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Pro12: Benetton Treviso v Edinburgh Rugby 12th Sept

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cakeordeath
Manky-Flanker
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Imperialbigdave
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Tattie Scones RRN
Nematode
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EWT Spoons
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Post by EWT Spoons Mon 07 Sep 2015, 9:49 am

Benetton Treviso   v   Edinburgh Rugby
Saturday 12th September 2015,
KO 16:10 GMT
Stadio Monigo

Referee: Gary Conway (IRFU, 4th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Giuseppe Vivarini, Claudio Blessano
Citing Commissioner: Stefano Marrama (FIR)
TMO: Carlo Damasco (FIR)

Apparently being shown on TV – RAI…nope me neither
TV RAI

Treviso form

Last 3 Matches
5/9/15 Munster 18 - 13 Treviso
16/5/15 Treviso 13 - 17 Scarlets
8/5/15 Leinster 10 - 0 Treviso

Edinburgh form

Last 3 Matches
4/9/15 Edinburgh 16 - 9 Leinster
16/5/15 Edinburgh 23 - 36 Leinster
8/5/15 Dragons 19 - 5 Edinburgh


Teams:

Treviso

15. Jayden Hayward
14 Ludovico Nitoglia
13 Tommaso Iannone
12 Andrea Pratichetti
11 Simone Ragusi
10 Sam Christie
9 Chris Smylie

1 Alberto De Marchi
2 Roberto Santamaria
3 Rupert Harden
4 Duncan Naude
5 Tom Palmer
6 Marco Barbini
7 Dean Budd
8 Robert Barbieri

Replacements
Luca Bigi
Matteo Zanusso
Simone Ferrar
Filippo Gerosa
Jean-Francis Montauriol
Braam Steyn
Alberto Lucchese
James Ambrosini

Edinburgh

1 Sutherland
2 Cochrane
3 Andress
4 McKenzie
5 Toolis
6 Du Preez
7 Grant (C)
8 Manu

9 Kennedy
10 Burleigh
11 Hoyland
12 Beard
13 Dean
14 Fife
15 Tonks

Subs - Turner, Dell, Berghan, Toolis, Watson, Fowles, Johnston, Cuthbert


Last edited by EWT Spoons on Fri 11 Sep 2015, 2:49 pm; edited 4 times in total

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Post by EWT Spoons Mon 07 Sep 2015, 9:50 am

After the nervy but probably deserved win over Leinster, hopefully Edinburgh can build upon that and get a win over the Italians.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 07 Sep 2015, 9:53 am

Excellent work EWT Spoons.

Dare I predict that this is one we really ought to win with something to spare??

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Post by RDW Mon 07 Sep 2015, 9:57 am

Thanks spoons.

We should definitely be targeting the win, although they ran Munster close at the weekend.

Shame we aren't playing Zebre - what a shambles they are!

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Post by EWT Spoons Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:03 am

Having a quick glance through the Italian WC squad, it would seem they've lost 8 players (could be slightly more or less, it was a very quick glance) to the national team.  In theory it should be a game we would expect to win with relative comfort.

Italian WC squad

Forwards: Leonardo Ghiraldini (Leicester), Davide Giazzon (Treviso), Andrea Manici (Zebre); Matias Aguero (unattached), Martin Castrogiovanni (Racing 92), Dario Chistolini (Zebre), Lorenzo Cittadini (Wasps), Michele Rizzo (Leicester); Valerio Bernabo (Zebre), Joshua Furno (Newcastle), Marco Fuser (Treviso), Quintin Geldenhuys (Zebre); Mauro Bergamasco (unattached), Francesco Minto (Treviso), Sergio Parisse (captain, Stade Francais), Samuela Vunisa (Saracens), Alessandro Zanni (Treviso).

