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PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

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PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo: - Page 5 Empty PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

Post by Guest Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:42 pm

First topic message reminder :

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Or maybe, just maybe everyone decided to pitch their hat into the ring and see what happened

Are all teams eligible?

Well considering they were all asked to tender for it that would mean they were

Marty, because the criteria has never been made public, none of us will never know.

Sure if we had facts then we wouldn't have these conspiracy theories. Where would be the fun in that?

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Post by Guest Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:56 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm quoting you next time Ireland have Wayne Barnes Fly.

To be fair most Irish fans don't claim him to be bias, we just claim hes a crap ref

Best ref in the Prem so plenty to complain about!

Doesn't say much about about the quality of refs in the AP then given that he guesses whats going on at rucks at scrums


That's a bit rich when you look at our refs. At least you know what you are getting with Wayne Barnes.

Oh you do, sure enough. Inconsistent reffing in every game.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:57 pm

Ha. At least I've turned it around from the Welsh Irish bitterness! Top quality ref though in all seriousness. Just have to keep the breakdown clean and play to the rules. Peyper seems to have a similar outlook in how fast to roll away and it took England by surprise too following how much Lacey lets you get away with. It's all about timing and how much you can get away with.

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Post by Sin é Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:57 pm

Scarletspiderman wrote:Also the ref that presided over their controversial victory at PYS last season.

That was a draw. What was controversial about that game?
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Post by Guest Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:00 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha. At least I've turned it around from the Welsh Irish bitterness! Top quality ref though in all seriousness. Just have to keep the breakdown clean and play to the rules. Peyper seems to have a similar outlook in how fast to roll away and it took England by surprise too following how much Lacey lets you get away with. It's all about timing and how much you can get away with.

Only for the first 20 minutes, or so, and then he will decide that laws don't matter so much. In all seriousness, I really don't like him mad .... as a ref, of course Smile

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Post by LordDowlais Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:01 pm

I do not have a problem with Wayne Barnes, he punishes cheating. I have much bigger issues with our very own, "best ref in the world" Nigel Owens. He lets teams cheat, because he is with the spirit of the game FFS.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:01 pm

He's actually good if you watch him in a neutral match.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:02 pm

Barnes that is.

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Post by marty2086 Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:03 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ha. At least I've turned it around from the Welsh Irish bitterness! Top quality ref though in all seriousness. Just have to keep the breakdown clean and play to the rules. Peyper seems to have a similar outlook in how fast to roll away and it took England by surprise too following how much Lacey lets you get away with. It's all about timing and how much you can get away with.

Id beg to differ, he does ping players for not rolling away quick enough and that's just right but he misses a lot and doesn't always see players holding on when someones got in cleanly and misses too many offsides and players coming in from the side

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Post by Guest Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:03 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:He's actually good if you watch him in a neutral match.

So you're saying he's only poor when reffing the Irish? Might be true Very Happy

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Post by SecretFly Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:03 pm

The Welsh play a brand of rugby that is Most in the Spirit of the game. If Nigel reffed you lot, you'd have had three world cups by now....

Ease up on the purity stuff Lord. Wales are as wise to dark art quick shuffle fluffs as the rest of us...but they do it at quicker speed to look more honest about it Wink

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Post by LordDowlais Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:04 pm

SecretFly wrote:The Welsh play a brand of rugby that is Most in the Spirit of the game.  If Nigel reffed you lot, you'd have had three world cups by now....

Ease up on the purity stuff Lord.  Wales are as wise to dark art quick shuffle fluffs as the rest of us...but they do it at quicker speed to look more honest about it Wink

Some do it a lot more than others. Whistle

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Post by SecretFly Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:05 pm

No.. you do your fair share's worth... Almost the Spirit of the Game posterboys, you might say.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:06 pm

Munchkin wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:He's actually good if you watch him in a neutral match.

So you're saying he's only poor when reffing the Irish? Might be true Very Happy

I can't honestly remember past games in detail bar the Wales one. There was a lot of moaning but he was very good in that match. based on that I suggest you watch him in a neutral game and judge that's all. Sometimes we can all get a little hett up when watching our team lose.

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Post by Guest Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:07 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The Welsh play a brand of rugby that is Most in the Spirit of the game.  If Nigel reffed you lot, you'd have had three world cups by now....

Ease up on the purity stuff Lord.  Wales are as wise to dark art quick shuffle fluffs as the rest of us...but they do it at quicker speed to look more honest about it Wink

Some do it a lot more than others. Whistle

It's getting close to your quitting time, LD. Have you planned out your dramatic flounce yet?

