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PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

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PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo: - Page 2 Empty PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:42 pm

First topic message reminder :

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Or maybe, just maybe everyone decided to pitch their hat into the ring and see what happened

Are all teams eligible?

Well considering they were all asked to tender for it that would mean they were

Marty, because the criteria has never been made public, none of us will never know.

Sure if we had facts then we wouldn't have these conspiracy theories. Where would be the fun in that?

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Post by SecretFly Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:05 pm

The players 'nobody had heard of' were often playing hard enough in Pro12 to get to the end stages or win the thing.  The players 'nobody had heard of' became some of the players everyone knows now.  
Is the sport about monkeying around in speedos and Rolex watches for the billboards or is it about breeding and playing best players through their tender years into their maturity and seeing them grow and win things.  Stars don't just happen, they have to be born and mature into their stardom.

Lord, you say we all needed the Pro12 because none of us were big enough to have 10 or 12 professional sides of our own to form domestic leagues?  
Well that truth remains a truth even within the Pro12 format.  We're still too small to compete on our own on two levels - 'Club' League level and then International.  
There is always the need to compromise to battle hardest.  

We in Ireland chose HEC to find and prepare our best International prospectives.  Wales seems to have used International itself to find their best choices.  We both had our priorities designed to keep rugby alive in our respective Nations and we both went ahead and functioned under those priorities.  Provinces Still sent players and teams to Pro12 that were good enough to compete in and often win the competition.  Welsh Star players didn't always save their best efforts for Pro12 itself as they waited for International duty to show their true intentions.

So the circle keeps going round.  "You're wrong because you did that!  No you're wrong because you did the opposite!"  Hmmm....we're both simply trying to survive in a Professional dog-eat-dog world.  No wrong, no right - just necessary National interest.

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Post by marty2086 Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:09 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:In general too the Irish have brought the bigger foreign names into the league maybe with the exception of Lomu and Collins to the Blues and Ospreuys

What about Percy Montgommery at Dragons, and Bobby Skinstad, also Justin Marshall at Ospreys, I think you are doing a little disservice there saying that.

I forgot about Montgomery and Marshall but did Skinstad not basically play a handful of games as part of his retirement?

The point I forgot to include though was that these imports in Ireland were not just to strengthen positions but to supplement the loss of players to Ireland by providing a solid and consistent foundation for the teams

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:09 pm

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:True, but are you telling me that a casual Ulster or Glasgow fan would have a clue who Habberfield or Grabham were, or Steff Evans and Dan Jones for the Scarlets? These boys, despite them still being developing players, were fielded by the regions as they were the best available to them at the time. So maybe it is not fair to get too uptight when the Irish do it too.

Yes, but for every Habberfield Ospreys field, they also put out an AWJ and a Dan Biggar and a Justin Tuperic, and a Dan Lydyaite. From the outset, the Irish provinces were fielding teams of players nobody had heard of whilst keeping their international stars back for Europe. If that was not the case, and we were seeing match-ups BOD v Gavin Henson in the early days we could have had sponsors falling over themselves to stick their name on our league.

Going to just leave this here

http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/30.php?section=lineups&fixid=243#jzBvVQdWVDHusrtm.97

One game does not disprove anything. Every other team outside of Ireland played their best players in every game when available, the provinces did not. I am not going over this again and again. Why can't you just even think about the damage that was done by doing this ? Just as I and other Welsh members on here wonder how much better things were if it were not for our in-fighting.

Is there a smashing your head against a brick wall emoticon anywhere ?

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Post by SecretFly Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:14 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The Irish selection policy hasn't changed and it was only last season MOC was having his moan about it

It has changed. I have been watching the Celtic league since day one. I can tell you now 100% at the start you were not playing any first teamers in Wales. There would be a team of unrecognisable players turning up. I do remember one year though, BOD had been out injured for ages and he was named in the Leinster squad to play Dragons, for that one reason I went to RP to watch the game and he came on for a 10 min cameo at the end of the game. Now it seams the provinces are actually using their 10 or 12 game limit in the league and instead of just keeping the players for home games, they use their better players for the harder away games as well, thus using them less at home. Which in itself is an improvement.