Backs: Edoardo Gori (Treviso), Guglielmo Palazzani (Zebre), Marcello Violi (Zebre); Tommaso Allan (Perpignan), Carlo Canna (Zebre); Tommaso Benvenuti (Bristol), Michele Campagnaro (Exeter), Gonzalo Garcia (Zebre), Luca Morisi (Treviso); Angelo Esposito (Treviso), Leonardo Sarto (Zebre), Giovanbattista Venditti (Newcastle); Andrea Masi (Wasps), Luke McLean (Treviso).

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:18 am

Zanni, Gori and McLean are big losses for Treviso. Whilst I'm not sure we'll be in 5 pointer territory I'd like to think we'd win this comfortably.

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Post by RDW Mon 07 Sep 2015, 11:03 am

I don’t think much has changed since last season really – if we have the upper hand up front we are probably going to win games.  Our backs looked better on Friday, but I’m not convinced they are good enough to make up for shortcomings up front (i.e. the Glasgow way!).

Given the pack we can currently put out I think we stand a good chance.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 07 Sep 2015, 11:13 am

I do think there were signs against Leinster that the team are more willing to take some risks, particularly with the offloads. Clearly a work in progress but both Manu and Du Preez were keeping the ball alive to good effect. I also thought Cochrane was particularly dynamic in the loose, got over the ball really well at the breakdown a couple of times.

Any news on Chris Dean?

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Post by RDW Mon 07 Sep 2015, 11:23 am

Nope, but he was up and about walking and talking after the game. As long as he wasn't saying 'where am I?' he should hopefully be OK.

If not then bringing Tonks in and shifting Burleigh and Beard out one would be fine by me.

Tonks needs to get his act together though - he was very poor on Friday.

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Post by EWT Spoons Mon 07 Sep 2015, 11:33 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Nope, but he was up and about walking and talking after the game.  As long as he wasn't saying 'where am I?' he should hopefully be OK.

If not then bringing Tonks in and shifting Burleigh and Beard out one would be fine by me.

Tonks needs to get his act together though - he was very poor on Friday.

Hopefully it was just because he was devastated about missing out on the WC squad and needed a week to get his head together.  It must be a crushing blow to work that hard towards a goal and then not achieve it.

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Post by RDW Mon 07 Sep 2015, 11:36 am

He had also been training with the Scotland squad during the week as cover for Maitland.

Still doesn’t excuse missed kicks to touch though!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 07 Sep 2015, 12:12 pm

Tonks had a poor cameo, but I thought he looked sharp in the warm-up game at 10. As you say, he didn't train with the team that week and came into the match cold.

I'd start Tonks at 10 against Treviso, with Burleigh and Beard in the centres. If fit, I'd have Chris Dean on the bench.

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Post by George Carlin Mon 07 Sep 2015, 1:02 pm

Nice job with the thread Mr Spoons.

Not sure what else to say about this game other than the fact that Edinburgh just needs more of the same. Treviso actually ran Munster to within 5 points in Cork last week, so they will be no mugs but I still expect Edinburgh to take them and if Edinburgh really want a top 6 finish this year, they should expect to administer a proper wedgie themselves.
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Post by BigGee Mon 07 Sep 2015, 10:40 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Nope, but he was up and about walking and talking after the game.  As long as he wasn't saying 'where am I?' he should hopefully be OK.

If not then bringing Tonks in and shifting Burleigh and Beard out one would be fine by me.

Tonks needs to get his act together though - he was very poor on Friday.

Don't be surprised if Dean does sit out the week after a head knock, in the current climate of thought, rushing him back would not be very clever. Its a long season and he will get plenty more games,

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 08 Sep 2015, 9:27 am

BigGee wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Nope, but he was up and about walking and talking after the game.  As long as he wasn't saying 'where am I?' he should hopefully be OK.

If not then bringing Tonks in and shifting Burleigh and Beard out one would be fine by me.

Tonks needs to get his act together though - he was very poor on Friday.

