Research into the use of the time violation rule - NEW petition expessing concern about it's inconsistant use

First topic message reminder :

I've timed a bit of the Rafa match. Have to say that's as quick as I've seen him play.

I timed the two service games prior to the TV (at 2-1 and 3-2) and he was within 25 seconds on every point.

In the TV game I broadly agree with HE's timings. He gets the warning at bang on 25 seconds. I agree that it is very odd that he gets it on that point.

I then timed the final game. Notably there was no attempt to speed up with Rafa going over time on more or less every point. On the matchpoint he takes 32 seconds to prepare himself - doesn't lose his 1st serve.

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hawkeye wrote:

hawkeye wrote:I thought I'd group some of Nadal's recent time violations in one place. I only started keeping a record after the Nadal Verdasco match in Miami so I'm not sure about how many he received before then. Although I do know about the Fognini Rio semi Finals where he was given two in one game when serving at 6-2, 2-3. He was broken and was also broken mentally by the time violations and went on to lose the match after being in complete control.

hawkeye wrote:

Miami 2015
Nadal against Versdasco. Nadal serving in the first set at 4-5 on brake/set point. He receives a time violation and loses the set

Monte Carlo 2015
Nadal against Isner. 2nd set Nadal serving at 4-4, 30-40. Isner asks the Umpire to give Nadal a time violation and the Umpire obliges. Nadal loses his serve. Isner holds for the set
Nadal against Ferrer. 1st set Nadal serving 3-3, 30-30 time violation. 2nd set Nadal serving at 3-3, 30-30 time violation Nadal lost his serve. 3rd set Nadal serving at 3-2, 30-40 time violation Nadal went on to win his serve.

Barcelona
Nadal against Almagro. Nadal got a first time violation early in the first set. 2nd set Nadal serving for the match 40-40. Almagro asked the Umpire to give Nadal a time violation and the Umpire obliged.

This is from Madrid

hawkeye wrote:Catching up with the Nadal/Dimitrov match.

Nadal serving at 1-1, 30-40 was issued with a time violation 27 seconds after the ball went out of play. He was broken.

Later in the match Nadal was serving 3-3, 15-0 when Dimitrov broke his raquet. He delayed play by 46 seconds. Nadal served a double fault afterwards. (The time violation rule is also meant to be applied if the receiver delays play).

This is from Rome

hawkeye wrote:Watching the Isner/Nadal match. Isner serving at 4-4, 30-40 (break point) took 32 seconds with no time violation. Quite an achievement to take so long when all he had to do was shuffle a few feet to the side. Nadal serving for the match at 5-4, 15-30 (not a break point but about as near as Isner got to one) was given a time violation at 29 seconds

Another from Rome

hawkeye wrote:

Nadal serving at 6-7, 1-1, 30-40 (break point) was given a time violation at 31 seconds. This was a pivotal part of the match as Wawrinka had all the momentum having won the first set on a tie break and Nadal would have been wobbling. He was given a huge shove with the targeted time violation. During that game he took 33, 25, 22, 26, 22, 26, 31 (break point/time violation), 23, 30 (break point/broken) seconds between points. A commentator said "It would be interesting to see how often Nadal gets a time violation on break point. Huh! But never in a tie break".

That's 8 matches were Nadal has been given a time violation on a crucial point.

French Open 4th round Nadal v Sock. Nadal serving for the match 6-3, 6-1, 5-4, 30-40 time violation loss of first serve. Lost serve and subsequently the set. (I don't know at what point Nadal received the first tv?)

That's 9 matches were Nadal has been given a tv on a crucial point

French Open quarter finals Nadal v Djokovic. Nadal serving to stay in the first set. 4-5, 40-40 time violation given. This is the one that made John McEnroe feel "sick to his stomach".

Stuttgart quarter finals Nadal v Tomic. Nadal serving for the first 5-4, Ad Tomic (break point) time violation given at 28 seconds. It was given as Nadal was taking his arm back to serve.

11 matches (and counting) were Nadal has recieved a tv on a crucial point.[/quote]

Queens 2nd round. Nadal serving at 3-6, 7-6, 4-3 against Dolgopolov. He was given a time violation at 26 second 30-40 break point. During this game he took 25, 28, 28, 28, 26 (tv break point), 32 (Dolgopolov challenged), 27 seconds between points. Nadal was broken and went on to lose the match. I timed that the violation was given at 26 seconds but perhaps I was being generous as others reported that the tv was given at 25 seconds.

12 matches and counting...[/quote]

Hamburg 1st round against Verdasco. Nadal serving in the first game of the 2nd set having lost the first set 3-6. He was given a tv on the 3rd deuce of a long hard fought game. Nadal managed to hold onto that game and won the match.

13 matches and counting

hawkeye wrote:The petition expressing concern about the time violation rule was sent to Chris Kermode (president of the ATP) and others I believe.

This was his reply

Thank you for your correspondence related to the Time Violation rule on the ATP world tour.

While we appreciate your concerns, we also believe we have a responsibility to ensure that the pace of play at ATP events is continuous in order to protect against excessive dead time during matches. This is a matter which has been deteriorating progressively over the past decade, and one which the ATP executive management, Board of directors, as well as the ATP player Council deemed necessary to address.

