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QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October

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Post by George Carlin Sun 11 Oct 2015, 7:08 am

First topic message reminder :

QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 2 Spring11        QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 2 Wales_13
SOUTH AFRICA v WALES

17 October 2015
16:00 BST (UTC+01)
Twickenham, London

Live on expensive telly

Ref: Wayne Barnes (England)
ARs: George Clancy (Ireland) and JP Doyle (England)
TMO: Graham Hughes (England)

A. Head to Head

30 Played 30
27 Won 2
1 Drawn 1
2 Lost 27
814 Points 440

B. Recent Form

29 November 2014
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
12–6 to Wales

21 June 2014
Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
31–30 to South Africa

14 June 2014
Growthpoint Kings Park, Durban
38–16 to South Africa

9 November 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
15–24 to South Africa

11 September 2011
Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington
17–16 to South Africa

13 November 2010
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
25–29 to South Africa

5 June 2010
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
31–34 to South Africa

8 November 2008
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
15–20 to South Africa

C. TEAMS:
SOUTH AFRICA
QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 2 Tanit_10
Le Roux; Pietersen, Kriel, De Allende, Habana; Pollard, Du Preez (capt); Mtawarira, B du Plessis, Malherbe; De Jager, Etzebeth; Burger, Louw, Vermeulen.

Replacements: Strauss for Du Plessis (55), Nyakane for Tendai Mtawarira (56), J Du Plessis for Malherbe (60), Du Toit for Etzebeth (67), Alberts for Louw (67), Lambie for Pollard (76), Serfontein for Kriel (67), Pienaar (unused).


WALES
QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 2 Cather10
Anscombe; Cuthbert, Morgan, Roberts, North; Biggar, G Davies; Jenkins, Baldwin, Lee; Charteris, AW Jones; Lydiate, Warburton (capt), Faletau.

Replacements: Owens for Baldwin (56), James for Jenkins (55), Francis for Lee (55), Davies for Charteris (63), Tipuric for Lydiate (67), L Williams for G Davies (70), Priestland for Biggar (73), Hook for Morgan (67).


Last edited by George Carlin on Sun 18 Oct 2015, 7:47 am; edited 4 times in total
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QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 2 Empty Re: QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October

Post by Rugby Fan Sun 11 Oct 2015, 11:44 pm

Shifty wrote:...I think the realistic minimum expectation is for Wales to go down fighting, a win isn't out of the question, but we've run out of bodies now.  Realistically Wales will probably lose next week, but at least we can toast the fallen and be proud of the accomplishment of this World Cup.
I know where you are coming from, and I am nothing but jealous of every team in the knockout stages now that mine is out, but that attitude drives me up the wall.

Wales always knew that the road to success in this World Cup would mean taking at least one, and probably two of the big 3 southern hemisphere scalps. Supporters surely should not be happy to come away with none, especially since this Achilles heel has been a topic of debate.

Japan beat South Africa only a few weeks ago. While success against Australia and NZ has been elusive, Wales have been victorious over the Springboks. This is a game you can win and I really hope you do. The team has suffered dreadful luck with injuries but the squad and supporters need to have more self belief and higher expectations. It isn't all right to lose next week.

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Post by blackcanelion Mon 12 Oct 2015, 12:36 am

Shifty. Only info I could find quickly:

http://drivingmaul.com/2015/01/30/class-of-2011-new-zealands-junior-world-cup-winners/

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Post by blackcanelion Mon 12 Oct 2015, 12:45 am

Should add, that apparently he's in the UK watching the world cup. Played 7's for NZ in 2012 and for Canterbury. Seem's to have dropped off the radar.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Mon 12 Oct 2015, 6:14 am

Gatland has said all along that he will only use players that were selected in the original 47 man extended squad so with regards to calling up a wing/full back the only ones left are Patchell, T James and Walker all the others have been called up.

Patchell could cover XV but I thought Anscombe had a good game and with M Morgan already in squad we don't need XV cover, both James and Walker were released due to injuries, are any of them back fit now?

