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US Open Day 8 - Will Rojer need the Vasselin for his Lipsky? Will Kontinen's collide?

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Post by JuliusHMarx Mon 07 Sep 2015, 1:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

Order of play
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/22713811

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Post by Jahu Tue 08 Sep 2015, 8:50 am

Andy also did some distraction on Kevs serve.

His behaviour was subpar for a GS winner.

Andy needs some quality daddy time.
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Post by Guest Tue 08 Sep 2015, 8:51 am

Scum daddy love? Wink

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Post by HM Murdock Tue 08 Sep 2015, 8:54 am

Wow, Big Kev!

I wouldn't actually consider it an enormous surprise though. I know from his performance against Djokovic at Wimbledon that, when he's on, he almost unplayable.

The serve is brilliant but he also has good hands at the net, a big forehand and is capable of nailing his BHDTL. I see in the comments that he was returning well too. If every component of his game is firing, he's a very tough opponent.

I sense change in the air in tennis. Half of the quarter finalists here have single handed backhand. Attacking tennis is being rewarded. It's hard to imagine this happening a few years ago.

Novak is rather distorting the picture but, behind his relative dominance, things feel different to me.

I've long argued that tennis has not been as attritional as many have claimed.

What we've had is a period where 2-3 very good players have had brilliant defensive skills.

Yes, conditions have helped them execute those skills. But as some of those players have dipped, they've not been replaced by more of the same. We've seen Wawrinka step up. Gasquet is having a renaissance. Cilic won a slam. Players like Anderson are having career best years. Federer is still able to strut his stuff.

That doesn't point to conditions being hopeless skewed toward grinders.

I don't doubt that the tour needs more variety in surface speed. But I'm increasingly sceptical of the idea that "tennis has become too attritional". What I see is that some top players have become too attritional. Two of those players won't win a slam this year and I suspect the third is about to start working very hard to hold back the tide.

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Post by bogbrush Tue 08 Sep 2015, 9:01 am

Jahu wrote:Happy to see Kev win, sure now KingRaf will say he is as SouthAfrican as Djoko is a serbian little prince from Monaco, but thats fine, a good win for Kev Laugh

Fed looking better, will crush Gasket in 3 quick ones.

Good win for Stan too.


Go Lopez Go!!!!
If you're looking for Djokovic to fall before the final, who's your favourite between Cilic & JWT?
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Post by Jahu Tue 08 Sep 2015, 9:04 am

bb, Djoko will go to final, sadly, hope he eats a bad hot-dog and gets sick Laugh

I would love JWT to win, Cilic is more boring then Raonic.

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Post by Jahu Tue 08 Sep 2015, 9:05 am

legendkillarV2 wrote:Scum daddy love? Wink

Maybe the baby will settle Andys nerves, he is back to fighting with himself, something Lendle fixed.

You yet a daddy, boy? Wink
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Post by Guest Tue 08 Sep 2015, 9:11 am

Wouldn't say Andy is fighting with himself, just that for him to generate the power behind shots like the big hitters is not going to happen. Andy can put weight behind the ball, but there are guys who can hit harder. I think he has played the most matches this year out of the top 10. Not the recipe for Slam glory.

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Post by Jahu Tue 08 Sep 2015, 9:17 am

Guess Grass at W is still his best shot.

Toronto and Cincy seem to have drained Andy and to a degree Djoko too.
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Post by sirfredperry Tue 08 Sep 2015, 9:33 am

Have not seen any of the match, but very surprised Anderson won. Yes, the South African gave Djoko an awful fright at Wimbledon, but I would have thought Andy would have been able to cope with him.
 However much people would like to see Murray attack more, it's just not his natural game. There have been times - notably the USO semi in 08 when he demolished Rafa - when the Scot has been able to play very offensively. But he seems far more comfortable playing defensively.  
 The person happiest with Murray's exit will be GB DC captain Leon Smith who will get his main man back many days earlier than expected for the Australia tie.
  Reckoned Fed would see off Isner and surprised the sets were as close as they were. Mind you, stats show that Isner was even bombing down his SECOND serve which only goes to show that you must win the tiebreaks against him as you're not going to break him very often.

