Why Wlad will have the last laugh on all us critics !!

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 26 Aug - 1:28

First topic message reminder :

I have Louis number 2 by a mile in my Heavyweight ATG list...........His opposition wasn't that great until the end of his reign and he had an up and down record against those....

He's number 2 because he was a dominant Heavy and had great Longevity......

Same as Wlad...............

So when Klitty has slung his hook ...It's going to be highly hypocritical (though I'll give it a go !! Wink

) For us not to have him very high in the ATG Heavy list....

I mean I chuck Sanders at Wlad..............But we could chuck Schmelling at Louis....

Louis deserved high ranking is the problem for all us Wlad detractors...........

Yep Wlad will have the longest laugh..............If we don't have him high he has great rebuttal !!!!!.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 28 Aug - 8:48

catchweight wrote:Yes quite clearly there were no 250lb, 6'5 men around those days that could punch hard in those days. They only evolved decades later to the pinnacle of heavyweight boxing that exists now. Darwin at work.

Heavyweight champion Primo Carnera weighed 260...20 years earlier..

by catchweight Fri 28 Aug - 8:51

He was trounced by much smaller and better heavyweights

by Hammersmith harrier Fri 28 Aug - 8:54

catchweight wrote:He was trounced by much smaller and better heavyweights

Emphasise being on better.

by Hammersmith harrier Fri 28 Aug - 9:00

The Super Heavyweight clean and jerk world record in 1951 was 182kg, fast forward 37 years and that record was increased by near enough 50% to 266kg. However in that time through sports science and a degree of evolution sportsmen have not improved.

A Middleweight in the 50's is still a Middleweight today, however a Heavyweight like Marciano in the 50's would be a Cruiserweight or Light Heavyweight today.

by catchweight Fri 28 Aug - 9:10

No emphasis on his size being an over rated factor.

If being a big 250lb, 6'5 that could punch hard was the prototype great heavyweight then boxing history would be filled with heavyweight champions of this mould. They didnt just spring up out of nowhere and there are plenty examples of these big guys getting their ass whipped by smaller heavyweights.

A more revealing question is where are all the smaller heavyweights disappearing too? In most cases to other sports nowadays. Heavyweight boxing is left to the dregs of other sports now. Guys who couldnt make it in other sports. The big untalented heavyweights are populating the division now because they arent getting weeded out early anymore. Not because they have evolved.

by **ShahenshahG** Fri 28 Aug - 17:14

Again. Wlad isn't just a big man with a big punch. He's a sound technical boxer, hes very very quick and he's not just a hard puncher but quite probably somewhere in the top 5 heaviest punchers of all time. Then you can consider his movement his ability to pace himself, his ability to control with the Jab and hook off the jab, ability to hook from short distance. The heavy right cross. His accuracy, his ability to grind and dishearten opponents and his occasional flirting with body punches and uppercuts which show that his limited punch variation is a choice not a lack of ability. He's weak on the inside and has a weakish chin and poor stamina, all of which he's developed a strategy for, he can hold, wrestle or lean on opponents when he needs to, he has limited his skill set to the one two with left hooks off the jab and more rarely wide left hooks and right hand leads. He keeps opponents off of him with good movement and an excellent mixture of half and heavy jabs and crosses, and those who bull through tend to get flattened by the left hook. In those three punches - An orthodox boxers staple is there anyone barring Lennox who throws them equally well and with that much power? In short, No.

If you think Wlad is big, can punch hard and has no other attributes/skills then you need to get your head out of your ar*e.

by AdamT Fri 28 Aug - 17:43

That is the best post of the thread.

You understand boxing.

by hazharrison Fri 28 Aug - 20:36

ShahenshahG wrote:Again. Wlad isn't just a big man with a big punch. He's a sound technical boxer, hes very very quick and he's not just a hard puncher but quite probably somewhere in the top 5 heaviest punchers of all time. Then you can consider his movement his ability to pace himself, his ability to control with the Jab and hook off the jab, ability to hook from short distance. The heavy right cross. His accuracy, his ability to grind and dishearten opponents and his occasional flirting with body punches and uppercuts which show that his limited punch variation is a choice not a lack of ability. He's weak on the inside and has a weakish chin and poor stamina, all of which he's developed a strategy for, he can hold, wrestle or lean on opponents when he needs to, he has limited his skill set to the one two with left hooks off the jab and more rarely wide left hooks and right hand leads. He keeps opponents off of him with good movement and an excellent mixture of half and heavy jabs and crosses, and those who bull through tend to get flattened by the left hook. In those three punches - An orthodox boxers staple is there anyone barring Lennox who throws them equally well and with that much power? In short, No.

