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QF4: Australia v Scotland, 18 October

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QF4: Australia v Scotland, 18 October - Page 17 Empty QF4: Australia v Scotland, 18 October

Post by George Carlin Sun 11 Oct 2015, 7:26 am

First topic message reminder :

QF4: Australia v Scotland, 18 October - Page 17 Wallab10     QF4: Australia v Scotland, 18 October - Page 17 Scot_f10 
AUSTRALIA v SCOTLAND

18 October 2015
16:00 BST (UTC+01)
Twickenham, London

Live on telly

Ref: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
ARs: Glen Jackson (New Zealand) and Pascal Gauzere (France)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

A. Head to Head

28 Played 28
19 Won 9
0 Drawn 0
9 Lost 19
671 Points 330

B. Recent Form

23 November 2013
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
15 – 21 to Australia

5 June 2012
Hunter Stadium, Newcastle
6 – 9 to Scotland

21 November 2009
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
9 – 8 to Scotland

25 November 2006
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
15 – 44 to Australia

20 November 2004
Hampden Park, Glasgow
17 – 31 to Australia

C. TEAMS:
AUSTRALIA
QF4: Australia v Scotland, 18 October - Page 17 Geoffr10
15 Kurtley Beale; 14 Adam Ashley-Cooper, 13 Tevita Kuridrani, 12 Matt Giteau, 11 Drew Mitchell; 10 Bernard Foley, 9 Will Genia;

1 Scott Sio, 2Stephen Moore, 3 Sekope Kepu, 4 Kane Douglas, 5 Rob Simmons, 6 Scott Fardy, 7 Michael Hooper, 8 Ben McCalman.

Substitutes: 16 Tatafu Polota-Nau, 17 James Slipper, 18 Greg Holmes, 19 Dean Mumm, 20 Sean McMahon, 21 Nick Phipps, 22 Matt Toomua, 23 Quade Cooper.

SCOTLAND
QF4: Australia v Scotland, 18 October - Page 17 Tucker10
15 Stuart Hogg; 14 Sean Maitland, 13 Mark Bennett, 12 Peter Horne 11 Tommy Seymour; 10 Finn Russell,  9 Greig Laidlaw;

1 Alasdair Dickinson, 2 Ross Ford, 3 Willem Nel, 4 Jonny Gray, 5 Richie Gray, 6 Blair Cowan, 7 John Hardie, 8 David Denton. 


Substitutes: 
16 Fraser Brown, 17 Gordon Reid, 18 Jon Welsh, 19 Tim Swinson, 20 Josh Strauss, 21 Henry Pyrgos, 22 Richie Vernon, 23 Sean Lamont.


Last edited by George Carlin on Sun 18 Oct 2015, 3:05 pm; edited 6 times in total
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QF4: Australia v Scotland, 18 October - Page 17 Empty Re: QF4: Australia v Scotland, 18 October

Post by eirebilly Sun 18 Oct 2015, 7:27 pm

Notch wrote:I can see that the mindless persecution of Joubert is going to be as bad as what Alain Rolland got in 2011.

Mindless? Just how arrogant can you be?

Joubert made a wrong decision that pretty much cost the Scottish a place in the semi finals of a RWC, of course that decision is going to be discussed.
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Post by TJ Sun 18 Oct 2015, 7:27 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Incidentally, I don't think criticising those key decisions in the match thread demeans anyone.

.

discussing the calls is fine - all refs make mistakes and in all matches there are 50/50 calls which could go either way.  Its calling refs biased, saying they cost us the match etc that demeans us all.  Two 50 / 50 calls in the match  Accidental knock on going for an intercept or deliberate knock on and accidental or deliberate offside at the end.  and one possible missed late hit

However as many off us have said its not what cost us the match.  what cost us the match was two poor lineouts, 3 botched restarts and poor maul defense

Enough - I'm off to look at the stats

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Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sun 18 Oct 2015, 7:28 pm

Jeezus man ! You are critisiisng a mod. Feckin scary !
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Post by tigertattie Sun 18 Oct 2015, 7:30 pm

I'm saying absolutely nothing wrong with the Oz team. To me, they weren't constantly offending, putting in high tackles, killing the ball.

The Oz players are not the cause of this

Joubert was the defining factor in the outcome of this game.