Our 'Better' players now are more part of a greater collective.  I wouldn't think it's that the stars play more its simply that there are more of them or less of them (depending on how you react to marketing)  Every player gets talked about more and has more attention placed on them.  Madigan is still a fringe Ireland International.... but has still enough of a reputation through all media rugby outlets to be known well in Wales and Scotland and even now in England or France.  So the idea of Star Player is less selective now....there are more of them in every Pro12 team.  That's modern marketing from within and interest gained from within the Pro12 format itself for players that are Pro12 players more than International.
I guess I'm saying the respect for Pro12 players in their own right is growing.  They don't need to be International stars anymore to draw interest.

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Post by marty2086 Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:17 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The Irish selection policy hasn't changed and it was only last season MOC was having his moan about it

It has changed. I have been watching the Celtic league since day one. I can tell you now 100% at the start you were not playing any first teamers in Wales. There would be a team of unrecognisable players turning up. I do remember one year though, BOD had been out injured for ages and he was named in the Leinster squad to play Dragons, for that one reason I went to RP to watch the game and he came on for a 10 min cameo at the end of the game. Now it seams the provinces are actually using their 10 or 12 game limit in the league and instead of just keeping the players for home games, they use their better players for the harder away games as well, thus using them less at home. Which in itself is an improvement.

How many Top14 teams do the same though? it helps though that instead of Halfpenny a team like Toulon can play James O'Connor or Delon Armitage

Modern rugby requires the depth and the BOD example is an easy one to highlight as he was pretty much wrapped in cotton wool by the IRFU and Leinster

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Post by SecretFly Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:18 pm

LordDowlais wrote: Every other team outside of Ireland played their best players in every game when available, the provinces did not

A big defining declaration Lord. But just not true. It would take you a long time to prove it was true but you know the size of the job to do so, so you try dropping it in there and hopefully people just accept it.

It ain't true. No, not every other team outside Ireland played their best players in every game when available.

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:19 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:You see the Pro12 as failing, and not everyone agrees with you

This is another instance where things are taken out of content. I do not see the league as failing, I see the league as an improvement on previous years, because of past failures, which were down to ALL our respective unions.

The one fact, and is still a part of the issue for me, is that since the leagues inception, a part of the reason for the failings is that the IRFU have seen our league as a development tool. Yes I know things are changing, but you cannot deny that the provinces were fielding players that nobody outside of Ireland had/have ever heard of.

Now that is not the ONLY reason, but it is one of the reasons, just like our in-fighting is one of the reasons, none of us are squeaky clean in all this, I just wish that some of our members would accept that.

The league was set up in order for the lesser nations to have a means of developing players, competing against the best in Europe, and giving the Unions their national sides a greater chance of competing against the best at international level. That's not a failing. That's a worthy purpose, and one that has been fairly successful. Now, it comes across as though you are saying this purpose is unique to Ireland. Simply not true. That will have been the aim of all nations involved. Not that the league should be viewed as simply a development tool. It's a league in its own right, and one which offers a great level of entertainment with the best of each nation competing against one another, and against those of the other two big leagues in Europe.

The Provinces have always had more internationals playing in their sides than you would normally see in AP/T14 teams. We still need those players that most won't have heard of. Otherwise we will shrivel and die. We all need new blood coming through the ranks, including the Regions.

Pretty fair assessment of the league there.  And truth be told when you look at some of these 'nobody knows' players, they do have the potential to be household names in a year or two.

Exactly. From someone nobody knows to someone who everyone knows can happen fairly quickly. The exciting thing for me is seeing young guys coming in, and showing that potential. Many won't rise above being a good squad players, but then there's the gems who have it in them to be international class, and the very rare gems that have it in them to be world class. These guys can be just as exciting to watch as the big names.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:22 pm

SecretFly wrote:I guess I'm saying the respect for Pro12 players in their own right is growing. They don't need to be International stars anymore to draw interest.

Yes, again you are not wrong in saying that, but I am saying that from the outset the league's image was damaged because of a number of issues, one of them issues was the provinces not playing their best players from the start. Why would you not agree with this ?

Calm blue oceans, Calm blue oceans, just keep thinking of clam blue oceans.

