PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

First topic message reminder :

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Or maybe, just maybe everyone decided to pitch their hat into the ring and see what happened

Are all teams eligible?

Well considering they were all asked to tender for it that would mean they were

Marty, because the criteria has never been made public, none of us will never know.

Sure if we had facts then we wouldn't have these conspiracy theories. Where would be the fun in that?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why is it good news thatt hey only want the Irish though? I thought you supported a Welsh team?

Because they only need to convince the Irish. Everybody else is already on board.

On board for what? Whos everybody else?

The Scots and Welsh are already in the whole BT Sport PRL Love triangle mate. As I've been saying fr 2 years now, the Irish are the stumbling block. But it's very encouraging to learn that noises are being made to overcome this.

Not the Italians though?

Save Welsh Rugby!!! F**k the Italians!


He no like Italiano.

By the sounds of it its got nothing to do with chunks its decided.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Not all Regions fans are on board either. Take LD as an example.

Unfortunately for him, when the BIL arises, he'll be forced to switch from a lame, incompetent, unviable, unfair league to a more posperous level playing field.

Dream on Chunks...never going to happen.

Anyhow carry on with the funny posts

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Not all Regions fans are on board either. Take LD as an example.

Unfortunately for him, when the BIL arises, he'll be forced to switch from a lame, incompetent, unviable, unfair league to a more posperous level playing field.

Merthyr will be Welsh prem champions by then.

"a more prosperous level playing field"

Chunky is a veritable Wind Up King. He can't truly believe some of this stuff. Beware Wray - he'll buy up and turn Dragons into Saracens West. And siphon all the best Welsh lads down to Saracens South. Beware the Promised Future.

The Great Aukster wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:the way that the IRFU is set-up is not good for everyone else.

This is your opinion fair enough, but surely such a sweeping statement should have at least some basis. Are you self-appointed to speak for the Scots and Italians as well?

Its such a bad setup that the Scots have the same structure and the Welsh have attempted to replicate elements of it with their dual contracts

marty2086 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:the way that the IRFU is set-up is not good for everyone else.

This is your opinion fair enough, but surely such a sweeping statement should have at least some basis. Are you self-appointed to speak for the Scots and Italians as well?

Its such a bad setup that the Scots have the same structure and the Welsh have attempted to replicate elements of it with their dual contracts

Duel and Duality. Dodger's doings.

marty2086 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:the way that the IRFU is set-up is not good for everyone else.

This is your opinion fair enough, but surely such a sweeping statement should have at least some basis. Are you self-appointed to speak for the Scots and Italians as well?

Its such a bad setup that the Scots have the same structure and the Welsh have attempted to replicate elements of it with their dual contracts

You see Marty that's the all pervasive insidious nature of the IRFU for you. They are not only destroying rugby in Ireland they're destroying it for everyone else too. If only there were more than a handful of enlightened souls in the world that knew this (even though they're all on this forum), then rugby in the NH could be saved.

Wait! Everything will be saved by BT Sport - once they own everyone there will be no IRFU monopoly anymore or conflict of interest...

... maybe they should think about taking over Specsavers too?

The Great Aukster wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:the way that the IRFU is set-up is not good for everyone else.

This is your opinion fair enough, but surely such a sweeping statement should have at least some basis. Are you self-appointed to speak for the Scots and Italians as well?

Its such a bad setup that the Scots have the same structure and the Welsh have attempted to replicate elements of it with their dual contracts

You see Marty that's the all pervasive insidious nature of the IRFU for you. They are not only destroying rugby in Ireland they're destroying it for everyone else too. If only there were more than a handful of enlightened souls in the world that knew this (even though they're all on this forum), then rugby in the NH could be saved.

Wait! Everything will be saved by BT Sport - once they own everyone there will be no IRFU monopoly anymore or conflict of interest...

... maybe they should think about taking over Specsavers too?

Its not like the IRFU and BT Sport have an existing relationship or anything and they haven't jumped on that bandwagon already

'As Official Communications Partner, the BT Sport logo features on the Ulster Rugby jersey sleeve and branding is also present within the stadium bowl; in the official Ulster Rugby match programme and also online.

BT have increased fan engagement through sponsorship of the ‘BT Cross-bar Challenge’ and ‘BT Tweet Seats’ which takes place at Kingspan Stadium before home PRO12 games. Ulster Rugby and BT seek to jointly engage fans by delivering cross media experiences such as the BT Fan Map and the BT Tag Spree which allowed fans at the Quarter Final last season to tag themselves online to win prizes.'