World rugby need to look at this. There was such hype about this World Cup being used to open rugby to the masses. What new follower is going to bother with a sport where regardless of how well you play, if you don't get the decisions from the ref, you're not going to win!!!
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Post by TJ Sun 18 Oct 2015, 7:30 pm

Feck the mods - I'm a rocker! Wink

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Post by EWT Spoons Sun 18 Oct 2015, 7:34 pm

tigertattie wrote:I'm saying absolutely nothing wrong with the Oz team. To me, they weren't constantly offending, putting in high tackles, killing the ball.

The Oz players are not the cause of this

Joubert was the defining factor in the outcome of this game.

World rugby need to look at this. There was such hype about this World Cup being used to open rugby to the masses. What new follower is going to bother with a sport where regardless of how well you play, if you don't get the decisions from the ref, you're not going to win!!!

Think our mistakes at the line out and restarts were the deciding factor, think you're giving Joubert too much credit.

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Post by tigertattie Sun 18 Oct 2015, 7:39 pm

Oh our restarts are horrendous but in my opinion, Joubert cost us 17 out of the 35 points that Australia scored
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Post by TJ Sun 18 Oct 2015, 7:43 pm

Stats - wow - I thought the game fairly even - not in the stats its not.

Denton our top carrier, Our outside backs saw almost no ball.  18 tackles non missed for ickle Jonny

Positives to take from this game and this WC

Ickle Jonny is as good as we thought he was.  When he grows up he will be world class

Russell is not immune to pressure and seems to have the scottish 10 brainfart gene but he also has a bit of magic about him

Dentons found some form - today he even beat a couple of guys.  Back Row looks really good with the luxury of being able to pick horses for courses.  

Furra Linee took his chance at 12 really well, Bennett is damn good.  Hogg is a snarling wee brat but a damn fine player.

Hardie looks a good find and you know what - he has really taken a gamble and put his entire career on the line for us.

Laidlaw is back to his best.  Ok he will never make a world 15 but his passing is spot on and he even made a few good runs and tackles fearlessly

Scott looked woefully out of form but he will be back bvut we have back ups that are good

I just wish the WC was next year - we might be ready then.  This is a very young team with a lot of very inexperienced players but today we pushed one of the top teams in the world to the wire.  We will only get better.  Bring on the 6N.

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Post by TJ Sun 18 Oct 2015, 7:50 pm

Oh - and after a decade we seem to have found the right coach for us. He plays the tactics to suit the players and the game - he doesn't try to make them do stuff they don't believe in. He is gaining confidence in the players and they are in him. The futures bright

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Post by cakeordeath Sun 18 Oct 2015, 7:56 pm

TJ wrote:Oh - and after a decade we seem to have found the right coach for us.  He plays the tactics to suit the players and the game - he doesn't try to make them do stuff they don't believe in.  He is gaining confidence in the players and they are in him.  The futures bright

Despite the defeat Scottish Rugby is in a much better place. Not only do we have BVC, but he is bringing in his own staff, we will shortly have a new attack coach, and hopefully we can get shot of Humphries and get Waka in charge. Give our pack an edge.

On a final note WP Nel is my hero.

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Post by cakeordeath Sun 18 Oct 2015, 7:57 pm

Oh yeah, and ffs SRU please give Hardie a contract

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Post by TJ Sun 18 Oct 2015, 7:58 pm

I forgot to mention Nel - he has had a great tournament. Looks like a proper prop, scrums like one and is also good in the loose.

I'm most dissapointed in Russell I think. couple of brainfarts and not much of the great vision.

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Post by mckay1402 Sun 18 Oct 2015, 8:08 pm

Scotland kind of remind me of Wales 2004. Just about to make a breakthrough
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Post by InjuredYetAgain Sun 18 Oct 2015, 8:23 pm

Proud of what the guys did but unbelievably disappointed that we are out. Being critical of the ref isn't going to help as we caused our own downfall - how many restarts did we lose, was it right to throw long in the slashing rain at the death etc?
The future looks good. I suspect Ford may retire from internationals now and hope that Dickinson doesn't follow suit. Hooker is ok but LH is a problem as Reid isn't nearly as good as Dicko. Rory Sutherland maybe?
And I think that Laidlaw must now be exempt from criticism for the whole of the 6N - he showed real skills and leadership over the last two games

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Sun 18 Oct 2015, 8:24 pm

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Proud of what the guys did but unbelievably disappointed that we are out. Being critical of the ref isn't going to help as we caused our own downfall - how many restarts did we lose, was it right to throw long in the slashing rain at the death etc?
The future looks good. I suspect Ford may retire from internationals now and hope that Dickinson doesn't follow suit. Hooker is ok but LH is a problem as Reid isn't nearly as good as Dicko. Rory Sutherland maybe?
And I think that Laidlaw must now be exempt from criticism for the whole of the 6N - he showed real skills and leadership over the last two games

He looked so angry in the post match interview. Full credit for not losing his excrement
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Post by RDW Sun 18 Oct 2015, 8:26 pm

Laidlaw's interview was brillisnt - exactly what the fans wanted to see.