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Post by bogbrush Tue 08 Sep 2015, 10:17 am

sirfredperry wrote:Have not seen any of the match, but very surprised Anderson won. Yes, the South African gave Djoko an awful fright at Wimbledon, but I would have thought Andy would have been able to cope with him.
 However much people would like to see Murray attack more, it's just not his natural game. There have been times - notably the USO semi in 08 when he demolished Rafa - when the Scot has been able to play very offensively. But he seems far more comfortable playing defensively.  
 The person happiest with Murray's exit will be GB DC captain Leon Smith who will get his main man back many days earlier than expected for the Australia tie.
  Reckoned Fed would see off Isner and surprised the sets were as close as they were. Mind you, stats show that Isner was even bombing down his SECOND serve which only goes to show that you must win the tiebreaks against him as you're not going to break him very often.
I was more than happy with the score; the stat about Isner not dropping his serve at the USO since 2013 had me bothered. It really is critical to protect your own serve against such a guy!

Sounds like the 2nd set could easily have gone the other way (a 0-40 escape for Federer followed by retrieving a mini break in the TB).
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Post by dummy_half Tue 08 Sep 2015, 10:32 am

My impression is that Andy's form has dipped after Montreal. Could be fatigue or could just be that you can't sustain peak performance though the entire season. Anderson played well, but remember how Andy had his number quite comfortably at Queens...

If you look at what he has done in MS and GS level events (plus wins at Queens and Munich), he's been consistently very good:

Aus Open - Lost final to Djokovic
Indian Wells - Lost SF to Djokovic
Miami - Lost F to Djokovic
Monte Carlo - Absent
Madrid - Won
Rome - Withdrew round 3
RG - Lost SF to Djokovic
Wimbledon - Lost SF to Federer
Montral - Won
Cinci - Lost SF to Federer
USO - Lost R4 to Anderson

So it's Andy's first (actual) defeat in a 1000+ tournament this year that was before the SF and to someone other than Djokovic or Federer. I think it shows a lot about how Murray has changed our expectations of British tennis players that this could be considered a somewhat disappointing result.

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Post by shivfan Tue 08 Sep 2015, 10:33 am

And coincidentally, his worst Grand Slam performance is when his coach Amelie Mauresmo is not there....

Murray must be hoping that she returns from maternity leave sooner rather than later.
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Post by Guest Tue 08 Sep 2015, 10:37 am

Whereas Federer won his match in the tie breaks against Isner, Murray lost his match in the tie breaks against Anderson. Murray's on court moaning and swearing must have provided encouragement and commitment to Anderson as his body was tiring. Federer on the other hand remains dispiritingly implacable.

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Post by Born Slippy Tue 08 Sep 2015, 10:40 am

Murray's been superb this season. Laver's comment about Mauresmo and Bjorkman is incredibly wide of the mark. They have both done an amazing job with him.

I suspect there is an element of fatigue. Chasing the number 2 ranking was worth the risk given the potentially huge reward but the gamble didn't pay off. That said, whilst I thought fatigue was apparent in Cincy I thought he looked fine last night. His movement was supreme - even in the 4th set. Kevin produced 4 hours of tennis from the Gods and, as a Murray fan, whilst on another day he might well have found a way to win, I can't fault either effort or tactics.

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Post by bogbrush Tue 08 Sep 2015, 11:05 am

dummy_half wrote:My impression is that Andy's form has dipped after Montreal. Could be fatigue or could just be that you can't sustain peak performance though the entire season. Anderson played well, but remember how Andy had his number quite comfortably at Queens...

If you look at what he has done in MS and GS level events (plus wins at Queens and Munich), he's been consistently very good:

Aus Open - Lost final to Djokovic
Indian Wells - Lost SF to Djokovic
Miami - Lost F to Djokovic
Monte Carlo - Absent
Madrid - Won
Rome - Withdrew round 3
RG - Lost SF to Djokovic
Wimbledon - Lost SF to Federer
Montral - Won
Cinci - Lost SF to Federer
USO - Lost R4 to Anderson

So it's Andy's first (actual) defeat in a 1000+ tournament this year that was before the SF and to someone other than Djokovic or Federer. I think it shows a lot about how Murray has changed our expectations of British tennis players that this could be considered a somewhat disappointing result.