If you think Wlad is big, can punch hard and has no other attributes/skills then you need to get your head out of your ar*e.

He's not far from the perfect identikit heavyweight, however, he's lacking in spirit as opposed to technique/physicality. The man does not like being hit and panics dreadfully whenever anyone gets off. While the shower he's fought have not had the ability to trouble him, a great fighter would. Tyson Fury, for all his limitations, will be able to find him and that alone gives him a shot.

Klitschko is a physical specimen with good skills (he cannot fight inside mind you). The reason he isn't great lies within. He lacks the necessary fighting zeal, heart, courage - call it what you like - to be truly special.

by milkyboy Fri 28 Aug - 20:44

AdamT wrote:That is the best post of the thread.

You understand boxing.

The worst post of the thread. Shah understands boxing Laugh

Just goes to show you can fool some of the people all of the time eh bud

klitschko is an excellent fighter. Boring? yes. saftey first and gunshy? yes. It's damned effective though and he hasn't changed because he hasn't needed to.

made a statement against pulev to be fair.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 28 Aug - 20:46

hazharrison wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Again. Wlad isn't just a big man with a big punch. He's a sound technical boxer, hes very very quick and he's not just a hard puncher but quite probably somewhere in the top 5 heaviest punchers of all time. Then you can consider his movement his ability to pace himself, his ability to control with the Jab and hook off the jab, ability to hook from short distance. The heavy right cross. His accuracy, his ability to grind and dishearten opponents and his occasional flirting with body punches and uppercuts which show that his limited punch variation is a choice not a lack of ability. He's weak on the inside and has a weakish chin and poor stamina, all of which he's developed a strategy for, he can hold, wrestle or lean on opponents when he needs to, he has limited his skill set to the one two with left hooks off the jab and more rarely wide left hooks and right hand leads. He keeps opponents off of him with good movement and an excellent mixture of half and heavy jabs and crosses, and those who bull through tend to get flattened by the left hook. In those three punches - An orthodox boxers staple is there anyone barring Lennox who throws them equally well and with that much power? In short, No.

If you think Wlad is big, can punch hard and has no other attributes/skills then you need to get your head out of your ar*e.

He's not far from the perfect identikit heavyweight, however, he's lacking in spirit as opposed to technique/physicality. The man does not like being hit and panics dreadfully whenever anyone gets off. While the shower he's fought have not had the ability to trouble him, a great fighter would. Tyson Fury, for all his limitations, will be able to find him and that alone gives him a shot.

Klitschko is a physical specimen with good skills (he cannot fight inside mind you). The reason he isn't great lies within. He lacks the necessary fighting zeal, heart, courage - call it what you like - to be truly special.

I'll let someone else take time to respond to that crap....If they can be bothered.

by milkyboy Fri 28 Aug - 20:53

hazharrison wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Again. Wlad isn't just a big man with a big punch. He's a sound technical boxer, hes very very quick and he's not just a hard puncher but quite probably somewhere in the top 5 heaviest punchers of all time. Then you can consider his movement his ability to pace himself, his ability to control with the Jab and hook off the jab, ability to hook from short distance. The heavy right cross. His accuracy, his ability to grind and dishearten opponents and his occasional flirting with body punches and uppercuts which show that his limited punch variation is a choice not a lack of ability. He's weak on the inside and has a weakish chin and poor stamina, all of which he's developed a strategy for, he can hold, wrestle or lean on opponents when he needs to, he has limited his skill set to the one two with left hooks off the jab and more rarely wide left hooks and right hand leads. He keeps opponents off of him with good movement and an excellent mixture of half and heavy jabs and crosses, and those who bull through tend to get flattened by the left hook. In those three punches - An orthodox boxers staple is there anyone barring Lennox who throws them equally well and with that much power? In short, No.

If you think Wlad is big, can punch hard and has no other attributes/skills then you need to get your head out of your ar*e.

He's not far from the perfect identikit heavyweight, however, he's lacking in spirit as opposed to technique/physicality. The man does not like being hit and panics dreadfully whenever anyone gets off. While the shower he's fought have not had the ability to trouble him, a great fighter would. Tyson Fury, for all his limitations, will be able to find him and that alone gives him a shot.