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Post by SecretFly Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:08 pm

I guess we just sigh at our record with him 7&1/2. He's not biased...but he sure don't like our style...even when we tell him how we're going to play in advance and he says 'fine'.......

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Post by Guest Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:09 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:He's actually good if you watch him in a neutral match.

So you're saying he's only poor when reffing the Irish? Might be true Very Happy

I can't honestly remember past games in detail bar the Wales one. There was a lot of moaning but he was very good in that match. based on that I suggest you watch him in a neutral game and judge that's all. Sometimes we can all get a little hett up when watching our team lose.

I've watched him in other games. He's not great in them either. Not as bad as when he last reffed Ireland, but still not great. I don't like how he refs at all, and it's not down to my own sense of bias. There's Irish refs that I don't have much time for either.

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Post by Stone Motif Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:15 pm

SecretFly wrote:I guess we just sigh at our record with him 7&1/2.  He's not biased...but he sure don't like our style...even when we tell him how we're going to play in advance and he says 'fine'.......

In fairness, you shouldn't need a referee to tell you how you play is illegal.

'Fine' obviously meant 'fine you do that an I'll ping you'....
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Post by Sin é Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:20 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I do not have a problem with Wayne Barnes, he punishes cheating. I have much bigger issues with our very own, "best ref in the world" Nigel Owens. He lets teams cheat, because he is with the spirit of the game FFS.

I don't think rugby is the sport for you then because it is very reliant on the interpretations of the laws.

I note you had nothing to say about the couple of wins Welsh teams had with Dudley reffing Wink What happened to his Irish bias there?
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Post by Stone Motif Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:26 pm

Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I do not have a problem with Wayne Barnes, he punishes cheating. I have much bigger issues with our very own, "best ref in the world" Nigel Owens. He lets teams cheat, because he is with the spirit of the game FFS.

I don't think rugby is the sport for you then because it is very reliant on the interpretations of the laws.

I note you had nothing to say about the couple of  wins Welsh teams had with Dudley reffing Wink  What happened to his Irish bias there?

Maybe his bosses had a word
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Post by SecretFly Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:26 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I guess we just sigh at our record with him 7&1/2.  He's not biased...but he sure don't like our style...even when we tell him how we're going to play in advance and he says 'fine'.......

In fairness, you shouldn't need a referee to tell you how you play is illegal.

'Fine' obviously meant 'fine you do that an I'll ping you'....

Tell that to the ballboy.

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Post by Sin é Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:27 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I do not have a problem with Wayne Barnes, he punishes cheating. I have much bigger issues with our very own, "best ref in the world" Nigel Owens. He lets teams cheat, because he is with the spirit of the game FFS.

I don't think rugby is the sport for you then because it is very reliant on the interpretations of the laws.

I note you had nothing to say about the couple of  wins Welsh teams had with Dudley reffing Wink  What happened to his Irish bias there?

Maybe his bosses had a word

His IRFU bosses or PRO12 bosses?
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Post by LordDowlais Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:28 pm

Sin é wrote:I note you had nothing to say about the couple of wins Welsh teams had with Dudley reffing Wink What happened to his Irish bias there?

Why do you not listen/take time to read, what I have been saying ? Most of the refereeing in our league is shoite, but when you add in "potential bias" this is a phrase I learned off the Irish on here mind, when asked why certain refs cannot ref certain provinces. Then we get all this shoite. It seems you are happy with this level of officiating though, but that is to be expected when the decisions seem to always go the way of the big teams. Rolling Eyes

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Post by SecretFly Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:38 pm

OK
Potential bias: Definition -

Provincial Stormtrooper Boot Boys.


So Lord, Italian and Scottish refs for all subsequent Irish and Welsh games (even Welsh and Irish derbies)?

Or English and French ones?

Or if we want to break the bank...fly in SA and NZ ones?
How do we overcome the 'Potential' coefficient???

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Post by LordDowlais Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:41 pm

Why cant the Irish see the pitfalls of our league ?

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Post by SecretFly Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:46 pm

Why can't you answer the question?

Who fills in? Now. Not waiting 7 years for the perfect plan to train up better refs. Where do we find an end to potential bias right now, at the beginning of a season?


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Post by LordDowlais Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:48 pm

SecretFly wrote:Why can't you answer the question?  

Who fills in?  Now.  Not waiting 7 years for the perfect plan to train up better refs.  Where do we find an end to potential bias right now, at the beginning of a season?


Why not have refereeing teams ?
Why not have referees paid by the league ?
Why not have referees that ref the breakdown and the scrum properly ?
Why not have TMO's who will make the right decisions ?
Why do we not have refs who are not questionable to anyone other than their own unions ?

