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PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

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PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo: - Page 17 Empty PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

Post by Guest Wed 09 Sep 2015, 12:42 pm

First topic message reminder :

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Or maybe, just maybe everyone decided to pitch their hat into the ring and see what happened

Are all teams eligible?

Well considering they were all asked to tender for it that would mean they were

Marty, because the criteria has never been made public, none of us will never know.

Sure if we had facts then we wouldn't have these conspiracy theories. Where would be the fun in that?

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Post by Guest Thu 17 Sep 2015, 12:54 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

Wrong. Because, like a few others, he refuses to consider, and challenge, the failings of his own Region. He takes the cowards way out and blames anyone else for those failings.

P.s I did explain this.

Right. I guess that you've never read my blog. Or that you cannot remember our discussion on Roger Lewis. Or that you've not seen my twitter output.

I think that those are three fair assumptions, right?

You blamed the Regions for the Regions failings. You're right, I didn't see it. Got a link?

You cannot blame the Pro Teams in Wales in isolation, of course. But you might want to start with these (and please excuse the chronology):

https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/what-are-they-fighting-for/
https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2014/12/14/where-is-everybody/
https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/dogma-or-financial-common-sense/
https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2013/09/22/the-decline-of-a-once-great-club/
https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2013/04/23/what-is-there-to-support/
https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/sink-or-swim/
https://rugbyphilbb.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/give-us-the-information-so-that-we-can-decide/

That might give you a better picture of how things work in Wales. You'll note, after reading those, that the 'coward' claim was rather misplaced but, in fairness, you weren't to know that.


Ok, I've now read all the links, and your claim that you criticise the Regions simply isn't true. You did make mention of the Regions not communicating enough with their fan base, in one article, but other than that all your criticism is directed at both Lewis and the media.

It could be that I have missed one or two points, and if so you can highlight them here.

It's interesting that even when you mention the Irish you don't criticise them, or lay fault at the foot of the IRFU for any issue you make mention of. That leads me to believe that you don't actually believe the IRFU, or anyone connected to Ireland is at fault for those issue's. I do think it's probable that you're inventing issue's with the Irish, were no real issue's exist, in order to create a conduit to channel your craving to join up with English clubs. You know the Irish are never going to abandon the Pro12, so you attack Pro12, pull it down, for no other reason than to devalue it. You don't want a successful Pro12, and it's counter productive to your agenda to support it.


Last edited by Munchkin on Thu 17 Sep 2015, 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by SecretFly Thu 17 Sep 2015, 12:55 pm

PhilBB wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
PhilBB wrote:

As for the Italians, they should be in the French system.

They should be where they want to be.  Isn't that what this is all about, sides finally being where they want to be rather than where someone else says they should be?

I'm not following, sorry. I thought that this was all about stuffing the Italians and saving Welsh rugby, with BT Sport's motives being purely along those lines.

I can't keep up with these straw men reasons you keep producing, sorry.

Not following again????

lets play nice please gents

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Post by PhilBB Thu 17 Sep 2015, 12:57 pm

Munchkin wrote:

Ok, I've now read all the links, and your claim that you criticise the Regions simply isn't true. You did make mention of the Regions not communicating enough with their fan base base, in one article, but other than that all your criticism is directed at both Lewis and the media.

It could be that I have missed one or two points, and if so you can highlight them here.

It's interesting that even when you mention the Irish you don't criticise them, or lay fault at the foot of the IRFU for any issue you make mention of. That leads me to believe that you don't actually believe the IRFU, or anyone connected to Ireland is at fault for those issue's. I do think it's probable that you're inventing issue's with the Irish, were no real issue's exist, in order to create a conduit to channel your craving to join up with English clubs. You know the Irish are never going to abandon the Pro12, so you attack Pro12, pull it down, for no other reason than to devalue it. You don't want a successful Pro12. It doesn't fit your agenda to support it.


I think that those are your words and, to be fair, that's quite an incredible comprehension you've arrived at.

I've not written a blog on the value of the PrO'12, just the workings of the Pro Teams in Welsh rugby. Therefore, there's no setting to criticise 'the Irish'.

What I did lay out was the problems internal to Welsh rugby. I think that it was you who accused me of being a 'coward' as I've not addressed those issues but now, having taken your time to read each and every article in depth (how many are there now, by the way?) you've switched that original claim to something you've invented about the IRFU.

Please do try to keep your goalposts still. If you're going to take a pop at me, and call me a coward, whilst claiming that I've not addressed the issues in Welsh rugby, please do at least have the courtesy to note your error on that point. Instead, you've conflated that with something completely different that you've just fabricated. So, to repeat, I've not written a blog on my perception of how the set up in Ireland negatively affects the PrO'12 and the Pro Teams in Wales.

The issues (not issue's) exist. But, as I've written many times without an Irish contributor picking up on this fact, they ONLY exist if you want the PrO'12 to be a transparent and vibrant league. The IRFU Annual Report covers this nicely when it notes that the Branches are set up to feed the National team as that is all that matters.