If he has to go outside the squad then who are we looking at, Evans and Prydie are the ones that come to mind, possibly Jordan Williams anyone else.

Given Cuthbert has been slated for his defence then none of the options really fill me with confidence.
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Post by Gwlad Mon 12 Oct 2015, 6:38 am

Beds

Its Henson O'Clock

Simple as that.

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Post by FerN Mon 12 Oct 2015, 7:34 am

Shifty wrote:Anyone got a loading shovel?

They tried to bring the stretcher buggy on the pitch, but someone nicked it, apparently he had blond hair and it was seen going up the A470 towards Merthyr...  Sad

QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 2 1z1hfs7


Boks set for double boost
http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/boks-set-for-double-boost

Springbok lock Victor Matfield and wing JP Pietersen are likely to feature in the World Cup quarter-final against Wales, reports JON CARDINELLI in London.

JP might be a boost, Victor though, I am not so sure. Lood played really well so far.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 12 Oct 2015, 8:02 am

FerN wrote:
Shifty wrote:Anyone got a loading shovel?

They tried to bring the stretcher buggy on the pitch, but someone nicked it, apparently he had blond hair and it was seen going up the A470 towards Merthyr...  Sad

QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 2 1z1hfs7


Boks set for double boost
http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/boks-set-for-double-boost

Springbok lock Victor Matfield and wing JP Pietersen are likely to feature in the World Cup quarter-final against Wales, reports JON CARDINELLI in London.

JP might be a boost, Victor though, I am not so sure.  Lood played really well so far.



I wouldn't have thought that Meyer would change a winning side? Maybe JP comes in like you said.

We have a few more injuries to deal with, another re-shuffle...!


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Post by GavCanDance Mon 12 Oct 2015, 8:30 am

maestegmafia wrote:

Maybe a centre would be good! Ben John? 

One of the most exciting new players I've seen in a long while. I was half surprised that he wasn't in the original squad actually.

Good to hear some folks here getting behind the team, too. Yes, it was very disappointing to lose again against Australia at the weekend, but I think we've punched well above our weight already, given our injuries.

Hoping for a good match against the Boks and NO MORE INJURIES!!!

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Post by FerN Mon 12 Oct 2015, 8:39 am

maestegmafia wrote:
FerN wrote:
Shifty wrote:Anyone got a loading shovel?

They tried to bring the stretcher buggy on the pitch, but someone nicked it, apparently he had blond hair and it was seen going up the A470 towards Merthyr...  Sad

QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 2 1z1hfs7


Boks set for double boost
http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/boks-set-for-double-boost

Springbok lock Victor Matfield and wing JP Pietersen are likely to feature in the World Cup quarter-final against Wales, reports JON CARDINELLI in London.

JP might be a boost, Victor though, I am not so sure.  Lood played really well so far.



I wouldn't have thought that Meyer would change a winning side? Maybe JP comes in like you said.

We have a few more injuries to deal with, another re-shuffle...!


In Meyers mind Matfield is number 1. He also didn't want to change to the Kriel/de Allende combo which we all saw were better than the JdV/de Allende combo in the RC when JdV was injured.

Lets see.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 12 Oct 2015, 9:18 am

FerN wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
FerN wrote:
Shifty wrote:Anyone got a loading shovel?

They tried to bring the stretcher buggy on the pitch, but someone nicked it, apparently he had blond hair and it was seen going up the A470 towards Merthyr...  Sad

QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 2 1z1hfs7


Boks set for double boost
http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/boks-set-for-double-boost

Springbok lock Victor Matfield and wing JP Pietersen are likely to feature in the World Cup quarter-final against Wales, reports JON CARDINELLI in London.

JP might be a boost, Victor though, I am not so sure.  Lood played really well so far.



I wouldn't have thought that Meyer would change a winning side? Maybe JP comes in like you said.

We have a few more injuries to deal with, another re-shuffle...!