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Post by marty2086 Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:23 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:True, but are you telling me that a casual Ulster or Glasgow fan would have a clue who Habberfield or Grabham were, or Steff Evans and Dan Jones for the Scarlets? These boys, despite them still being developing players, were fielded by the regions as they were the best available to them at the time. So maybe it is not fair to get too uptight when the Irish do it too.

Yes, but for every Habberfield Ospreys field, they also put out an AWJ and a Dan Biggar and a Justin Tuperic, and a Dan Lydyaite. From the outset, the Irish provinces were fielding teams of players nobody had heard of whilst keeping their international stars back for Europe. If that was not the case, and we were seeing match-ups BOD v Gavin Henson in the early days we could have had sponsors falling over themselves to stick their name on our league.

Going to just leave this here

http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/30.php?section=lineups&fixid=243#jzBvVQdWVDHusrtm.97

One game does not disprove anything. Every other team outside of Ireland played their best players in every game when available, the provinces did not. I am not going over this again and again. Why can't you just even think about the damage that was done by doing this ? Just as I and other Welsh members on here wonder how much better things were if it were not for our in-fighting.

Is there a smashing your head against a brick wall emoticon anywhere ?

I was merely highlighting that these things did happen and yet sponsors weren't falling over themselves

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:23 pm

SecretFly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote: Every other team outside of Ireland played their best players in every game when available, the provinces did not

A big defining declaration Lord.  But just not true.  It would take you a long time to prove it was true but you know the size of the job to do so, so you try dropping it in there and hopefully people just accept it.  

It ain't true.  No, not every other team outside Ireland played their best players in every game when available.

It is true, because I have been to watch loads of games and I always sat there watching Welsh internationals when they were playing the provinces.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:26 pm

Munchkin wrote:Exactly. From someone nobody knows to someone who everyone knows can happen fairly quickly. The exciting thing for me is seeing young guys coming in, and showing that potential. Many won't rise above being a good squad players, but then there's the gems who have it in them to be international class, and the very rare gems that have it in them to be world class. These guys can be just as exciting to watch as the big names.


AAaaaaargggghh. Again, you are just saying something that is true, but has everything to do with the fact that the Provinces NEVER played their best players as much as they could in the league.

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:27 pm

LordDowlais wrote:See Munchkin, I try and point an issue, and you just completely bury your head in the sand with it and defend the actions of the IRFU. The league was set up because OUR leagues were not sustainable, we could not afford to all have 10 pro teams each in our own leagues, so we set up the Celtic league for the benefit of Wales, Scotland and Ireland. Wales and Scotland have ALWAYS played their best players when available, Ireland have not. This has caused our league to be less desirable to potential sponsors and made our league less marketable. This to me is a fact of a matter.

I am not saying that our league has been less marketable in the past just because of that, I am saying that whilst the IRFU were doing that, it added to the other issues the league was/is having.

I didn't bury my head in the sand. I quite clearly responded to your claim, and not only that........you have just agreed with me!!!!

The bit in bold is waffle. Honestly, that's just all it is. It's a myth that got a bit of media attention, and guys like you sucked it up.... because you wanted to.


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Post by LordDowlais Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:29 pm

marty2086 wrote:I was merely highlighting that these things did happen and yet sponsors weren't falling over themselves

Oh FFS. OK you lot win. I'm out. No wonder there is all out carnage on here. Total refusal to shoulder any responsability. Good afternoon to you all.

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Post by SecretFly Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:32 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote: Every other team outside of Ireland played their best players in every game when available, the provinces did not

A big defining declaration Lord.  But just not true.  It would take you a long time to prove it was true but you know the size of the job to do so, so you try dropping it in there and hopefully people just accept it.  

It ain't true.  No, not every other team outside Ireland played their best players in every game when available.

It is true, because I have been to watch loads of games and I always sat there watching Welsh internationals when they were playing the provinces.

Well I sat there too and saw other things. One of the things was Welsh Internationals (when they did often show) playing like the rookies they were keeping off the team. Showing up ain't playing. Rarely have I seen Welsh Internationals put in International level performances at Regional Level. Gotta save yourself for Gat's Boot camps Wink

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:32 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Exactly. From someone nobody knows to someone who everyone knows can happen fairly quickly. The exciting thing for me is seeing young guys coming in, and showing that potential. Many won't rise above being a good squad players, but then there's the gems who have it in them to be international class, and the very rare gems that have it in them to be world class. These guys can be just as exciting to watch as the big names.