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Post by marty2086 Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:54 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Why can't you answer the question?  

Who fills in?  Now.  Not waiting 7 years for the perfect plan to train up better refs.  Where do we find an end to potential bias right now, at the beginning of a season?


Why not have refereeing teams ?
Why not have referees paid by the league ?
Why not have referees that ref the breakdown and the scrum properly ?
Why not have TMO's who will make the right decisions ?
Why do we not have refs who are not questionable to anyone other than their own unions ?

When individuals get called up to ref tests or act as touch judges how can you have refereeing teams?
Who says refs aren't paid by the league?
This is a problem throughout rugby not just the league
Which decisions have TMOs got wrong?
I think you mean answerable and they are, they answer to Ed Morrison who is in charge of referees for the Pro12

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Post by SecretFly Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:00 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Why can't you answer the question?  

Who fills in?  Now.  Not waiting 7 years for the perfect plan to train up better refs.  Where do we find an end to potential bias right now, at the beginning of a season?


Why not have refereeing teams ?
Why not have referees paid by the league ?
Why not have referees that ref the breakdown and the scrum properly ?

Why not have TMO's who will make the right decisions ?

Why do we not have refs who are not questionable to anyone other than their own unions ?

-Why would refereeing teams have less potential bias?  
Oh they'd be all from different Nations and get familiar with each other?  Is that going to stop the cat-calls if an Italian sideline official forces his ref to blow and end the dreams of a win for a team that felt they were winning?  "That Italian did it on purpose, he knows our lads were meeting Treviso next!"

-Sure, let's have them paid by the League.  Money is money.

-Number Three is opinion. Opinions differ.

-Number Four is opinion.  Opinions differ.

-All refs are answerable to their own Union.  Are you saying Unions don't have a vested interest in their Regions/Provinces/teams winning? Sorry, misread you. So refs answerable to League? Going on the last post, that seems to be happening.

So all in all, I fully agree on the 2nd point.  Pay refs through the League.


Last edited by SecretFly on Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by The Great Aukster Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:02 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The truth is, that the crap referees are turning people away from our league. Also, the issue of potential bias is causing a massive issue in our league.

LD please point me in the direction of said truth (as asked for many times before but as yet not forthcoming). Where is the evidence that "the crap referees are turning people away"?

BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias. Either something is biased or it's not, so are you saying the referees are biased - yes or no?

The evidence was seen yesterday at the Liberty Stadium, people were leaving early whilst shaking their heads as the ref had spoiled the game.  

Also there is such thing as potential bias because certain Irish refs are not allowed to ref certain provinces. OK


What percentage of people left because the ref had spoiled the game?
When did they leave?
What specific incident convinced them the ref had spoiled the game?

On TV it looked to me that some could have been leaving because they were disappointed with losing the game at the death. Or maybe they wanted to miss the traffic, or get ahead of the queue at the bar. Fans leave games all the time early even if their team is winning so your "evidence" is no more than speculation with nothing to back it up.

With regard to the assertion that "Irish refs are not allowed to ref certain provinces", again where is the evidence? Where does it say this? Where is the link to so-called "potential" bias?

SSpiderman's definitions imply that EVERY referee (and indeed everyone on the planet) is already biased, and SF has distilled that to the individual choice of a referee in how that is manifested or suppressed. In short there is no evidence that nationality has any impact on bias, nor even that any perceived "potential" bias has any impact on the health of the league.

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Post by Sin é Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:07 am

A really interesting documentary on RTE1 at the moment (see below for details). They talk about the Norman invasion in Ireland. The bit of interest here is that they talk about a chroniclar of the time called Gerald of Wales who bad mouthed the native Irish, referring to them as being barbaric, lazy, untrustworthy, having horrible habits etc.

Just shows the influence this bloke has had to this day on our Welsh neighbours and their views of the Irish.


After Braveheart: Episode 1: Duration: 1hrs 15mins
The first in a two-part docu-drama revealing the historical events that followed those portrayed in the 1995 film Braveheart, in which William Wallace led the Scots in a revolt against English rule. The programme reveals how a Scottish king tried to drive the English out of Ireland in 1315.
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:23 am

Sin é wrote:
Scarletspiderman wrote:Also the ref that presided over their controversial victory at PYS last season.

That was a draw. What was controversial about that game?

Yes it was a draw, sorry I remember it as a loss as it felt that way come the final whistle.