I'll 'attack' the PrO'12 not because of the Irish, but you're take on that was very revealing in a supremely 'holier than thou' way, but because the set up in its entirety is bad for Welsh rugby. It will never be popular enough with the public (even though it is more popular per catchment area than it is anywhere else in the PrO'12), it will never generate enough cash and it will never feed our natural competition with the English clubs. All of those facts exist regardless of the IRFU view on the PrO'12.
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Post by PhilBB Thu 17 Sep 2015, 12:57 pm

SecretFly wrote:

Not following again????

I don't know Phil.  Maybe a hospital trip mightn't be out of the question.  You lose a lot of clarity of thought when an evasion is required.  Could be serious.

Oh, how charming.
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Post by PhilBB Thu 17 Sep 2015, 1:08 pm

Just to continue the theme on how Irish rugby is funded, have a read of this from the IRFU Annual Report 2014-5:

The other area where the State can intervene in sport is by listing certain sports events to be designated as free-to-air broadcasts. There have been recent public statements by Minsters including the Minister for Communications, Alex White, that Ireland’s matches in the RBS 6 Nations should be listed for free-to-air broadcasting – they are currently listed for “deferred live” coverage.
The danger in this for Irish Rugby is that such a change in listing may create tensions and difficulties with the other five unions in the collective that is known as the Six Nations, which sells the rights centrally and then distributes the pooled rights on an equitable basis.
Irish Rugby gets some E15m from current RBS 6 Nations broadcast rights, six times what the Irish market is worth. Should the Irish market, encumbered by a free-to-air listing, impact the UK market where some broadcasters treat UK and Ireland as a single market, then the current distribution mechanisms may be changed to the disadvantage of the entire game in Ireland.
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Post by Guest Thu 17 Sep 2015, 1:21 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

Ok, I've now read all the links, and your claim that you criticise the Regions simply isn't true. You did make mention of the Regions not communicating enough with their fan base base, in one article, but other than that all your criticism is directed at both Lewis and the media.

It could be that I have missed one or two points, and if so you can highlight them here.

It's interesting that even when you mention the Irish you don't criticise them, or lay fault at the foot of the IRFU for any issue you make mention of. That leads me to believe that you don't actually believe the IRFU, or anyone connected to Ireland is at fault for those issue's. I do think it's probable that you're inventing issue's with the Irish, were no real issue's exist, in order to create a conduit to channel your craving to join up with English clubs. You know the Irish are never going to abandon the Pro12, so you attack Pro12, pull it down, for no other reason than to devalue it. You don't want a successful Pro12. It doesn't fit your agenda to support it.


I think that those are your words and, to be fair, that's quite an incredible comprehension you've arrived at.

I've not written a blog on the value of the PrO'12, just the workings of the Pro Teams in Welsh rugby. Therefore, there's no setting to criticise 'the Irish'.

What I did lay out was the problems internal to Welsh rugby. I think that it was you who accused me of being a 'coward' as I've not addressed those issues but now, having taken your time to read each and every article in depth (how many are there now, by the way?) you've switched that original claim to something you've invented about the IRFU.

Please do try to keep your goalposts still. If you're going to take a pop at me, and call me a coward, whilst claiming that I've not addressed the issues in Welsh rugby, please do at least have the courtesy to note your error on that point. Instead, you've conflated that with something completely different that you've just fabricated. So, to repeat, I've not written a blog on my perception of how the set up in Ireland negatively affects the PrO'12 and the Pro Teams in Wales.

The issues (not issue's) exist. But, as I've written many times without an Irish contributor picking up on this fact, they ONLY exist if you want the PrO'12 to be a transparent and vibrant league. The IRFU Annual Report covers this nicely when it notes that the Branches are set up to feed the National team as that is all that matters.

I'll 'attack' the PrO'12 not because of the Irish, but you're take on that was very revealing in a supremely 'holier than thou' way, but because the set up in its entirety is bad for Welsh rugby. It will never be popular enough with the public (even though it is more popular per catchment area than it is anywhere else in the PrO'12), it will never generate enough cash and it will never feed our natural competition with the English clubs. All of those facts exist regardless of the IRFU view on the PrO'12.

Your reply is nothing other than evasion.

First off, and to get this out of the way; my use of the word 'coward' was a bit strong (I should have worded my reply differently), but I do stand by my belief that you lack whatever is necessary to ask the hard questions of the Regions. Probably because you want nothing less than the Regions to join up with English clubs, in whatever form.

Now, you made the claim that you do indeed criticise the Regions, and provided the links as evidence that you do so. The links prove nothing of the sort. You do not criticise the Regions.

You write multiple articles on the failings of Welsh rugby, the issues, and yet you fail to mention the IRFU, the same IRFU that you are otherwise so vocal about. If you believed any issues within Welsh rugby were as a result of any actions of IRFU, you would have mentioned it.

If you honestly believed the set up of the Pro12 was bad for Welsh rugby, you would have mentioned it. You didn't and you don't. What you want is for the Regions to join English clubs, whatever the cost. The IRFU and the Pro12 stand in your way, and so you do your bit with these lame attempts at devaluing Pro12, and implying that IRFU is the bogeyman in all this.