In Meyers mind Matfield is number 1.  He also didn't want to change to the Kriel/de Allende combo which we all saw were better than the JdV/de Allende combo in the RC when JdV was injured.

Lets see.

Coaches are often overly fixated with ageing players "experience factor" and it's psychological impact. Sometimes old age and aching bones take over from intelligent game.

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Post by Biltong Mon 12 Oct 2015, 9:45 am

If Meyer replaces Lood de Jager who has been one of the players of the tournament thus far he is certifiably nuts.

De Jager has made 50 tackles, the next best Bok is Louw with 39
He has made 21 carries over the gainline, only one less than Burger.
He has taken the most line outs for SA
He has stolen as many line outs as Matfield

Not even favouritism can win out here, unless of course Meyer is seriously nuts.
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Post by maestegmafia Mon 12 Oct 2015, 9:49 am

Biltong wrote:If Meyer replaces Lood de Jager who has been one of the players of the tournament thus far he is certifiably nuts.

De Jager has made 50 tackles, the next best Bok is Louw with 39
He has made 21 carries over the gainline, only one less than Burger.
He has taken the most line outs for SA
He has stolen as many line outs as Matfield

Not even favouritism can win out here, unless of course Meyer is seriously nuts.

Jees Bil

He has almost made as many tackles as we've had back line injuries...

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Post by fa0019 Mon 12 Oct 2015, 10:28 am

Matfield will get on the bench over Du Toit IMO. Jannie will return to the lineup too. I'd also prefer Kolisi on the bench as I think Alberts is not match fit and Kolisi suits Wales better from a sub perspective.

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Post by Guest Mon 12 Oct 2015, 12:05 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:In all hoensty i want a NH team to win this Rugby World Cup. But personaly if it is going to be a NH team that wins it. Then at the moment i can only it being France that does that. though would love to be proved wrong.

France, who lost to a Northern Hemisphere team yesterday. Riiiigghhhtt.

Look Madge, you do yourself no favours. Incorrect on Biggar's missed kicks. Incorrect on the Group of Death looking less deadly (which you said after Webb and Halfpenny were injured) and now trying to banter (I guess you can call it that?) supporters of a team that went further than your team in their own World Cup.

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Post by Guest Mon 12 Oct 2015, 12:13 pm

Tyler Morgan did little wrong v Fiji and should be brought back into the team. I would sooner play anybody on the wing over Cuthbert. It was a joke that he was allowed to try and find some form in the World Cup anyway, but if it continues into the 1/4s then that's unforgivable. Yes I would rather Matthew Morgan or Lloyd Williams play there.

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Post by majesticimperialman Mon 12 Oct 2015, 1:16 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:In all hoensty i want a NH team to win this Rugby World Cup. But personaly if it is going to be a NH team that wins it. Then at the moment i can only it being France that does that. though would love to be proved wrong.

France, who lost to a Northern Hemisphere team yesterday. Riiiigghhhtt.

Look Madge, you do yourself no favours. Incorrect on Biggar's missed kicks. Incorrect on the Group of Death looking less deadly (which you said after Webb and Halfpenny were injured) and now trying to banter (I guess you can call it that?) supporters of a team that went further than your team in their own World Cup.

Risca Rev

When i said that i thought France would win this RWC, they had not played Ireland and the way Ireland was playing be fore that game gave no sign of what was to come yesterday.

Yes i did think Wales would be screwed with out Halfpenny, and i have been proved wrong.

Still how did Wales spend so much time in Australia half when Australia was down to 13 men and "NOT SCORE" any points at all?

I am glad for you that Wales are still in the RWC, lets see how you can go.

Why don't Wales prove once and for all that they are (WORLD CLASS) Players by winning the Rugby World Cup?

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Post by TightHEAD Mon 12 Oct 2015, 1:23 pm

Cuthbert's English so maybe that's why he is Poopie during the RWC?
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Post by fa0019 Mon 12 Oct 2015, 1:26 pm

Too much to ask for Wales IMO.