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/Team/Sponsors.aspx

SecretFly wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Sin é wrote:Mick Dawson (Leinster Rugby) said that he had been approached by a couple of English clubs who were only interested in taking in the Big 3 Irish Provinces (because of their travelling support).

Fair play the Irish travelling support is very strong during the European Cup games, however there are very few travelling fans for the Pro12 games.

Edit: cue the poor welsh attendances, or we don't travel to you because your abusive etc.

A lot of the travelling Irish Provincial support would come from Irish people living in the UK.

What I mean is that you do not see them turning up for Pro12 games, but you do see them turn up for Europe games.  What would make that any different in a E&I league (or I&E league if you want it that way).

European games are like International games.  Fans save up and plot and plan having the income to have a nice weekend.  But, even though IRFU gives all fans 30,000 each a year to come follow their boys, we're not all millionaires over here and just like the Welsh, cents must be counted and priorities made about when to travel and when to stay at home and build up the travel kitty

Your missing the point there. If the Irish do not bring that many fans during the Pro12 then it is unlikely they would be bringing large number of fans to an E&I league. So the 'only interested in taking in the Big 3 Irish Provinces (because of their travelling support)' theory does not really stand.

SecretFly wrote:What goalposts is that?

Did you ask a question?

Did I answer it?

Is home attendances at home Regional games not an issue now?  It was.

Am I honest when I say I heard complaints about ability to get to and from games last season?  I am.  Look back.

Did I say planes and ferries can be expensive things and therefore normal people save money for special occasions?  I did.

So what goalposts are you on about.  It seems you're interested in some kind of Mandatory Plan where fans are commanded to travel whether they can afford to or not.

So what about the Scottish and Italian attendances? These never seem to get mentioned on here. And generally the regional attendances get mentioned by the Irish far more than by anyone else. Oh it is almost like whatever the result, if the game is being played Wales slate amount of empty seats and as soon as there is a slight grumble from the crowd, accuse all the fans of being animals that put people of being officials, and stop others wanting to attend.

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that regional attendances are better than those in Ireland when compared to population?

Like, say the blues average 8k a season and ulster 18,000 - ulster has a population of around 1.2million (?) and cardiff and 'surrounding regional areas' has significantly less than that.

Not sure where I read it though, maybe Gwlad

gcBlues wrote:I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that regional attendances are better than those in Ireland when compared to population?

Like, say the blues average 8k a season and ulster 18,000 - ulster has a population of around 1.2million (?) and cardiff and 'surrounding regional areas' has significantly less than that.

Not sure where I read it though, maybe Gwlad

The BBC programme on the Scarlets started with one of those type facts, comparing the population of the region itself, compared to the city of Dublin.

I'm pretty sure that the regions get more % population attending than people realise.

Population Leinster - 2.6 million
Population Wales - 3 million

Munster area = 24,000 square km
Leinster area = 20,000 square km
Wales area - 20,000 square km

So why are the irish clubs so important?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Sin é wrote:Mick Dawson (Leinster Rugby) said that he had been approached by a couple of English clubs who were only interested in taking in the Big 3 Irish Provinces (because of their travelling support).

Fair play the Irish travelling support is very strong during the European Cup games, however there are very few travelling fans for the Pro12 games.

Edit: cue the poor welsh attendances, or we don't travel to you because your abusive etc.

A lot of the travelling Irish Provincial support would come from Irish people living in the UK.

What I mean is that you do not see them turning up for Pro12 games, but you do see them turn up for Europe games.  What would make that any different in a E&I league (or I&E league if you want it that way).

European games are like International games.  Fans save up and plot and plan having the income to have a nice weekend.  But, even though IRFU gives all fans 30,000 each a year to come follow their boys, we're not all millionaires over here and just like the Welsh, cents must be counted and priorities made about when to travel and when to stay at home and build up the travel kitty

Your missing the point there.  If the Irish do not bring that many fans during the Pro12 then it is unlikely they would be bringing large number of fans to an E&I league.  So the 'only interested in taking in the Big 3 Irish Provinces (because of their travelling support)' theory does not really stand.

I think the home support is more important. Broadcasters don't want half empty stadiums.

Sin é wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mick Dawson (Leinster Rugby) said that he had been approached by a couple of English clubs who were only interested in taking in the Big 3 Irish Provinces (because of their travelling support).

