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Who will make it out of the fourth quarter?

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Total Votes : 10
 
Poll closed

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Post by YvonneT Mon 17 Aug 2015, 1:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

Full draw: http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2015/422/mds.pdf

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Post by Guest Fri 21 Aug 2015, 3:33 pm

hawkeye wrote:
There is a reason why many love this match up

Indeed. The fanfare is misguided.

People love the brand, rather than the quality of the product.

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Post by hawkeye Fri 21 Aug 2015, 3:33 pm

banbrotam wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
banbrotam wrote: From what I've seen of Djokovic and Murray they are doing what they are best at... putting the ball in play and waiting for other players to self destruct


Apart from if you're Karlovic, isn't that the objective of the game, i.e. a mental battle? Aren't you also being a little bit disrespectful to Andy and Novak?

I see them both as reactive players. Their "strategy" is to hit every ball back.  Neither take control of a point as evidenced when they play each other. They are both very good at it but Djojovic is the more aggressive. Murray is limited in his ability to take control of a rally because he lacks a controlling forehand. With Djokovic I'm not sure. It may just be the way he likes to play. Of course this doesn't mean they are not able to hit winners.

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Post by hawkeye Fri 21 Aug 2015, 3:44 pm

HM Murdock wrote:
hawkeye wrote:They tend to bring out the best in each other.
Really? We see Federer's best tennis when he plays Rafa?

Federer can look good when he isn't challenge. But he hardly has to bring out his best tennis to win. He certainly has to bring out his best when he plays Rafa.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

People love the brand, rather than the quality of the product.

You've lost me there. I can't comprehend how a tennis fan can't love the quality of the product. I can understand why some might not like some of the results.

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Post by HM Murdock Fri 21 Aug 2015, 3:46 pm

hawkeye wrote:Federer can look good when he isn't challenge. But he hardly has to bring out his best tennis to win. He certainly has to bring out his best when he plays Rafa.
Federer says he feels like he has to change everything when he plays Rafa.

Hardly a formula for producing one's best tennis.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Fri 21 Aug 2015, 3:52 pm

hawkeye wrote:
banbrotam wrote:
hawkeye wrote:
banbrotam wrote: From what I've seen of Djokovic and Murray they are doing what they are best at... putting the ball in play and waiting for other players to self destruct


Apart from if you're Karlovic, isn't that the objective of the game, i.e. a mental battle? Aren't you also being a little bit disrespectful to Andy and Novak?

I see them both as reactive players. Their "strategy" is to hit every ball back.  Neither take control of a point as evidenced when they play each other. They are both very good at it but Djojovic is the more aggressive. Murray is limited in his ability to take control of a rally because he lacks a controlling forehand. With Djokovic I'm not sure. It may just be the way he likes to play. Of course this doesn't mean they are not able to hit winners.

Sounds very similar to Djoko-Rafa match. Didn't their AO final take over 6 hours? Surely the 50 shot rallies that people rave about are because neither player can take control of the point. I see Rafa as similar in approach i.e. hit every ball back, especially vs Federer, as evidenced by that passage from his auto-biography where he outlines his approach to playing Federer - hit every ball to his backhand until he misses.

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Post by Guest Fri 21 Aug 2015, 3:52 pm

hawkeye wrote:
HM Murdock wrote:
hawkeye wrote:They tend to bring out the best in each other.
Really? We see Federer's best tennis when he plays Rafa?

Federer can look good when he isn't challenge. But he hardly has to bring out his best tennis to win. He certainly has to bring out his best when he plays Rafa.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

People love the brand, rather than the quality of the product.

You've lost me there. I can't comprehend how a tennis fan can't love the quality of the product. I can understand why some might not like some of the results.

Simply one looks at both players achievements and appeal and believe that it is box office.

The quality of matches however, are not a reflection of the above.

It's Gold Plated Wink

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Post by JuliusHMarx Fri 21 Aug 2015, 3:59 pm

hawkeye wrote:I can't comprehend how a tennis fan can't love the quality of the product.

Surely you of all people can comprehend it. Djoko and Murray are two of the best players of the last 10 years and Djoko is probably in the top 10 of all time. Yet you don't love the quality of their product. So perhaps you are actually best placed to explain why tennis fans can't love the quality of the product.