What has become obvious now is that winning a world cup is not simply turning up with 15 good players all on form come the tournament.

Seeding is so important, it is just as important for the big teams to almost guarantee a SF spot without any major hurdles then the above.

Then there are squad strength, having 30 players you would be comfortable playing in any game, any opposition.

I don't doubt Wales have a side who can win big games but the journey is too great for me the moment. The big players lost makes a big diff, the replacements and crucially the replacements replacements (i.e. who gets on the bench) I don't think have the calibre to beat SA and then NZ.

I can't see the boks losing this one... I can and I can't. I'd be very surprised put it that way if they lose this match. Maybe bias, probably biased... but they all of a sudden look good.

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Post by Biltong Mon 12 Oct 2015, 1:34 pm

fa0019 wrote:Too much to ask for Wales IMO.

What has become obvious now is that winning a world cup is not simply turning up with 15 good players all on form come the tournament.

Seeding is so important, it is just as important for the big teams to almost guarantee a SF spot without any major hurdles then the above.

Then there are squad strength, having 30 players you would be comfortable playing in any game, any opposition.

I don't doubt Wales have a side who can win big games but the journey is too great for me the moment. The big players lost makes a big diff, the replacements and crucially the replacements replacements (i.e. who gets on the bench) I don't think have the calibre to beat SA and then NZ.

I can't see the boks losing this one... I can and I can't. I'd be very surprised put it that way if they lose this match. Maybe bias, probably biased... but they all of a sudden look good.

FA, the problem with the Springboks and Meyer is that they can either come out and play like men posessed, now we know those Boks, nobody can stop them when they play like that, not even New Zealand.

But we all know they don't play like that for 80 minutes and we all know Meyer has favourites that affect the mood in the camp and therefor the motivation of the players, and we all know how inconsistent the Boks have been in the last year.

I can see two distinct results here, one where we truly are playing as one team, motivated and blow Wales to pieces.

The other results I can see is where Meyer's selections undermines the beleif of the team and we see yet another underdone performance.

Which one do you see, because f..k knows I have no idea.
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Post by fa0019 Mon 12 Oct 2015, 1:39 pm

If you don't win the title, all you can hope for is to go out fighting. With De Villiers and Matfield sidelined its given Meyer an opportunity to actually play a side he would normally be too fearful to field.

I think he'll play Jannie mind. He won't field Malherbe as much as I'd like him to. Common sense will prevail. Du Toit off the bench as well with Kolisi coming in for Alberts.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:12 pm

fa0019 wrote:Too much to ask for Wales IMO.

How come? SA lost to Japan in the first round from coming in off the back of what was possibly their worst showing in the rugby championship. Are they that good? I don't think so.

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Post by majesticimperialman Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:19 pm

Are they that good? I don't think so.

Probably not.

But i do think/ believe that if they was facing a team that was down to 13 players, they would of found a way to score (SOME) points. especialy being camped on their oponents goal line for 8 minutes or so.

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Post by fa0019 Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:24 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Too much to ask for Wales IMO.

How come? SA lost to Japan in the first round from coming in off the back of what was possibly their worst showing in the rugby championship. Are they that good? I don't think so.

It was a retort to Wales winning the trophy not whether or not they could win the game on Saturday. If you read the post that becomes quite clear.

Can they beat SA, yes. Will they, I don't think they will, no. SA had a bad spate of form over the summer. It continued over to the first game vs. Japan but they were pretty clincal vs. Scotland and Samoa and blasted the USA off the park in a training match. All of a sudden they had all their players fit, are playing well and worst of all... the boks have their arrogance back.

Wales are missing so many players and whilst they have done very well to get out the group from that perspective (i.e. half a dozen first teamers out) I think its improbable that they will.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:27 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Are they that good? I don't think so.

Probably not.

But i do think/ believe that if they was facing a team that was down to 13 players, they would of found a way to score (SOME) points. especialy being camped on their oponents goal  line for 8 minutes or so.

True enough. But I guess you got to be "in it to win it." England are out of the World Cup, so not much point in you spectating or commenting.