Klitschko is a physical specimen with good skills (he cannot fight inside mind you). The reason he isn't great lies within. He lacks the necessary fighting zeal, heart, courage - call it what you like - to be truly special.

take your point about looking a bit rabbit in the headlights when he gets hit. I'd also agree that give him his brother's chin and fighting instincts and you'd have a very formidable operator. That said no-one likes getting hit, bar the completely deranged, and when pulev clocked him he responded by knocking him out. Maybe the guy's matured, but the question marks will persist.

by Rowley Fri 28 Aug - 20:58

Whilst it is certainly true Wlad does not like a tear up, why should he when he can win without having one. But think to say he lacks heart or fortitude seems a little harsh. He showed enough guts to get back in there after three pretty crushing losses, which takes something. Also would seem fairly obvious he has made enough money out of the game by now to not need to carry on but does so. Also, although I have no evidence to support this think it is safe to assume he will have been smart with his money so again does not need to keep getting in the ring, but he does.

Given he is a well educated and articulate guy it is also pretty obvious he would not be short of ways to fill his retirement or leisure time. He chooses not to pursue any of these, but chooses to keep fighting. All of this suggest to me there is a fighter in there somewhere.

by TopHat24/7 Fri 28 Aug - 21:07

Rowley wrote:Whilst it is certainly true Wlad does not like a tear up, why should he when he can win without having one. But think to say he lacks heart or fortitude seems a little harsh. He showed enough guts to get back in there after three pretty crushing losses, which takes something. Also would seem fairly obvious he has made enough money out of the game by now to not need to carry on but does so. Also, although I have no evidence to support this think it is safe to assume he will have been smart with his money so again does not need to keep getting in the ring, but he does.

Given he is a well educated and articulate guy it is also pretty obvious he would not be short of ways to fill his retirement or leisure time. He chooses not to pursue any of these, but chooses to keep fighting. All of this suggest to me there is a fighter in there somewhere.

I think that's a little generous when you look at the stick Floyd is getting for Berto, where there's a similar void in ability and risk as Wlad versus most of his oppos.

At least Floyd takes on a serious challenge every now and again in between the gimmes.......

by Rowley Fri 28 Aug - 21:10

Wlad does have a tendency to fight the best available in all fairness toppy. He can hardly be blamed for the fact they are such a talentless bunch. If someone, be it Povetkin or Haye emerges as either a legitmate or perceived threat he fights them. Can't really ask a lot more of any fighter in terms of the fights they take.

by TopHat24/7 Fri 28 Aug - 21:20

Agree you can't blame that 'the best availble' isn't up to much, but equally I do think it means you can't use 'risk-reward' as a basis of analysis.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 28 Aug - 21:33

It's a quandary with Wlad isn't it.....??

He's been forced to fight crap.....and yet the obvious question is would he have prospered with decent opposition ??

Can't see him beating the likes of Witherspoon personally.....Even a straight punching hard hitting Bonecrusher at 6ft 4 and 230 would be a problem....

by AdamT Fri 28 Aug - 22:24

You're maybe right Truss, but Wlad can only beat what's in front of him.

by Nico the gman Fri 28 Aug - 23:36

I honestly think Klitschko would have struggled against Witherspoon, Page and Tubbs, I could see anyone of these catching him putting him over.

I agree you can only fight what's in the division, but as I've said before I think he's a good Heavy not a great one, he hasn't even fought anyone in the class of the 3 fighters named above.

by hazharrison Sat 29 Aug - 5:04

milkyboy wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Again. Wlad isn't just a big man with a big punch. He's a sound technical boxer, hes very very quick and he's not just a hard puncher but quite probably somewhere in the top 5 heaviest punchers of all time. Then you can consider his movement his ability to pace himself, his ability to control with the Jab and hook off the jab, ability to hook from short distance. The heavy right cross. His accuracy, his ability to grind and dishearten opponents and his occasional flirting with body punches and uppercuts which show that his limited punch variation is a choice not a lack of ability. He's weak on the inside and has a weakish chin and poor stamina, all of which he's developed a strategy for, he can hold, wrestle or lean on opponents when he needs to, he has limited his skill set to the one two with left hooks off the jab and more rarely wide left hooks and right hand leads. He keeps opponents off of him with good movement and an excellent mixture of half and heavy jabs and crosses, and those who bull through tend to get flattened by the left hook. In those three punches - An orthodox boxers staple is there anyone barring Lennox who throws them equally well and with that much power? In short, No.