Great observation. Seriously impressive tennis too.
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Post by bogbrush Tue 08 Sep 2015, 11:07 am

Nore Staat wrote:Whereas Federer won his match in the tie breaks against Isner, Murray lost his match in the tie breaks against Anderson.  Murray's on court moaning and swearing must have provided encouragement and commitment to Anderson as his body was tiring.  Federer on the other hand remains dispiritingly implacable.
Well.... yes, but no. The tie breaks reflected the flow of the match, with Federer getting almost all the break opportunities and much better returning stats. I know what you mean but in both cases the tie breaks were representative of the greater battle.
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Post by sirfredperry Tue 08 Sep 2015, 11:20 am

Murray's on-court demeanour does give his opponent encouragement but he's hardly likely to change now at the age of 28.
Fed's poker face is reminiscent of Borg. Johnny Mac said that when he won the famous Wimbledon 1980 tiebreak against Bjorn he expected to romp home in the 5th. Instead, said Mac, there was Borg looking totally unflustered despite blowing numerous Championship points. It's difficult not to show emotion, but some of the greats have managed it.

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Post by banbrotam Tue 08 Sep 2015, 11:50 am

I'd still love to know what the thought process was when deciding to follow up the Davis Cup with Washington Rolling Eyes

Then to add to the impression of befuddlement, he freely admits he's have skipped Cincy if he'd done better at Washington

I've a better idea for next year Andy - don't do Washington or Cinci picard

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Post by Born Slippy Tue 08 Sep 2015, 12:07 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Whereas Federer won his match in the tie breaks against Isner, Murray lost his match in the tie breaks against Anderson.  Murray's on court moaning and swearing must have provided encouragement and commitment to Anderson as his body was tiring.  Federer on the other hand remains dispiritingly implacable.
Well.... yes, but no. The tie breaks reflected the flow of the match, with Federer getting almost all the break opportunities and much better returning stats. I know what you mean but in both cases the tie breaks were representative of the greater battle.

Die Murray not have much greater returning stats and break points than Kev? I think at the end of set 2 Kev had played

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Post by bogbrush Tue 08 Sep 2015, 12:17 pm

Born Slippy wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:Whereas Federer won his match in the tie breaks against Isner, Murray lost his match in the tie breaks against Anderson.  Murray's on court moaning and swearing must have provided encouragement and commitment to Anderson as his body was tiring.  Federer on the other hand remains dispiritingly implacable.
Well.... yes, but no. The tie breaks reflected the flow of the match, with Federer getting almost all the break opportunities and much better returning stats. I know what you mean but in both cases the tie breaks were representative of the greater battle.

Die Murray not have much greater returning stats and break points than Kev? I think at the end of set 2 Kev had played
Not much different I think. The match was 37% return points won by KA, 35% by AM; 4/9 bps KA, 3/11 AM.

I think the return performances are very similar, to be fair, whereas Feds are miles better than Isner's. That's my best defence.
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Post by laverfan Tue 08 Sep 2015, 12:25 pm

legendkillarV2 wrote:I do wonder how much fizz is in the court. When they played Wimbledon 2014 Kev's 2nd serve speed was around the 104-05 mark. Last night he was getting into the teens!

Isner was serving 120+ second serves on Ashe and 130+ (mph) first serves. I prefer Soderling to these, the new generation of 'hard' hitters.

From http://www.usopen.org/en_US/scores/stats/day14/1408ms.html

Isner v Federer

Fastest serve - 140 MPH , 126 MPH
Average 1st serve speed - 126 MPH , 114 MPH
Average 2nd serve speed - 115 MPH , 93 MPH

From http://www.usopen.org/en_US/scores/stats/day14/1406ms.html

Anderson v Murray

Fastest serve - 138 MPH , 129 MPH
Average 1st serve speed - 125 MPH , 111 MPH
Average 2nd serve speed - 107 MPH, 85 MPH


Last edited by laverfan on Tue 08 Sep 2015, 12:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by laverfan Tue 08 Sep 2015, 12:34 pm

My apologies to Murray fans for being so harsh on him. It is unconscionable for someone of Murray's caliber to be losing to KA, no matter how hard KA was serving or not. KA is no Karlovic. If Murray fans are happy with the player he has become under current tutelage I will take my fandom elsewhere (the droplets of British blood in me tell me otherwise). He is the same age and talent (IMVHO) as Djokovic and yet has umpteen MSes but the lack of GSes is where I have an issue with. Yes Clay was great, but no trophy, no cigar. He can build a title list a mile long, but the lack of big ones is what makes me sore.