VC looked absolutely broken.

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Post by allyt2k Sun 18 Oct 2015, 8:29 pm

cakeordeath wrote:Oh yeah, and ffs SRU please give Hardie a contract

Think Edinburgh have given him a contract

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Post by cakeordeath Sun 18 Oct 2015, 8:31 pm

allyt2k wrote:
cakeordeath wrote:Oh yeah, and ffs SRU please give Hardie a contract

Think Edinburgh have given him a contract

Don't think so, but I wish that was true

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Post by TJ Sun 18 Oct 2015, 8:39 pm

Edinburgh will tho I bet. He has basically said he wants to live in Edinburgh

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Post by The Great Aukster Sun 18 Oct 2015, 8:45 pm

Well done Scotland, great game - you deserved to win. The other three games were won by the better team - but they didn't have Craig Joubert on the whistle.

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sun 18 Oct 2015, 8:48 pm

Thought Laidlaw was very good, I've said some negative things about him in the past but he really stepped up and made a lot of us look silly. Well done sir.

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Post by allyt2k Sun 18 Oct 2015, 8:48 pm

News in today's @SundayTimesScot: SRU confident of concluding the signing of John Hardie for @EdinburghRugby very shortly

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Post by cakeordeath Sun 18 Oct 2015, 8:50 pm

allyt2k wrote:News in today's @SundayTimesScot: SRU confident of concluding the signing of John Hardie for @EdinburghRugby very shortly

Yahoo

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Sun 18 Oct 2015, 8:50 pm

Last thought - we need to clone someone with the strength of Big Jim Hamilton but the discipline and mobility of one of the Gray boys. We were man-abused at the rolling maul again and don't decide quickly enough how many guys to put in to stop it.
The positives from today far outweigh the negatives, though

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Sun 18 Oct 2015, 8:59 pm

allyt2k wrote:News in today's @SundayTimesScot: SRU confident of concluding the signing of John Hardie for @EdinburghRugby very shortly

Shee-hit. Watson, Grant and Hardie all going for the number 7 jersey? Looking forward to it already.
Denton at 8 and CDP at 6 makes an impressive backrow

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Post by cakeordeath Sun 18 Oct 2015, 9:03 pm

InjuredYetAgain wrote:
allyt2k wrote:News in today's @SundayTimesScot: SRU confident of concluding the signing of John Hardie for @EdinburghRugby very shortly

Shee-hit.  Watson, Grant and Hardie all going for the number 7 jersey? Looking forward to it already.
Denton at 8 and CDP at 6 makes an impressive backrow

Look how about this, we will give you Holmes, Wilson, and Hart back. We get Hardie

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Post by funnyExiledScot Sun 18 Oct 2015, 9:04 pm

Extremely proud of the Scotland team this evening. To a man I thought they fronted up and played some great rugby. Let's not kid ourselves, this was a vastly superior Australia side and we took them to virtually the last kick of the game.

Special mentions go to Nel, both Gray's, Denton, Laidlaw and Bennett. I thought they were particularly awesome.

As for Joubert and THAT decision, I'll say this. In real time I thought he was correct. He was right next to it, felt he had a clear view and made the call. The studio was divided and had the benefit of multiple slow motion replays. I've seen it about 20 times and I'm not 100 per cent. I think a TMO would probably have given accidental offside and a scrum, but we'll never know.

We should never have been in that position. Once again we botched a key restart, then made a completely daft lineout call under pressure.

Still, I don't want to be negative. I thought we were great today.

Final word: awesome news re: Hardie.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Sun 18 Oct 2015, 9:11 pm

Didn't mind the decision to give the last penalty TBH. For me the big mistake was the late (and possibly with the shoulder) challenge by Hooper on Hogg. Clearly late, and you can see Hooper changing his line to make sure he runs straight into him. Surely the TMO could/should have intervened on that, given how quick he was to butt in on the Maitland knock-on (for what it's worth that was a very harsh yellow IMO). If that's given as a penalty Scotland clear their lines and can play the remainder in Aus territory. Poor, poor decision IMO.

Really really feel for Scotland, put in a terrific performance.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sun 18 Oct 2015, 9:17 pm

I was really gutted for Scotland today. I thought they had won the game at one point, but just when you thought Scotland had won they like Wales gave away a penalty and Australi nailed it.

