PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

First topic message reminder :

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Or maybe, just maybe everyone decided to pitch their hat into the ring and see what happened

Are all teams eligible?

Well considering they were all asked to tender for it that would mean they were

Marty, because the criteria has never been made public, none of us will never know.

Sure if we had facts then we wouldn't have these conspiracy theories. Where would be the fun in that?

Yeah and you had nothing that would suggest there would be more. Given the deal the English have with BT now they would be mad to mess with it.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah and you had nothing that would suggest there would be more. Given the deal the English have with BT now they would be mad to mess with it.

Except, of course, it's BT driving a move to a potential new setup. You seem to have forgotten that bit.

What makes you think that?

No 7&1/2 wrote:What makes you think that?

Which bit? That you've forgotten it or that it's BT Sport driving it?

Clearly your last post shows that you've forgotten it.

What makes you think that BT are trying to influence the creation of a B&I (and Italian) league?

No 7&1/2 wrote:What makes you think that BT are trying to influence the creation of a B&I (and Italian) league?

Contacts at BT Sport.

How much are they offering to pay?

Keep up the good fight 7&1/2

Us Irish are taking our tea break.

No 7&1/2 wrote:How much are they offering to pay?

I've no idea. But they certainly wouldn't be leaving the English clubs financially worse off.

But nothing to back this up at all. Just a contact who says that BT Sports are now arranging domestic structures rather than the PRL or any of the unions? Including the Italians, no other countries though. Fascinating.

No 7&1/2 wrote:But nothing to back this up at all. Just a contact who says that BT Sports are now arranging domestic structures rather than the PRL or any of the unions? Including the Italians, no other countries though. Fascinating.

There's nothing in the public domain.

You've clearly forgotten the influence of BT Sport in arranging the new European Competition, if that is an attempt at sarcasm (that backfired) rather than a genuine statement of ignorance.

The Italians? They are not involved.

The Italians aren't involved? I thought this was about expanding the game? Is it now just back to money?

I have a feeling that there is nothing in the public domain because this is all made up or someone is pulling your leg.

No 7&1/2 wrote:The Italians aren't involved? I thought this was about expanding the game? Is it now just back to money?

I have a feeling that there is nothing in the public domain because this is all made up or someone is pulling your leg.

Odd that you'd think a B&I League would involve a nation outside of Britain and Ireland.

You keep that feeling, Champ. That's fine with me.

Well you said they were trying to expand the game so I assumed the italians would be there as they are in the Pro 12. Why are BT excluding the Italians then?

Aren't there laws about a fair bidding process for TV rights in sport? You're saying that BT will have it sewn up, so you're saying they're breaking the law?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well you said they were trying to expand the game so I assumed the italians would be there as they are in the Pro 12. Why are BT excluding the Italians then?

Aren't there laws about a fair bidding process for TV rights in sport? You're saying that BT will have it sewn up, so you're saying they're breaking the law?

Fair play, that's the best 'configure a straw man argument to try to dismiss the point' post I've seen in a while.

Please do return when you want to discuss the issue properly. Or, of course, we can both be content in the level of knowledge we have on the subject.

So you can't answer or don't want to? Pretty fair questions I thought, why don't you want to answer?

No 7&1/2 wrote:So you can't answer or don't want to? Pretty fair questions I thought, why don't you want to answer?

Oh, fair enough. I had discounted them as not your honest opinion as they were so bonkers.

If you cannot understand why BT Sport would exclude the Italians in a British & Irish league then you're asking the wrong man to explain it to you, sorry. I'd fail to make any kind of explanation that wouldn't upset Rory.

What laws about bidding for sport cover three jurisdictions, Champ?

Why do you think the italians are being excluded from a possible future combined somestic league? Don't get hung up on the name, why exclude them?

Why Champ? I just thought there were laws about bidding processes here? I may be wrong; am I?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why do you think the italians are being excluded from a possible future combined somestic league? Don't get hung up on the name, why exclude them?

Why Champ? I just thought there were laws about bidding processes here? I may be wrong; am I?

Why exclude them? Because they aren't in Britain or Ireland.

I'm unaware of a bidding process for a competition that doesn't yet exist. Can you let me know how the rights for the PrO'12 in Ireland were put out to tender?

Thanks.

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:What makes you think that BT are trying to influence the creation of a B&I (and Italian) league?

Contacts at BT Sport.

