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France v Ireland, 11 October

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Post by George Carlin Sun 04 Oct 2015, 11:13 am

First topic message reminder :

France v Ireland, 11 October - Page 4 France11France v Ireland, 11 October - Page 4 Irelan11
FRANCE v IRELAND
11 October 2015
KO: 16:45
The Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Touch judges:Wayne Barnes (England) & Leighton Hodges (Wales)
Television match official: Graham Hughes (England)

A. Head to Head

93 Played 93
55 Won 31
7 Drawn 7
31 Lost 55
1508 Points 1084

B. Recent Form

14 February 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
18 – 11 to Ireland

15 March 2014
Stade de France, Saint Denis
20 – 22 to Ireland

9 March 2013
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
13 – 13 Draw

4 March 2012
Stade de France, Saint Denis
17 – 17 Draw

20 August 2011
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
22 – 26 to France

13 August 2011
Stade Chaban-Delmas, Bordeaux
19 – 12 to France

C. Teams

FRANCE
France v Ireland, 11 October - Page 4 French10
15 Scott Spedding, 14 Noa Nakaitaci, 13 Mathieu Bastareaud, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Brice Dulin, 10 Frederic Michalak, 9 Sebastien Tillous-Borde; 1 Eddy Ben Arous, 2 Guilhem Guirado, 3 Rabah Slimani, 4 Pascal Pape, 5 Yoann Maestri, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 7 Damien Chouly, 8 Louis Picamoles.

Replacements: 16 Benjamin Kayser, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Nicolas Mas, 19 Alexandre Flanquart, 20 Bernard Le Roux, 21 Morgan Parra, 22 Remi Tales, 23 Alexandre Dumoulin.

IRELAND
France v Ireland, 11 October - Page 4 Irish-10
15 Rob Kearney, 14 Tommy Bowe, 13 Keith Earls, 12 Robbie Henshaw , 11 Dave Kearney,  10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 1 Cian Healy, 2 Rory Best, 3 Mike Ross, 4 Devin Toner, 5 Paul O'Connell (c), 6 Peter O'Mahony, 7 Sean O'Brien, 8 Jamie Heaslip.

Replacements: 16 Richardt Strauss, 17 Jack McGrath, 18 Nathan White, 19 Iain Henderson, 20 Chris Henry, 21 Eoin Reddan, 22 Ian Madigan, 23 Luke Fitzgerald.


Last edited by George Carlin on Sat 10 Oct 2015, 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by eirebilly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:26 pm

Its not on the back of a poor performance against Italy rodders, Ireland did not perform well in the warm-ups either. I am not saying that Ireland are underdogs either but am just not writing France off so easily.
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Post by RubyGuby Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:27 pm

Bookies only have a 2pt spread to France Rodders. It could be worse, the same fecking Irish bookies are already giving odds for Wales v SA semi final - They've bypassed the fecking Aus game. Touch of the anglos about that for me thumbsup

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Post by RubyGuby Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:30 pm

Paddy Power FFS Shocked Sad furious

17th Oct 2015
16:00 South Africa v Wales
(-6.0)

20:00 New Zealand v France

(-10.0)

18th Oct 2015
13:00 Ireland v Argentina
(-6.0)



16:00 Australia v Scotland
(-13.0)








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Post by Pal Joey Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:32 pm

eirebilly wrote:I think some may take France lightly there Guru but I sure as hell wont.
You know what to do. A clean pair of undies (not 5 days old turned inside out) should really put the Frogs off their game.
Remember to brush your teeth also.

eirebilly wrote:Good luck to your lads against the crims.
Laugh
Love it!
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Post by rodders Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:34 pm

eirebilly wrote:Its not on the back of a poor performance against Italy rodders, Ireland did not perform well in the warm-ups either. I am not saying that Ireland are underdogs either but am just not writing France off so easily.

And the reasons for that are well documented. That the group decided to stagger the training and peak later, using the warm-ups as part of the conditioning routine, rather than tapering off and final preparation for the tournament.

It's no coincidence that the slickest performance came from or 2nd/3rd string in Cardiff as they were a month ahead of the first team in their preparation.

