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US Open Day 7 - I Have The Chardy-nay, So Let's Dance To The Maka-rena And The Fog On The Tyne

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Post by Guest Sun 06 Sep 2015, 11:16 am

First topic message reminder :

http://www.usopen.org/mobile/en_US/scores/schedule/index.html

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Post by slashermcguirk Mon 07 Sep 2015, 9:52 am

I have read many times where nadal has said that when djokovic is playing at his best and in that zone, he is completely unplayable! I agree that he plays within himself a little too much but if that is all that is required against most players, hard to blame him for not taking risks.

I find it impossible to understand that a player can be dull with that amount of talent and shotmaking. Watch any djokovic highlights reel and the guy plays tennis from the gods. He is an awesome talent and has been since he hit the tour. I will never forget that us open final in 07 against federer. He should have taken the first 2 sets and constantly had fed on the ropes even as a teen! I agree HM that I would like to see more of that aggressive game but what he is doing clearly works, with exception of a few backfires like this years French open final.

He needs other great players to bring the best out of him, hard to motivate him probably when he is just in cruise control

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Post by greengoblin Mon 07 Sep 2015, 9:55 am

Highlights of lopez vs fognini https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWzdjC9Rm9c

Lovely stuff from Lopez, great to see a player attacking the net as his preferred way of winning a point.

Easily the best slice backhand on tour.

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Post by Jahu Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:05 am

Let's hope he can slice Djoko to 5 sets, which will be impossible.
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Post by LuvSports! Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:07 am

Nah. Feds has a better one.

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Post by HM Murdock Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:09 am

Jahu wrote:HMM, you like Djoko just cause you don't like Fed/Nadal and want to be a fan of a different guy from the them 2
If only my reasons were that rational!

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Post by temporary21 Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:09 am

Im gonna throw the Dog into this convo, whos got one I can scarcely beleive

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Post by greengoblin Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:11 am

LuvSports! wrote:Nah. Feds has a better one.

Fed is second. Lopez's skids through the court more.

Yes forgot about Dolgo, he can certainly produce the most spectacular with that wicked inside out slice.


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Post by Jahu Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:11 am

Isner to take a set from Fed.

Kevin also a set maybe.

Stan also in 4.

Stosur hope she wins.

Konta not sure, Kvitova does not Kuit easy.
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Post by Jahu Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:12 am

greengoblin wrote:
LuvSports! wrote:Nah. Feds has a better one.

Fed is second. Lopez's skids through the court more

Come on, Lopez is slow as a turtle around court.
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Post by greengoblin Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:13 am

Jahu wrote:
greengoblin wrote:
LuvSports! wrote:Nah. Feds has a better one.

Fed is second. Lopez's skids through the court more

Come on, Lopez is slow as a turtle around court.

This is about Berdych I presume?

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Post by CAS Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:30 am

I agree on Novak, I play a lot of squash myself and most of my confidence comes from the fact I know I can make someone play one more shot than they were expecting. I've played people who are much more creative but I know they can't hi blinders for 1 hour straight.

I think that's the case for Novak, why risk being attacking when you can play safe and know you are the best baseliner in the world and can make your opponent beat themselves. He plays attacking when his back is against the wall, usually when he's down and gets really loose. Some people are great front runners like Rafa and Roger, I personally think Novak plays his best when he is challenged, he almost gets bored it seems at times


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Post by Jahu Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:35 am

Berdy is ok around court, too much muscle, but he would crush Lopez with power and movement.

Lopez is old school slice and net play, which I like, but in general he is lethargic.
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Post by bogbrush Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:41 am

So there's general agreement; to see the best from Djokovic all we need is a 23 year old Federer to come to the fore.

There is just one alternative - an even fitter, even more elastic Novak so he has to attack. I think if that happened I'm out of here!
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Post by lags72 Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:55 am

bogbrush wrote:So there's general agreement; to see the best from Djokovic all we need is a 23 year old Federer to come to the fore.

There is just one alternative - an even fitter, even more elastic Novak so he has to attack. I think if that happened I'm out of here!

Yep, I guess that's the answer if we are to have hopes of today's game being re-invigorated with fresh exciting talent who can offer a consistent challenge to the player sitting- very comfortably - at Number One.

Although .... looking at the current (and of course very limited in number) crop of teens, I won't be holding my breath on it happening any time soon ....... Crying or Very sad

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Post by kingraf Mon 07 Sep 2015, 11:02 am

Looking at Wawrinka's stats, five of his nine sets so far tournament have gone to TB. Indicates that he's headstrong, (has won all of them) but maybe not quite playing his best tennis.
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Post by greengoblin Mon 07 Sep 2015, 11:37 am



I actually don't thing Djokovic would be more attacking if he was facing a 23 year old fed. I think he still believes his best shot against any player is his 'pong' game style and he is mostly right, unless an offensive player really catches fire. Why do I think this? Because he's had quite a few matches which he has lost due to passivity but it has not changed his game plan one iota.