AAaaaaargggghh. Again, you are just saying something that is true, but has everything to do with the fact that the Provinces NEVER played their best players as much as they could in the league.

If it's true, then it's true for a good reason. Unearthing potential.

The claim that the 'Provinces NEVER played their best players as much as they could', is obviously false. You say it and you believe it, but that doesn't make it true. Imagine thinking a Province wouldn't want to get the most from their players......

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:35 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:I was merely highlighting that these things did happen and yet sponsors weren't falling over themselves

Oh FFS. OK you lot win. I'm out. No wonder there is all out carnage on here. Total refusal to shoulder any responsability. Good afternoon to you all.

Now, LD. Don't pretend to flounce off. We all know that it's coming up to your quitting time, as it is most days. See you tomorrow Very Happy

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:39 pm

Munchkin wrote:The claim that the 'Provinces NEVER played their best players as much as they could', is obviously false.

FFS. picard

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Post by marty2086 Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:43 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:I was merely highlighting that these things did happen and yet sponsors weren't falling over themselves

Oh FFS. OK you lot win. I'm out. No wonder there is all out carnage on here. Total refusal to shoulder any responsability. Good afternoon to you all.

You were the one wanted to see Henson v BOD, by the way the most league games Henson ever played in the league was 11 I take it that was as many he could play in that season?

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Post by marty2086 Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:44 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The claim that the 'Provinces NEVER played their best players as much as they could', is obviously false.

FFS. picard

Munchkin are you serious?

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:49 pm

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The claim that the 'Provinces NEVER played their best players as much as they could', is obviously false.

FFS. picard

Munchkin are you serious?

Yes, why wouldn't I be?

Edit: just to clarify; 'as much as they could', meaning as much as they could outside of international duty and IRFU imposed resting periods. I don't count players who have been flogged getting a break from play in that. That's player welfare as it should be.


Last edited by Munchkin on Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by marty2086 Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:55 pm

Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The claim that the 'Provinces NEVER played their best players as much as they could', is obviously false.

FFS. picard

Munchkin are you serious?

Yes, why wouldn't I be?

Players have been regularly rested by the provinces but then again if they tried playing them every game how many would have lasted the season?

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Post by SecretFly Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:56 pm

Lord, is right! You can't reason with people in here!!!

It's a madhouse!

Good Day, Gentlemen! mad Good Day, Indeed! furious

See the lot of you in Court!

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 4:59 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The claim that the 'Provinces NEVER played their best players as much as they could', is obviously false.

FFS. picard

Munchkin are you serious?

Yes, why wouldn't I be?

Players have been regularly rested by the provinces but then again if they tried playing them every game how many would have lasted the season?

Just added to my last post. Playing players to the extent that you might break them isn't playing players as much as you could, because 'as much as you could' has to take player welfare into consideration. Counter productive to do otherwise.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 09 Sep 2015, 5:03 pm

OK, let me sign off, with one last, hopeful, olive branch. I have had time to calm down.

Right. I am not asking my fellow Irish members on here to justify the resting/not using of international players. I know exactly why it was done and there is good reason and a decent argument for why it was done. I completely understand the situation of it all.

Now, what I want from the Irish is an acknowledgement, you do not even have to agree, but an acknowledgement, that by the IRFU doing this, it was detrimental to the league and caused it to be less marketable.

Can you please just see it from mine, and many others point of view ?

Thank you and good night.

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 5:06 pm

SecretFly wrote:Lord, is right!  You can't reason with people in here!!!

It's a madhouse!

Good Day, Gentlemen! mad Good Day, Indeed!  furious

See the lot of you in Court!  

Sure there's no reason to reason when you can just say stuff. The practical approach to taking the work out of debate, and conserving that energy into deciding what's for dinner. Makes sense king

I'm going to time my flounce to just before I go to bed idea

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 5:07 pm

LordDowlais wrote:OK, let me sign off, with one last, hopeful, olive branch. I have had time to calm down.

Right. I am not asking my fellow Irish members on here to justify the resting/not using of international players. I know exactly why it was done and there is good reason and a decent argument for why it was done. I completely understand the situation of it all.