Djokovic @W made KA play a fifth set. There was no such thing yesterday.

Robredo did the same thing to Federer at USO as KA did to Murray.

KAs scouting team can teach Team Murray some lessons on scouting. Laugh

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Post by laverfan Tue 08 Sep 2015, 12:35 pm

Nore Staat wrote:Whereas Federer won his match in the tie breaks against Isner, Murray lost his match in the tie breaks against Anderson.  Murray's on court moaning and swearing must have provided encouragement and commitment to Anderson as his body was tiring.  Federer on the other hand remains dispiritingly implacable.

Very happy to see you on v2, NS. rose Despite my Murray diatribe, it is not such a bad place, is it?

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Post by LuvSports! Tue 08 Sep 2015, 12:45 pm

As John Inverdale famously said: "Rose c****d spectacles," from BS Wink .

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Post by laverfan Tue 08 Sep 2015, 12:48 pm

@LS... I am not trying to bash BS (or any other Murray fan). I will get over this loss in a day or two. kiss

Just need some more magic at USO.

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Post by LuvSports! Tue 08 Sep 2015, 12:56 pm

Dw LF, I know you aren't and I know what would happen if you did.

You'd get hold of a cocker spaniel, tie BS down on a chair with a potty on his head. Then pop his todger between two floury baps and shout "Dinner time, Fido!"

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Post by HM Murdock Tue 08 Sep 2015, 1:04 pm

Laverfan, I've never seen you so animated! I can't recall you ever even being irritated before and now Andy has you spitting feathers!

I had no idea you were so invested in him.

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Post by bogbrush Tue 08 Sep 2015, 1:12 pm

Me too. This on the level of socal after the 2011 RG semi-final and Fogninigate!

It's like watching Bjorn Borg bash the Hell out of his racquet and tell the Umpire he's an incompetent fraud.
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Post by Guest Tue 08 Sep 2015, 1:21 pm

laverfan wrote: Very happy to see you on v2, NS. rose Despite my Murray diatribe, it is not such a bad place, is it?

Good to see this place going strong under yours and Julius stewardship. My tennis lounge is now a ghost town, the rafalites have flown the coup (post - Raffalites?), Murray Moaners are no longer moaning publicly. Everyone still waiting for the next young guns to show themselves.

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Post by bogbrush Tue 08 Sep 2015, 1:26 pm

Nore Staat wrote:
laverfan wrote: Very happy to see you on v2, NS. rose Despite my Murray diatribe, it is not such a bad place, is it?

Good to see this place going strong under yours and Julius stewardship.  My tennis lounge is now a ghost town, the rafalites have flown the coup (post - Raffalites?), Murray Moaners are no longer moaning publicly.  Everyone still waiting for the next young guns to show themselves.  
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Post by Born Slippy Tue 08 Sep 2015, 1:28 pm

laverfan wrote:My apologies to Murray fans for being so harsh on him. It is unconscionable for someone of Murray's caliber to be losing to KA, no matter how hard KA was serving or not. KA is no Karlovic. If Murray fans are happy with the player he has become under current tutelage I will take my fandom elsewhere (the droplets of British blood in me tell me otherwise). He is the same age and talent (IMVHO) as Djokovic and yet has umpteen MSes but the lack of GSes is where I have an issue with. Yes Clay was great, but no trophy, no cigar. He can build a title list a mile long, but the lack of big ones is what makes me sore.

Djokovic @W made KA play a fifth set. There was no such thing yesterday.

Robredo did the same thing to Federer at USO as KA did to Murray.