Don't be surprised if Dean does sit out the week after a head knock, in the current climate of thought, rushing him back would not be very clever. Its a long season and he will get plenty more games,

Well we can do without him if needed for this weekend. Tonks, Burleigh and Beard can form the midfield, with Andries "leader" Strauss as a sort of impact sub.

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Post by Nematode Tue 08 Sep 2015, 10:34 am

The real concern lies in whether or not AS can find a decent goal kicker. I'd almost consider drafting in George Horne at SH to kick.

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Post by RDW Tue 08 Sep 2015, 10:40 am

I think Fowles only missed one kick - Cuthbert missed the others.

Fowles' kicking was pretty good in pre season too so hopefully he'll do the job for us.

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Post by Tattie Scones RRN Tue 08 Sep 2015, 10:50 am

Is it me or does Fowles look anything but a rugby player. He just doesn't look right but I can't quite put my finger on it.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 08 Sep 2015, 10:55 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think Fowles only missed one kick - Cuthbert missed the others.

Fowles' kicking was pretty good in pre season too so hopefully he'll do the job for us.

Yeh, but the kick that Fowles missed was a complete sitter and he wasn't even close. A reliable kicker would never have missed that (unless called Gavin Hastings).

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Post by cp10 Tue 08 Sep 2015, 11:12 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I think Fowles only missed one kick - Cuthbert missed the others.

Fowles' kicking was pretty good in pre season too so hopefully he'll do the job for us.

Yeh, but the kick that Fowles missed was a complete sitter and he wasn't even close. A reliable kicker would never have missed that (unless called Gavin Hastings).

He missed two penalties and 1 converstion. Was he not kicking into the wind and the wind had increased from the previous kick he got? And the other one was from the touchline after the Hoyland's try? Not sure of the last penalty.

He'll now be working with Chris Paterson to improve his kicking so it'll get better.


Last edited by cp10 on Tue 08 Sep 2015, 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by RDW Tue 08 Sep 2015, 11:15 am

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Is it me or does Fowles look anything but a rugby player. He just doesn't look right but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Probably fair to say that it is just you....! Headscratch

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Post by George Carlin Tue 08 Sep 2015, 11:30 am

Edinburgh is getting the Pro 12 final next May.

So if Edinburgh are planning to win the league, then this is probably the year that they should do it.
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Post by Nematode Tue 08 Sep 2015, 11:49 am

Is it that out of the question that Edinburgh could make the top 4?

The squad is good and as long as there aren't significant injuries, it seems to be well covered for the RWC and 6 Nations. The pack looks like it can cope with any in the pro12 and when the likes of Dickinson, Ford, Nel, Denton and Gilchrist all come back it will be even stronger. SHC looks the real deal and the backline is starting to look more exciting with Hoyland, Tonks, Scott and Burleigh in particular.

Add to that Alan Solomons as coach, who deserves a place in Scottish Rugby folklore for his transformation of Edinburgh IMO, and maybe the prospect of playing in more intimate grounds, maybe this season Edinburgh might be grabbing the headlines instead of Glasgow?


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Post by RDW Tue 08 Sep 2015, 11:56 am

It's been one game - I certainly ain't getting carried away yet.last season we beat Munster away to start off with then lost to Connacht at home.

Also, European run aside the best Solomons has done is 8th place!

We certainly have the best squad for a number of years and much more stability, but Top 6 would be a real achievement I think.

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Post by EWT Spoons Tue 08 Sep 2015, 11:57 am

Nematode wrote:Is it that out of the question that Edinburgh could make the top 4?

The squad is good and as long as there aren't significant injuries, it seems to be well covered for the RWC and 6 Nations. The pack looks like it can cope with any in the pro12 and when the likes of Dickinson, Ford, Nel, Denton and Gilchrist all come back it will be even stronger. SHC looks the real deal and the backline is starting to look more exciting with Hoyland, Tonks, Scott and Burleigh in particular.