That's interesting, have you got a link to the quote?

No. But it was said around the time Leinster were playing Bath in Chumps Cup last april/may.

He said that he met a lot of Aviva chairmen at functions etc. who said that they would be interested in Leinster, Munster & Ulster. They only wanted clubs/provinces that would have big support.

That's very funny.

Imagine how good the Irish teams would be if they weren't held back by the IRFU. Leinster would be rolling in it, Ulster are funded by the Northern Ireland government (so shouldn't really be playing in the PrO'12) and Munster are the favoured team of so many.

Who wouldn't want them in a privately run league? Only a fool.

However, if they are still gerrymandered by blazers and run only for the benefit of the national team, no private owner would touch them with a bargepole.

See ERC shambles for evidence.

Munchkin wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:European games are like International games.  Fans save up and plot and plan having the income to have a nice weekend.  But, even though IRFU gives all fans 30,000 each a year to come follow their boys, we're not all millionaires over here and just like the Welsh, cents must be counted and priorities made about when to travel and when to stay at home and build up the travel kitty

Your missing the point there.  If the Irish do not bring that many fans during the Pro12 then it is unlikely they would be bringing large number of fans to an E&I league.  So the 'only interested in taking in the Big 3 Irish Provinces (because of their travelling support)' theory does not really stand.

I think the home support is more important. Broadcasters don't want half empty stadiums.

Possibly. I was thinking more along the lines of the clubs wanting to make sure that the Irish bring their support and atmosphere over with them, which is most certainly something that does not happen in the Pro12.

(p.s. the broadcasters can't really mind an empty stadium, they have Sky have been at PYS a fair few times).

gcBlues wrote:I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that regional attendances are better than those in Ireland when compared to population?

Like, say the blues average 8k a season and ulster 18,000 - ulster has a population of around 1.2million (?) and cardiff and 'surrounding regional areas' has significantly less than that.

Not sure where I read it though, maybe Gwlad

I've pointed out that fact for years.

What you're then faced with is lots of bemoaning about rugby being the fourth most popular sport in Ireland, despite it only facing Ice Hockey in Northern Ireland as a direct professional sport competitor. If you're lucky, you'll get 'ah, but, don't yaknow, we send tousands of da bois over on dat der Ryanair each weekend for da premier footie' nonsense.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:What goalposts is that?

Did you ask a question?

Did I answer it?

Is home attendances at home Regional games not an issue now?  It was.

Am I honest when I say I heard complaints about ability to get to and from games last season?  I am.  Look back.

Did I say planes and ferries can be expensive things and therefore normal people save money for special occasions?  I did.

So what goalposts are you on about.  It seems you're interested in some kind of Mandatory Plan where fans are commanded to travel whether they can afford to or not.

So what about the Scottish and Italian attendances?  These never seem to get mentioned on here.  And generally the regional attendances get mentioned by the Irish far more than by anyone else.  Oh it is almost like whatever the result, if the game is being played Wales slate amount of empty seats and as soon as there is a slight grumble from the crowd, accuse all the fans of being animals that put people of being officials, and stop others wanting to attend.

Don't think that's true. It isn't the Italians or Scots that are continually dreaming up accusation against the Irish. The Irish fans have every right to point out that maybe fans of the Regions should look to the Regions to get their own house in order, before accusing any other nation for their failings.

It isn't as if fans of the Regions don't complain about their own poor attendances.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

(p.s. the broadcasters can't really mind an empty stadium, they have Sky have been at PYS a fair few times).

The Scarlets got a bigger crowd for their last home game versus Treviso, than Munster did 2 weeks ago.

So Chunky, why are the irish so important?

No 7&1/2 wrote:So Chunky, why are the irish so important?

Important to who?

Munchkin wrote:

Don't think that's true. It isn't the Italians or Scots that are continually dreaming up accusation against the Irish. The Irish fans have every right to point out that maybe fans of the Regions should look to the Regions to get their own house in order, before accusing any other nation for their failings.

It isn't as if fans of the Regions don't complain about their own poor attendances.

Per population, our attendances are better than those in Ireland.

We have four professional teams within the driving time of Cork to Limerick.

Do get yourself a sense of perspective.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:(p.s. the broadcasters can't really mind an empty stadium, they have Sky have been at PYS a fair few times).

