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US Open Day 5 - Shall I Neel and ask her to Marray me? Or shall I just Peyer and give her the Haas Keys?

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Post by HM Murdock Fri 04 Sep 2015, 7:02 am

First topic message reminder :

Order of play
http://www.usopen.org/en_US/scores/schedule/index.html?promo=topnav

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Sat 05 Sep 2015, 3:54 pm

Im not sure topspin works well on quicker surfaces so I dont think Rafa was putting too much spin into his shots compared to clay. What is this 'Rafa had not won vs a seeded player there'? He certainly had won his matches vs seeded players there!

Its strange that when Rafa won the HC slams people started saying the courts were being slowed down! It happened when he won AOin 2009 and now we hear the USO court was slowed down in 2010!

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Post by TRuffin Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:12 pm

The U.S. Open was most definitely slowed down in 2010
. That's not a fan debate, that's a fact. They changed the court paint to a grittier sand mix. Announced, publicized, and confirmed by both players and commentators alike.  It has been tweaked to slightly less gritty and slightly faster the past two years, but no where near the speed of 10,15 years ago

Nadal was hitting with great topspin last night. The seeded player thing must be wrong, not sure what that means, but is is true nadal never beat a top 10 seed at us open until 2010. That' might what he meant.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:21 pm

I think it was 2011 not 2010. I remember players were complaining about the courts then in paricular by Mardy Fish.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:24 pm

So if its 2010 that means Delpo was the last player to win on the quicker USO court in 2009. So All others after Delpo won on the slower courts.

I think the AO too, the changed the court surface in 2008 or 2009?

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Post by bogbrush Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:28 pm

AO went in 2008.
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Post by bogbrush Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:32 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Im not sure topspin works well on quicker surfaces so I dont think Rafa was putting too much spin into his shots compared to clay. What is this 'Rafa had not won vs a seeded player there'?  He certainly had won his matches vs seeded players there!

Its strange that when Rafa won the HC slams people started saying the courts were being slowed down!  It happened when he won AOin 2009 and now we hear the USO court was slowed down in 2010!

The first time Nadal beat a seeded player at the USO was in the 3rd round in 2009, when he beat #32 seed El Mugro. Until then all his victories had been over unseeded players.

It's stranger that few saw the connection at the time.


Last edited by bogbrush on Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by temporary21 Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:33 pm

Slower courts? Well well have to scratch all those wins off then for not being true courts... or something...

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Post by bogbrush Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:36 pm

temporary21 wrote:Slower courts? Well well have to scratch all those wins off then for not being true courts... or something...
Is that what someone said?
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Post by Belovedluckyboy Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:37 pm

Yep BB, he then went on to beat Monfils no.16 and Gonzo no.11 after that. That year Rafa was just back after skipping Wimbledon due to knee injury. Delpo was on fire that year and so had beaten Fedal there to win his USO title.

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Post by Guest Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:42 pm

This has become...

https://youtu.be/KAWoP1kncRE

Guest
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Post by Belovedluckyboy Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:45 pm

BTW what connection? Rafa was knackered in 2008 due to his exploits at Canada and Olympics and reached the SF at Cincy. He still reached the SF at USO and lost to Murray.

Im not sure the other top ten players were good enough to beat him there in 2008 when Rafa was playing some of his best HC tennis, and where Fed and Novak were in the other half of the draw. The Beijing Olympics courts were using similar surfaces like the USO so its not like Rafa was hopeless on those quicker HCs.

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Post by TRuffin Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:45 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:I think it was 2011 not 2010.  I remember players were complaining about the courts then in paricular by Mardy Fish.

No it was defiantly 2010 when the grittier surface was laid and speed slowed down.

The ao had plexicushion laid for 2008 which both slowed the pace and created a much higher bounce.

It doesn't diminish anything and he prob would have won the same tournaments anyway as he hit his prime, but nadal was certainly helped by the conditions being made that accentuated his playing style.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:49 pm

Anyway Rafa was relying on his big serve to help win his first USO title. He was hitting some very good flat BHs too at that time and some good slices. I think that would be good enough to win even on quicker surfaces prior to 2010.