Add to that Alan Solomons as coach, who deserves a place in Scottish Rugby folklore for his transformation of Edinburgh IMO, and maybe the prospect of playing in more intimate grounds, maybe this season Edinburgh might be grabbing the headlines instead of Glasgow?

You been on the glue this morning mate?

Solvent abuse, there's no excuse! Hug

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 08 Sep 2015, 2:25 pm

cp10 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I think Fowles only missed one kick - Cuthbert missed the others.

Fowles' kicking was pretty good in pre season too so hopefully he'll do the job for us.

Yeh, but the kick that Fowles missed was a complete sitter and he wasn't even close. A reliable kicker would never have missed that (unless called Gavin Hastings).

He missed two penalties and 1 converstion. Was he not kicking into the wind and the wind had increased from the previous kick he got? And the other one was from the touchline after the Hoyland's try? Not sure of the last penalty.

He'll now be working with Chris Paterson to improve his kicking so it'll get better.

I only recall him missing one, but it was a sitter and regardless of the wind a good kicker would have got close from that distance. Cuthbert's kicks were more speculative from memory. I'm not a huge fan of the half way line boomers. A good kicker from hand (and Tonks and Burleigh are both decent) should be giving us an attacking lineout within the opposition 22. With lineouts and mauls so difficult to defend, I'd far rather we focused on that.

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Post by RDW Thu 10 Sep 2015, 8:44 am

Not a lot to be said about this game apparently!

Will be interesting to see what happens if Coman returns - he was unavailable last week for 'personal reasons' apparently.

So who do you drop - Du Preez, Manu, Grant or Watson? I don't think you should drop any of them for him, but he has been made club captain!

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Post by jimbopip Thu 10 Sep 2015, 8:47 am

Just in passing; I was watching the Luvvies v Ladyboys and MrsPip wandered into the living room,
"Does Barbie know Ken is playing scrum half for the MFL then?" she enquired in that way she has.

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Post by RDW Thu 10 Sep 2015, 8:52 am

He certainly ain't helping the MFL reputation!

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Post by George Carlin Thu 10 Sep 2015, 9:13 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:He certainly ain't helping the MFL reputation!

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With the lycra stretch chain mail vest, he would be a prime target for the well dressed men of Old Compton Street, London W1.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 10 Sep 2015, 9:20 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Not a lot to be said about this game apparently!

Will be interesting to see what happens if Coman returns - he was unavailable last week for 'personal reasons' apparently.

So who do you drop - Du Preez, Manu, Grant or Watson? I don't think you should drop any of them for him, but he  has been made club captain!

Coman shouldn't be involved in the XV, not with Du Preez and Manu covering 6 and 8. Simply put, he isn't as good a rugby player as those two. He should probably be on the bench. I'd drop Grant actually, starting Watson at 7 with Coman on the bench. Nothing against Grant at all, but he isn't hanging around for long and purely on rugby terms I think Watson is a better fit with Du Preez and Manu.

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Post by George Carlin Thu 10 Sep 2015, 9:23 am

I really want 6 Du Preez 7 Watson 8 Manu to be Edinburgh's regular starting loosie combo and so I hope that Solly sets that in granite in the usual way that he does.
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Post by RDW Thu 10 Sep 2015, 9:26 am

It is a shame for Roddy Grant because I hold him in very high esteem as an Edinburgh legend, but I tend to agree that he should be fazed out this year. I actually think he suits our style better than Watson does – Roddy is all about the tight work and mauling, whereas Watson is a far more dynamic player. Saying that, Solomons is trying to bring in a more up-tempo game plan.

I just think it would be a shame for Roddy’s career at Edinburgh to fizzle out, but that is professional sport I suppose!

Will be very interested to see what happens with today’s team selection.

And this is all before Denton comes back into the mix!