I would read very little into those performances, if they counted for something England wouldn't be packing to go home.
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Post by eirebilly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:35 pm

Never thought of that LD, hopefully Schmidt has thumbsup

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Post by Pal Joey Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:37 pm

eirebilly wrote:Never thought of that LD, hopefully Schmidt has thumbsup


Smells like someone's been trawling your FB page. Had a huge laugh on the weekend. Tears almost streaming out of my ears.
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Post by eirebilly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:39 pm

rodders wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Its not on the back of a poor performance against Italy rodders, Ireland did not perform well in the warm-ups either. I am not saying that Ireland are underdogs either but am just not writing France off so easily.

And the reasons for that are well documented. That the group decided to stagger the training and peak later, using the warm-ups as part of the conditioning routine, rather than tapering off and final preparation for the tournament.

It's no coincidence that the slickest performance came from or 2nd/3rd string in Cardiff as they were a month ahead of the first team in their preparation.

I would read very little into those performances, if they counted for something England wouldn't be packing to go home.

That would be because England were in a far tougher group than Ireland. I would think Ireland would be lucky to get out of that group myself.

I am aware of the training staggered approach but also have considered it a risky approach. Sexton is yet to find full match fitness and is not playing his usual quality game and Murray has also been off form. They have to click against France for Ireland to top the group.
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Post by eirebilly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:40 pm

The Loaded Dog wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Never thought of that LD, hopefully Schmidt has thumbsup


Smells like someone's been trawling your FB page. Had a huge laugh on the weekend. Tears almost streaming out of my ears.

laughing Herself is an evil one Smile
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Post by Pal Joey Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:42 pm

eirebilly wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Never thought of that LD, hopefully Schmidt has thumbsup


Smells like someone's been trawling your FB page. Had a huge laugh on the weekend. Tears almost streaming out of my ears.

laughing  Herself is an evil one Smile

Stick with her.
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Post by eirebilly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:43 pm

I cant get away LD, she has me on a short leash Wink
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Post by Pal Joey Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:47 pm

Good!

The more I think about this match... MS should not be seen as too neutral a venue, should it?
Must be hordes of your guys streaming over the Irish Sea about now. I bet you wish you were there.
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Post by Notch Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:52 pm

I don't really accept that France have been better than us in the World Cup, although neither side has truly been tested yet. We should be quietly confident, just not in anyway over-confident. I imagine it will be close but I also think we will win.

I feel like it will be a tight game and we have the acumen to vary our game and spring a few surprises; do France?
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Post by eirebilly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:52 pm

I will be at 1/4 final 3 so hopefully Ireland top the group and I get to watch them play the steak boys Very Happy
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Post by RubyGuby Thu 08 Oct 2015, 3:57 pm

"we have the acumen to vary our game and spring a few surprises; do France?"

Joking aside Notch I think France are the ones with all the acumen and surprise - Indeed, I don't think they know what they are going to do themselves half the time. Ireland are more structured and conservative but they have enough to win if their defence holds up

thumbsup

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Post by eirebilly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 4:34 pm

I also agree that France are more likely to spring a surprise than Ireland are.
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Post by rodders Thu 08 Oct 2015, 4:37 pm

They'll surprise me if they win Smile
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Post by RubyGuby Thu 08 Oct 2015, 4:40 pm

rodders wrote:They'll surprise me if they win Smile

You got there before me Rodders - But then again it depends on what the sort of spring you want to surprise. After all you do have Dick Spring Hug

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Post by Marshes Thu 08 Oct 2015, 4:41 pm

When was the last time France truly sprung a big surprise for the positive? They are as likely to be on the receiving end of a surprise. It's more of a surprise given the players they have that they are not more competitive.

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Post by munkian Thu 08 Oct 2015, 5:15 pm

Notch wrote:I don't really accept that France have been better than us in the World Cup, although neither side has truly been tested yet. We should be quietly confident, just not in anyway over-confident. I imagine it will be close but I also think we will win.