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Post by marty2086 Thu 17 Sep 2015, 1:23 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

Ok, I've now read all the links, and your claim that you criticise the Regions simply isn't true. You did make mention of the Regions not communicating enough with their fan base base, in one article, but other than that all your criticism is directed at both Lewis and the media.

It could be that I have missed one or two points, and if so you can highlight them here.

It's interesting that even when you mention the Irish you don't criticise them, or lay fault at the foot of the IRFU for any issue you make mention of. That leads me to believe that you don't actually believe the IRFU, or anyone connected to Ireland is at fault for those issue's. I do think it's probable that you're inventing issue's with the Irish, were no real issue's exist, in order to create a conduit to channel your craving to join up with English clubs. You know the Irish are never going to abandon the Pro12, so you attack Pro12, pull it down, for no other reason than to devalue it. You don't want a successful Pro12. It doesn't fit your agenda to support it.


I think that those are your words and, to be fair, that's quite an incredible comprehension you've arrived at.

I've not written a blog on the value of the PrO'12, just the workings of the Pro Teams in Welsh rugby. Therefore, there's no setting to criticise 'the Irish'.

What I did lay out was the problems internal to Welsh rugby. I think that it was you who accused me of being a 'coward' as I've not addressed those issues but now, having taken your time to read each and every article in depth (how many are there now, by the way?) you've switched that original claim to something you've invented about the IRFU.

Please do try to keep your goalposts still. If you're going to take a pop at me, and call me a coward, whilst claiming that I've not addressed the issues in Welsh rugby, please do at least have the courtesy to note your error on that point. Instead, you've conflated that with something completely different that you've just fabricated. So, to repeat, I've not written a blog on my perception of how the set up in Ireland negatively affects the PrO'12 and the Pro Teams in Wales.

The issues (not issue's) exist. But, as I've written many times without an Irish contributor picking up on this fact, they ONLY exist if you want the PrO'12 to be a transparent and vibrant league. The IRFU Annual Report covers this nicely when it notes that the Branches are set up to feed the National team as that is all that matters.

I'll 'attack' the PrO'12 not because of the Irish, but you're take on that was very revealing in a supremely 'holier than thou' way, but because the set up in its entirety is bad for Welsh rugby. It will never be popular enough with the public (even though it is more popular per catchment area than it is anywhere else in the PrO'12), it will never generate enough cash and it will never feed our natural competition with the English clubs. All of those facts exist regardless of the IRFU view on the PrO'12.

Your reply is nothing other than evasion.

First off, and to get this out of the way; my use of the word 'coward' was a bit strong (I should have worded my reply differently), but I do stand by my belief that you lack whatever is necessary to ask the hard questions of the Regions. Probably because you want nothing less than the Regions to join up with English clubs, in whatever form.

Now, you made the claim that you do indeed criticise the Regions, and provided the links as evidence that you do so. The links prove nothing of the sort. You do not criticise the Regions.

You write multiple articles on the failings of Welsh rugby, the issues, and yet you fail to mention the IRFU, the same IRFU that you are otherwise so vocal about. If you believed any issues within Welsh rugby were as a result of any actions of IRFU, you would have mentioned it.

If you honestly believed the set up of the Pro12 was bad for Welsh rugby, you would have mentioned it. You didn't and you don't. What you want is for the Regions to join English clubs, whatever the cost. The IRFU and the Pro12 stand in your way, and so you do your bit with these lame attempts at devaluing Pro12, and implying that IRFU is the bogeyman in all this.

But he has connections, he's informed, he said he said so he must be right he wouldn't talk poopie or act like an arrogant obnoxious furious otherwise would he? Whistle

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Thu 17 Sep 2015, 1:26 pm

You're all old enough to be able to work a computer so you're all old enough to be polite enough for this discussion to continue.

Many thanks,

Modfather II

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Post by PhilBB Thu 17 Sep 2015, 1:28 pm

Munchkin wrote:

Your reply is nothing other than evasion.

First off, and to get this out of the way; my use of the word 'coward' was a bit strong (I should have worded my reply differently), but I do stand by my belief that you lack whatever is necessary to ask the hard questions of the Regions. Probably because you want nothing less than the Regions to join up with English clubs, in whatever form.

Now, you made the claim that you do indeed criticise the Regions, and provided the links as evidence that you do so. The links prove nothing of the sort. You do not criticise the Regions.

You write multiple articles on the failings of Welsh rugby, the issues, and yet you fail to mention the IFRU, the same IRFU that you are otherwise so vocal about. If you believed any issues within Welsh rugby were as a result of any actions of IRFU, you would have mentioned it.

If you honestly believed the set up of the Pro12 was bad for Welsh rugby, you would have mentioned it. You didn't and you don't. What you want is for the Regions to join English clubs, whatever the cost. The IRFU and the Pro12 stand in your way, and so you do your bit with these lame attempts at devaluing Pro12, and implying that IRFU is the bogeyman in all this.

Right, let's see if we can get to the bottom of this. What exactly am I evading?

To review, you've noted that I've written articles on the failings of Welsh rugby and that I've failed to mention the IRFU. Therefore, maybe you could have a think on this, where do you think my criticism IS aimed?