So what are they looking to create?
Is it just Jeff and Pro12?
Why would they exclude the Italians?
If they could split up the Pro12 and pick who they wanted, would they need 4 Irish (do they want to drop Connacht) or 4 Regions (maybe Osprey and Cardiff would be enough?) or 2 Scot (maybe keep Glasgow as they're good these days)?


How would it work with the English Championship? Would they promotion/relegation? Or is it a closed up shop?

Are BT Sport making money in their current contract? It was said in this thread that the PRL would be mad to mess with it, that would make one assume that they got more money that they might if they went back to the table to negotiate today. Are the talks of B&I leagues within BT Sport a sign that they are trying to make their recent contract with PRL/Jeff profitable again by expanding the market/offering/etc.?

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

So what are they looking to create?
Is it just Jeff and Pro12?  
Why would they exclude the Italians?
If they could split up the Pro12 and pick who they wanted, would they need 4 Irish (do they want to drop Connacht) or 4 Regions (maybe Osprey and Cardiff would be enough?) or 2 Scot (maybe keep Glasgow as they're good these days)?


How would it work with the English Championship? Would they promotion/relegation? Or is it a closed up shop?

Are BT Sport making money in their current contract?  It was said in this thread that the PRL would be mad to mess with it, that would make one assume that they got more money that they might if they went back to the table to negotiate today.  Are the talks of B&I leagues within BT Sport a sign that they are trying to make their recent contract with PRL/Jeff profitable again by expanding the market/offering/etc.?

Who is Jeff? Why would they include the Italians?

PRL want to move to a ring fenced solution once the LFA is over.

Are BT Sport making money? http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/30/bt-adds-more-fibre-broadband-customers-profits-rise

They'd exclude the Italians because the proposed B&I League is all about everyone circling the wagons to save Welsh Rugby, possibly from itself if all the internal conflict -still- is to be believed.

The Italians? Well like in the last European debate - screw them

SecretFly wrote:They'd exclude the Italians because the proposed B&I League is all about everyone circling the wagons to save Welsh Rugby, possibly from itself if all the internal conflict -still- is to be believed.  

The Italians?  Well like in the last European debate - screw them

You see now, for clarity, is that humour or your genuine take on things?

PhilBB wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

So what are they looking to create?
Is it just Jeff and Pro12?  
Why would they exclude the Italians?
If they could split up the Pro12 and pick who they wanted, would they need 4 Irish (do they want to drop Connacht) or 4 Regions (maybe Osprey and Cardiff would be enough?) or 2 Scot (maybe keep Glasgow as they're good these days)?


How would it work with the English Championship? Would they promotion/relegation? Or is it a closed up shop?

Are BT Sport making money in their current contract?  It was said in this thread that the PRL would be mad to mess with it, that would make one assume that they got more money that they might if they went back to the table to negotiate today.  Are the talks of B&I leagues within BT Sport a sign that they are trying to make their recent contract with PRL/Jeff profitable again by expanding the market/offering/etc.?

Who is Jeff? Why would they include the Italians?

PRL want to move to a ring fenced solution once the LFA is over.

Are BT Sport making money? http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/30/bt-adds-more-fibre-broadband-customers-profits-rise

Jeff = affectionate name for the Aviva Premiership

The Italians are included if we want to try and grow the game. Growing the game is the objective here isn't it?

I asked if BT Sport are making money in their current contract (that contract being the one for english premiership rugby being mentioned here). The link shows the significant business they are getting from Champions League soccer rights. From your contacts in BT Sport, do you know if they are making money from the English premiership rugby / PRL negotiated contract?

SecretFly wrote:They'd exclude the Italians because the proposed B&I League is all about everyone circling the wagons to save Welsh Rugby, possibly from itself if all the internal conflict -still- is to be believed.  

The Italians?  Well like in the last European debate - screw them

Aren't the Italians charged a surfeit to take part in the PrO'12?

If I were them I'd be moving heaven and earth to link up with the French leagues.

It's genuine Phil.

That 'comprehension' glitch in your system will prove difficult for people to have debates with you.

It's absolute 100% genuine.  Common attitude to Italians - screw them.

Stone Motif wrote:

SecretFly wrote:They'd exclude the Italians because the proposed B&I League is all about everyone circling the wagons to save Welsh Rugby, possibly from itself if all the internal conflict -still- is to be believed.  

The Italians?  Well like in the last European debate - screw them

Aren't the Italians charged a surfeit to take part in the PrO'12?

If I were them I'd be moving heaven and earth to link up with the French leagues.