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Post by maestegmafia Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:28 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Are they that good? I don't think so.

Probably not.

But i do think/ believe that if they was facing a team that was down to 13 players, they would of found a way to score (SOME) points. especialy being camped on their oponents goal  line for 8 minutes or so.
It's tough at the top

Last year Wales held out Ireland for what seemed like an eternity to get a win over then.

To be fair to Wales, they did cross the line three times in eight minutes only for the player to have been held up.

The pressure Wales put on Australia, probably the best team in the competition so far, is very complimentary to Wales. They played as brilliantly as the Wallabies and have been well congratulated for it. That is without considering that they playing a first team Wallaby xv and were missing three first choice backs, and four replacement backs before the game even started.

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Post by majesticimperialman Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:32 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Are they that good? I don't think so.

Probably not.

But i do think/ believe that if they was facing a team that was down to 13 players, they would of found a way to score (SOME) points. especialy being camped on their oponents goal  line for 8 minutes or so.

True enough. But I guess you got to be "in it to win it." England are out of the World Cup, so not much point in you spectating or commenting.

True England are out. That does not mean that i will stop watching the game or commenting on the game.

So mikey if Wales lose this week end. Will you stop spectating or commenting?

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Post by Biltong Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:35 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Too much to ask for Wales IMO.

How come? SA lost to Japan in the first round from coming in off the back of what was possibly their worst showing in the rugby championship. Are they that good? I don't think so.


Given the coach puts the right team on the pitch with the right captain they are a hell of a lot better than what yoou think.
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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:35 pm

fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Too much to ask for Wales IMO.

How come? SA lost to Japan in the first round from coming in off the back of what was possibly their worst showing in the rugby championship. Are they that good? I don't think so.

It was a retort to Wales winning the trophy not whether or not they could win the game on Saturday. If you read the post that becomes quite clear.

Can they beat SA, yes. Will they, I don't think they will, no. SA had a bad spate of form over the summer. It continued over to the first game vs. Japan but they were pretty clincal vs. Scotland and Samoa and blasted the USA off the park in a training match. All of a sudden they had all their players fit, are playing well and worst of all... the boks have their arrogance back.

Wales are missing so many players and whilst they have done very well to get out the group from that perspective (i.e. half a dozen first teamers out) I think its improbable that they will.

Nobody asked that question so how is it clear? But with all the injuries and lack of try scoring I also sincerely doubt we could go all the way given the opposition is Aus, SA and then potentially NZ - assuming we get past the Bokke.

Can we be realistic. Scotland, Samoa, USA and despite their monumental improvement Japan are not good teams. Compared to Wales' opposition before and during the World Cup; this includes wins against Ireland and England away from home. We were outsmarted against Aus, but I don't think SA are as smart. Needless to say we will need to be in top form to get a win. We have the pack we just need to be more clinical and execute a lot better than previously.

I suspect a lot will come down to ref interpretations this weekend. Unfortunately ref's at this tournament have been far from great.


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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:38 pm

Biltong wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Too much to ask for Wales IMO.

How come? SA lost to Japan in the first round from coming in off the back of what was possibly their worst showing in the rugby championship. Are they that good? I don't think so.


Given the coach puts the right team on the pitch with the right captain they are a hell of a lot better than what yoou think.

I think SA are good. Everyone else in Wales seems to think they're absolutely amazing - least that's the impression I get. Would you agree with me that they're not?

Despite their early form, injuries and loss to Japan I said SA would still top the group. So surely that goes to show I do think they're a good outfit.

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Post by fa0019 Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:39 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Too much to ask for Wales IMO.

How come? SA lost to Japan in the first round from coming in off the back of what was possibly their worst showing in the rugby championship. Are they that good? I don't think so.

It was a retort to Wales winning the trophy not whether or not they could win the game on Saturday. If you read the post that becomes quite clear.