I don't believe that the internal issues of Welsh rugby are caused at all by the IRFU. I don't know how you've arrived at the belief that I would hold that view. It seems rather typical of the 'create a straw man diversion argument to try to run from the original point' tactic that seems prevalent amongst Irish rugby supporters on this board.

The set up of the PrO'12, however, is very bad for Welsh rugby - externally. I'll stand by that, of course. And, yes, I do want the Welsh Pro Teams to play in a season long competition with the English clubs as this is the only route that I believe will maintain sufficient professional rugby in Wales in the medium term.

But where your argument falls down is highlighted in your final sentence. I've not claimed that the IRFU is the bogeyman. You know I've not claimed that because, by your own admission, you've noted that I've barely (if at all) mentioned the IRFU on my blog. So why have you created the straw man argument that I've blamed the IRFU?

I'm sure that you can now see the logic chasm in your own posts.
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Post by PhilBB Thu 17 Sep 2015, 1:29 pm

marty2086 wrote:
But he has connections, he's informed, he said he said so he must be right he wouldn't talk poopie or act like an arrogant obnoxious furious otherwise would he? Whistle

Oh bless.

How are you coming along supporting your claim of Government money being used to redevelop the Arms Park? Any progress?
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Post by Guest Thu 17 Sep 2015, 2:12 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

Your reply is nothing other than evasion.

First off, and to get this out of the way; my use of the word 'coward' was a bit strong (I should have worded my reply differently), but I do stand by my belief that you lack whatever is necessary to ask the hard questions of the Regions. Probably because you want nothing less than the Regions to join up with English clubs, in whatever form.

Now, you made the claim that you do indeed criticise the Regions, and provided the links as evidence that you do so. The links prove nothing of the sort. You do not criticise the Regions.

You write multiple articles on the failings of Welsh rugby, the issues, and yet you fail to mention the IFRU, the same IRFU that you are otherwise so vocal about. If you believed any issues within Welsh rugby were as a result of any actions of IRFU, you would have mentioned it.

If you honestly believed the set up of the Pro12 was bad for Welsh rugby, you would have mentioned it. You didn't and you don't. What you want is for the Regions to join English clubs, whatever the cost. The IRFU and the Pro12 stand in your way, and so you do your bit with these lame attempts at devaluing Pro12, and implying that IRFU is the bogeyman in all this.

Right, let's see if we can get to the bottom of this. What exactly am I evading?

To review, you've noted that I've written articles on the failings of Welsh rugby and that I've failed to mention the IRFU. Therefore, maybe you could have a think on this, where do you think my criticism IS aimed?

I don't believe that the internal issues of Welsh rugby are caused at all by the IRFU. I don't know how you've arrived at the belief that I would hold that view. It seems rather typical of the 'create a straw man diversion argument to try to run from the original point' tactic that seems prevalent amongst Irish rugby supporters on this board.

The set up of the PrO'12, however, is very bad for Welsh rugby - externally. I'll stand by that, of course. And, yes, I do want the Welsh Pro Teams to play in a season long competition with the English clubs as this is the only route that I believe will maintain sufficient professional rugby in Wales in the medium term.

But where your argument falls down is highlighted in your final sentence. I've not claimed that the IRFU is the bogeyman. You know I've not claimed that because, by your own admission, you've noted that I've barely (if at all) mentioned the IRFU on my blog. So why have you created the straw man argument that I've blamed the IRFU?

I'm sure that you can now see the logic chasm in your own posts.

Do you want to write it in crayon for you?

You are evading the fact that you claimed to criticise the Regions. You claimed that the links provided proved your claim. You don't criticise them, and your links prove nothing to that effect.

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Post by PhilBB Thu 17 Sep 2015, 2:19 pm

Munchkin wrote:

Do you want to write it in crayon for you?

You are evading the fact that you claimed to criticise the Regions. You claimed that the links provided proved your claim. You don't criticise them, and your links prove nothing to that effect.

Right, ok. I see that you've interpreted them badly. Fair enough.

In which case, I'll go back to the question in my post that you've just ignored:

"To review, you've noted that I've written articles on the failings of Welsh rugby and that I've failed to mention the IRFU. Therefore, maybe you could have a think on this, where do you think my criticism IS aimed?"

And you seem to have (cowardly?) evaded the note that you've created a straw man (IRFU bogeyman) argument that had no basis in anything I've written, yet you chose to aim it at me.

That's pretty poor work, munchkin. Dishonest, in fact.
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Post by Guest Thu 17 Sep 2015, 2:40 pm

Interpreted what badly? Post them here. Let's see what it is that I have interpreted badly.

I'm not evading anything. I'm waiting until you provide the proof, from those links, that prove you criticise the Regions.

So, the ball is in your court, Phil.

Don't evade.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 17 Sep 2015, 4:28 pm

PhilBB wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:

Wouldn't it be more likely that Sky would get annoyed at BT arranging a domestic comp for the clubs and possibly playing with fire for some EU rules on competition?

I'm not asking what you think on the Italians. I'm asking why BT would exclude them? The French aren't going to take them and you said this was about expaning the game.

I don't see how it would be more likely or how any EU rules on competition are being affected. Could you explain the reasoning behind that question as it seems awfully out of place to me.