KAs scouting team can teach Team Murray some lessons on scouting. Laugh

I think this is the first time I have ever been non-critical of a Murray slam defeat. If anything, I am just amazed that credit isn't been properly given to Kev for an other-worldly performance. If Murray goes 50/20 in a match, with his insane skills at also forcing errors then he wins. For Kev to hit over 80 clean winners against Murray at the US Open is up there with the all time great underdog performances.

Laver's overall comment here is entirely fair. Murray has failed, in the past, to make the most of his gifts. However, I fail to see how she can criticise Mauresmo and Bjorkman, who are working to re-introduce variety combined with aggression. Yes, he can still improve (he uses the chip-charge return way too rarely at the moment) but all the signs this year are positive that he is moving the right tactical direction. It is also true that Kev is not Karlovic - Murray would have beaten the Dr easily yesterday. The difference was that Kev found a returning/rallying level which applied sustained pressure, whilst finding line after line with his serve. I didn't think he was capable of that until last night. I am absolutely certain neither Dr Ivo or Isner are.

I stand by my comments that there was nothing wrong with Murray's tactics yesterday. The idea he could have been more aggressive on return is fanciful. He could have perhaps done slightly different things on his own serve but, ultimately, despite Kev's return being lightyears above his normal standard, Murray held comfortably in the vast majority of service games.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Tue 08 Sep 2015, 2:02 pm

First up it is a shame to see his run of consecutive slam QF's end after five years but for me I think the real keys to the result were three-fold. Kevin Anderson played a lot of superb stuff and showed new sides to his game such as ability to hit great volleys and his general level never really dipped. Murray had his chances but never took them enough and paid for it. He carved out more break point opportunities than Anderson but his conversion rate was poorer. Also when it became a marathon match then surely Murray's earlier long matches were never going to help either. Anderson deserved that win and I don't think, in context, it comes as all that much a surprise as Anderson was fresh out of winning a tournament whilst Murray has looked patchy here.
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Post by Henman Bill Tue 08 Sep 2015, 2:04 pm

You make some great arguments Born Slippy in your last post and scouting report on the previous page but the fact remains that this on paper this is a standout loss for a Murray who has largely only lost to the other big 4 in slams in recent years and hasn't lost at this stage of a slam for a while. And Murray himself said after the match "I don’t think this Kevin Anderson was massively different".

I watched the second half of the match, and while I don't really have the ability to argue about the tactics, my gut feeling was that Murray was missing some shots and playing average but not able to access his best. And he was, incidentally, chuntering a lot, even for him. Perhaps you are right about the tactics but the ability to actual execute the shots was missing a notch.

And winning at TB 7-0 is pretty much equivalent to holding to love and breaking to love.

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Post by Henman Bill Tue 08 Sep 2015, 2:09 pm

Speaking of 7-0 the guardian reports that

In 429 tiebreakers played by Isner, he had never dropped one 7-0.

“Seven-love obviously is a pretty good score against John,” said Federer.

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Post by bogbrush Tue 08 Sep 2015, 2:28 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Speaking of 7-0 the guardian reports that

In 429 tiebreakers played by Isner, he had never dropped one 7-0.

“Seven-love obviously is a pretty good score against John,” said Federer.
Understatement GOAT.
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Post by Born Slippy Tue 08 Sep 2015, 2:55 pm

HB - sure I agree. On another day he would have made the stop volley to give himself break point at the start of the 4th. Break there and its a different outcome. Same with the 3 bps in the first set. However, those are relatively minor executional issues. They aren't evidence of a fundamental flaw in his gameplan requiring replacement of the coaching team.

I have seen a lot of Anderson and I think Andy is doing him something of a disservice. The Kevin I can recall doesn't flick half volley backhand winners down the line nor does he play insane half-volleys onto the baseline at 5-5 in a tiebreak. He was playing the gameplan he always tries against Andy but he executed it far better than ever before.

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Post by bogbrush Tue 08 Sep 2015, 3:37 pm

The other thing I noticed (from both guys) was a keenness to take the 2nd serves very early. It wasn't quite SABR (oh for Gods sake how I hate hearing them talk about that on the commentary) territory, but it was very aggressive. That bothered both but it was a real threat on Murrays 2nd serve.