Now, what I want from the Irish is an acknowledgement, you do not even have to agree, but an acknowledgement, that by the IRFU doing this, it was detrimental to the league and caused it to be less marketable.

Can you please just see it from mine, and many others point of view ?

Thank you and good night.

No Very Happy

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Post by The Great Aukster Wed 09 Sep 2015, 6:34 pm

I can acknowledge that the IRFU have a player management programme in place that is primarily there for their main concern - Test Rugby. This is easy to acknowledge because it is a fact.

What I haven't seen any proof of is that if a team isn't at 100% full strength that it affects sponsors or indeed crowd interest. There has been zero proof presented that BOD not playing in Wales for example shaved £1 off any sponsorship deal.

Aren't some of the teams in Super Rugby struggling for the sponsorship and attracting gates they think they deserve? Is that because they rest players and don't take it seriously?

Given that there is a World Cup coming up and all the teams are forced to withdraw players, have the attendances been markedly different across the board to when all the stars were available last season?

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Post by PhilBB Mon 14 Sep 2015, 9:57 am

So, which of the IRFU employed Touch Judges gave the decision that swung the game hugely in Leinster's favour on Saturday?
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:01 am

PhilBB wrote:So, which of the IRFU employed Touch Judges gave the decision that swung the game hugely in Leinster's favour on Saturday?

Or which employee gave 12 pens a piece in a game, giving one side 3 yellows and the other none. Or even who was the employee who presided over another last minute escape from lost for Munster???
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Post by LordDowlais Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:07 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
PhilBB wrote:So, which of the IRFU employed Touch Judges gave the decision that swung the game hugely in Leinster's favour on Saturday?

Or which employee gave 12 pens a piece in a game, giving one side 3 yellows and the other none.  Or even who was the employee who presided over another last minute escape from lost for Munster???

I was at that game yesterday and the ref was a joke. Here is what I have posted on the match thread this morning:-

I am a little reluctant to post on here after yesterdays game. I know I will get accused of conspiracy theories and the what not, but the ref was totally one sided yesterday, every time Ospreys were in the Munster 22, the Munster players were doing something cynical. Players lying injured but straight away getting up when the play was stopped, slowing the ball down, and the ref was only penalising one team in the scrum. Ospreys had six shots at goal for Munsters foul play, yet they somehow escaped any yellows OR warnings, I was in my seat, and I watched a Munster player pick up the ball behind the ruck, he then jumped NFL style over the ruck with the ball. Is that now allowed ?

I am not saying the ref was biased, but he was rubbish and he favoured Munster. But saying that, he did not cause Ospreys to lose line outs on their own throw. But what he did do, was effect the final outcome of the game, and this is what is making a mockery out of our league. CRAP REFS.

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Post by PhilBB Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:14 am

The Great Aukster wrote:I can acknowledge that the IRFU have a player management programme in place that is primarily there for their main concern - Test Rugby. This is easy to acknowledge because it is a fact.

What I haven't seen any proof of is that if a team isn't at 100% full strength that it affects sponsors or indeed crowd interest. There has been zero proof presented that BOD not playing in Wales for example shaved £1 off any sponsorship deal.

Aren't some of the teams in Super Rugby struggling for the sponsorship and attracting gates they think they deserve? Is that because they rest players and don't take it seriously?

Given that there is a World Cup coming up and all the teams are forced to withdraw players, have the attendances been markedly different across the board to when all the stars were available last season?

The bit in bold is hilarious. Are you seriously going to claim that the famed non-appearance of big names doesn't affect corporate income (I note that you've fluffed the bit about 'crowd interest')?
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Post by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:22 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
PhilBB wrote:So, which of the IRFU employed Touch Judges gave the decision that swung the game hugely in Leinster's favour on Saturday?

Or which employee gave 12 pens a piece in a game, giving one side 3 yellows and the other none.  Or even who was the employee who presided over another last minute escape from lost for Munster???