It is about expanding the game. In Britain and Ireland. How many times do I have to write that before you actually read it?

So why arent BT bothered about Italy?

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Post by Marshes Thu 17 Sep 2015, 11:46 pm

I would love to hear more from the Scottish supporters on this topic rather than this trench warfare. I know there are plenty on 606, but maybe they just have too much sense!

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Post by Guest Fri 18 Sep 2015, 12:31 am

I was thinking the same a few days ago. The Scots do show more sense staying out of it. They tend not to get involved in our bickering on any threads. Fair play to them.

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Post by Stone Motif Fri 18 Sep 2015, 8:38 am

What about the Italians?

Won't somebody please think of the Italians?
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Post by SecretFly Fri 18 Sep 2015, 9:48 am

laughing Laugh the Italians...................... Yahoo Laugh Laugh

God, the eejits. Don't they ever get the message. F**k off, lads, nobody want's yis.

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Sep 2015, 9:48 am

Munchkin wrote:Interpreted what badly? Post them here. Let's see what it is that I have interpreted badly.

I'm not evading anything. I'm waiting until you provide the proof, from those links, that prove you criticise the Regions.

So, the ball is in your court, Phil.

Don't evade.


Tumbleweed

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Post by SecretFly Mon 21 Sep 2015, 10:32 am

Did we lose a pioneer, Munch???

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Sep 2015, 10:43 am

Seems that way, Fly. Looks like Phil has Run

We win Yahoo

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 21 Sep 2015, 10:46 am

Yep, you have won the internet. Well done boys. No wonder people are dropping from this forum quicker than players from the Welsh squad,what with the superiority complex the Irish members have on here. Rolling Eyes

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Post by SecretFly Mon 21 Sep 2015, 10:49 am

We're being ironic there, Lord. Phil will undoubtedly return to fight the good fight. The war is Eternal. Polish your armour, it's going to be a long year.....

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Sep 2015, 10:57 am

LordDowlais wrote:Yep, you have won the internet. Well done boys. No wonder people are dropping from this forum quicker than players from the Welsh squad,what with the superiority complex the Irish members have on here. Rolling Eyes

Well, facts are superior to fiction in any debate.

Can't help but appear superior when arguing against your tin hatted conspiracy theories, I suppose.

I'm enjoying your sour grapes though, LD. Keep it up Very Happy

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Post by LordDowlais Mon 21 Sep 2015, 11:00 am

Munchkin, shouldn't you be on the English salary cap thread and lording it over them and telling them how they are doing wrong, even though the Irish provinces spend twice as much as most of the English sides on wages ? Superiority complex at it's very best. picard

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Post by marty2086 Mon 21 Sep 2015, 11:06 am

LordDowlais wrote:Munchkin, shouldn't you be on the English salary cap thread and lording it over them and telling them how they are doing wrong, even though the Irish provinces allegedly spend twice as much as most of the English sides on wages ? Superiority complex at it's very best. picard

Fixed that for you LD

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Post by SecretFly Mon 21 Sep 2015, 11:06 am

Well I guess we're learning how to Lord it over other people and tell them where they're going wrong, Lord. We've have had plenty of lessons on our own Pro12 threads:

"The Pro12 - and how it could all be so much better if the Irish got their house, their airports, their trains, ferries, cars, National debt, Natural borders, Political borders, days of the week, months of the year, hours of the day, Provinces, clubs, stadiums, budgets, players, potatoes and beer in order"

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Sep 2015, 11:20 am

LordDowlais wrote:Munchkin, shouldn't you be on the English salary cap thread and lording it over them and telling them how they are doing wrong, even though the Irish provinces spend twice as much as most of the English sides on wages ? Superiority complex at it's very best. picard

As I said; Facts are superior to fiction in any debate. Just for giggles; would you like to provide the facts that the Provinces are paid twice the amount of the English clubs? No? That would be because you don't have any facts. Just your imagination.... as usual.

I have been over on the English cap thread and added just a few comments. On that thread you will find that the English posters are debating facts, not fiction. You will find that they are almost all agreed, bar one, as to what did happen, and what should now happen as a result. You will also find that they are not blaming anyone else for the issues within AP/PRL. They own those issues and, from the little I have read, are more than prepared to accept the guilt and due punishment of their clubs, should their clubs be found to be as guilty as those mentioned. They want honesty. I fully respect that.

They are also not trolling the threads with false accusations against the IRFU, the Provinces.... Unlike you.


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Post by marty2086 Mon 21 Sep 2015, 12:42 pm

Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Munchkin, shouldn't you be on the English salary cap thread and lording it over them and telling them how they are doing wrong, even though the Irish provinces spend twice as much as most of the English sides on wages ? Superiority complex at it's very best. picard

As I said; Facts are superior to fiction in any debate. Just for giggles; would you like to provide the facts that the Provinces are paid twice the amount of the English clubs? No? That would be because you don't have any facts. Just your imagination.... as usual.

I have been over on the English cap thread and added just a few comments. On that thread you will find that the English posters are debating facts, not fiction. You will find that they are almost all agreed, bar one, as to what did happen, and what should now happen as a result. You will also find that they are not blaming anyone else for the issues within AP/PRL. They own those issues and, from the little I have read, are more than prepared to accept the guilt and due punishment of their clubs, should their clubs be found to be as guilty as those mentioned. They want honesty. I fully respect that.