Can they beat SA, yes. Will they, I don't think they will, no. SA had a bad spate of form over the summer. It continued over to the first game vs. Japan but they were pretty clincal vs. Scotland and Samoa and blasted the USA off the park in a training match. All of a sudden they had all their players fit, are playing well and worst of all... the boks have their arrogance back.

Wales are missing so many players and whilst they have done very well to get out the group from that perspective (i.e. half a dozen first teamers out) I think its improbable that they will.

Nobody asked that question so how is it clear? But with all the injuries and lack of try scoring I also sincerely doubt we could go all the way given the opposition is Aus, SA and then potentially NZ - assuming we get past the Bokke.

Can we be realistic. Scotland, Samoa, USA and despite their monumental improvement Japan are not good teams. Compared to Wales' opposition before and during the World Cup; this includes wins against Ireland and England away from home. We were outsmarted aha isn't Aus, but I don't think SA are as smart. Needless to say we will need to be in top form to get a win. We have the pack we just need to be more clinical and execute a lot better than previously.

I suspect a lot will come down to ref interpretations this weekend. Unfortunately ref's at this tournament have been far from great.

2 posts up from the one you replied on... 2.16

Why don't Wales prove once and for all that they are (WORLD CLASS) Players by winning the Rugby World Cup?

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:41 pm

Oh right, you were replying to an imbecile post. Well that explains it then...

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Post by fa0019 Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:43 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Too much to ask for Wales IMO.

How come? SA lost to Japan in the first round from coming in off the back of what was possibly their worst showing in the rugby championship. Are they that good? I don't think so.

It was a retort to Wales winning the trophy not whether or not they could win the game on Saturday. If you read the post that becomes quite clear.

Can they beat SA, yes. Will they, I don't think they will, no. SA had a bad spate of form over the summer. It continued over to the first game vs. Japan but they were pretty clincal vs. Scotland and Samoa and blasted the USA off the park in a training match. All of a sudden they had all their players fit, are playing well and worst of all... the boks have their arrogance back.

Wales are missing so many players and whilst they have done very well to get out the group from that perspective (i.e. half a dozen first teamers out) I think its improbable that they will.

Nobody asked that question so how is it clear? But with all the injuries and lack of try scoring I also sincerely doubt we could go all the way given the opposition is Aus, SA and then potentially NZ - assuming we get past the Bokke.

Can we be realistic. Scotland, Samoa, USA and despite their monumental improvement Japan are not good teams. Compared to Wales' opposition before and during the World Cup; this includes wins against Ireland and England away from home. We were outsmarted aha isn't Aus, but I don't think SA are as smart. Needless to say we will need to be in top form to get a win. We have the pack we just need to be more clinical and execute a lot better than previously.

I suspect a lot will come down to ref interpretations this weekend. Unfortunately ref's at this tournament have been far from great.

Scotland have been a decent side at this world cup. SA beaten them by 30 and that score flattered Scotland. They beat Samoa by 40 points, USA by 60.
These last 3 games on the trot suggest they are firing again. Beating those sides doesn't make you world class, but beating them by the above margins suggest they are back on form.

A on form and full compliment bok side is exceptionally dangerous and would be favoured IMO against any side bar NZ. Just my opinion mind....

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Post by majesticimperialman Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:44 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Oh right, you were replying to an imbecile post. Well that explains it then...

You trying to turn this in to a personal insult now then?

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:44 pm

Considering half of the Welsh team left Twickers in an ambulance when they played England I shudder to think how they will cope with the physicality of South Africa.

I'll be cheering for Wales until my throat is hoarse but this match could be horrible to watch.

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Post by lostinwales Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:44 pm

And if Wales lose all they will have achieved is a decent 10 minutes against an England side that had gone into mental meltdown. and a very long injury list.

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Post by majesticimperialman Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:48 pm

And if Wales do lose they will have proved like England that they are just not good enough to win a Rugby World Cup.

Host nation or not.

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Post by Biltong Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:48 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Biltong wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Too much to ask for Wales IMO.