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Post by hawkeye Fri 21 Aug 2015, 4:02 pm

HM Murdock wrote:
hawkeye wrote:Federer can look good when he isn't challenge. But he hardly has to bring out his best tennis to win. He certainly has to bring out his best when he plays Rafa.
Federer says he feels like he has to change everything when he plays Rafa.

Hardly a formula for producing one's best tennis.

Shocked Federer refuses to change anything when he plays Rafa. Well apart from the tricky tactic of making Rafa serve first if he wins the toss Wink

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Post by hawkeye Fri 21 Aug 2015, 4:17 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
hawkeye wrote:I can't comprehend how a tennis fan can't love the quality of the product.

Surely you of all people can comprehend it. Djoko and Murray are two of the best players of the last 10 years and Djoko is probably in the top 10 of all time. Yet you don't love the quality of their product. So perhaps you are actually best placed to explain why tennis fans can't love the quality of the product.

I didn't know that anyone like watching Djokovic play Murray Headscratch

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Fri 21 Aug 2015, 4:20 pm

Fedal matches at their best started from 2005 right up to AO2009, and then some good ones at WTF2010, FO2011,AO2012,Cincy 2013, certainly more than 4 or 5 matches.

Rafa and Fed have to play their best tennis in order to beat each other. Its part and parcel of the game that you play your best and try to take advantage of your opponent's weaknesses which is what Rafa is doing to Fed. Its up to Fed to change things up and also play to Rafa's weaknesses.

Fed said he has to change to play Rafa because Rafa is a lefty, i dont see Fed playing worse just because hes playing a lefty. He has good H2H vs any other lefty. Its just that Rafa is a special player who's hard to beat, whether youre lefty or righty.

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Post by LuvSports! Fri 21 Aug 2015, 4:23 pm

Stan is hitting bombs but Djoko's defending already is insane. V defensive start from him but is getting into Stan's games ealry.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Fri 21 Aug 2015, 4:23 pm

hawkeye wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
hawkeye wrote:I can't comprehend how a tennis fan can't love the quality of the product.

Surely you of all people can comprehend it. Djoko and Murray are two of the best players of the last 10 years and Djoko is probably in the top 10 of all time. Yet you don't love the quality of their product. So perhaps you are actually best placed to explain why tennis fans can't love the quality of the product.

I didn't know that anyone like watching Djokovic play Murray Headscratch

Don't be silly, of course they do.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Fri 21 Aug 2015, 4:25 pm

Its the contrast of styles that makes Fedal interesting. Fed vs Novak comes in second for me after Fedal, then Rafa/Novak. Stan vs Novak these days is good to watch too, as Stan when at his best is awesome, even better than Delpo, hitting with pace and power from both wings.

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Post by hawkeye Fri 21 Aug 2015, 4:39 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Its the contrast of styles that makes Fedal interesting.  Fed vs Novak comes in second for me after Fedal, then Rafa/Novak. Stan vs Novak these days is good to watch too, as Stan when at his best is awesome, even better than Delpo, hitting with pace and power from both wings.

Yes exactly. But it also because they are both so good. I was always a little disappointed watching Fed/Novak matches because on paper they should have been so much better than they were. But their 2011 FO semi more than made up for some of their previous damp squids. One of my very favorite matches Very Happy Now I think Fed is a little bit old for all the running about involved in playing Djokovic unless the matches are quick and/or on a fast court. Cincy is ideal for Federer if they meet up. But quick matches on fast courts are hardly the recipe for scintillating memorable tennis.

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Post by Guest Fri 21 Aug 2015, 4:47 pm

Nah.

Key word is 'was'

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Fri 21 Aug 2015, 4:57 pm

Aren't all the matches classified as 'was' or 'were', with may be Stan vs Novak in present tense?

Fed vs Novak classics was also a thing of the past IMO. Fed can no longer produce something like FO2011 vs Novak.

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Post by Guest Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:04 pm

Well yes. The Federer/Djokovic rivalry petered out after Wimbledon 2014. 

I'd have to say that Nadal/Federer was done by 2009. 

You'd be hard pushed to find a rivalry that kept the same quality and standard for a long period of time.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:08 pm

The in thing now is Novak vs Stan.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:12 pm

Sorry not even Wimbledon 2014, when clearly Novak had the upper hand and could win in four but Fed fought to stretch it to five sets. FO2011 was different because both played well but Fed was better and won. I really didn't see much up and down in their level in that FO2011 match.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:17 pm

The AO 2012 match may not be a classic between Fed and Rafa but there were good points and amazing shots hit by both. They were playing at their respective best or near best level of that time.