If you think Wlad is big, can punch hard and has no other attributes/skills then you need to get your head out of your ar*e.

He's not far from the perfect identikit heavyweight, however, he's lacking in spirit as opposed to technique/physicality. The man does not like being hit and panics dreadfully whenever anyone gets off. While the shower he's fought have not had the ability to trouble him, a great fighter would. Tyson Fury, for all his limitations, will be able to find him and that alone gives him a shot.

Klitschko is a physical specimen with good skills (he cannot fight inside mind you). The reason he isn't great lies within. He lacks the necessary fighting zeal, heart, courage - call it what you like - to be truly special.

take your point about looking a bit rabbit in the headlights when he gets hit. I'd also agree that give him his brother's chin and fighting instincts and you'd have a very formidable operator. That said no-one likes getting hit, bar the completely deranged, and when pulev clocked him he responded by knocking him out. Maybe the guy's matured, but the question marks will persist.

I thought the Pulev fight was a turning point. I hoped Klitschko might close out his career in style yet he was back to his old self against the American (whose name escapes me).

No-one likes getting hit but Klitschko looks visibly terrified when someone tags him. There's something distinctly unedifying about a champion of his physical dimensions panicking at such moments. His brother had that fighting spirit I mentioned earlier - tough as they come Vitali.

by hazharrison Sat 29 Aug - 5:08

Rowley wrote:Whilst it is certainly true Wlad does not like a tear up, why should he when he can win without having one. But think to say he lacks heart or fortitude seems a little harsh. He showed enough guts to get back in there after three pretty crushing losses, which takes something. Also would seem fairly obvious he has made enough money out of the game by now to not need to carry on but does so. Also, although I have no evidence to support this think it is safe to assume he will have been smart with his money so again does not need to keep getting in the ring, but he does.

Given he is a well educated and articulate guy it is also pretty obvious he would not be short of ways to fill his retirement or leisure time. He chooses not to pursue any of these, but chooses to keep fighting. All of this suggest to me there is a fighter in there somewhere.

He doesn't have to have a tear up but he could have taken care of the majority of his opposition in style, with va va voom rather than the drab jab and grab tactics he employs due to his fear of being hit. Take Lepai for example - a complete and utter tomato can. Klitschko should have wiped him out in a round rather than pis s far ting around like he did.

He deserves immense credit for coming back after those crushing losses and he's been a very good, dominant champion. I was merely making a point about why he falls short of greatness.

by 3fingers Sat 29 Aug - 7:38

Shah's post is the best I've read on Wlad - just facts.

by 3fingers Sat 29 Aug - 7:50

Since reinventing himself Wlad has been predictable, meticulous, concentrated, risk averse and nigh on unbeatable. He makes a living following a tried and tested formula; so where is the motivation to capitulate to fans' desires and expectations?

by kingraf Sat 29 Aug - 7:51

hazharrison wrote:
Rowley wrote:Whilst it is certainly true Wlad does not like a tear up, why should he when he can win without having one. But think to say he lacks heart or fortitude seems a little harsh. He showed enough guts to get back in there after three pretty crushing losses, which takes something. Also would seem fairly obvious he has made enough money out of the game by now to not need to carry on but does so. Also, although I have no evidence to support this think it is safe to assume he will have been smart with his money so again does not need to keep getting in the ring, but he does.

Given he is a well educated and articulate guy it is also pretty obvious he would not be short of ways to fill his retirement or leisure time. He chooses not to pursue any of these, but chooses to keep fighting. All of this suggest to me there is a fighter in there somewhere.

He doesn't have to have a tear up but he could have taken care of the majority of his opposition in style, with va va voom rather than the drab jab and grab tactics he employs due to his fear of being hit. Take Lepai for example - a complete and utter tomato can. Klitschko should have wiped him out in a round rather than pis s far ting around like he did.

He deserves immense credit for coming back after those crushing losses and he's been a very good, dominant champion. I was merely making a point about why he falls short of greatness.

To be fair, I think there are economic considerations for why these tomato cans last as long as they do.

by AdamT Sat 29 Aug - 8:05

3fingers fully agree. Sport is entertainment and most fans love blood and guts.