SS are you being serious? Two of Scarlets yellows came for repeated offensives within 5 metres of the Scarlets line and Barclay was lucky not to get a second yellow before Earle went to the bin. Edwards saw yellow for a no arm tackle so you can hardly compare offences and try intimating the ref was biased

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:24 am

The thing is, if we had refs who were just employed by the league, we would only be talking about crap refs. But because the Irish refs are employed by the same outfit that employs the provinces, we get potential bias, and we talk about it. But sadly our Irish members on here cannot see this.

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Post by PhilBB Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:24 am

marty2086 wrote:Edwards saw yellow for a no arm tackle so you can hardly compare offences and try intimating the ref was biased

https://vine.co/v/eFjIW0v0EA5

That is now, supposedly, a yellow card offence.
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Post by SecretFly Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:25 am

The Welsh have always drooled over BOD, it is true.  The adored him and cried rivers of tears when yonder bad man Gats dropped him like the plank he was for that infamous Lions game.

The Welsh wailed for a month, I here, in mourning for the humiliation dropped on their favourite Honourary Welshman BOD.

It's true, the Welsh Regional supporters stayed away in their droves through the Noughties because of grief that BOD didn't show up live in the flesh for them to throw offerings to.

Bad show IRFU.

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Post by PhilBB Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:25 am

https://vine.co/v/eFDj5WqUHev

This isn't a yellow card offence.
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Post by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:28 am

LordDowlais wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
PhilBB wrote:So, which of the IRFU employed Touch Judges gave the decision that swung the game hugely in Leinster's favour on Saturday?

Or which employee gave 12 pens a piece in a game, giving one side 3 yellows and the other none.  Or even who was the employee who presided over another last minute escape from lost for Munster???

I was at that game yesterday and the ref was a joke. Here is what I have posted on the match thread this morning:-

I am a little reluctant to post on here after yesterdays game. I know I will get accused of conspiracy theories and the what not, but the ref was totally one sided yesterday, every time Ospreys were in the Munster 22, the Munster players were doing something cynical. Players lying injured but straight away getting up when the play was stopped, slowing the ball down, and the ref was only penalising one team in the scrum. Ospreys had six shots at goal for Munsters foul play, yet they somehow escaped any yellows OR warnings, I was in my seat, and I watched a Munster player pick up the ball behind the ruck, he then jumped NFL style over the ruck with the ball. Is that now allowed ?

I am not saying the ref was biased, but he was rubbish and he favoured Munster. But saying that, he did not cause Ospreys to lose line outs on their own throw. But what he did do, was effect the final outcome of the game, and this is what is making a mockery out of our league. CRAP REFS.

LD maybe you'd like to watch the Ulster Ospreys game from last week when the ref kept penalising Ulster and Herbst at the scrum when it looked like on at least two occasions the Ospreys LH was pulling the scrum down. Refs make judgements at all levels and allow them to continue through a game because they don't know whats going on at the scrum

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:29 am

marty2086 wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
PhilBB wrote:So, which of the IRFU employed Touch Judges gave the decision that swung the game hugely in Leinster's favour on Saturday?

Or which employee gave 12 pens a piece in a game, giving one side 3 yellows and the other none.  Or even who was the employee who presided over another last minute escape from lost for Munster???

SS are you being serious? Two of Scarlets yellows came for repeated offensives within 5 metres of the Scarlets line and Barclay was lucky not to get a second yellow before Earle went to the bin. Edwards saw yellow for a no arm tackle so you can hardly compare offences and try intimating the ref was biased

I am just saying that there were 12 pens a piece and there were three cards for one side and none for the other. You have to admit, unless there are violent offences, that 12 pens a piece and 3 cards to 0 is a pretty unusual stat.
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:30 am

PhilBB wrote:https://vine.co/v/eFDj5WqUHev

This isn't a yellow card offence.

I think this is going to be the new 'tip tackle' where we all spend hours on end arguing why player A was punished for this offence, when in a different match player B did not even give a pen for their tackle which was worse.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:32 am

marty2086 wrote:
LD maybe you'd like to watch the Ulster Ospreys game from last week when the ref kept penalising Ulster and Herbst at the scrum when it looked like on at least two occasions the Ospreys LH was pulling the scrum down. Refs make judgements at all levels and allow them to continue through a game because they don't know whats going on at the scrum

Looked like to whom?