He was a lot more attacking in 2007 per se, and it's a bit sad he's changed. I would have liked to have seen novak post serving and breathing issues play his 2007 game style.

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Post by slashermcguirk Mon 07 Sep 2015, 11:57 am

So who is everybody predicting for today, my picks:

Murray in 4
Wawrinka in 3
Federer in 3 (maybe 4)
Gasquet in 5 (normally I would favour berdych but gasquet has been more the form player this year and in recent months)

Will be interesting to see how Anderson performs vs Murray. I would think Murray has the perfect game to neutralise Anderson's strengths but if he plays like he did vs Novak at Wimbledon, it will be a tough day for Murray.

You have to think that federer will get a look in on a few service games from isner and the opposite is unlikely for isner. He will rely on tiebreaks but federer can more than hold his own on serve and gets plenty of free points.

I haven't seen enough of berdych recently to know where his game is at but gasquet has been impressive. There is a chance of berdych plays well that his power will take the match out of gasquet's hands



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Post by bogbrush Mon 07 Sep 2015, 12:29 pm

Predictions:

Murray in 4
Wawrinka in 3
Gasket in 4

and the tough one......

Isner wins in 4 if - and only if - Federer has issues with the back and big John gets look-ins on making returns. He is no fool when it comes to rallying so Federer can't do without a decent quantity of one-stroke points. I also see that Big John hasn't been broken at the US Open since 2013 !!!!!!!!!! - no breaks at all last year, and none so far in 2015. He's also not faced many break points.

If there's no back problem then it's Federer in 3 (with the possible 4 due to a big servers hits). Since I have no idea whether he has a back problem, I'm going to guess he's ok and go Federer in 4, but not with huge confidence.


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Post by summerblues Mon 07 Sep 2015, 12:36 pm

legendkillarV2 wrote:I don't blame Djokovic completely.
Oh I do not blame him at all. His role is to win matches not to play pretty tennis. I would definitely not want players to switch to more attractive tennis even if they know the less attractive version will make them more successful.

It is up to tennis authorities - not the players - to make the parameters of the game so that the attractive play can be successful. Addmittedly, it is not all that easy because simply speeding the courts up is not a solution either - instead of boring baseline game we would have boring servefests. So more parameters need changing and that is harder.

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Post by lags72 Mon 07 Sep 2015, 1:18 pm

Isner picked off Federer in a DC tie a few years back (and in Switzerland......). It was on clay not hard, but I think Fed has been pretty edgy about him ever since.

If there is some kind of back injury - of which no definitive evidence so far - then Isner would be clear favourite to go through.

I hope Gasquet's rich run of form continues, he's a class player to watch when at his best. So much talent, but so much unfulfilled potential.

Murray's mixed set of performances, though a concern in some respects, could actually prove to be a better formula than simply sailing through to the business end in straights. He has had to dig deep at times, but then was very solid in his last round with a fuss-free win over Belluci.

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Post by Guest Mon 07 Sep 2015, 2:12 pm

summerblues wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:I don't blame Djokovic completely.
Oh I do not blame him at all.  His role is to win matches not to play pretty tennis.  I would definitely not want players to switch to more attractive tennis even if they know the less attractive version will make them more successful.

It is up to tennis authorities - not the players - to make the parameters of the game so that the attractive play can be successful.  Addmittedly, it is not all that easy because simply speeding the courts up is not a solution either - instead of boring baseline game we would have boring servefests.  So more parameters need changing and that is harder.

They need a balance. Both baseline tennis and serve fests would be palatable if measured in the right doses. You could even get a hybrid of the 2. It's just at the moment a new formula gets old if over-used.

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Post by Belovedluckyboy Mon 07 Sep 2015, 2:53 pm

Djoko's tennis is too robotic. While he was involved in many epic ATP matches, that was due more to his opponents playing unbelievable tennis to beat him or at least pushed him to go the distance.

His matches vs Stan, vs Nadal at FO2012 and 2013, his FO2011 and Wim 2014 matches vs Fed for examples. In all those matches, his opponents had to play at very high level in order to have a chance to beat him. All three of them had to play more attacking tennis to beat the human backboard ie Djoko.

I do agree that Djoko prior to ver 2 was a more attacking player, willing to take more risks by painting the lines, perhaps becuase he knew then that he couldnt sustain a good level for too long due to his health issues.

I dont agree that Nadal was more defensive than Novak, for Nadal also started out being more aggressive and looking to attack more than defend ( during 2003/2004), not afraid to move to the net to attack even when he wasnt a good volleyer back then.


I do feel that with the slowing of surfaces, the trio of Nadal, Djoko and Murray all adapted their play to succeed on the slower surfaces by building up their defences more than anything else. They are more successful than anyone else not named Federer because of their talent plus athletism. They are the players who could beat Fed frequently on the slowed down surfaces while others are not good enough to beat Fed regularly even on slowed down surfaces.