Well played Australia.

But very, very, hard luck to Scotland, out of all the NH teams in this world cup, you of all deserved to go through to the Semi Final. clap clap clap

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Post by RDW Sun 18 Oct 2015, 9:22 pm

A couple of real brainfarts from Scotland in the last 2 minutes:

Why throw to the back of the lineout after a complicated move? Richie Gray is 6ft 9 - chuck him up at the front to secure any kind of ball.

Why kick long from the resulting kick off?? We never had a chance of reclaiming it, and all they had to do was hold onto it and kick it out. Russell showed real inexperience there - it had to go high and short with the entire pack plus Maitland doing all they could to reclaim it.

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Post by des Sun 18 Oct 2015, 9:30 pm

If Hardie comes to Edinburgh I'd like to see Watson at 12/13. Our backrow is looking far too good and Watson should be on the pitch at all costs.

I'd also like to see Capricorn 20Hz as out runout tune.

I'm confident one of these things will happen in the next 7 months.

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Post by allyt2k Sun 18 Oct 2015, 9:36 pm

des wrote:If Hardie comes to Edinburgh I'd like to see Watson at 12/13. Our backrow is looking far too good and Watson should be on the pitch at all costs.

I'd also like to see Capricorn 20Hz as out runout tune.

I'm confident one of these things will happen in the next 7 months.

I would imagine either Coman or Grant or both would be out at the end of the season

nice tune

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Post by tigertattie Sun 18 Oct 2015, 9:41 pm

Grant only stayed as World Cup cover. He's pretty much semi retired. He'll hang about for the 6ns now but that'll be him
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Post by InjuredYetAgain Sun 18 Oct 2015, 9:52 pm

What? How old is Roddy Grant? I thought he was early 30s and therefore too young for retiring (unless he is held together with sticky tape between games)

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Post by des Sun 18 Oct 2015, 9:58 pm

allyt2k wrote:
I would imagine either Coman or Grant or both would be out at the end of the season

nice tune
I'd like all three of Grant, Watson and Hardie on the pitch at once. Unimaginable chaos.

I think 20 Hz is perfect for us. Sounds like the sort of tune you'd want to hear if you had fake armour print on you strip and lived in a city with a famous castle.

Anyway, back on subject. We will not be dark horses next February. Can't wait.

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Post by RDW Sun 18 Oct 2015, 10:10 pm

David Denton:

"I met my family and girlfriend afterwards and you could have filled a bathtub with all our tears.

... this has affected the rest of our lives and it’s affected a nation."

Sad

David Denton - born in Zimbabwe, raised in South Africa, couldn't have given any more for Scotland.

clap

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Post by Heaf Sun 18 Oct 2015, 10:22 pm

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Notch wrote:I can see that the mindless persecution of Joubert is going to be as bad as what Alain Rolland got in 2011.


He should have sent it to the TMO. He made a mistake.

This has already been covered here in some details, he couldn't refer it to the TMO

So why was the TMO allowed to intervene in the decision re Maitland?

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Post by Guest Sun 18 Oct 2015, 10:23 pm

Heaf wrote:
Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Notch wrote:I can see that the mindless persecution of Joubert is going to be as bad as what Alain Rolland got in 2011.


He should have sent it to the TMO. He made a mistake.

This has already been covered here in some details, he couldn't refer it to the TMO

So why was the TMO allowed to intervene in the decision re Maitland?

Foul play.

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Post by Heaf Sun 18 Oct 2015, 10:34 pm

foul play in what sense?

what's the difference in looking at whether a knock-on was deliberate or whether an offside was deliberate?

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Post by R!skysports Sun 18 Oct 2015, 10:37 pm

Griff wrote:
Heaf wrote:
Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Notch wrote:I can see that the mindless persecution of Joubert is going to be as bad as what Alain Rolland got in 2011.


He should have sent it to the TMO. He made a mistake.

This has already been covered here in some details, he couldn't refer it to the TMO

So why was the TMO allowed to intervene in the decision re Maitland?

Foul play.

You can not have it both ways

Deliberate knock on vs deliberate offside - either both can be tmo or neither

No difference

Joubert is a disgrace and after the 2011 World Cup final should never be allowed to ref again. He bottles it too often

Where was the two for the delibrate taking out of Hogg

As usual the rugby World Cup is f ed by decisions.