If I remember rightly the whole last five minutes with some questionable decisions.  And there was a stamping in front of him he ignored (I believe he was even informed by his assistant about it).
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:31 am

Aukster - not my definitions, but the dictionary definitions.
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Post by PhilBB Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:09 am

SecretFly wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
BTW - there is no such thing as 'potential' bias.

Of course there is. That's why Nigel Owens doesn't referee Wales. The element of doubt is removed. This has been pointed out plenty of times.

Who reffed the Leinster game?  You only whine when its one of your Regions with either an Irish ref, sideline official or TMO....and you pick the one that suits your recurrent agenda everytime.  If it's a Welsh ref you choose to find fault with the Irish guy on the side...that the Welsh ref didn't overrule - when Owens often does.  Blame the guy on the side - he's Irish.  If the guy on the side and the guy with the whistle isn't Irish...move on to the TMO...He's Irish.

We get it Chunky.  You don't like us.  We're disgraceful.  We'll try to struggle on through your hatred.

Crikey, talk about playing the man and not the issue.

It seems endemic.
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Post by PhilBB Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:12 am

marty2086 wrote:

Yes you said because Walsh moved to the ARU but if Owens doesn't ref Wales to remove potential bias but how is there not potential bias then in a man from NZ reffing NZ and a man born in France to a French father reffing France?

You never told me that?

Does bias only exist when it suits your argument? When the unions are paying them?

The Unions are always paying them. When will this sink in, Marty?

I'm not sure how often Walsh reffed the Kiwis but there was always an unease when Rolland reffed the French for the very reasons you've mentioned.

If you can see the issue with POTENTIAL bias in international refereeing, you've lost the right to ignore it at domestic level where players and officials are paid from the same purse.
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Post by SecretFly Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:41 am

PhilBB wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

We get it Chunky.  You don't like us.  We're disgraceful.  We'll try to struggle on through your hatred.

Crikey, talk about playing the man and not the issue.

It seems endemic.

Scarlet could read more Phil.  Phil could read more Chunky.  Chunky - well, he doesn't have to read anyone else, he has all the facts in his own head.

But I didn't see a lot of you around last year, Phil, if any (a belated welcome to the mad party) - so it might be best to read chunks of Chunky from last year to articulate for you why he gets the attention he does now from the sources he gets it from (which again I declare he loves/enjoys/feels chuffed about).

Yes, something is endemic on these special Theme pages and dedicated Threads - bile.

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Post by SecretFly Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:47 am

PhilBB wrote:

If you can see the issue with POTENTIAL bias in international refereeing, you've lost the right to ignore it at domestic level where players and officials are paid from the same purse.

It's the persistent Rose of Tint that blinds Welsh posters to the POTENTIAL bias of their own officials, paid as they are by WRU, that is the issue here.

Welsh Posters to Irish Posters all last year: "Your officials are all corrupt and biased"
Irish posters to Welsh posters at a very pointed part of the season: "One of your guys allegedly threatened to force a loss on one of our sides because he couldn't get a parking space"

You decide for yourself who cries wolf more often.....


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Post by Sin é Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:53 am

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Yes you said because Walsh moved to the ARU but if Owens doesn't ref Wales to remove potential bias but how is there not potential bias then in a man from NZ reffing NZ and a man born in France to a French father reffing France?

You never told me that?

Does bias only exist when it suits your argument? When the unions are paying them?

The Unions are always paying them. When will this sink in, Marty?

I'm not sure how often Walsh reffed the Kiwis but there was always an unease when Rolland reffed the French for the very reasons you've mentioned.

If you can see the issue with POTENTIAL bias in international refereeing, you've lost the right to ignore it at domestic level where players and officials are paid from the same purse.

Phil, any actually evidence to suggest that Rolland favoured the French team when reffring?

Did he make the right call Red Carding Warburton in the last World Cup in your opinion?

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:19 am

SecretFly wrote:
Scarlet could read more Phil.  Phil could read more Chunky.  Chunky - well, he doesn't have to read anyone else, he has all the facts in his own head.

Not too sure I could read more Phil, as you put it. I've been on ScumV and elsewhere, so probably read more of his post than you.
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Post by SecretFly Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:33 am

Then you'll know he's a virtual carbon copy of Chunky as opinions go. Even has the same mannerisms in how he responds to specific comments....

As I said, if I didn't know better I'd say they were either very good friends or brothers..... or twins..


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Post by marty2086 Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:17 am

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Yes you said because Walsh moved to the ARU but if Owens doesn't ref Wales to remove potential bias but how is there not potential bias then in a man from NZ reffing NZ and a man born in France to a French father reffing France?