They are also not trolling the threads with false accusations against the IRFU, the Provinces.... Unlike you.


Munchkin, it seems LD is using some figures previously quoted on here and on a few Welsh blogs, SportsJoe have quoted the figure too. They are well thought out and the maths hold up but do need you to make a number of assumptions to get to the final figure, such as that the cost of the professional game figures in the IRFU accounts are solely a wage bill and that the cost of coaching and management team for the Ireland squad is €1m , that Connacht get half the other provinces, the other 3 get an equal share and that the player costs in Leinsters accounts are solely wages.

The figure work out at about €10.5m which translates to about £7.25m, the AP salary cap is £5.1 though LD forgot that AP clubs have 2 players who are exempt plus their academy, they get credits for players being away on international duty and credits for home grown players of £400k each not to mention injury covers are exempt.

So the Irish do pay double if you ignore the exchange rate, the assumptions made, that the provinces wage bill includes all players, that the AP clubs have numerous exemptions to the cap, that AP clubs are spending money they don't have and that clubs are breaking the cap

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Sep 2015, 1:07 pm

I have seen various figures from various sources, the funniest being the Carlos article on GWlad, but none of them come close to 'twice the amount', as is claimed by LD, including the ones you provide.

I would be more interested in the actual wage spend on a squad, and then include gifts, jobs for relatives, pension schemes, sponsors and all other means used to sweeten the pot.

The Provinces don't have a salary cap as such, but the NIQ restrictions act as a salary cap, and I would say that would be more effective than the salary cap of other leagues in keeping spending in check.

I wouldn't have an issue with the Provinces having a bigger spend on players. If the IRFU, and the Provinces, have the money, and use that money wisely, then great. It's just that because of the NIQ restrictions I don't believe we actually spend as much as is being claimed on player wages.

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Post by marty2086 Mon 21 Sep 2015, 1:45 pm

I think it was Carlos article that I remember and one on an Ospreys forum.

The provinces have their budgets and as you say if they have the money your happy for them to spend it, unlike some clubs who are spending money even though they don't have it

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Sep 2015, 2:24 pm

Exactly, we have to spend within our means, even if that means losing players to T14. There's no point attempting to compete with them if we are paying with money we don't have. It would catch up with us eventually, and possibly destroy rugby union in Ireland. The likes of the AP and T14 would be fine if two or three teams go to the wall. They have the Premiership and D2 to draw from. We don't have that luxury.

The key to any future success for us is to continue to invest in growing the game here, the grassroots and the academies.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Mon 21 Sep 2015, 6:12 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Yep, you have won the internet. Well done boys. No wonder people are dropping from this forum quicker than players from the Welsh squad,what with the superiority complex the Irish members have on here. Rolling Eyes

Oh the Irish are to blame for that too? Oh dear, we're terribly sorry.

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Sep 2015, 6:55 pm

Indeed, Rory. Something to do with our 'superiority complex' king

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Post by Sin é Tue 22 Sep 2015, 9:57 pm

Hilarious comment at the bottom of Paul Rees' Canada v Ireland match report. Most of the comments are about how negative Rees is. We really get up their noses in Wales!


parchedpen (Guardian comments)


"Johnny Sexton Helps Ireland to Disappointing Massive Victory"


"Ireland v Canada: Rugby World Cup 2015 – as it was written.
Welsh Reporter inevitably had too much bias and shook off the traces of objectivity to demolish Ireland’s seven-try demolition of Canada in – oh the irony of it all – Cardiff.
Read More..."

"If the ability to string two words together is to be the deciding factor in World Cup reporting, Paul Rees will be among the contenders, but if the destiny of journalistic integrity comes down to objectivity, he will not. He wrote 12 paragraphs in a quality, broadsheet English newspaper, but his writing was more one-sided than wondrous.

Rees was always going to write disparagingly of Ireland and more bile from the valleys is doubtless yet to come, but he needs to add impartiality to supplement the vision of The Scott Trust. He briefly praised an Irish player in paragraph two but, overall, was resolute in his partisanship, withstanding the temptation to be fair-minded either side of that fleeting reference to Luke Fitzgerald.

Every non-Irish team starts boldly for this Welsh sports reporter, attacking the boring, uninventive, unimaginative Irish who have inexplicably managed to win back-to-back Six Nations championships in the last two years. During a predictably wooden performance on Saturday, a limited Irish side only managed to dot down seven times.

This against a team ranked an entire four places below Italy, who a full-strength Welsh team crushed 23-19 two weeks ago. En route to that notable victory, Warren Gatland’s men had underlined their World Cup credentials with an expansive, flair-ridden game plan centred on giving very big men the ball and having them run straight at – and sometimes even past – the opposition, leading to an incredible 1 try for, and two against.

Conversely, it took Ireland a disappointing 13 minutes to score Saturday’s first points through the boot of Sexton and their mechanical approach, telegraphed loops and miss-passes, left Wales (oops Canada) in little doubt defensively. Indeed, despite conceding three penalties in a minute at the breakdown, which clearly was not the result of Irish pressure, Canada were the better team until their captain, Cudmore, was needlessly sin-binned.