I feel like it will be a tight game and we have the acumen to vary our game and spring a few surprises; do France?

Italy tested you pretty well for while...
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Post by majesticimperialman Thu 08 Oct 2015, 5:20 pm

Notch wrote:I don't really accept that France have been better than us in the World Cup, although neither side has truly been tested yet. We should be quietly confident, just not in anyway over-confident. I imagine it will be close but I also think we will win.

I feel like it will be a tight game and we have the acumen to vary our game and spring a few surprises; do France?


I too feel it will be a tight game. ....But if Ireland play like they did against Italy, then the French will win at a canter.

Ireland have to play a lot better this week than they played last week. They can play better than they played last week, but will France allow them too.

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Post by eirebilly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 5:32 pm

Marshes wrote:When was the last time France truly sprung a big surprise for the positive? They are as likely to be on the receiving end of a surprise. It's more of a surprise given the players they have that they are not more competitive.

The thing that gets me about France is that they are an excellent tournament team. They certainly look in better shape at this RWC than they did in the 6N. There is a surprise for me as I thought that they were very much on a downward spiral.
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Post by SecretFly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 7:26 pm

Downward spiral to where?

Most lucrative League in the World. Best European Record in the World Cup (bar the English win). A long history of churning out 'Natural' players (Obsessed Scrummagers and evasive backs)

The 6N is not their priority. We're much too self obsessed in the four Nations to the left of them about ourselves. The French don't give a damn about us, The Lions - and the 6N is okay and they'd prefer win it than lose it, but it Isn't their priority. The WC is their priority.

Any downward trend in form is just like England's - temporary. They have too many options to sink without a trace.

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Post by Cyril Thu 08 Oct 2015, 7:33 pm

I think it is (or was) a relative downward spiral. France are always dangerous.

2011 tells us that.

I do agree that France are more geared towards their own league (and why not, it's their bread and butter and a very popular and well-supported competition?) and the RWC.

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Post by eirebilly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 7:36 pm

I was referring to their league Fly. The fact that they buy so many top players which has to have a negative effect on their national team as fewer and fewer French players are getting exposure in the big leagues. It has a very big impact on player strength in depth.
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Post by Cyril Thu 08 Oct 2015, 7:38 pm

Even with the foreign players, France still have good strength in depth compared to other European sides. 14 sides versus 4 (or 2) is still an advantage.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 7:43 pm

They still have 14 top sides, billy.  14 of them.  Plenty of opportunity for French players to get top exposure (against top quality International standard players too, mind you) in virtually every position.

I think that idea that Foreign players are taking up all the important roles and leaving the home players lacking experience is a little stretched.  The Top14 sides also play more games in a season.  

There is more than enough there to compile top quality French squads year in and year out.  The only issue might be the increasing demands of club when it comes to being stingy with releasing players to get sufficient time together each year to gel.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 7:44 pm

Cyril beat me to it

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Post by Cyril Thu 08 Oct 2015, 7:47 pm

SecretFly wrote:Cyril beat me to it

Nothing to be ashamed of, Fly. With England out I've got more time on my hands Sad

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Post by Pot Hale Thu 08 Oct 2015, 8:05 pm

Beginning to feel more confident about this weekend's game with Zlatan Sexton leading the troops in his own inimitable French style.

The Racing boys haven't been shy about giving him a bit of stick and making threats this week.

Sounds like he'll need to be wearing body armour.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 8:11 pm

It seems the Racing boys didn't like a 10 acting a 10.

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Post by Notch Thu 08 Oct 2015, 8:23 pm

munkian wrote:
Notch wrote:I don't really accept that France have been better than us in the World Cup, although neither side has truly been tested yet. We should be quietly confident, just not in anyway over-confident. I imagine it will be close but I also think we will win.

I feel like it will be a tight game and we have the acumen to vary our game and spring a few surprises; do France?

Italy tested you pretty well for while...