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Post by EWT Spoons Thu 10 Sep 2015, 9:34 am

There is no reason Coman should come straight back into the side from an ability perspective, but Solly made him captain for a reason so I fear he'll probably make an appearance.

I guess though if he had to come back in for a game I would rather it was against one of the Italian teams.

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Post by George Carlin Thu 10 Sep 2015, 9:34 am

I don't like having to leave Denton on the bench but that is what I would do (even after the World Cup is over) to have the above three start.

Mr Epic Leadership himself has to realise that he is essentially just injury cover and tackle bag holder at the moment and that was the case the minute that Manu arrived.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 10 Sep 2015, 9:45 am

George Carlin wrote:I don't like having to leave Denton on the bench but that is what I would do (even after the World Cup is over) to have the above three start.

Mr Epic Leadership himself has to realise that he is essentially just injury cover and tackle bag holder at the moment and that was the case the minute that Manu arrived.

I'd actually agree with that. I think Denton will find himself used more as an impact sub which, in a World Cup year (when prominent WC players usually display fatigue towards the close of the season) could actually be a big positive for him in terms of game time management. Whether that works for him long term, with the potential of losing his Scotland place to Strauss, Du Preez (from next season), Wilson or Ashe is a different matter. For what it's worth I think he's been outstanding in the warm-up games and very much assured of his place at the moment, but Manu and Du Preez pose a genuine threat longer term for Edinburgh.

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Post by RDW Thu 10 Sep 2015, 10:07 am

I may have said this before, but I see Edinburgh’s back row resources to be:

Blindside – Du Preez, Coman
Openside – Watson, Grant
Number 8 – Manu, Denton

With Ritchie and Bradbury just getting gametime wherever they can.  

Therefore I see Denton as mainly sharing the shirt with Manu and I think on that basis both players will see a lot of gametime.

I suspect orders may come from on high as well and Denton will be picked for the big games, especially pre-6N.

As for who benches out of all that lot, well, that is a good problem to have! Very Happy

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Post by EWT Spoons Thu 10 Sep 2015, 10:22 am

Based on the above, it looks like Hardie might actually end up with us. Given Grant is moving on at the end of his contract, having Hardie, Watson and Grant as options at 7 would make sense, which will then reduce down to Hardie and Watson.

I know he's apparently not signed up with a pro team yet, but I can't see the SRU letting him stay unattached after the WC.

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Post by RDW Thu 10 Sep 2015, 10:46 am

Solomons has gone on record saying that recruitment is finished as things currently stands so that suggests he isn’t coming. I’m sure things can change though if he’s struggling to get a club elsewhere (I’d be surprised) or SJ and VC persuade Solomons to take him on.

I’d take him in a flash, but it would mean even less gametime for Watson, and hardly any for Grant.

Long term though it certainly makes sense – our team would be 1/5th Highlanders!

I’d be surprised if an AP team didn’t snap him up though – especially since their season has been delayed for the RWC.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 10 Sep 2015, 10:55 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:I may have said this before, but I see Edinburgh’s back row resources to be:

Blindside – Du Preez, Coman
Openside – Watson, Grant
Number 8 – Manu, Denton

With Ritchie and Bradbury just getting gametime wherever they can.  

Therefore I see Denton as mainly sharing the shirt with Manu and I think on that basis both players will see a lot of gametime.

I suspect orders may come from on high as well and Denton will be picked for the big games, especially pre-6N.

As for who benches out of all that lot, well, that is a good problem to have! Very Happy

I think we should sign John Hardie to replace Grant, with Hardie becoming first choice and Watson providing cover.

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Post by EWT Spoons Thu 10 Sep 2015, 10:58 am

Aye it would be good if a AP team took him on, and a decent performance in the WC would help with that, but I would be amazed if the SRU aren't trying to tie him to a contract as well.

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Post by RDW Thu 10 Sep 2015, 11:01 am

The best solution might be for him to get a 1 year deal somewhere then sign for Edinburgh in the summer - means more gametime for Watson and probably even Ritchie and Bradbury. He can replace Grant when he leaves at the end of the season.