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Post by LuvSports! Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:21 pm

Only a slam rivalry with Stan and Novak. I guess that is better.

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Post by temporary21 Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:23 pm

The problem with enjoying rivalries is your enjoyment is very dependent on who wins a lot. I cant imagine Fed fans enjoyed many matches after Fo 11 or Wimby 12, especially that us open 11 match, whihc was probably their closest and most dramatic, nor many of the fedal match ups.

The best ones are close rivalries that are neutral, Fedal was very close up to 2009 but niether have sparkled at the same time since, Murray Nadal can be good but is rarer than a blue elephant, Novak Murray is pretty tense... unless you dont like their counter style of course

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:32 pm

Murray vs Novak was good from end 2008 to 2012. The Rome 2011 match esp was good, AO2012 as well. When the H2h started to turn lopsided again in Novak's favor thats where it stopped being a good rivalry.

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Post by lags72 Fri 21 Aug 2015, 5:59 pm

hawkeye wrote:

I didn't know that anyone like watching Djokovic play Murray Headscratch

I was in Oz for this year's Aussie Open. Went to Melbourne Park itself on four days during the tourney to see some live action. And then when Djokovic & Murray made it through to the Final, I just knew I would be able to pick up a ticket  for next to nothing (maybe gratis even .....?) - simply because, as you say HE, nobody likes watching them play.

Imagine my surprise when I found myself having to make do with a big TV screen at the home of my hosts, and seeing all those stadium seats filled to capacity ...... Shocked

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:07 pm

Slam final tickets are usually sold out well before the final. I dont think anyone would want to skip attending the final when the tickets are so costly.

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Post by lags72 Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:26 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Slam final tickets are usually sold out well before the final.  I dont think anyone would want to skip attending the final when the tickets are so costly.

Oh sure. We all know how the ticketing works at the Slams. But you can't help sympathise with all those tennis fans who were forced to endure watching two of the world's very best players. Two players who - hawkeye is convinced - nobody likes watching.......

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Post by temporary21 Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:27 pm

I for one hated the Montreal masters, so much that I was on the edge of my seat in boredom.
Were spoilt, a great rivalry between two different styles of players has been followed by one between two similar ones

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Post by Jahu Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:40 pm

Come on Dolgo, crush him
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Post by Guest Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:42 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Sorry not even Wimbledon 2014, when clearly Novak had the upper hand and could win in four but Fed fought to stretch it to five sets. FO2011 was different because both played well but Fed was better and won.  I really didn't see much up and down in their level in that FO2011 match.  

I disagree there. The reason I rate that match is because Feds level was high given the stage of his career especially in a Slam final. Take this years final and you can see a big clear difference.

But again my point remains. It was a small window for that rivalry. 

The key ingredients to a good rivalry is contrasts in gameplay but also personality. That's why Borg/Mac and Becker/Edberg are held in quite high regard because of contrasts all around. Those rivalries again short lived and part of its legacy is making you wish there was more. Fedal has been a bit too nicely nice and doesn't have me wanting more of them.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:56 pm

I enjoy watching Dolgo when hes playing like this. He can run all over the place and hitting winners from anywhere. He serves and hits so quickly his opponent just feels so rushed! Hopefully he can play like this against Novak tomorrow.

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Post by Henman Bill Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:57 pm

AO 12 not one of their great matches for me. It was a period where the matches tended to have Federer go off like a train, playing great tennis at the start. At worst he would fail to see out the first set and then lose in straights, more likely he would get say a set and a break up before there was this fairly predictable turn to Nadal after which it became kind of inevitable.

The AO 09 match was better for me, both in overall quality and the fact that it was so unsure who would win, and see-sawed from one to the other, sets 2 to 4 are as good as it gets. After Nadal won that match, taking three consecutive slam finals on all surfaces, he won the rivalry to an extent, and after that quite a few of the matches were quite predictable, a pattern was emerging, Federer's occassionally wins not withstanding.

It's true about Rafa avoiding Federer though, when playing badly he often seems to lose in the round before! As a result Federer has probably only won about 30% of the head to head when it ought to have been at least, I don't know, 40%.

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Post by Henman Bill Fri 21 Aug 2015, 6:59 pm

rats just ran to the TV after seeing someone mention Dolgopolov, just got there too late. Maybe tomorrow. Have finished work for the day so up for whatever's next.