All of SKY's games so far this season have involved the Welsh regions, because they know where the tele audience is. So the myth the Irish would have us believe that sky only want to air games with the big three Irish provinces is bollox.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So Chunky, why are the irish so important?

Important to who?

To BT. To the English.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:(p.s. the broadcasters can't really mind an empty stadium, they have Sky have been at PYS a fair few times).

All of SKY's games so far this season have involved the Welsh regions, because they know where the tele audience is. So the myth the Irish would have us believe that sky only want to air games with the big three Irish provinces is bollox.

But Sin told me that Sky were only interested in the Irish market.

Was that, therefore, a load of nonsense from him/her?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So Chunky, why are the irish so important?

Important to who?

To BT. To the English.

Because they've got some good players I expect.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:So Chunky, why are the irish so important?

Important to who?

To BT. To the English.

I'd say that they are. I'm also aware of discussions being held, but the major hold up is the structure of Irish rugby.

Some good players. That's it? Measured against all this negativity?

Munchkin wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:What goalposts is that?

Did you ask a question?

Did I answer it?

Is home attendances at home Regional games not an issue now?  It was.

Am I honest when I say I heard complaints about ability to get to and from games last season?  I am.  Look back.

Did I say planes and ferries can be expensive things and therefore normal people save money for special occasions?  I did.

So what goalposts are you on about.  It seems you're interested in some kind of Mandatory Plan where fans are commanded to travel whether they can afford to or not.

So what about the Scottish and Italian attendances?  These never seem to get mentioned on here.  And generally the regional attendances get mentioned by the Irish far more than by anyone else.  Oh it is almost like whatever the result, if the game is being played Wales slate amount of empty seats and as soon as there is a slight grumble from the crowd, accuse all the fans of being animals that put people of being officials, and stop others wanting to attend.

Don't think that's true. It isn't the Italians or Scots that are continually dreaming up accusation against the Irish. The Irish fans have every right to point out that maybe fans of the Regions should look to the Regions to get their own house in order, before accusing any other nation for their failings.

It isn't as if fans of the Regions don't complain about their own poor attendances.

Oooh oooh oooh, so is that you pretty much admitting that the Irish moaning about Welsh attendances is pure wumming??!!!

Fair play to you for your honesty.

gcBlues wrote:I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that regional attendances are better than those in Ireland when compared to population?

Like, say the blues average 8k a season and ulster 18,000 - ulster has a population of around 1.2million (?) and cardiff and 'surrounding regional areas' has significantly less than that.

Not sure where I read it though, maybe Gwlad

GWlad

The Regions are supposed to represent more than a town/city. Although Ulster represents the whole of Ulster, obviously, not the whole of Ulster can attend games. It's just isn't practical, especially on a Friday.

Phil, not that I doubt you but post a link or don't make stuff up.

Munchkin wrote:

GWlad

The Regions are supposed to represent more than a town/city. Although Ulster represents the whole of Ulster, obviously, not the whole of Ulster can attend games. It's just isn't practical, especially on a Friday.

The Regions are not representative sides.

Sorry. You've got that wrong.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Phil, not that I doubt you but post a link or don't make stuff up.

A link to what?

Munchkin wrote:

gcBlues wrote:I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that regional attendances are better than those in Ireland when compared to population?

Like, say the blues average 8k a season and ulster 18,000 - ulster has a population of around 1.2million (?) and cardiff and 'surrounding regional areas' has significantly less than that.

Not sure where I read it though, maybe Gwlad

GWlad

The Regions are supposed to represent more than a town/city. Although Ulster represents the whole of Ulster, obviously, not the whole of Ulster can attend games. It's just isn't practical, especially on a Friday.

So one rule for Ulster and a different rule for the Welsh? Ha your sounding like an Irish ref now

The traveling from within the region to the regional home ground is not necessarily easy for us either. To go from Aberwystyth to Llanelli (Scarlets region to their home ground) on the Train you need to travel the length of Wales, into England, then down to Cardiff/Newport and then all the way west again. Not easy to do for any bloody kick off time.

Discussions being held but that the Irish are holding it up. That's a lie.

No 7&1/2 wrote:don't make stuff up.

Why is something that you're not aware of, always "made up"?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Discussions being held but that the Irish are holding it up. That's a lie.

Ok, fair enough. If you think so.

I know it's not a lie, however.