How come? SA lost to Japan in the first round from coming in off the back of what was possibly their worst showing in the rugby championship. Are they that good? I don't think so.


Given the coach puts the right team on the pitch with the right captain they are a hell of a lot better than what yoou think.

I think SA are  good. Everyone else in Wales seems to think they're absolutely amazing - least that's the impression I get. Would you agree with me that they're not?

Despite their early form, injuries and loss to Japan I said SA would still top the group. So surely that goes to show I do think they're a good outfit.

We have issues, the question isn't is Sa any good, the question is will the real Springboks be selected or Meyer's favourites?
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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:51 pm

fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Too much to ask for Wales IMO.

How come? SA lost to Japan in the first round from coming in off the back of what was possibly their worst showing in the rugby championship. Are they that good? I don't think so.

It was a retort to Wales winning the trophy not whether or not they could win the game on Saturday. If you read the post that becomes quite clear.

Can they beat SA, yes. Will they, I don't think they will, no. SA had a bad spate of form over the summer. It continued over to the first game vs. Japan but they were pretty clincal vs. Scotland and Samoa and blasted the USA off the park in a training match. All of a sudden they had all their players fit, are playing well and worst of all... the boks have their arrogance back.

Wales are missing so many players and whilst they have done very well to get out the group from that perspective (i.e. half a dozen first teamers out) I think its improbable that they will.

Nobody asked that question so how is it clear? But with all the injuries and lack of try scoring I also sincerely doubt we could go all the way given the opposition is Aus, SA and then potentially NZ - assuming we get past the Bokke.

Can we be realistic. Scotland, Samoa, USA and despite their monumental improvement Japan are not good teams. Compared to Wales' opposition before and during the World Cup; this includes wins against Ireland and England away from home. We were outsmarted aha isn't Aus, but I don't think SA are as smart. Needless to say we will need to be in top form to get a win. We have the pack we just need to be more clinical and execute a lot better than previously.

I suspect a lot will come down to ref interpretations this weekend. Unfortunately ref's at this tournament have been far from great.

Scotland have been a decent side at this world cup. SA beaten them by 30 and that score flattered Scotland. They beat Samoa by 40 points, USA by 60.
These last 3 games on the trot suggest they are firing again. Beating those sides doesn't make you world class, but beating them by the above margins suggest they are back on form.

A on form and full compliment bok side is exceptionally dangerous and would be favoured IMO against any side bar NZ. Just my opinion mind....

Scotland have looked decent in part against teams near them in the rankings. I think they look a bit better than their 6 nations form but haven't turned a corner just yet. I think SA were just punishing minnows, all top teams do it. Good wins no doubt, but if it was any other team in SA's position you wouldn't be talking them up.

Agree with you but I think they're far from it, unless proven otherwise on the weekend...


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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:51 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Can we be realistic. Scotland, Samoa, USA and despite their monumental improvement Japan are not good teams.

Scotland and Japan are good teams.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:54 pm

Biltong wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Biltong wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Too much to ask for Wales IMO.

How come? SA lost to Japan in the first round from coming in off the back of what was possibly their worst showing in the rugby championship. Are they that good? I don't think so.


Given the coach puts the right team on the pitch with the right captain they are a hell of a lot better than what yoou think.

I think SA are  good. Everyone else in Wales seems to think they're absolutely amazing - least that's the impression I get. Would you agree with me that they're not?

Despite their early form, injuries and loss to Japan I said SA would still top the group. So surely that goes to show I do think they're a good outfit.

We have issues, the question isn't is Sa any good, the question is will the real Springboks be selected or Meyer's favourites?

If South Africa played like they did in the other 3 games of the group aside from Japan I can see no other result other than a Bok win.

Your entire pack outclasses Wales in every position IMO.

The South Africa tight 5 are solid.

De Jager and Eztabeth have been outstanding.

Vermuelan has been possibly one of the best backrowers in the tournament.

Habana is in outstanding form.

I want Wales to win but I can't see it.
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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:55 pm

Biltong wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Biltong wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Too much to ask for Wales IMO.

