no apology to Kokkinakis or this lady. So he hasnt really apologised to the people he actually hurt

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:39 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:
temporary21 wrote:I have to agree with HE sadly (eugh), if you want to see people fighting or slagging each other off, go watch Mr Kyle and his merry band of chavs. Tennis courts are for tennis, you can make a match fiery on that alone, Roger and Rafa taught us that years ago. This isnt a spill over, its a backhanded insult thats too far

But I enjoyed Connors, McEnroe., Lendl et al - what does that make me?

Someone who doesn't take offence for the sake of it.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:41 am

temporary21 wrote:I dont actually think it should be taken any further, the public humiliation hes getting is punishment enough.

Its not like hes made one mistake though, he has a general attitude problem and hes been asking for this for quite some time. He didnt apologise immediately afterwards, his statement was made but then he didnt seem to care the interview after. More importantly hes offered no apology to Kokkinakis or this lady. So he hasnt really apologised to the people he actually hurt

Get a grip for christ sake, I doubt anyone has been hurt by this apart from the overly sensitive who have nothing to do with it, such an over-reaction is to be expected on here I suppose.

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Post by hawkeye Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:42 am

temporary21 wrote:I have to agree with HE sadly (eugh)
Erm

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:42 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:
temporary21 wrote:I have to agree with HE sadly (eugh), if you want to see people fighting or slagging each other off, go watch Mr Kyle and his merry band of chavs. Tennis courts are for tennis, you can make a match fiery on that alone, Roger and Rafa taught us that years ago. This isnt a spill over, its a backhanded insult thats too far

But I enjoyed Connors, McEnroe., Lendl et al - what does that make me?
I like them too, but their nastiness was reserved mostly for each other, Mac was the worst at going at someone else. More than that they had the guts to say it to eachother, I remember Connors waving Mac to the net to give him some.

I would say if that was the only reason you like them then maybe it wasnt tennis you liked, clearly though it was the tension of the match and the quality of the play that made that spice more poignant.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:44 am

Obviously it wasn't the only reason I liked them! At no point have I said I that I want players to act like Kyrgios did. But I don't want everything sanitised to the point of sterility either.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:44 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
temporary21 wrote:I dont actually think it should be taken any further, the public humiliation hes getting is punishment enough.

Its not like hes made one mistake though, he has a general attitude problem and hes been asking for this for quite some time. He didnt apologise immediately afterwards, his statement was made but then he didnt seem to care the interview after. More importantly hes offered no apology to Kokkinakis or this lady. So he hasnt really apologised to the people he actually hurt

Get a grip for christ sake, I doubt anyone has been hurt by this apart from the overly sensitive who have nothing to do with it, such an over-reaction is to be expected on here I suppose.
Try not to insult the forum eh? This is no reason to fight.

I often hear people asking for the old nostalgic days of "men are men" and letting it all out. The main problem is its just bacl and white to those people, either all the way back or its just pc coddling.

Is it conceivable, that somewhere in the middle is about right.

If that was Federers wife, I bet you this wouldnt be over sensitive, you go at the person, not their family.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:46 am

Let's be honest someones wife is a bit different to a 30 year olds 19 year old girlfriend, call me old fashioned but that's a bigger problem for me.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:46 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:Obviously it wasn't the only reason I liked them! At no point have I said I that I want players to act like Kyrgios did. But I don't want everything sanitised to the point of sterility either.

Right then, to reiterate, is it conceivable that somewhere in the middle is a good place to be?

There should always be a line, a cheap shot like his isnt funny, spicy, or welcome.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:47 am

temporary21 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
temporary21 wrote:I dont actually think it should be taken any further, the public humiliation hes getting is punishment enough.

Its not like hes made one mistake though, he has a general attitude problem and hes been asking for this for quite some time. He didnt apologise immediately afterwards, his statement was made but then he didnt seem to care the interview after. More importantly hes offered no apology to Kokkinakis or this lady. So he hasnt really apologised to the people he actually hurt

Get a grip for christ sake, I doubt anyone has been hurt by this apart from the overly sensitive who have nothing to do with it, such an over-reaction is to be expected on here I suppose.
Try not to insult the forum eh? This is no reason to fight.

I often hear people asking for the old nostalgic days of "men are men" and letting it all out. The main problem is its just bacl and white to those people, either all the way back or its just pc coddling.

Is it conceivable, that somewhere in the middle is about right.

If that was Federers wife, I bet you this wouldnt be over sensitive, you go at the person, not their family.

Unless you're JMDP, then some posters have a laugh about it Wink

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:47 am

What business is that of yours? Or mine? Thats why this is over the line, because people are now judging her with no clue to the circumstance. That is old fashioned, who gives a cr*p what they do if it doesnt hurt anyone.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:49 am

So why do you care what Kyrgios says when ultimately it's hurting nobody, if you can be offended by his comments then surely I can be offended by Wawrinka's morality?