You never told me that?

Does bias only exist when it suits your argument? When the unions are paying them?

The Unions are always paying them. When will this sink in, Marty?

I'm not sure how often Walsh reffed the Kiwis but there was always an unease when Rolland reffed the French for the very reasons you've mentioned.

If you can see the issue with POTENTIAL bias in international refereeing, you've lost the right to ignore it at domestic level where players and officials are paid from the same purse.

I brought this up because your alter ego seems to suggest that bias exists only when money changes hands and that Rolland and Walsh had no bias because they were not paid by the NZRU or FFR.

You saying they are always paid by the union doesn't make it fact, its your opinion based on your assessment of it all

I can see the potential for bias, or at least the perception of it, especially with the likes of yourself about. I also know that when Rolland had to step in at the last minute to ref Leinster and Munster a few years ago, Munster had to opportunity to nix his appointment because he was a Leinster ref who once played for them. I also acknowledge that bias can exist outside of nationality and paymaster, that simply not liking a member of team, their style etc can influence refs but I choose to believe in their professionalism and that those appointing them also believe in it

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Post by Guest Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:18 am

The Chunky twins. Has a nice ring to it.

Phil wouldn't say if he thinks Irish refs cheat. They might have cheated, but he forgot Erm So the main bone of contention seems to be that even if they don't cheat, they could cheat! This is why they (the twins) have invented 'potential bias'. Another wee sound bite to go along with 'Colleagues'.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:20 am

Munchkin wrote:The Chunky twins. Has a nice ring to it.

Phil wouldn't say if he thinks Irish refs cheat. They might have cheated, but he forgot Erm So the main bone of contention seems to be that even if they don't cheat, they could cheat! This is why they (the twins) have invented 'potential bias'. Another wee sound bite to go along with 'Colleagues'.


Hang on a minute. It was the Irish members on here who first coined the phrase "potential bias" when we asked the question why don't certain referees officiate certain provinces. OK

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Post by Chunky Norwich Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:25 am

marty2086 wrote:

I can see the potential for bias

At last. Thank you.

Now we can see why there is a total discrepancy between PrO'12 level and international level. They effectively have different refereeing statutes.

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Post by Guest Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:27 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The Chunky twins. Has a nice ring to it.

Phil wouldn't say if he thinks Irish refs cheat. They might have cheated, but he forgot Erm So the main bone of contention seems to be that even if they don't cheat, they could cheat! This is why they (the twins) have invented 'potential bias'. Another wee sound bite to go along with 'Colleagues'.


Hang on a minute. It was the Irish members on here who first coined the phrase "potential bias" when we asked the question why don't certain referees officiate certain provinces. OK

I have only your word for that, LD, and if it's one of your facts, I will treat it as fiction.

It isn't the Irish posters using 'potential bias' as though 'potential bias' was hard evidence of actual bias influencing the outcome of games. Which is funny when you think that 'potential bias' has to mean no current bias.

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Post by Sin é Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:30 am

IMO Marty, I'd say that money would be the least motivating factor for a ref. There are a lot more pertinent issues. For instance, Wayne Barnes went to school and (presumably learned to play rugby in Wales). He should not be reffing international games that involve Wales because he would obviously have more empathy with how the Welsh play rugby.

And to take an Irish example, Rolland should not be reffing Munster games because he probably grew up getting the Poopie beaten out of him by Munster teams and Leinster would always have turned up their noses at the style of rugby that Munster played.

By the way Marty (Munster agreed to Roland reffing a Leinster v Munster game because he was retiring and he had never done one before!).



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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:31 am

Yet Barnes didn't favour them in the recent Ireland Wales game. And he's English.

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Post by Sin é Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:33 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

I can see the potential for bias

At last. Thank you.

Now we can see why there is a total discrepancy between PrO'12 level and international level. They effectively have different refereeing statutes.

What you don't take into account though is that say a Leinster ref potentially want the other provinces to lose because they are also Leinster's rivals.
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Post by Sin é Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:36 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yet Barnes didn't favour them in the recent Ireland Wales game. And he's English.

Barnes had a shocker in the 6Ns game of Wales v Ireland.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:39 am

He was very good. You lot need to get over the fact Wales were just better on the day and the ref didn't really get much wrong.

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Post by marty2086 Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:41 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

I can see the potential for bias

At last. Thank you.

Now we can see why there is a total discrepancy between PrO'12 level and international level. They effectively have different refereeing statutes.

Maybe you want to go back to the examples I have provided of Alain Rolland Steve Walsh and see that that isn't actually the case

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