I think if Murray could play like his Rome 2011 SF vs Novak, he'll make things interesting in this Djokovic era, in addition to Stan. Perhaps a healthy and fit Kei too. Oh maybe a fit and healthy Delpo too, cant forget that Shanghai 2013 final between those two.

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Post by bogbrush Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:05 pm

Del Po

Sad

I don't expect to see the 2009 version again.
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Post by slashermcguirk Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:10 pm

I miss del potro and I really miss nalbandian! Loved watching Dave in full flow, had incredible feel off both wings. What he could have achieved with greater stamina and mental strength. Unbelievably gifted tennis player was Mr Nalbandian

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Post by HM Murdock Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:12 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:I think if Murray could play like his Rome 2011 SF vs Novak, he'll make things interesting in this Djokovic era
That Rome SF was the best match between the pair. One of my favourite bo3 matches I've seen.

Also agree about JMDP. The Shanghai final was brilliant, as was their Wimbledon SF in the same year. That's a match up where I don't mind seeing Novak scrambling in full-blown defence mode. He can be the immovable object to the irresistible force of Del Potro's forehand.

The tennis landscape could really be quite different if Del Potro hadn't got injured.

I don't think he would ever have been #1 but he would be another top level player at the business end of slams. I can see him being on 3-4 slams by now if he'd stayed fit.

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Post by bogbrush Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:23 pm

Yes, he brought something completely different to the game. Quite simply, if you were foolish enough to let him get an easy read on a forehand you were running!

I've said it many time but I STILL have no idea how Federer got out of that RG semi-final in 2009. For all the disappointment of the USO final, which he never should have lost (and which let us not forget actually prevented a RogerSlam) I still think winning the RG match was ample compensation.
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Post by LuvSports! Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:26 pm

Not sure I agree with Delpo on 3-4 slams. I can't see him getting anymore than Murray.

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Post by HM Murdock Mon 07 Sep 2015, 3:44 pm

LuvSports! wrote:Not sure I agree with Delpo on 3-4 slams. I can't see him getting anymore than Murray.
Well, he got his first slam 3 years before Murray and 4 years younger in age.

Even now, Murray's slam tally is only one ahead and Murray has played nine more slams than JMDP in the last 6 years.

I can quite easily imagine him winning 2-3 slams in the six years from USO 09 to present if he'd been fit.

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Post by LuvSports! Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:00 pm

I can't see him getting any slams in '10 with Rafa, '11 with Djoko. Maybe one in '12. '13 Rafa?
Last year at the US maybe, this year nope imo. 

He would have improved but so ahs the competition. So for me 2 slams.

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Post by bogbrush Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:08 pm

Really? The guy had the ability to just go right through opponents. I'm not saying he'd have cleaned up but I saw him being a nightmare on clay because he would have the height to handle Rafa's forehand (the old version I mean; Fabrice Santoro or Michael Chang could handle the 2015 one) and the power to hit through the slowest surface. Think 2015 Stan, but way, way harder.
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Post by temporary21 Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:18 pm

I don't see it because his ranking would have forced him to have to smash through 3 of the big guns at once. One maybe

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Post by Calder106 Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:35 pm

Might not have had to. Think he had just got to number 4 when he had his first long lay off. Matches against him were rarely easy for the top guys (Olympic semi 2012, Wimbledon semi 2013 good examples). Had he stayed fit I reckon he would have won a couple more.

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Post by HM Murdock Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:43 pm

temporary21 wrote:I don't see it because his ranking would have forced him to have to smash through 3 of the big guns at once. One maybe
His ranking would have him seeded to smash through 3 of the big guns. The actual requirement to go through the big guns would have been less frequent.

But why assume he wouldn't be top 4 himself? He was only 245pts behind Murray in 2009.

As at the end of 2009, Murray's career had been 1 slam runner up, 1 slam SF and 4 Masters wins. Del Potro, who is a year younger, had a slam win and a slam SF but no Masters wins. Were they really so different at that point?

Bear in mind too, that the 'Big 4' haven't been a Big 4 since, what, 2013? Federer wasn't there in 2013. Murray wasn't there in 2014. Rafa is not there now.

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Post by temporary21 Mon 07 Sep 2015, 4:58 pm

Not so sure, would still have needed to smash through 2, which he did once, but I dont think he would have been able to do it again. Not in 2010 with Rafa, or 2011 with Novak, 2012 would have been his best chance, WAS his best chance, but couldnt do it.

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US Open Day 7 - I Have The Chardy-nay, So Let's Dance To The Maka-rena And The Fog On The Tyne - Page 2 Empty Re: US Open Day 7 - I Have The Chardy-nay, So Let's Dance To The Maka-rena And The Fog On The Tyne

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