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Post by hawkeye Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:50 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Get a grip for christ sake, I doubt anyone has been hurt by this apart from the overly sensitive who have nothing to do with it, such an over-reaction is to be expected on here I suppose.

Kyrgios broke a rule that carries a maximum penalty of a 3 year ban from the ATP tour. The ATP are at present considering his case. IMO that is pretty serious.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:53 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:So why do you care what Kyrgios says when ultimately it's hurting nobody, if you can be offended by his comments then surely I can be offended by Wawrinka's morality?
But is HAS hurt someone, its hurt that womans reputation which you now see fit to slag off just because she went out with a legal younger guy. This is exactly why people care.

Her circumstance hurts nobody, unless theres infidelity involved, again though thats noones business, and woudlnt have been if not for that prat.

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Post by hawkeye Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:54 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Let's be honest someones wife is a bit different to a 30 year olds 19 year old girlfriend, call me old fashioned but that's a bigger problem for me.

Erm

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:54 am

hawkeye wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Get a grip for christ sake, I doubt anyone has been hurt by this apart from the overly sensitive who have nothing to do with it, such an over-reaction is to be expected on here I suppose.

Kyrgios broke a rule that carries a maximum penalty of a 3 year ban from the ATP tour. The ATP are at present considering his case. IMO that is pretty serious.
To get back to topic. I must say that would be cruelly harsh. Hes gone over the line but everyone deserves a second chance. Juts give him a final warning.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:55 am

Let's get things straight, this situation has hurt nobody, it is being used an excuse to fake faux insult for the sake of being seen as PC, nothing more than that.

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Post by socal1976 Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:57 am

Kyrgios' comment is silly and offensive. I think a fine is right because tennis is a sport with a set of etiquette. It is a club sport, the fans are different than many other types of sports fans. That is what I like about the sport. And in between competitors there is a basic unwritten code of etiquette. It is part of the game if you don't understand it the fans, players, and officials do and have away of making you pay for it.

More upsetting for me really is the reflection it shows of Kyrgios' maturity and intellect. The players who get to number one in tennis are focused, disciplined, and generally more intelligent than your average bee. Tennis in particular as a very technical, physical, and individual sport favors the success of those that have brains. Nick's insult was so silly and reflects real poor judgement, immaturity, and a low IQ. These types of dumb tennis players never maximize their talent as tennis at that level is so much about how you manage your game and career without a coach or teammates to rely on. So far Nick hasn't demonstrated that he has it between the ears to be a true great in this game. Everyone at this level is a gifted athlete who can hit the crap out of the ball it is the guy who has it between the ears and in terms of heart that usually gets to the top and becomes a champion.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:57 am

In that case, keep your views of that woman to yourself, otherwise youre proving our point exactly. What legal relationships she has are none of your business mate.

I thought people admired Federer for the way he conducts himself, the game owes it status to that, why the sudden flip to wanting Jeremy Kyle style sideshows?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:01 am

What comments factual comments Kyrgios are equally none of your business unless you deliberately make them so, we can all be offended by anything we want.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:02 am

Anyway I tell people are getting close to flustered so im gonna tap out of this one.

Just bear in mind that Kokkinakis' and the ladies business is their own, its legal and doesnt hurt anybody, please keep this on Nick and what he said or you might land us in hot water

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Post by socal1976 Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:05 am

I mean the legality is not an issue for me, it just us shows a real moron for thinking it is funny to say it and the game has a right to punish stupid behavior that damages their brand. Who cares if it is legal, no one is talking about jailing him and I don't think there are serious discussions of suing him either. He just is a dumbass for even thinking it is a funny thing to say.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:20 am

socal1976 wrote:I mean the legality is not an issue for me, it just us shows a real moron for thinking it is funny to say it and the game has a right to punish stupid behavior that damages their brand. Who cares if it is legal, no one is talking about jailing him and I don't think there are serious discussions of suing him either. He just is a dumbass for even thinking it is a funny thing to say.
I suppose in THEORY you could sue for defamation but theres no chance of that. That certainly would be an over reaction.

The ATP has though hinged a lot of its recent standing as a major world sport on the behaviour and high standards sets by its biggest players. Look at how big the Stefan Edberg award is, and all the charities, foundations its top players and themselves do all the time.

Its no surprise then that they want nothing to do with old fashioned 1970's type behaviour, it costs them sponsors and money unless they act on it. STILL think a suspension would be over the top

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Post by LuvSports! Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:49 am

Surely you can't sue for defamation?
One it isn't written down (libellous) and two it doesn't fall under slander (very hard to prove anyway).