ATP World Tour chair umpires, when possible, use many tools during a match to control the pace of play-issuing a time violation is just one and is usually the last step after other means have failed. While we understand that it may not be to the liking of all fans, our data tells us that the stricter enforcement of the Time Violation rule has significantly improved the pace of play since it's implementation at the beginning of 2013.

The rule is intended to be applied under the best judgement of the umpire. Please rest assured that this is an area that the ATP officiating compartment continues to prioritise - ultimately we are striving for consistency in the enforcement of the rule and within the spirit of the rule

-----

A complete fob off!

Or a sensible, reasoned response, depending who your favourite player is.

Fob off as in a fob key? Had one of those back at uni. My fob fobbed off and had to pay £25 to replace it. 
Long story short I took a 5/1 bet (stuck a fiver on it) for my beloved LUFC to beat Arsenal in the FA cup. 
I'm down £30 and Leeds lost 3-1. Nightmare. 

Never beat on your team bla bla bla yackity taz's dad smackity.

Well that is an insightful contribution

Glad you enjoyed it Haddie. 
I shall be sure to regale you with other insightful contributions, as you put it yourself.

I implore you do not go to any further trouble there is enough BS on this thread already

Now that is just mean you big bully.

^ Just trouble making. Rude and nasty too.

Luv-vituperative-sports!

Nadal got another time violation in his 3rd round Cincinnati match against Lopez.

In the first set Nadal was serving at 3-1, Ad Lopez. He was given a time violation and Lopez broke back.

Did anyone else get one in Cincinnati. Maybe Djokovic or Murray in one of their long matches? Or was this the only one?

Gasquet.

LuvSports! wrote:Gasquet.

Did he. When?

vs Murray in the set he lost 6-1 i think.

LuvSports! wrote:vs Murray in the set he lost 6-1 i think.

I wonder how many times Gasquet's opponent went over 25 seconds in that match considering how tired he was? So two known time violations. Very odd!

This is where your 'research' could come to the fort!

Theres no real point. The game he got done for he was averaging 29 seconds between points, harsh but its at least consistent with everything else.
Nothings changed and theres been enough examples for the relevant points being made.

I move for a motion to have this thread removed.

Can I get a second on that motion??

Sorry LK, it beings me far to much amusement!!

It's past that JJ!!

We need that dead horse beating icon!

Yes why not the vultures have had all the meat of Rafa's bones he is not such a good target any more .. fun over

Exactly.

Most want to move on from it.

Don't see it being 'sticky' worthy.

Why do you want it removed?

Its way more active than the GOAT thread

Its a sticky, so does not clutter the main threads

Its still an active discussion in tennis

You not liking whats being said is not a good reason to completely remove it. We put it here so it wasnt cluttering other threads, just ignore it, other people might want to use it.

When the GOAT thread has more responses?

Let's be honest it is just a platform for one poster to indulge themselves with.

Mutton dressed as Lamb sadly.

So's the GOAT thread though lk.

In the end I hate both these stickys, as do the other mods, both far too based on player bias or putting down another.

We do understand though we cant just tell people to not talk about it, we put them both here because they leaked into other threads like bad radiation. Just do what we all do and ignore them both.

Jack Sock got a TV right before he fainted (I think)

(Cue outrage )

its

Dare

Kvitova given a TV at 40-40 on her serve leading 5-2 in the set. She faced break points later on in the deuce.

I have referred it to the big point committee to see if it qualifies as a big point. Will get back to you.

Now she's struggling to close it out. Big point committee agrees

Well there is blame being apportioned to mono.

Oh no this is like a time capsule now.

From Rafa's interview after beatin Zverev in Indian Wells

Q. In the final set there was a fabulous point. The crowd yelled. He got a time violation warning. In the past, you said that with our best points in tennis, the crowd is yelling, there should not be time violation warnings. Do you think chair umpire should have a rule where they can put extra time in after long points and when the crowd is yelling?
RAFAEL NADAL: You like this sport?

Q. I love it.
RAFAEL NADAL: Me too. So the real thing is I don't remember -- the best matches I watched, in my opinion, was not the matches that was matches that every point was two, three shots. No. That's the real thing. That's don't involved the crowd to the match.

You know, that's don't -- this is not emotional game, you know, when you hit one, two, three shots and that's it. And the people loves the sport when the sport become emotional.

To become emotional needs drama, needs physical issue, needs long points. And if you let one long points, it's obvious that the rule is not the right one.

But I will not say. Again, everybody knows what I think about it, and that's it. No, no, no, nothing to do. Somebody wanted that rule, and when somebody with a lot of power want the rule, the people who run the sport follow that. So that's it.

http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=117677

Who is this "somebody with a lot of power"?. Why have they got more power than those who run the sport? Why has this scandalous allegation not been followed up? Why no reports in the media about the existence of an individual more powerful than the sport? Why did no one ask Nadal to name names? Most worryingly do all the reporters know about this individual but they have agreed to keep quiet? I am intrigued.

Andy Murray received a time violation serving against Raonic at 6:7, 0:1, 15-40 (Queens). Went on to lose the point, and lose the serve for the first time in the match.

Are you telling me we are NOT talking about Nadal....
horror. jEEZE where are you HE

USTA, ATP & WTA Implement Rules Innovations At Events Throughout Summer

for anyone interested.