If more players start emulating this idea I think Murray, finally, has no choice but to get some beef into that shot. The days of the chipped return to start the rally that he then wins anyway might be ending.
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Post by laverfan Tue 08 Sep 2015, 3:47 pm

Born Slippy wrote:Laver's overall comment here is entirely fair. Murray has failed, in the past, to make the most of his gifts.

Thanks for being fair, BS. I hope to see better performances at O2 and at AO 2016. Hug

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Post by laverfan Tue 08 Sep 2015, 3:50 pm

HM Murdock wrote:Laverfan, I've never seen you so animated! I can't recall you ever even being irritated before and now Andy has you spitting feathers!

I had no idea you were so invested in him.

It was just heat of the moment, I should get less emotionally involved, it just saps the little energy I have to handle Tennis these days. Hug

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Post by laverfan Tue 08 Sep 2015, 3:53 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:He carved out more break point opportunities than Anderson but his conversion rate was poorer.

Break points won - Anderson  - 4/9 (44%), Murray - 3/11 (27%).

The second serve needs a bit more work, too. Anderson slapped a CC FH winner (a la Djokovic) on one of the second serves. One the USO commentators observed that Murray was serving the same exact patterns throughout the match, which IMO, should have been changed after the first set TB, but it was not.

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Post by coolpixel Tue 08 Sep 2015, 4:29 pm

I think all this is criminal behavior from Federer.

Why can't that pensioner just exit in the first week and let the rest of us get on with resigned acceptance of his imminent departure?

Why does the blighter have to dish out hope?

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Post by Born Slippy Tue 08 Sep 2015, 4:52 pm

bogbrush wrote:The other thing I noticed (from both guys) was a keenness to take the 2nd serves very early. It wasn't quite SABR (oh for Gods sake how I hate hearing them talk about that on the commentary) territory, but it was very aggressive. That bothered both but it was a real threat on Murrays 2nd serve.

If more players start emulating this idea I think Murray, finally, has no choice but to get some beef into that shot. The days of the chipped return to start the rally that he then wins anyway might be ending.

Murray has done this consistently since the FO last year (some of his returning there was SABR type territory). His hand skills last night on some of Anderson's second serve bombs were immense. Anderson was a surprise. He was always going to go for broke on the 2nd serve but he executed incredibly. I actually thought Murray's second serve was hit with a lot more variety of pace and direction than normal.

Laver's point (from the US commentary) about service patterns I think relates to the first serve. I would need to watch back but I felt he went out wide with the slider a lot on the first point of the game. He got burned doing it a lot and (I think) the first serve to that side in the decisive tiebreak was annihilated (Djokovic v Fed style) - Anderson was clearly ready for it.

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Post by banbrotam Tue 08 Sep 2015, 5:06 pm

Henman Bill wrote:my gut feeling was that Murray was missing some shots and playing average but not able to access his best. And he was, incidentally, chuntering a lot, even for him. Perhaps you are right about the tactics but the ability to actual execute the shots was missing a notch.

Exactly HB. It was Murray at the best he could be for the night, which was nowhere near his true best and hence he finally ran out of aces (after the many escapes in Cinci and earlier rounds of the Open)

And he was nowhere near is best because, he (and possibly Novak) fails to realise that as he gets older he needs to manage his schedule properly


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Post by banbrotam Tue 08 Sep 2015, 5:08 pm

laverfan wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:He carved out more break point opportunities than Anderson but his conversion rate was poorer.

Break points won - Anderson  - 4/9 (44%), Murray - 3/11 (27%).

The second serve needs a bit more work, too. Anderson slapped a CC FH winner (a la Djokovic) on one of the second serves. One the USO commentators observed that Murray was serving the same exact patterns throughout the match, which IMO, should have been changed after the first set TB, but it was not.


The second serve has improved, but is still a liability at times - even more so when he's a step slower than normal. If you notice the second serve and the forehand are the shots that disappear when he's not playing to his usual high level

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Post by Henman Bill Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:13 am

i'd questioned whether it's improved at all, I've lost count of the times Murray's second serve is swatted away like a weak club player.