Yeah but a test match were you can play at about 30 or 40% and still win isn't really that testing. A really hard test match would be a game where if you fall short in your performance you will fall short on the scoreboard as well and I think thats the way it will be for the rest of the tournament, whether that lasts for 2 more games or 4 more games.
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Post by Cyril Thu 08 Oct 2015, 8:29 pm

Notch, I do wonder how you say Ireland were at 30%-40%? Were Italy at 100%?

Not trying to downgrade or upgrade either side's performance. Just wondering.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 8:33 pm

Well what would you think, Cyril?

Italy at 70 to 80%? Ireland at what?

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Post by Cyril Thu 08 Oct 2015, 8:35 pm

What would see the two sides at a similar level? Like the game we saw?

Ireland 50% and Italy 90%?

I dunno.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 8:43 pm

Given that few sides reach 100% (even the ABs moan about things they could have done better after one of their better performances)

I'd say Italy were at between 70% and 80% of what their very best would be. The try might have risen them into the 90% with the adrenalin they'd have gained from the closeness.

Ireland were I'd say between 40 to 50% of their best.

It's all opinion of course. The deal is Ireland were way off their best and Italy threatened to reach their best (as considered lesser sides have been doing in this WC)

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Post by Notch Thu 08 Oct 2015, 8:56 pm

RubyGuby wrote:"we have the acumen to vary our game and spring a few surprises; do France?"

Joking aside Notch I think France are the ones with all the acumen and surprise - Indeed, I don't think they know what they are going to do themselves half the time. Ireland are more structured and conservative but they have enough to win if their defence holds up

thumbsup

I don't agree. If you look at some of the power plays we've scored with under Schmidt they are often planned moves that haven't been seen before and often haven't been seen since. Sometimes when we use planned moves they don't work or aren't executed well but Schmidt is famous for poring over hours of video and giving a team a power play and saying- if you do this and execute it you will score. Doesn't mean it's a backs move. One of my very favourite Schmidt power plays was a line out move, beautiful in its simplicity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UlRgZNoo3JY

Murray Kinsella breaks it down in micro-detail but the takeaway is it's smoke and mirrors- it's drawing them towards committing one way and hitting them where they least expect it.

France on the other hand may play off the cuff but we expect them to play off the cuff and improvise occasionally- what would be real surprise is if they pulled off a power play that works by the opposition thinking they know what you're going to do and then you do something unexpected and catch them out. My favourite example of this in the World Cup so far was the try Bernard Foley and Kurtley Beale pulled off against England- the back row and centres were working so hard to get around the corner they left Launchbury isolated on the other side of the ruck and were caught out by a fairly simple switch. France have had very little of that kind of subtlety and variation under PSA. I expect French players to see whats on and try and do things as individuals rather than executing careful plans as a team, and I expect them to invest a lot of time and energy in trying to run over us, maul us, out scrum us and generally try to beat us up. The former is more likely to result in mistakes than tries based on what I've seen of them (except there's always that horrible chance it comes off perfectly) and the latter might work relatively well; but I think they are predictable as a team. Obviously doesn't mean they won't win- brute force is effective, especially if your winning penalties at the scrum and pushing teams back in the maul. And if they manage to injure Jonny Sexton early on- because let's be honest, they really want to- it has huge implications for us in this game and the next. They have plenty of ball carriers who can get over the gainline and stress our defence- but we know whats coming from them. I don't think they'll be able to prepare for everything Ireland throw back at them.

Top-flight Test Rugby is increasingly less about maverick players who can create 'a bit of magic' and more and more about chess-like set piece moves based on hours of careful drills and video analysis. France are a throwback, while Ireland are the archetypal modern team. Always an interesting clash of styles and always a close encounter, but if we had the talent France have it wouldn't be so close. With better coaching they'd be a hell of a team. Their talent and power alone is why the gap is very small and why we should not be over-confident. In terms of the class of the players on the team sheets as individuals they have a big advantage but in terms of intelligence and tactical acumen we close that gap. Now imagine if they actually sorted out their coaching and preparation.

Scary innit? Wink
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Post by ME-109 Thu 08 Oct 2015, 9:47 pm

Its a little bit of bad taste to suggest that the French really want to injure Sexton in no way has that been said or intimated....