Getting a 1 year deal in a world cup year is probably easier said than done though!

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Post by EWT Spoons Thu 10 Sep 2015, 11:11 am

To be fair I think it would make sense for him to sigh straight away for us.  It would mean he could focus on the WC and then have a bit of time to acclimatise to the Pro12 without massive pressure to break into the team as 1st choice.  Meaning next season he is ready to replace Grant and there is no bedding in period.

I'm probably putting too much thought into this (or not enough), but it getting him on board now would be sensible.  Unless he goes elswhere in which case that would be good from a Scotland perspective as Watson and him would be getting game time most weeks.

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Post by George Carlin Thu 10 Sep 2015, 11:22 am

Agree with all of this. It hasn't been talked about much, but it must be pretty unsettling for Hardie to not know where he's going to be playing his club rugby this year.

I fully expect him to be playing well and firmly in the shop window for Aviva and French clubs during this tournament though. If the SRU are smart, they will sign him up now before the competition from the rest of the club world starts in earnest. Edinburgh is the most intuitive choice with Blake the Wonderfoetus at Glasgow, although I would swap Bordill, Sherlock and Blake (as a package) for Hardie at the moment.
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Post by RDW Thu 10 Sep 2015, 11:39 am

EWT Spoons wrote:To be fair I think it would make sense for him to sigh straight away for us.  It would mean he could focus on the WC and then have a bit of time to acclimatise to the Pro12 without massive pressure to break into the team as 1st choice.  Meaning next season he is ready to replace Grant and there is no bedding in period.

I'm probably putting too much thought into this (or not enough), but it getting him on board now would be sensible.  Unless he goes elswhere in which case that would be good from a Scotland perspective as Watson and him would be getting game time most weeks.

You speak sense - that is a fair point.

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Post by RDW Thu 10 Sep 2015, 11:40 am

George Carlin wrote:Agree with all of this. It hasn't been talked about much, but it must be pretty unsettling for Hardie to not know where he's going to be playing his club rugby this year.

I fully expect him to be playing well and firmly in the shop window for Aviva and French clubs during this tournament though. If the SRU are smart, they will sign him up now before the competition from the rest of the club world starts in earnest. Edinburgh is the most intuitive choice with Blake the Wonderfoetus at Glasgow, although I would swap Bordill, Sherlock and Blake (as a package) for Hardie at the moment.

Got to agree with you there - although there is no room for him at Glasgow it is very much quantity not quality just now!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 10 Sep 2015, 12:18 pm

George Carlin wrote:Agree with all of this. It hasn't been talked about much, but it must be pretty unsettling for Hardie to not know where he's going to be playing his club rugby this year.

I fully expect him to be playing well and firmly in the shop window for Aviva and French clubs during this tournament though. If the SRU are smart, they will sign him up now before the competition from the rest of the club world starts in earnest. Edinburgh is the most intuitive choice with Blake the Wonderfoetus at Glasgow, although I would swap Bordill, Sherlock and Blake (as a package) for Hardie at the moment.

Thanks but no thanks!


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Post by cp10 Thu 10 Sep 2015, 1:43 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Based on the above, it looks like Hardie might actually end up with us.  Given Grant is moving on at the end of his contract, having Hardie, Watson and Grant as options at 7 would make sense, which will then reduce down to Hardie and Watson.

I know he's apparently not signed up with a pro team yet, but I can't see the SRU letting him stay unattached after the WC.

Spys have told me Grant has bought a house outside Edinburgh. Change of plan?

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Post by RDW Thu 10 Sep 2015, 1:45 pm

Was there any real evidence that he was looking to move back to Africa other than 'someone said so on V2'??

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 10 Sep 2015, 1:48 pm

No idea! Even if he isn't leaving, I still want Hardie!

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