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Post by banbrotam Wed 09 Sep 2015, 1:27 pm

For once the Beeb are actually writing some sense. I need a lie down Wink

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/34188529

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Post by YvonneT Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:50 pm

Looking at banbrotam's point about Murray's scheduling. It's certainly not as simple as blaming the loss on that - for one thing, Kevin Anderson played the same 3 weeks as Murray and then the full week at Winston-Salem as well - and there are other reasons why Murray could be subpar or poorly prepared. However, it is interesting to note that the last time Murray lost early in a slam, here in 2010, he also played 3 events in the lead up including the title in Canada and SF in Cincy and won the US Open Series. So maybe he shouldn't be in any hurry to repeat that.

He's certainly got a challenge for the rest of the year to get the balance between playing, training and resting correct, especially if GB make the Davis Cup final. If he's only playing the 2 Masters (which is what he's said), it could cost him a number of ways - mandatory zero pointers for missed obligations, missing most of the Asian swing where he normally does very well and going in cold to the Masters. Add to changes to the offseason training plans to avoid being away from home. Will be interesting to see how it works out.

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Post by Born Slippy Wed 09 Sep 2015, 11:57 pm

Yvonne - did you think he looked below par? I thought he looked dire in Cincy but his movement and all-round game looked ok against Kev.

As for the rest of the season, I find it very hard to believe he will just play the two Masters and WTF. I think he will play at least one other event.

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Post by banbrotam Thu 10 Sep 2015, 7:49 am

I'm not really blaming the loss on that. Credit has to be given to Anderson and any player no matter how much better in theory can get beaten on the day as Novak found out last year

I'm actually at my most critical about Murray for years. I don't think it takes an idiot to deduce that if you have a very important Davis Cup tie and play all legs (which also follows a very intensive (and successful) spring and early summer) you then need to reduce your normal schedule leading up to the US Open.

Murray increased it picard  The Washington entry was the most oddest thing I've known him to do since he pulled out of Dubai at the last minute in 2011.

He then, in a worrying brain-fade, went back on his decision not to enter Cinci. Why? Because he got knocked out early at Washington. Yes, I can't work out that logic either. Didn't it occur to him, his Washington defeat was a warning sign that perhaps he needed to drop one of the Masters. Hasn't he noticed the he's played nearly twice as much as Roger??!!  Wink

He basically played something like three out of five weeks, whilst Roger probably did nothing more strenuous than give his kids a piggy back. A ridiculous and unnecessary schedule

If his forehand speed was far less here that at the other slams, then he wasn't playing "OK" and then there has to be a reason for it. And as he's clearly acknowledged the error or overplaying, given his Autumn plans, I'd bet all the tea in Shanghai that he thoroughly regrets his summer schedule

Could easily be as simple that he underestimates the impact Davis Cup has on the body and mind - after all it is new territory for him and if you remember Novak was similarly overcooked in 2010 before he led Serbia to their victory.

He's a quick learner though. And I do think he will only enter the two Masters (OK, possibly a lead up before Shanghai). In fairness he used to work off a schedule similar to Novak and Roger. It appears last years success in getting his mojo back, which coincided both with an increased schedule and a new coach, got him carried away

Well done to Anderson, but we've clearly saw last night what happens when he plays an on-form Top 5 player

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Post by YvonneT Thu 10 Sep 2015, 8:54 am

Born Slippy wrote:Yvonne - did you think he looked below par? I thought he looked dire in Cincy but his movement and all-round game looked ok against Kev.
I'm no expert (I read this forum because I'm interested in a range of views of people who know a lot more technically than me) but I thought the tactics were fine but the execution was just below where it needed to be. That could be down to physical or emotional fatigue or just one of those days. I'd definitely agree that the notion that he should change coaches because of that loss is a bit odd.

Anderson though was superb - it's all very well saying, as BB does, that the 6-1 6-1 loss to Roger indicates the weaknesses in his game (it does indeed) but the 5 set loss to Djokovic at Wimbledon is the indication of the strengths of it - and if, as he did on Monday, he manages to maximise all the strengths and maintain them under pressure then the weaknesses become less of an issue. I did think that when Murray turned it round from 0-1 to 3-1 in the third that Anderson might fade away as he did at Wimbledon but he didn't so fair play to him for learning from that.

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