PhilBB wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mick Dawson (Leinster Rugby) said that he had been approached by a couple of English clubs who were only interested in taking in the Big 3 Irish Provinces (because of their travelling support).

That's interesting, have you got a link to the quote?

No. But it was said around the time Leinster were playing Bath in Chumps Cup last april/may.

He said that he met a lot of Aviva chairmen at functions etc. who said that they would be interested in Leinster, Munster & Ulster. They only wanted clubs/provinces that would have big support.

That's very funny.

Imagine how good the Irish teams would be if they weren't held back by the IRFU. Leinster would be rolling in it, Ulster are funded by the Northern Ireland government (so shouldn't really be playing in the PrO'12) and Munster are the favoured team of so many.

Who wouldn't want them in a privately run league? Only a fool.

However, if they are still gerrymandered by blazers and run only for the benefit of the national team, no private owner would touch them with a bargepole.

See ERC shambles for evidence.

Ah, your back Phil

I asked you yesterday whether you think Rolland made the right call sending off Warburton at the world cup? Could you answer now please?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:European games are like International games.  Fans save up and plot and plan having the income to have a nice weekend.  But, even though IRFU gives all fans 30,000 each a year to come follow their boys, we're not all millionaires over here and just like the Welsh, cents must be counted and priorities made about when to travel and when to stay at home and build up the travel kitty

Your missing the point there.  If the Irish do not bring that many fans during the Pro12 then it is unlikely they would be bringing large number of fans to an E&I league.  So the 'only interested in taking in the Big 3 Irish Provinces (because of their travelling support)' theory does not really stand.

I think the home support is more important. Broadcasters don't want half empty stadiums.

Possibly.  I was thinking more along the lines of the clubs wanting to make sure that the Irish bring their support and atmosphere over with them, which is most certainly something that does not happen in the Pro12.

(p.s. the broadcasters can't really mind an empty stadium, they have Sky have been at PYS a fair few times).

I would think the broadcasters do mind an empty stadium. Thinking back to that Scarlets v Ulster game last season, it was a great game for SKY, and although the stadium wasn't full, you could hardly describe it as empty. The atmosphere, I think, was pretty good.

A link then Chunky. Pretty easy to back your story up. And you really think the Irish are integral cos they have some good players over all the negativity you spout about them? They're worth that much to BT, that BT would be pushed into spending way over the actual market value?

Sin é wrote:

Ah, your back Phil

I asked you yesterday whether you think Rolland made the right call sending off Warburton at the world cup? Could you answer now please?

Yes, that was 100% the correct decision.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:don't make stuff up.

Why is something that you're not aware of, always "made up"?

Yes, I hate this about our forum. It's always, show me a link, get me the evidence. I was asked about evidence on this thread to show how bad refereeing is turning fans away. FFS. How can I provide a link for something I witnessed first hand at the stadium in which I was sitting and saw it.

No 7&1/2 wrote:A link then Chunky. Pretty easy to back your story up. And you really think the Irish are integral cos they have some good players over all the negativity you spout about them? They're worth that much to BT, that BT would be pushed into spending way over the actual market value?

I've no link to it, so by all means dismiss it if it doesn't fit your narrative.

Is the market value for Irish rugby €900,000 per season?

gcBlues wrote:I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that regional attendances are better than those in Ireland when compared to population?

Like, say the blues average 8k a season and ulster 18,000 - ulster has a population of around 1.2million (?) and cardiff and 'surrounding regional areas' has significantly less than that.

Not sure where I read it though, maybe Gwlad

Clutching at straws here trying to make yourselves feel better about your absolutely Poopie attendances.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:don't make stuff up.

Why is something that you're not aware of, always "made up"?

Yes, I hate this about our forum. It's always, show me a link, get me the evidence. I was asked about evidence on this thread to show how bad refereeing is turning fans away. FFS. How can I provide a link for something I witnessed first hand at the stadium in which I was sitting and saw it.

Anybody who doesn't understand that poor reffing will deter ticket buyers clearly doesn't buy tickets themselves.

No 7&1/2 wrote:A link then Chunky. Pretty easy to back your story up. And you really think the Irish are integral cos they have some good players over all the negativity you spout about them? They're worth that much to BT, that BT would be pushed into spending way over the actual market value?

Ah the old "No links = not true" argument. It's a real shame you have this mindset.

The Irish make for some great ties when the heat is on. They'd be great value in a British and Irish League when they aren't running the show keeping everybody else's head underwater.