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Post by SecretFly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 9:57 pm

Look, if we can beat Germany, we can beat France. Sexton just has to pass it to Long.

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Post by Cyril Thu 08 Oct 2015, 10:15 pm

ME-109 wrote:Its a little bit of bad taste to suggest that the French really want to injure Sexton in no way has that been said or intimated....

True. But Sexton has the face that could be improved/made worse by the a random hit.

He couldn't get more ugly.

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Post by Notch Thu 08 Oct 2015, 10:18 pm

ME-109 wrote:Its a little bit of bad taste to suggest that the French really want to injure Sexton in no way has that been said or intimated....

I don't think they're going out to deliberately break the laws of the game to injure him or that they are planning to do anything at all underhand or illegal. I also don't think they are going to be sending big runners down his channel for the benefit of his health, nor do I think they will be shedding any tears should he be forced off.

Players go out with the intention of putting the hurt on opposition all the time. I don't see that as a controversial statement.
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Post by westisbest Thu 08 Oct 2015, 10:20 pm

SecretFly wrote:Look, if we can beat Germany, we can beat France.  Sexton just has to pass it to Long.

Ha ha. Hopefully we can beat France and ROI beat Poland, would be a great day.

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Post by ME-109 Thu 08 Oct 2015, 10:39 pm

Notch wrote:
ME-109 wrote:Its a little bit of bad taste to suggest that the French really want to injure Sexton in no way has that been said or intimated....

I don't think they're going out to deliberately break the laws of the game to injure him or that they are planning to do anything at all underhand or illegal. I also don't think they are going to be sending big runners down his channel for the benefit of his health, nor do I think they will be shedding any tears should he be forced off.

Players go out with the intention of putting the hurt on opposition all the time. I don't see that as a controversial statement.

Meh...There is a difference between putting the hurt or testing the oppositions resolve and deliberately injuring which is what was stated...

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Post by ME-109 Thu 08 Oct 2015, 10:40 pm

westisbest wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Look, if we can beat Germany, we can beat France.  Sexton just has to pass it to Long.

Ha ha. Hopefully we can beat France and ROI beat Poland, would be a great day.


Who the f..k is ROI? Last time I checked it was Ireland I lived in....

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Post by ME-109 Thu 08 Oct 2015, 10:43 pm

Anyhow regardless word on the street is that Joe is going to put Hendo on the bench Toner to start. Earls and Zebo out completely. Luke on the bench...

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Post by SecretFly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 10:46 pm

ME-109 wrote:
westisbest wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Look, if we can beat Germany, we can beat France.  Sexton just has to pass it to Long.

Ha ha. Hopefully we can beat France and ROI beat Poland, would be a great day.


Who the f..k is ROI? Last time I checked it was Ireland I lived in....

Well two of them were playing tonight. I think we must be greedy.

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Post by RubyGuby Thu 08 Oct 2015, 10:48 pm

Now now Together Standing Tall remember you'll need it for the French resistance

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Post by ME-109 Thu 08 Oct 2015, 10:50 pm

SecretFly wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
westisbest wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Look, if we can beat Germany, we can beat France.  Sexton just has to pass it to Long.

Ha ha. Hopefully we can beat France and ROI beat Poland, would be a great day.


Who the f..k is ROI? Last time I checked it was Ireland I lived in....

Well two of them were playing tonight.  I think we must be greedy.

Nope only one. Ireland and Morphy Richards...

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Post by ME-109 Thu 08 Oct 2015, 10:53 pm

Team being touted for Sunday...

15. Rob Kearney
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Jared Payne
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Dave Kearney
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Conor Murray
1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Paul O’Connell (captain)
6. Peter O’Mahony
7. Sean O’Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip
Replacements:
16. Sean Cronin
17. Jack McGrath
18. Nathan White
19. Iain Henderson
20. Chris Henry
21. Eoin Reddan
22. Ian Madigan
23. Luke Fitzgerald

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Post by SecretFly Thu 08 Oct 2015, 10:55 pm

That's kinda the phoned-in Heavyweight team. Not a massive surprise.

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