You certainly hope they'd be happy to.  Kills the guilt - if a smidgen existed

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

Jeff = affectionate name for the Aviva Premiership

The Italians are included if we want to try and grow the game.  Growing the game is the objective here isn't it?

I asked if BT Sport are making money in their current contract (that contract being the one for english premiership rugby being mentioned here).  The link shows the significant business they are getting from Champions League soccer rights.  From your contacts in BT Sport, do you know if they are making money from the English premiership rugby / PRL negotiated contract?

If you want to grow the game then the Italians must play in the French set up.

Growing the game in B&I is the objective here, I'd assume.

I'm not privy to how BT break down their own internal g-estimates of what brings in the cash to know whether they see the rugby as a positive schedule filler for the bigger fish of soccer, or if it allows them to tailor their product to the kinds of Category of viewer than advertisers in rugby enjoy.

All I can see is that the venture in to TV has been profitable for them in their major aim of cornering the broadband market.

SecretFly wrote:It's genuine Phil.

That 'comprehension' glitch in your system will prove difficult for people to have debates with you.

It's absolute 100% genuine.  Common attitude to Italians - screw them.

So you genuinely believe "the proposed B&I League is all about everyone circling the wagons to save Welsh Rugby, possibly from itself if all the internal conflict -still- is to be believed". Yes?

SecretFly wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

SecretFly wrote:They'd exclude the Italians because the proposed B&I League is all about everyone circling the wagons to save Welsh Rugby, possibly from itself if all the internal conflict -still- is to be believed.  

The Italians?  Well like in the last European debate - screw them

Aren't the Italians charged a surfeit to take part in the PrO'12?

If I were them I'd be moving heaven and earth to link up with the French leagues.

You certainly hope they'd be happy to.  Kills the guilt - if a smidgen existed

So you'll be giving them back the money they were charged to play in the PrO'12 then?

Salt of de orth you Irish fair play

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why do you think the italians are being excluded from a possible future combined somestic league? Don't get hung up on the name, why exclude them?

Why Champ? I just thought there were laws about bidding processes here? I may be wrong; am I?

Why exclude them? Because they aren't in Britain or Ireland.

I'm unaware of a bidding process for a competition that doesn't yet exist. Can you let me know how the rights for the PrO'12 in Ireland were put out to tender?

Thanks.

You've previously said that the money has been discussed though. So now it hasn't?

Why have BT decided it should just be B&I then?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Wrong. Because, like a few others, he refuses to consider, and challenge, the failings of his own Region. He takes the cowards way out and blames anyone else for those failings.

P.s I did explain this.

Right. I guess that you've never read my blog. Or that you cannot remember our discussion on Roger Lewis. Or that you've not seen my twitter output.

I think that those are three fair assumptions, right?

You blamed the Regions for the Regions failings. You're right, I didn't see it. Got a link?

Plemty of criticism towards the regions here:

https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2013/04/

Is there? That's twice I've read the top article, and I can't see much in the way of criticism toward the Regions. Would you copy those bits here for me? I see criticism toward the media, and Lewis, but not so much against the Regions in any of the three articles I've read.

I'm going to read through the other links now. Will report back later

P.s I've also yet to read any criticism toward the Irish....

No 7&1/2 wrote:

You've previously said that the money has been discussed though. So now it hasn't?

Why have BT decided it should just be B&I then?

You seem to be conflating a broadcaster noting 'We'd be interested in offering £x for y' with 'a bidding process'.

Can you point me to that tendering for the PrO'12 contract for Irish tv? Thanks.

No I can't find it yourself if you're interested. So now BT aren't encouraging or organising the comp they're simply releasing information of what exactly they would bid? Is that smart? What if Sky hear it?

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It's genuine Phil.

That 'comprehension' glitch in your system will prove difficult for people to have debates with you.

It's absolute 100% genuine.  Common attitude to Italians - screw them.

So you genuinely believe "the proposed B&I League is all about everyone circling the wagons to save Welsh Rugby, possibly from itself if all the internal conflict -still- is to be believed". Yes?

From a lot of Welsh perspectives here??? Yes. It's a 'Save Us' plea. Let's be blunt here, I don't think Welsh Rugby needs saving, but a lot of Welsh posters here seem to have had doomsday scenarios on their tongues now for the last number of years. To a good few Welsh on here it's a longing for salvation.... back home playing the English boys. Peace for the World. That's the attitude.

How come you forgot the Italian bit there Phil? I believe that too but not your concern.