Last edited by LuvSports! on Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:37 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:21 am

LuvSports! wrote:You can't sue for defamation.
One it isn't written down (libellous) and two it doesn't fall under slander (very hard to prove anyway).

If its on camera then its definitely applicable.

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Post by YvonneT Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:34 am

hawkeye wrote:So why was Kyrgios not penalized? If the Umpire didn't hear at the time penalties can be given retrospectively when evidence is discovered. My guess is that the ATP is so worried about selling the game post FeDal they are will even stoop to selling it as a circus Kyrgios is probably being paid more for this sort of behavior (in endorsements) than he is for his tennis skills
On this point in your first post, I guess the ATP are not exactly worried but certainly looking to make sure that there will be stars that capture the public's attention after Federer and Nadal (.... and Djokovic) are gone - and Kyrgios did seem to be one of those. He had some big eye-catching wins at a young age, impressive slam performances, the swagger to really take on the top players and was attracting a new, younger audience to the sport. All good things. Unfortunately, he's decided to behave like a crass idiot. That's a shame for the sport really.

I don't think his apology is all that sincere (based on his family's defence of his behaviour) and I think something more than the fine already imposed is required to really make a difference to him - a short ban or bigger fine. Anything longer than Cilic's ban for a doping offence would seem strangely disproportionate to me. And I don't agree with the "deserves a second chance" only because after more than one incident at Wimbledon (the tanking and the abusive words to an official) he's already past that.

I know that Murray was not defending the specific behaviour, but I think now's the time for him to stop defending him. But Kyrgios does need some guidance from somewhere to sort himself out (since it's clearly not going to come from his family).

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Post by socal1976 Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:07 am

temporary21 wrote:
socal1976 wrote:I mean the legality is not an issue for me, it just us shows a real moron for thinking it is funny to say it and the game has a right to punish stupid behavior that damages their brand. Who cares if it is legal, no one is talking about jailing him and I don't think there are serious discussions of suing him either. He just is a dumbass for even thinking it is a funny thing to say.
I suppose in THEORY you could sue for defamation but theres no chance of that. That certainly would be an over reaction.

The ATP has though hinged a lot of its recent standing as a major world sport on the behaviour and high standards sets by its biggest players. Look at how big the Stefan Edberg award is, and all the charities, foundations its top players and themselves do all the time.

Its no surprise then that they want nothing to do with old fashioned 1970's type behaviour, it costs them sponsors and money unless they act on it. STILL think a suspension would be over the top

Yeah but under common law basically if something is true you can't sue for defamation there has to be a falsity. That is my law school training finally paying off on those huge tuition bills. The fact of the matter is that this is tennis, it isn't football, it isn't ultimate fighting championship. The fans are upper middle class or higher, educated, and generally don't like this type of behavior. Therefore since the ATP is a business it has a financial right to protect its image and brand. This is not an actionable matter either civilly or criminally. It just in my mind shows that mentally Kyrgios has a long way to go before he can be a great champion in this game. It doesn't mean he has to be a nice guy, Connors wasn't, Gonzalez wasn't; but how silly this comment was does show a lack of maturity and intelligence. And in a game like tennis where you are out there on island and competing individually against the best this lack of IQ is going to hamper him. I mean he is 20 or 21 this is like a comment I would expect to hear from a 15 year old. He has all the physical tools but that doesn't mean anything if he can't think his way out of wet paper bag. Look at all the past number 1s and they may have been jerks but they were at least smart, particularly in a game like tennis. I honestly don't think you can be a great tennis player without some level of intelligence that dictates everything from training, scheduling, coaching decisions, business decisions, and even down to shot selection and match strategy.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:23 am

Navratilova, an 18-time grand slam champion, tweeted: "There needs to be more than a fine."

She added: "There is no place for that behaviour."

The ATP may yet suspend Kyrgios from its events.


Go for it Martina. It is ridiculous to  compare  Kyrigos behaviour to that of  Connors, Nastase and McEnroe  none of them stooped to his level however bad their behaviour was on court .Martina never spoke out against them
Johnny Mc was banned for far less than this'

Again I state that this unruly lout  is not bigger than the sport which we and all the great professionals, both past and present,  have such regard His gutter talk has no place in the sport

Stacey Allaster, chairman and chief executive of the WTA, said: "The statement made by Nick Kyrgios is crude and unacceptable.

"I commend the ATP on assessing the on-site maximum fine and urge there to be further sanctions in accordance with their process."

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Post by Haddie-nuff Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:47 am

For those who think Kyrigos needs to be helped .. !! chin Headscratch

http://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/nick-kyrgios-brother-dumped-by-sydney-radio-station/story-fndkzym4-1227483073975

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Post by break_in_the_fifth Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:14 am

What about Kokkinakis' "ruined reputation"?

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