However boxing is about defence as much as offence. Hit and avoid being hit.

I don't particularly find Wlad fun to watch, however he is a great boxer.

by catchweight Sat 29 Aug - 11:58

ShahenshahG wrote:Again. Wlad isn't just a big man with a big punch. He's a sound technical boxer, hes very very quick and he's not just a hard puncher but quite probably somewhere in the top 5 heaviest punchers of all time. Then you can consider his movement his ability to pace himself, his ability to control with the Jab and hook off the jab, ability to hook from short distance. The heavy right cross. His accuracy, his ability to grind and dishearten opponents and his occasional flirting with body punches and uppercuts which show that his limited punch variation is a choice not a lack of ability. He's weak on the inside and has a weakish chin and poor stamina, all of which he's developed a strategy for, he can hold, wrestle or lean on opponents when he needs to, he has limited his skill set to the one two with left hooks off the jab and more rarely wide left hooks and right hand leads. He keeps opponents off of him with good movement and an excellent mixture of half and heavy jabs and crosses, and those who bull through tend to get flattened by the left hook. In those three punches - An orthodox boxers staple is there anyone barring Lennox who throws them equally well and with that much power? In short, No.

If you think Wlad is big, can punch hard and has no other attributes/skills then you need to get your head out of your ar*e.

If you think Wlad is a great fighter its you who needs the head removed from ar$e.

A guys whos been flattened 3 times by boxers that couldnt hold a candle to a Marciano or a Louis. Whos careeer best wins are over the likes of Pulev (who?) or Chris Byrd. A guy who in his biggest figt (Haye, Povetkin, etc) put in performances that were a million miles from great.

And besides, the argument was never addressed to Klitschko, just to this silly belief that being a "modern" 250lb tall heavyweights is boxing evoluton. Heavyweight boxing these days is the dregs. Leftovers from other sports. If being a big 250lb guy guaruanteed being heavyweight champion then all the heavyweight champions would fall into this bracket. They didnt and its nothing to do to with any evolution or training adavances that the division now is populated by these mediocre, oversized heavyweights.

by catchweight Sat 29 Aug - 12:00

hazharrison wrote:
Rowley wrote:Whilst it is certainly true Wlad does not like a tear up, why should he when he can win without having one. But think to say he lacks heart or fortitude seems a little harsh. He showed enough guts to get back in there after three pretty crushing losses, which takes something. Also would seem fairly obvious he has made enough money out of the game by now to not need to carry on but does so. Also, although I have no evidence to support this think it is safe to assume he will have been smart with his money so again does not need to keep getting in the ring, but he does.

Given he is a well educated and articulate guy it is also pretty obvious he would not be short of ways to fill his retirement or leisure time. He chooses not to pursue any of these, but chooses to keep fighting. All of this suggest to me there is a fighter in there somewhere.

He doesn't have to have a tear up but he could have taken care of the majority of his opposition in style, with va va voom rather than the drab jab and grab tactics he employs due to his fear of being hit. Take Lepai for example - a complete and utter tomato can. Klitschko should have wiped him out in a round rather than pis s far ting around like he did.

He deserves immense credit for coming back after those crushing losses and he's been a very good, dominant champion. I was merely making a point about why he falls short of greatness.

He can make millions from glorified sparring sessions. No wonder he continues.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 29 Aug - 18:00

One day you'll make a sensible point Catchweight not full of needless hyperbolic bias.

by hazharrison Sat 29 Aug - 23:12

At least he's offered an opinion. All I ever see from some posters is baiting, trolling and abuse. It's embarrassing behaviour from (I'm presuming) grown adults.

by AdamT Sun 30 Aug - 0:00

Who has trolled in this thread?

by Atila Sun 30 Aug - 1:57

Nico the gman wrote:I honestly think Klitschko would have struggled against Witherspoon, Page and Tubbs, I could see anyone of these catching him putting him over.

I agree you can only fight what's in the division, but as I've said before I think he's a good Heavy not a great one, he hasn't even fought anyone in the class of the 3 fighters named above.

Really? Out of that trio I only see Witherspoon giving Wlad any serious problems.

by Nico the gman Sun 30 Aug - 2:03

Atila wrote:
Nico the gman wrote:I honestly think Klitschko would have struggled against Witherspoon, Page and Tubbs, I could see anyone of these catching him putting him over.