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Post by LuvSports! Fri 21 Aug 2015, 7:14 pm

Dressage.

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Post by lags72 Fri 21 Aug 2015, 7:29 pm

So then, who picks Reeshard to get past a battle-hardened Andy later .....?

And Deliciano, feeling pretty good after victory number four over Rafa .....must surely be ready to take his very first over Fed ....? chin

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Post by lags72 Fri 21 Aug 2015, 7:35 pm

Jahu wrote:Come on Dolgo, crush him

Time you had a new catchphrase Jahu Cincinnati Masters - Page 7 1347041234

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Post by Guest Fri 21 Aug 2015, 7:52 pm

lags72 wrote:
Jahu wrote:Come on Dolgo, crush him

Time you had a new catchphrase Jahu Cincinnati Masters - Page 7 1347041234

Says the man calling someone Deliciano!! Hug

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Post by lags72 Fri 21 Aug 2015, 8:02 pm

You got me there lk !!!

But come on .....that's maybe the second time from me in about 12 months or so.

Jahu wants some guy or other to 'crush' some guy or other in every freakin tourney ..... Laugh

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Post by Guest Fri 21 Aug 2015, 8:08 pm

Remember his intelligence multiplies when he is plugged into a female!

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Post by lags72 Fri 21 Aug 2015, 8:18 pm

I have noticed.

Complete, rational sentences begin to appear.

Think I also saw an entire paragraph on one occasion ...... Wink

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Post by HM Murdock Fri 21 Aug 2015, 8:25 pm

Dolgopolov in a Masters semi!

Quite an opportunity for him.

He had Novak in all sorts of trouble in Miami, so it wouldn't be a huge surprise if he beat him on this surface.

And then it's just one match for a maiden Masters title.

Not saying he's the favourite but he strikes me as the kind of player who, if he reaches the later stages of a tournament, is capable of a couple of great performances.

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Post by temporary21 Fri 21 Aug 2015, 8:54 pm

Gasquet over Murray is a distinct chance, but I wonder if Muzz will have extra motivation so he can try another go at Federer who will almost inevitably roll over Mr delicious

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Post by Guest Fri 21 Aug 2015, 9:23 pm

This is the match for Gasquet right here. Get broken here and it's one way from here on out.

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Post by Guest Fri 21 Aug 2015, 9:31 pm

Well Gassy turned that around. Massive 12 minute game on serve at 3-4 and takes the set 6-4.

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Post by temporary21 Fri 21 Aug 2015, 10:16 pm

Gasquet looks tanked out

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Post by Born Slippy Fri 21 Aug 2015, 11:00 pm

Murray looks absolutely exhausted. Still comfortably too good for Gasquet when it mattered in the 3rd. The 15-15 point in the last game summed up Gasquet's career for me. Murray hit a 2nd serve that crept over the net, Gasquet took it early on the slice and ran backwards away from the net - unsurprisingly then losing the rally.

Murray has no shot against Fed. He was barely moving in that match. Great achievement for him to make the SF though.

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Post by Guest Fri 21 Aug 2015, 11:36 pm

Wasn't the best match in the world. 

An ugly performance by both. Not sure what Gasquet was thinking trying to rally all the time! His FH at times is pathetic.

Be amazed if Murray punches through to the final.

Federer looking the better out of the remaining players. See if he can retain the title.

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Post by summerblues Sat 22 Aug 2015, 12:28 am

Lopez could win this tournament by possibly consecutively beating Rafa, Roger, Andy and Novak. Do we think he has a shot?

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Post by lags72 Sat 22 Aug 2015, 12:52 am

I think that's a little like saying whoever wins the Aussie Open each year has a shot at completing the calendar Grand Slam .....

in other words ......possible but unlikely.

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Post by YvonneT Sat 22 Aug 2015, 1:05 am

summerblues wrote:Lopez could win this tournament by possibly consecutively beating Rafa, Roger, Andy and Novak.  Do we think he has a shot?
What constitutes a shot? The H2H is 0-11 Roger, 0-10 Andy and 0-5 Novak. That would be the most impressive Masters win ever!
As I type, 2 break points for Lopez go by, then he's broken. Bye Feli!

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Post by summerblues Sat 22 Aug 2015, 1:14 am

It was not to be. Three of the big 4 yet again in the SF.

What was it with Roger half-volleying on the second serve return?

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