By the time he returned, Ireland had scored three boring tries in a tedious, lopsided game. For the first try, Ian Henderson off-loaded to non-entity Sean O’Brien, but only after making several basic, selfish and unforgiveable schoolboy-type errors.

Seven minutes later, despite multiple Irish mistakes, Henderson, despite not being Welsh, scored himself. Sexton then managed to complete a very dull 40-yard dash to dot down in a score clearly owing everything to Canadian failings and nothing to exciting, opportunistic open field play from the Irish. In an unimportant aside, Sexton passed the 500-points mark in international rugby.

The sun broke through the clouds on the stroke of halftime but fled again when a Canadian try was disallowed, much to the delight of thousands of very rude and unsporting Irish fans who jeered so heartily it was clear they thought they were playing Wales, because Irish rugby is obsessed with Welsh rugby and obviously has some sort of a chip on its shoulder about the subject.

At the start of the second half, despite having their captain sin-binned, Ireland failed to score, inexplicably preferring to spend the 10 minutes without Paul O’Connell, not conceding a try. Canada magnificently laid siege to the Irish line but failed to score, before perhaps the most wooden out-half in the world, Johnny Sexton, made lots of mistakes and caused the game to become so boring that thousands of Canadian and [unsporting] Irish supporters, started a Mexican wave.

This public disinterest continued until the 67th minute when Ireland scored four lucky, boring and undeserved tries against a Canadian team, which had collapsed in a way a Warren Gatland-led Welsh team never would. A boring 50-metre sprint by Earls ended in a lucky Kearney try before the Ian Madigan slipped a lucky pass to Kiwi ,Jared Payne, and the non-Irishman dotted down.

The unremarkable Henderson was justly denied a second before the error-prone Irish fullback, Rob Kearney, needlessly passed the ball into touch, drawing the final curtain on what must surely go down as one of the luckiest, most mistake-strewn 50-7, seven-try, bonus point victories of all time in Rugby World Cup history.

The final paragraph brought to a close a comfortable but not a particularly impressive article for the Welsh journalist who had thoughtfully filed his copy well in advance of the start of the Saturday match."


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/19/ireland-canada-rugby-world-cup-2015-match-report

The comment is about halfway down.
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Post by SecretFly Tue 22 Sep 2015, 10:28 pm

I read the Rees piece the day after the game and had a bit of a quiet laugh.

Gotta say though that Welsh posters here were quick to heap praise on the nature of the win.

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Post by Guest Tue 22 Sep 2015, 10:44 pm

Rees is just a low grade jouro who sold his soul for clickbiat long ago. Has to be the only reason the Guardian still employ him.

He's a silly wee man Very Happy

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Post by marty2086 Wed 23 Sep 2015, 2:56 pm

I thought everyone in Wales was briefed on the Irish Rugby Mafia that had infested all rugby organisations in Dublin as part of the grand conspiracy to rig the sport, meaning that Irelands style of play doesn't matter as we will be World Champions Yahoo

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Post by Sin é Fri 25 Sep 2015, 11:55 am

Can't remember which thread I had a long 'discussion' about the merits of Cardiff as a tourist destination and some discussion about the smell of the Liffey!

Interesting comments about Cardiff in today's Irish Times which I'm sure will distract our Welsh friends from the immediate worry of facing England tomorrow Smile

Irish Times wrote:Cardiff gets a bum wrap. Listening to Hugh Cahill, a top bloke, commentator and presenter, on 2FM’s Game On before flying to Cardiff last Thursday morning, he was lacerating the place. It’s a popular sport, laying into the Welsh capital. The English joke that they shouldn’t be asked to pay into Cardiff via the Severn Bridge – rather that they should only required to pay the exit toll.

Owen Farrell has been chosen to start at outhalf ahead of team-mate George Ford for England against Wales. Photo: David Rogers/Getty ImagesStuart Lancaster’s reputation at stake after he makes big calls
Scotland coach Vern Cotter has made 10 changes to his side ahead of Sunday’s Pool B clash with USA. Photograph: PA Vern Cotter makes 10 changes to Scotland side for USA
Ireland’s Jared Payne, Luke Fitzgerald, Jonathan Sexton, Rob Kearney, Paul O’Connell, Simon Zebo and Tommy Bowe enjoying their rest day at Alton Towers, Staffordshire. Photograph: Dan Sheridan/InphoMultiple changes on the cards as Schmidt sticks to overall plan
England coach Stuart Lancaster has taken a big risk by omitting outhalf George Ford for the vital clash with Wales. Photo: David Rogers/GettyLiam Toland: Ireland poised to expose Romania’s deficiencies
Tomas Francis starts for Wales against England on Saturday night despite having just three international caps. Photograph: GettyTomas Francis smiling ahead of pivotal England encounter
Follow all the Rugby World Cup action

Well, the Red Dragonhood’s supporters will be paying in and out in the droves this weekend, for the long-awaited Anglo-Welsh set-to. The demand for tickets has been greater than for the World Cup final itself, and one ventures the Welsh fans may have had something to do with that. And unlike vast swathes of London, in Cardiff you assuredly know when it’s a rugby weekend.
More tricky
Granted, it can resemble Temple Bar in St Mary’s Street and its surrounds on a Friday or Saturday night, but there’s a nice atmosphere on a Thursday night, and all the good restaurants and bars are nicely accessible, which admittedly is a tad more tricky on a rugby weekend.