How come? SA lost to Japan in the first round from coming in off the back of what was possibly their worst showing in the rugby championship. Are they that good? I don't think so.


Given the coach puts the right team on the pitch with the right captain they are a hell of a lot better than what yoou think.

I think SA are  good. Everyone else in Wales seems to think they're absolutely amazing - least that's the impression I get. Would you agree with me that they're not?

Despite their early form, injuries and loss to Japan I said SA would still top the group. So surely that goes to show I do think they're a good outfit.

We have issues, the question isn't is Sa any good, the question is will the real Springboks be selected or Meyer's favourites?

I would imagine it's the team that beat USA. I'd actually be more concerned if Matfield starts. Despite the form of De Jäger I can picture Matfield being the one to tear our line out apart thus nullifying our driving line out.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:58 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Can we be realistic. Scotland, Samoa, USA and despite their monumental improvement Japan are not good teams.

Scotland and Japan are good teams.

Both teams were on a losing streak before the World Cup, when they were playing tier 1 opposition. So I'd have to disagree.

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Post by RubyGuby Mon 12 Oct 2015, 2:59 pm

lostinwales wrote:And if Wales lose all they will have achieved is a decent 10 minutes against an England side that had gone into mental meltdown. and a very long injury list.

Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo Nice to see your true colours back on here LIW - I was beginning to worry you'd been taking those sanity pills. Enjoy the rugby over the next week - Go Bokke!!!!

thumbsup


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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 12 Oct 2015, 3:00 pm

lostinwales wrote:And if Wales lose all they will have achieved is a decent 10 minutes against an England side that had gone into mental meltdown. and a very long injury list.

You're a bit Wales-obsessed aren't you? I'd be pleased if they tried as best they could. And if we lose we'll go away with nothing but can hark back to helping England make history - always good for the lols. Say no more!

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Post by fa0019 Mon 12 Oct 2015, 3:03 pm

Difficult game though

Tipuric vs. Lydiate.

Sort of need Lydiate on one hand but Tipuric gives Wales an edge where SA can be exploited.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 12 Oct 2015, 3:06 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Can we be realistic. Scotland, Samoa, USA and despite their monumental improvement Japan are not good teams.

Scotland and Japan are good teams.

Both teams were on a losing streak before the World Cup, when they were playing tier 1 opposition. So I'd have to disagree.

It doesn't surprise me that you disagree. But Scotland almost beat France in Paris not long ago and we all know Japan beat South Africa, so it's strange to say neither is a good side.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 12 Oct 2015, 3:07 pm

I'm not so sure. SA's back row are big and good enough to smash Tips off the breakdown. If anything, I'd start Lydiate, Tips and Warburton.

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Post by fa0019 Mon 12 Oct 2015, 3:13 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:I'm not so sure. SA's back row are big and good enough to smash Tips off the breakdown. If anything, I'd start Lydiate, Tips and Warburton.

The boks struggle sometimes vs. teams that can dominate rucks via pace and ambush.. sometimes the boks get too arrogant and run in too deep into enemy territory. Thats how ARG beat them earlier this year, how Japan beat them and why AUS always seem to have the upper hand vs. them.

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Post by Steffan Mon 12 Oct 2015, 4:01 pm

I think it will be a partisan crowd against Wales as well

You will have all the Saffers there plus the English supporters who got corporate tickets in advance or some who bought them thinking England would be there cheering against Wales

We can handle that though Wales

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Post by fa0019 Mon 12 Oct 2015, 4:07 pm

Steffan wrote:I think it will be a partisan crowd against Wales as well

You will have all the Saffers there plus the English supporters who got corporate tickets in advance or some who bought them thinking England would be there cheering against Wales

We can handle that though Wales

Because the springboks are the darlings of world rugby and everyone loves them right????

I know people like to engineer siege mentalities but trying to think a bok team will get anything but support beyond a bokke is having a laugh.

After England the boks are easily the most hated team in world rugby... albeit quite a few notches down from England.

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