No 7&1/2 wrote:No I can't find it yourself if you're interested. So now BT aren't encouraging or organising the comp they're simply releasing information of what exactly they would bid? Is that smart? What if Sky hear it?

What if Sky hear it? BT Sport and Sky clearly have little issue working together.

Stone Motif wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

SecretFly wrote:They'd exclude the Italians because the proposed B&I League is all about everyone circling the wagons to save Welsh Rugby, possibly from itself if all the internal conflict -still- is to be believed.  

The Italians?  Well like in the last European debate - screw them

Aren't the Italians charged a surfeit to take part in the PrO'12?

If I were them I'd be moving heaven and earth to link up with the French leagues.

You certainly hope they'd be happy to.  Kills the guilt - if a smidgen existed

So you'll be giving them back the money they were charged to play in the PrO'12 then?

Salt of de orth you Irish fair play

I'm not sure if the last lot of money has been paid. It was paid to the pro12 and was set up as part of the criteria for them to join the league. Which Union made that payment a stipulation to cover the travel costs of their teams having to travel such distances to honour fixtures?

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:No I can't find it yourself if you're interested. So now BT aren't encouraging or organising the comp they're simply releasing information of what exactly they would bid? Is that smart? What if Sky hear it?

What if Sky hear it? BT Sport and Sky clearly have little issue working together.

So it's now going to be a joint project by BT and Sky?

Why have BT and Sky decided to omit the Italians?

SecretFly wrote:

From a lot of Welsh perspectives here???  Yes.  It's a 'Save Us' plea.  Let's be blunt here, I don't think Welsh Rugby needs saving, but a lot of Welsh posters here seem to have had doomsday scenarios on their tongues now for the last number of years.  To a good few Welsh on here it's a longing for salvation.... back home playing the English boys.  Peace for the World.  That's the attitude.

How come you forgot the Italian bit there Phil?  I believe that too but not your concern.

Ah, I see. You're conflating the motives of BT Sport with the views of Welsh rugby followers on a message board. Fair enough.

I read your explanation on the Italian bit, so didn't feel the need to repeat that question.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

I'm not sure if the last lot of money has been paid.  It was paid to the pro12 and was set up as part of the criteria for them to join the league.  Which Union made that payment a stipulation to cover the travel costs of their teams having to travel such distances to honour fixtures?

£1m was paid by FIRA, no?

SecretFly wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It's genuine Phil.

That 'comprehension' glitch in your system will prove difficult for people to have debates with you.

It's absolute 100% genuine.  Common attitude to Italians - screw them.

So you genuinely believe "the proposed B&I League is all about everyone circling the wagons to save Welsh Rugby, possibly from itself if all the internal conflict -still- is to be believed". Yes?

From a lot of Welsh perspectives here???  Yes.  It's a 'Save Us' plea.  Let's be blunt here, I don't think Welsh Rugby needs saving, but a lot of Welsh posters here seem to have had doomsday scenarios on their tongues now for the last number of years.  To a good few Welsh on here it's a longing for salvation.... back home playing the English boys.  Peace for the World.  That's the attitude.

How come you forgot the Italian bit there Phil?  I believe that too but not your concern.

What would be a lot of posters? And who are these posters? Or are you just generalising?

Stone Motif wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

SecretFly wrote:They'd exclude the Italians because the proposed B&I League is all about everyone circling the wagons to save Welsh Rugby, possibly from itself if all the internal conflict -still- is to be believed.  

The Italians?  Well like in the last European debate - screw them

Aren't the Italians charged a surfeit to take part in the PrO'12?

If I were them I'd be moving heaven and earth to link up with the French leagues.

You certainly hope they'd be happy to.  Kills the guilt - if a smidgen existed

So you'll be giving them back the money they were charged to play in the PrO'12 then?

Salt of de orth you Irish fair play

I take it you won't?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:No I can't find it yourself if you're interested. So now BT aren't encouraging or organising the comp they're simply releasing information of what exactly they would bid? Is that smart? What if Sky hear it?

What if Sky hear it? BT Sport and Sky clearly have little issue working together.

So it's now going to be a joint project by BT and Sky?

Why have BT and Sky decided to omit the Italians?

Mate, as above, if you're going to play silly logic leaps then you've got the wrong man on the other end of your line, sorry.

Let's hope that Sky do get wind of what's going on and outbid BT Sport. That way everybody wins.

As for the Italians, they should be in the French system.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It's genuine Phil.