I agree you can only fight what's in the division, but as I've said before I think he's a good Heavy not a great one, he hasn't even fought anyone in the class of the 3 fighters named above.
Really? Out of that trio I only see Witherspoon giving Wlad any serious problems.

Tubbs and Greg Page both had fast hands, and where good combination punchers who could dig, so yes IMO they beat Klitschko, they are class above any opponent Klitschko has ever fought.

by Atila Sun 30 Aug - 2:24

Nico the gman wrote:
Atila wrote:
Nico the gman wrote:I honestly think Klitschko would have struggled against Witherspoon, Page and Tubbs, I could see anyone of these catching him putting him over.

I agree you can only fight what's in the division, but as I've said before I think he's a good Heavy not a great one, he hasn't even fought anyone in the class of the 3 fighters named above.
Really? Out of that trio I only see Witherspoon giving Wlad any serious problems.
Tubbs and Greg Page both had fast hands, and where good combination punchers who could dig, so yes IMO they beat Klitschko, they are class above any opponent Klitschko has ever fought.

Yes, but they were both fighters who frequently showed up fat and out of shape, they lacked dedication. Page was rated highly back in the early 80's and when he got his big chance to fight Witherspoon for the vacant WBC title, he was too lazy to get himself into top condition. Tubbs too lived up to his last name. I guess it's possible that they could upset Wlad, but they would have to show up on their very best night ever and Wlad would have to show up on an off night. That's the only way I could see it happening.

by Nico the gman Sun 30 Aug - 2:33

Atila wrote:
Nico the gman wrote:
Atila wrote:
Nico the gman wrote:I honestly think Klitschko would have struggled against Witherspoon, Page and Tubbs, I could see anyone of these catching him putting him over.

I agree you can only fight what's in the division, but as I've said before I think he's a good Heavy not a great one, he hasn't even fought anyone in the class of the 3 fighters named above.
Really? Out of that trio I only see Witherspoon giving Wlad any serious problems.
Tubbs and Greg Page both had fast hands, and where good combination punchers who could dig, so yes IMO they beat Klitschko, they are class above any opponent Klitschko has ever fought.
Yes, but they were both fighters who frequently showed up fat and out of shape, they lacked dedication. Page was rated highly back in the early 80's and when he got his big chance to fight Witherspoon for the vacant WBC title, he was too lazy to get himself into top condition. Tubbs too lived up to his last name. I guess it's possible that they could upset Wlad, but they would have to show up on their very best night ever and Wlad would have to show up on an off night. That's the only way I could see it happening. [/quote They would both definitely have to be in shape, it would need to be the Greg Page who showed up in Sun City as the sacrificial lamb and hammered Coetzee.

by Mayweathers cellmate Sun 30 Aug - 8:30

Who did Page and Tubbs beat to make you think they'd beat Klitschko?

by catchweight Sun 30 Aug - 10:17

Hammersmith harrier wrote:One day you'll make a sensible point Catchweight not full of needless hyperbolic bias.

One day you might understand a sensible point. Im not holding my breath.

by monty junior Mon 31 Aug - 3:35

Nico the gman wrote:I honestly think Klitschko would have struggled against Witherspoon, Page and Tubbs, I could see anyone of these catching him putting him over.

I agree you can only fight what's in the division, but as I've said before I think he's a good Heavy not a great one, he hasn't even fought anyone in the class of the 3 fighters named above.

Tubbs? he had no power at all, Page had a good dig on him but those three are completely hypothetical due to 90% of the time they came in verging on morbidly obese.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Aug - 4:20

If ignorance is bliss....

Tubbs was a top amateur....Beat Page, Bonecrusher and lost a decision that could have gone either way with Witherspoon....He also beat Bowe in most eyes just before he trashed Holy...Fastest hands I've ever seen in the last 40 years..

Very polished and talented fighter..

Try to be less ignorant...

by Atila Mon 31 Aug - 4:37

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If ignorance is bliss....

Tubbs was a top amateur....Beat Page, Bonecrusher and lost a decision that could have gone either way with Witherspoon....He also beat Bowe in most eyes just before he trashed Holy...Fastest hands I've ever seen in the last 40 years..

Very polished and talented fighter..

Try to be less ignorant...