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Post by bogbrush Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:53 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Yep BB, he then went on to beat Monfils no.16 and Gonzo no.11 after that.  That year Rafa was just back after skipping Wimbledon due to knee injury. Delpo was on fire that year and so had beaten Fedal there to win his USO title.
I wasn't giving you information about that year but rather about his whole career before late 2009.
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Post by bogbrush Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:56 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Anyway Rafa was relying on his big serve to help win his first USO title.  He was hitting some very good flat BHs too at that time and some good slices.  I think that would be good enough to win even on quicker surfaces prior to 2010.
I guess we'll never know.
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Post by Belovedluckyboy Sat 05 Sep 2015, 4:58 pm

BB read my comment about his 2008 to understand my response to your point. His whole career before 2009 was really only that 4 years from 2005-2008 when he wasnt even hitting his prime!

My comment about his 2010 USO title was meant as a response to Truffin, not to you.

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Post by LuvSports! Sat 05 Sep 2015, 5:00 pm

The Rafa that served in the 130's for one tournament, but was never seen again....

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Sat 05 Sep 2015, 5:03 pm

Doesnt matter as long as it won him the big prize plus a smaller one (at Tokyo).

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Post by temporary21 Sat 05 Sep 2015, 5:12 pm

If youre insinuating what I think LS (which is absolutely a legitimate viewpoint dont get me wrong, just no significant proof) I dont think that serve is evidence, those things dont work like that

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Sat 05 Sep 2015, 5:17 pm

Rafa has shoulder issues after that USO win so he didnt continue serving that way. However he was serving well at USO2013 in the 120+ mph region and won his 2nd USO title. If im not wrong he lost only one set prior to reaching the final and held his serve all the way until the SF vs Gasquet.

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Post by LuvSports! Sat 05 Sep 2015, 5:26 pm

Thanks Temp, I disagree, as expected Wink

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Post by temporary21 Sat 05 Sep 2015, 5:56 pm

Would have really thought you ill if you didnt Very Happy

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Post by LuvSports! Sat 05 Sep 2015, 6:26 pm

Well I am ill :P

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Post by greengoblin Sat 05 Sep 2015, 6:27 pm

LuvSports! wrote:The Rafa that served in the 130's for one tournament, but was never seen again....

are you alleging PED's? I wouldn't like to think it of Rafa.

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Post by TheMessi Sat 05 Sep 2015, 7:51 pm

TRuffin wrote:The U.S. Open was most definitely slowed down in 2010
. That's not a fan debate, that's a fact. They changed the court paint to a grittier sand mix. Announced, publicized, and confirmed by both players and commentators alike.  It has been tweaked to slightly less gritty and slightly faster the past two years, but no where near the speed of 10,15 years ago

Nadal was hitting with great topspin last night.  The seeded player thing must be wrong, not sure what that means, but is is true nadal never beat a top 10 seed at us open until 2010.  That' might what he meant.
The balls were the main difference from previous years. Remember they provided bigger balls for men for the first time.....though they presented it as they were proving smaller balls for ladies to dissimulate their trick about helping Nadal.

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Post by temporary21 Sat 05 Sep 2015, 7:58 pm

in 2010? Noone would have beaten Nadal, he was awesome that tourny, even without these supposed cheating balls...

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Sat 05 Sep 2015, 8:15 pm

Agree, temp.

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Post by Henman Bill Sun 06 Sep 2015, 12:48 am

Wow, Fognini, >30 forehand winners. Will anyone be surprised though if he is half the player in the next round.

A few news sources reported Nadal's first ever defeat from two sets up - without adding "grand slam". That is wrong since Federer beat him (as an 18 year old) at Miami in 2005 there must be at least one other.

Looking back on it now with the benefit of hindsight, Rafa was a top 3-4 player until at least the French Open 2014, after which he became a top 10 player and no more by Australian Open 15 at the latest (losing in straight sets to Berdych).

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