That 'comprehension' glitch in your system will prove difficult for people to have debates with you.

It's absolute 100% genuine.  Common attitude to Italians - screw them.

So you genuinely believe "the proposed B&I League is all about everyone circling the wagons to save Welsh Rugby, possibly from itself if all the internal conflict -still- is to be believed". Yes?

From a lot of Welsh perspectives here???  Yes.  It's a 'Save Us' plea.  Let's be blunt here, I don't think Welsh Rugby needs saving, but a lot of Welsh posters here seem to have had doomsday scenarios on their tongues now for the last number of years.  To a good few Welsh on here it's a longing for salvation.... back home playing the English boys.  Peace for the World.  That's the attitude.

How come you forgot the Italian bit there Phil?  I believe that too but not your concern.

What would be a lot of posters?  And who are these posters?  Or are you just generalising?

A 'Lot' generally is a generalisation. The generalisation stands. A lot of Welsh Here obviously want a B&I League....

The Italian bit????

PhilBB wrote:

As for the Italians, they should be in the French system.

They should be where they want to be. Isn't that what this is all about, sides finally being where they want to be rather than where someone else says they should be?

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:No I can't find it yourself if you're interested. So now BT aren't encouraging or organising the comp they're simply releasing information of what exactly they would bid? Is that smart? What if Sky hear it?

What if Sky hear it? BT Sport and Sky clearly have little issue working together.

So it's now going to be a joint project by BT and Sky?

Why have BT and Sky decided to omit the Italians?

Mate, as above, if you're going to play silly logic leaps then you've got the wrong man on the other end of your line, sorry.

Let's hope that Sky do get wind of what's going on and outbid BT Sport. That way everybody wins.

As for the Italians, they should be in the French system.

Wouldn't it be more likely that Sky would get annoyed at BT arranging a domestic comp for the clubs and possibly playing with fire for some EU rules on competition?

I'm not asking what you think on the Italians. I'm asking why BT would exclude them? The French aren't going to take them and you said this was about expaning the game.

SecretFly wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:It's genuine Phil.

That 'comprehension' glitch in your system will prove difficult for people to have debates with you.

It's absolute 100% genuine.  Common attitude to Italians - screw them.

So you genuinely believe "the proposed B&I League is all about everyone circling the wagons to save Welsh Rugby, possibly from itself if all the internal conflict -still- is to be believed". Yes?

From a lot of Welsh perspectives here???  Yes.  It's a 'Save Us' plea.  Let's be blunt here, I don't think Welsh Rugby needs saving, but a lot of Welsh posters here seem to have had doomsday scenarios on their tongues now for the last number of years.  To a good few Welsh on here it's a longing for salvation.... back home playing the English boys.  Peace for the World.  That's the attitude.

How come you forgot the Italian bit there Phil?  I believe that too but not your concern.

What would be a lot of posters?  And who are these posters?  Or are you just generalising?

A 'Lot' generally is a generalisation.  The generalisation stands.  A lot of Welsh Here obviously want a B&I League....  

The Italian bit????

I challenge you to find more than a few, let alone a handful, and sure as hell not a lot. Although that doesn't suit the agenda of running the taffs down does it.

SecretFly wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

As for the Italians, they should be in the French system.

They should be where they want to be.  Isn't that what this is all about, sides finally being where they want to be rather than where someone else says they should be?

I'm not following, sorry. I thought that this was all about stuffing the Italians and saving Welsh rugby, with BT Sport's motives being purely along those lines.

I can't keep up with these straw men reasons you keep producing, sorry.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Wouldn't it be more likely that Sky would get annoyed at BT arranging a domestic comp for the clubs and possibly playing with fire for some EU rules on competition?

I'm not asking what you think on the Italians. I'm asking why BT would exclude them? The French aren't going to take them and you said this was about expaning the game.

I don't see how it would be more likely or how any EU rules on competition are being affected. Could you explain the reasoning behind that question as it seems awfully out of place to me.

It is about expanding the game. In Britain and Ireland. How many times do I have to write that before you actually read it?

PhilBB wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

I'm not sure if the last lot of money has been paid.  It was paid to the pro12 and was set up as part of the criteria for them to join the league.  Which Union made that payment a stipulation to cover the travel costs of their teams having to travel such distances to honour fixtures?

£1m was paid by FIRA, no?

It was meant to be towards the end of last season. I can only see articles saying it's outstanding (as of the end of last season). Can't spot an article anywhere stating it had been paid. Only based on 2 minute search, open to correction.