Do you have a time for these scrums as we may be able to get gifs? Thanks.
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Post by LordDowlais Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:35 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
PhilBB wrote:So, which of the IRFU employed Touch Judges gave the decision that swung the game hugely in Leinster's favour on Saturday?

Or which employee gave 12 pens a piece in a game, giving one side 3 yellows and the other none.  Or even who was the employee who presided over another last minute escape from lost for Munster???

I was at that game yesterday and the ref was a joke. Here is what I have posted on the match thread this morning:-

I am a little reluctant to post on here after yesterdays game. I know I will get accused of conspiracy theories and the what not, but the ref was totally one sided yesterday, every time Ospreys were in the Munster 22, the Munster players were doing something cynical. Players lying injured but straight away getting up when the play was stopped, slowing the ball down, and the ref was only penalising one team in the scrum. Ospreys had six shots at goal for Munsters foul play, yet they somehow escaped any yellows OR warnings, I was in my seat, and I watched a Munster player pick up the ball behind the ruck, he then jumped NFL style over the ruck with the ball. Is that now allowed ?

I am not saying the ref was biased, but he was rubbish and he favoured Munster. But saying that, he did not cause Ospreys to lose line outs on their own throw. But what he did do, was effect the final outcome of the game, and this is what is making a mockery out of our league. CRAP REFS.

LD maybe you'd like to watch the Ulster Ospreys game from last week when the ref kept penalising Ulster and Herbst at the scrum when it looked like on at least two occasions the Ospreys LH was pulling the scrum down. Refs make judgements at all levels and allow them to continue through a game because they don't know whats going on at the scrum

I accept that marty but I would at least like it to go both ways. But what I will not accept is obvious cynical play going unpunished. During the build up to Munsters winning try, the ref allowed Munster to hold on for as long as they wanted at the breakdown, Ospreys players were looking at the ref in bewilderment. Also Ospreys had 6 kicks at goal yesterday, mostly for cynical play at the breakdown, but not once did he warn the Munster players. He was also allowing Munster to wheel the scrum at will. There is so much I could go on about, but I do not want to start ranting. There were people around me leaving early and shaking their heads in disgust because of the refereeing on the pitch. Trust me, it is driving people away.

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Post by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:37 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
PhilBB wrote:So, which of the IRFU employed Touch Judges gave the decision that swung the game hugely in Leinster's favour on Saturday?

Or which employee gave 12 pens a piece in a game, giving one side 3 yellows and the other none.  Or even who was the employee who presided over another last minute escape from lost for Munster???

SS are you being serious? Two of Scarlets yellows came for repeated offensives within 5 metres of the Scarlets line and Barclay was lucky not to get a second yellow before Earle went to the bin. Edwards saw yellow for a no arm tackle so you can hardly compare offences and try intimating the ref was biased

I am just saying that there were 12 pens a piece and there were three cards for one side and none for the other.  You have to admit, unless there are violent offences, that 12 pens a piece and 3 cards to 0 is a pretty unusual stat.

If you didn't watch the game it is but Im sure you did and clearly saw that Scarlets were deserving of theirs and the 3rd was through stupidity as much as anything, I could highlight a couple of decisions that went Scarlets way that maybe shouldn't have but ultimately the best team on the day won

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:41 am

marty2086 wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
PhilBB wrote:So, which of the IRFU employed Touch Judges gave the decision that swung the game hugely in Leinster's favour on Saturday?

Or which employee gave 12 pens a piece in a game, giving one side 3 yellows and the other none.  Or even who was the employee who presided over another last minute escape from lost for Munster???

SS are you being serious? Two of Scarlets yellows came for repeated offensives within 5 metres of the Scarlets line and Barclay was lucky not to get a second yellow before Earle went to the bin. Edwards saw yellow for a no arm tackle so you can hardly compare offences and try intimating the ref was biased

I am just saying that there were 12 pens a piece and there were three cards for one side and none for the other.  You have to admit, unless there are violent offences, that 12 pens a piece and 3 cards to 0 is a pretty unusual stat.

If you didn't watch the game it is but Im sure you did and clearly saw that Scarlets were deserving of theirs and the 3rd was through stupidity as much as anything, I could highlight a couple of decisions that went Scarlets way that maybe shouldn't have but ultimately the best team on the day won

I did see the game, and thought that at least one card was deserved the other way too (Nick Williams for his late no arm smash on Parkes that was called as a lineout??), and being truthful even the Ulster fan next to us was surprised that there were no cards for Ulster.