I've never read anywhere else that Tubbs beat Bowe. Beat him in a pie eating contest maybe.

by AdamT Mon 31 Aug - 4:46

Tubbs was quick. Always got the impression he was a bit Toney like.

He had talent, but looked like he spent too much time at KFC.

by Atila Mon 31 Aug - 4:56

Don't get me wrong, Tubbs had talent, but I definitely wouldn't put any money on him beating Wlad. One thing you can count on is that Wlad always shows up in shape.

Tubbs? How many times did he actually show up in shape?

by Nico the gman Mon 31 Aug - 4:58

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Who did Page and Tubbs beat to make you think they'd beat Klitschko?

Truss answered your question with regard to Tubbs, Page was a lazy fighter who had 48 stoppages or KO's in his 58 wins, having said that, who has Klitschko beat to make you think he beats Tubbs and Page.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 31 Aug - 5:06

Nico the gman wrote:
Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Who did Page and Tubbs beat to make you think they'd beat Klitschko?
Truss answered your question with regard to Tubbs, Page was a lazy fighter who had 48 stoppages or KO's in his 58 wins, having said that, who has Klitschko beat to make you think he beats Tubbs and Page.

It's more the fact the pair of them are unlikely to turn up in shape and with respect to the pair do not have Wlads ability, he's beaten a lot of crap but so has every Heavyweight champion. It seems odd that you can get lambasted for saying Wlad beats Marciano but saying an ill disciplined Greg Page beats Wlad seems a perfectly reasonable opinion to some when it's likelihood of happening is zilch.

by AdamT Mon 31 Aug - 5:39

I agree about Wlad beating Page.

Come on guys the division is pretty dire and Wlad is boring, but he can box and is a good athlete.

He's not the greatest or even close, but he is still a top 15-20 heavy.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Aug - 6:54

Tubbs v Bowe was very controversial....Tubbs out boxed him....

Ko scored it for Tubbs as did Boxing illustrated..

Page, Tubbs and Witherspoon would be the best fighters Wlad has ever faced...and they did turn up in shape from time to time....

I grew up watching these guys and they were all better than Sanders and Brewster

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Aug - 7:05

AdamT wrote:I agree about Wlad beating Page.

Come on guys the division is pretty dire and Wlad is boring, but he can box and is a good athlete.

He's not the greatest or even close, but he is still a top 15-20 heavy.

Shouldn't you watch Page fight before making calls like that..

Wlad is top 15 by longevity.....Tua would of killed him

by Mayweathers cellmate Mon 31 Aug - 7:12

Nico the gman wrote:
Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Who did Page and Tubbs beat to make you think they'd beat Klitschko?
Truss answered your question with regard to Tubbs, Page was a lazy fighter who had 48 stoppages or KO's in his 58 wins, having said that, who has Klitschko beat to make you think he beats Tubbs and Page.

He didn't answer my question, he proved my point. A best win over Bonecrusher Smith is hardly great evidence for the pair beating Klitschko. Page and Tubbs were Hasim Rahman quality. Klitschko's record is littered with opponents of that standard.

by catchweight Mon 31 Aug - 7:19

I would take Tubbs at his best to beat Klitschko but he was a cocaine addict for a lot of his career so was seldom close to his best.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Aug - 7:37

He went 15 at a good pace....

I'd pick Sanders everytime over Wlad.....Comes in on straight lines does Wlad..

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Aug - 7:41

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:
Nico the gman wrote:
Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Who did Page and Tubbs beat to make you think they'd beat Klitschko?
Truss answered your question with regard to Tubbs, Page was a lazy fighter who had 48 stoppages or KO's in his 58 wins, having said that, who has Klitschko beat to make you think he beats Tubbs and Page.

He didn't answer my question, he proved my point. A best win over Bonecrusher Smith is hardly great evidence for the pair beating Klitschko. Page and Tubbs were Hasim Rahman quality. Klitschko's record is littered with opponents of that standard.

Page was Hasim Rahman quality....That's why Larry gave up the belt was it..

Go and troll somewhere else....

by catchweight Mon 31 Aug - 7:54

Klitschko looks like he is in good shape but his stamina is nothing special and he cant fight to a high tempo or he gasses out. Any deviation from his tried and tested formula and he starts to struggle.

Tubbs at his best was a better and more versatile boxer than Klitschko. He lacked Klitschkos professionalism though and fell way short of realising his potential.

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