It is pointless being a small nation. You are not allowed to get above your station

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Post by R!skysports Sun 18 Oct 2015, 10:54 pm

An hour after the match, Phipps confirmed that there was intent on his part to play the ball when it hit him, which is hugely significant, as it means he effectively played Welsh onside. Thus, the quick call made by Joubert was wrong, which means this was not just a system malfunction but a miscarriage of justice.


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Post by BigGee Sun 18 Oct 2015, 10:59 pm

I am so proud to be a Scottish rugby fan today and how often have I been able to say that over the past 20 years!

It is an awful way to lose a game, knowing we were done by a very poor refereeing decision, which was not his only one in the game.

However I also agree that we should have closed out the game and not left it in the refs hands. The truth is this game came to soon for us, you have to learn how to win these tight games and we just don't have that experience.

We do know now that we can play with the big boys now and that's what we need to be aiming to do from here on in.

All in all, its been a very good WC for Scotland. We achieved our goals and exceeded expectations. Maybe other teams will not take us so lightly from here on in.

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Post by TJ Sun 18 Oct 2015, 11:01 pm

No risky - on the deliberate knock on there wa potentially a try nscoring opportunity so TMO use correct.  On the final call there was not - so no TMO - the laws governing this have been stated several times on this thread.  

You need to understand the laws. Joubert applied the laws correctly to what he saw. End of it. did it brush Phipps fingers - maybe maybe not. It is not clear and Phipps intent to touch the ball makes no difference

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Post by R!skysports Sun 18 Oct 2015, 11:08 pm

TJ wrote:No risky - on the deliberate knock on there wa potentially a try nscoring opportunity so TMO use correct.  On the final call there was not - so no TMO - the laws governing this have been stated several times on this thread.  

You need to understand the laws.  Joubert applied the laws correctly to what he saw.  End of it.  did it brush Phipps fingers - maybe maybe not.  It is not clear and Phipps intent to touch the ball makes no difference

Sorry but the first one was so far away from a possible try scoring opportunity. He was even angling for a penalty try. He had in his mind the outcome of this match

Are these the same laws you said I needed to understand on the ford and gray bans, which I seemed to get quite right that time angel

TMO or not he got the call wrong and favoured the top ranked side decision after decision . He always does and it stole a chance

Yes we should have secured the ball in the line out and if we had lost due to good play or even a proper error, would be gutted and sad, but to be cheated out of it again devalues both the game and Australia (who we very god again)

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Post by boomeranga Sun 18 Oct 2015, 11:15 pm

Commiserations Scots. Your team put in a terrific performance. Beat us at the scrum and played a better game at the breakdown. The two areas we have been strongest this tournament.

I think we are nearly done. Arg have momentum and are playing very well, whereas we have probably flattered to deceive with a good performance against England but only holding on v Wales and v Scotland.

Still, 12 months ago Oz rugby was self-destructing and I would have taken a final four finish as a great result. Cheika has done a terrific job.

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Post by R!skysports Sun 18 Oct 2015, 11:18 pm

boomeranga wrote:Commiserations Scots.  Your team put in a terrific performance.  Beat us at the scrum and played a better game at the breakdown.  The two areas we have been strongest this tournament.

I think we are nearly done.  Arg have momentum and are playing very well, whereas we have probably flattered to deceive with a good performance against England but only holding on v Wales and v Scotland.

Still, 12 months ago Oz rugby was self-destructing and I would have taken a final four finish as a great result.  Cheika has done a terrific job.

And well played. You team had some great tries and it was a ding dong match

The ranting above is nothing against the Ozzie team, just our chance at a semi final Hug

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Post by boomeranga Sun 18 Oct 2015, 11:36 pm

No worries at all Risky. The emotion is why we all enjoy it so much.

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Post by rainbow-warrior Mon 19 Oct 2015, 5:09 am

Terribly unlucky Scotland, did your nation proud. The 6 Nations will be all the better for you guys emerging into a really exciting and skilled team thumbsup
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Post by bsando Mon 19 Oct 2015, 5:54 am

No way I am going to get angry at Joubert for Scotland failing to control a Lineout. Such a shame, Bennett had won the game for Scotland and wallabies fans were literally shell shocked when he ran straight under the posts. 4 mins to go, in control of the ball. Just hold onto it!!!! picard picard picard picard picard

However, Scotland did very well and looked a great side for a lot of the game. I'm sure they earned a few new fans and a bit more respect on the world stage.

Pumped for the 6N!

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Post by George Carlin Mon 19 Oct 2015, 6:34 am

Perhaps Joubert was just dying for a slash?
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