Officials do get calls wrong, and fans see things slightly skewed, however I am sticking to 12-12 pens, and 3:0 cards, is not a typical outcome.
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Post by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:41 am

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LD maybe you'd like to watch the Ulster Ospreys game from last week when the ref kept penalising Ulster and Herbst at the scrum when it looked like on at least two occasions the Ospreys LH was pulling the scrum down. Refs make judgements at all levels and allow them to continue through a game because they don't know whats going on at the scrum

Looked like to whom?

Do you have a time for these scrums as we may be able to get gifs? Thanks.

I keep a load handy just in case you ask

Feel free to scroll through to the scrums and judge for yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOQa-476nHw

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Post by Chunky Norwich Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:46 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtveDV70IKM#t=1h23m19s

PrO'12 Lottery

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Post by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:48 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
PhilBB wrote:So, which of the IRFU employed Touch Judges gave the decision that swung the game hugely in Leinster's favour on Saturday?

Or which employee gave 12 pens a piece in a game, giving one side 3 yellows and the other none.  Or even who was the employee who presided over another last minute escape from lost for Munster???

SS are you being serious? Two of Scarlets yellows came for repeated offensives within 5 metres of the Scarlets line and Barclay was lucky not to get a second yellow before Earle went to the bin. Edwards saw yellow for a no arm tackle so you can hardly compare offences and try intimating the ref was biased

I am just saying that there were 12 pens a piece and there were three cards for one side and none for the other.  You have to admit, unless there are violent offences, that 12 pens a piece and 3 cards to 0 is a pretty unusual stat.

If you didn't watch the game it is but Im sure you did and clearly saw that Scarlets were deserving of theirs and the 3rd was through stupidity as much as anything, I could highlight a couple of decisions that went Scarlets way that maybe shouldn't have but ultimately the best team on the day won

I did see the game, and thought that at least one card was deserved the other way too (Nick Williams for his late no arm smash on Parkes that was called as a lineout??), and being truthful even the Ulster fan next to us was surprised that there were no cards for Ulster.

Officials do get calls wrong, and fans see things slightly skewed, however I am sticking to 12-12 pens, and 3:0 cards, is not a typical outcome.

SS, I didn't see the Williams one but Ill take your word on that as Williams is a liability, there was also one missed from Shingler on Gilroy as he broke up the wing

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Mon 14 Sep 2015, 11:14 am

marty2086 wrote:SS, I didn't see the Williams one but Ill take your word on that as Williams is a liability, there was also one missed from Shingler on Gilroy as he broke up the wing

I'm going to re-watch it tonight as it is on s4c (22:00) and maybe I will see things that I missed form the stands both ways. And who knows I may decide that 12:12 on pens and 3:0 on cards was a fair call (but don't count on it).
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Post by Guest Mon 14 Sep 2015, 11:17 am

PhilBB wrote:https://vine.co/v/eFDj5WqUHev

This isn't a yellow card offence.

In the Scarlets game it was, and the reason it was is because of repeated infringements. The ref had very clearly warned against committing the same offence. Play the ref.

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Post by marty2086 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 11:25 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:SS, I didn't see the Williams one but Ill take your word on that as Williams is a liability, there was also one missed from Shingler on Gilroy as he broke up the wing

I'm going to re-watch it tonight as it is on s4c (22:00) and maybe I will see things that I missed form the stands both ways.  And who knows I may decide that 12:12 on pens and 3:0 on cards was a fair call (but don't count on it).

I think where the penalties were conceded determined the refs actions, most of Ulsters were between half way and their own 22 compared to Scarlets in the red zone. The ref had already warned and carded Scarlets before giving them another warning leading to the 3rd card

The full game is already on youtube, which by the way is something the league need to crack down on in regards to tv revenue etc

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Post by Guest Mon 14 Sep 2015, 11:29 am

The Williams no arms smash that had the Scarlets fans screeching 'cheat cheat cheat'? It was slightly late, by a nano second, but it wasn't a no arms smash, and it didn't deserve any penalty.

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