It’s also true that there are insufficient hotel rooms for a mass rugby invasion, and hotels grossly overcharge. Yet everything is within walking distance, and there’s a proper feel of an occasion for a rugby match. That all applied when the estimated 50,000 Green Army descended upon Cardiff last Friday and especially Saturday. Not having to commute from London or even Bristol by train, and certainly not having to commute back, was to dodge a bullet. Cardiff train station was hideously over-crowded.

But the streets of Cardiff and the Millennium Stadium have generally been good for Irish sides, be it the national team or Munster and Leinster especially. There have been Grand Slam and Heineken Cup coronations there for all three. Not surprisingly, as an away venue, Irish players repeatedly cite it as one of their favourite venues.

No less than for those Heineken Cup finals, the crawl on the team bus which takes in one end of a sunlit St Mary’s St swarming in green-clad supporters opened the players’ eyes as to how much the opener against Canada would be akin to a home match. Given their familiarity with the venue, and the likelihood of this being repeated for the next three pool games this is helpful.

Even Welsh journalist colleagues were impressed by the sense of occasion on Saturday. Then the Brave Blossoms did the unthinkable, and no less than the accompanying roars in the adjoining Cardiff Arms Park fanzone, even the press room erupted like everywhere else bar South Africa when Japan won.

Cardiff, as a city, knows what to expect on such weekends and responds accordingly. The clean-up operation had the streets ready to go again from early in the morning on Sunday, which began with first sightings of the pockets of Uruguay fans. Cue the mass Welsh invasion in red, and leaving Cardiff by car, the bumper-to-bumper tailback went on for miles and miles in the opposite direction. Definitely better to be departing rather than arriving.


http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/rwc-letter-london-now-calling-for-ireland-1.2365432

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Post by Stone Motif Sat 26 Sep 2015, 5:31 pm

Well, seems as though this thread has lost all attractiveness to the Welsh fan, and descended into an incestuous bore fest that runs on purely for the benefit of the Irish. Now why is that so familiar....
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Post by marty2086 Sat 26 Sep 2015, 10:51 pm

The Welsh fan being Chunky/Phil?

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Post by Guest Sun 27 Sep 2015, 2:58 am

Stone Motif wrote:Well, seems as though this thread has lost all attractiveness to the Welsh fan, and descended into an incestuous bore fest that runs on purely for the benefit of the Irish. Now why is that so familiar....

Interesting to see bans one way, isn't it.

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Post by SecretFly Sun 27 Sep 2015, 8:56 am

Congratulations on the win lads Wink Go celebrate. The Pro12 must be small on the agenda at this point.

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Post by Guest Sun 27 Sep 2015, 10:47 am

Risca Rev wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:Well, seems as though this thread has lost all attractiveness to the Welsh fan, and descended into an incestuous bore fest that runs on purely for the benefit of the Irish. Now why is that so familiar....

Interesting to see bans one way, isn't it.

Was Chunky Phil banned? If so, who else deserved a ban, and why?

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Post by Sin é Sun 27 Sep 2015, 1:18 pm

Just hearing that Ireland v Romania will be the best attended games in a world cup at 90,000.

No wonder the English clubs would like the Big 3 Irish Provinces in the Aviva Premiership! Smile
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Post by Stone Motif Sun 27 Sep 2015, 1:24 pm

Sin é wrote:Just hearing that Ireland v Romania will be the best attended games in a world cup at 90,000.

No wonder the English clubs would like the Big 3 Irish Provinces in the Aviva Premiership! Smile

Unfortunately, the attendance figures need to be balanced against what the O'telly company wants to pay to broadcast the game, which has been estimated to be around €5
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Post by Sin é Sun 27 Sep 2015, 1:37 pm

Far more likely quite a lot of the people at the match today buy their TV licence from her Majesty's Government and thats why the BBC pay so much Whistle
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Post by Chunky Norwich Sun 27 Sep 2015, 9:14 pm

marty2086 wrote:The Welsh fan being Chunky/Phil?

Munchkin wrote:
Was Chunky Phil banned?

Can you explain what these posts mean? Are you implying that posters are utilizing multiple logins, and accusing me of doing so?

Thanks.

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Post by Guest Mon 28 Sep 2015, 11:42 am

You're back, Chunky Very Happy

Yes, that's what I was implying. Could be wrong, but it does seem odd that you are both joined at the hip in terms of appearing/disappearing. You also have similar styles of typing. Hardly damning evidence, but enough to amuse me with a little conspiracy theory of my own. It's not as if posters having multiple accounts is unheard of, is it?

One thing that bothers me with this theory is that I think you're a Scarlets fan. You are a Scarlets fan?

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Post by SecretFly Mon 28 Sep 2015, 11:48 am

A Dragons fan, I thought.

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