Shanghai Masters

First topic message reminder :

May as well get a topic started. Things have started with a bang, with Roger going down to Ramos Vinolas in three sets.

Born Slippy wrote:Djokovic still the youngest winner of a Masters event with only one more to go this year. A position he has now held for 8 years. Astonishing!

Del Potro made at least 4 finals that I can recall and was competitive in all of them I think. But he is, what, one year younger?
Nishikori made one final and definitely had his chances.
Raonic has made 2 finals I think, but was well outplayed both times.

Am I missing any other players younger than Djokovic to even make a Masters final?

Looking at rankings/race points between Murray and Federer. If Murray loses today, he is 320 points ahead in rankings. Both lose 500 points next week when Valencia/Basel points drop. The following week, Federer can then add points in Basel and Murray isn't playing, so a Basel title would see Federer back at no.2. However, Paris seeding will be done before the Basel points go on. Therefore Murray is already guaranteed second seed in Paris thus avoiding Djokovic which puts him in a good position to keep ahead in the race and get second seeding at the WTF also.

At least, there some rankings suspense since the year end no.1 and the 8 WTF slots have been pretty much sewn up for ages.

I think the above is right anyway - though one thing I am not sure about. I believe that Murray has to get a zero pointer for not playing an ATP500 after the US Open. Does this replace any existing points? I think it should just replace Washington which was a zero anyway, but maybe it replaces Rotterdam or Dubai.

Seeing that point just sinks the heart

1:6 the first set and the scoreline was still flattering Andy.

Better start to the second set from him. Broken back though.

1:6 the first set and the scoreline was still flattering Andy.

Better start to the second set from him. Broken back though.

1:6 the first set and the scoreline was still flattering Andy.

Better start to the second set from him. Broken back though.

Murray should get some sort of fine for his language. And his Mum should give him a telling off. It's pretty disgraceful.

Oops, triple post???

JuliusHMarx wrote:Murray should get some sort of fine for his language. And his Mum should give him a telling off. It's pretty disgraceful.

Go back to old-fashioned parenting and wash his mouth out with soap!

I have to say it is disgraceful today.

Oh Andy wake the f up man

all gone now 6:1 4:1

Tsonga the man

legendkillarV2 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:Murray should get some sort of fine for his language. And his Mum should give him a telling off. It's pretty disgraceful.

Go back to old-fashioned parenting and wash his mouth out with soap!

I have to say it is disgraceful today.

What happened? Please quote fully the disgraceful text, I thought you have become more immune to nasty stuff

Jahu wrote:Oh Andy wake the f up man

He is playing $hit3. Errors-galore, no second serve, double-faults coming out of his mouth and ar$$. Pretty

Tsonga 0-6 second set is unlikely to get more than 3 games of Djokovic.

Djokovic in third gear?  Murray - car is on the bricks, someone has taken the wheels?

I think I'd be swearing if I was up against current day Novak and also making the task harder by flunking shots

I'm glad he is angry with himself. I'm fuming

Djokovic has been impressive so far.

Look no matter how hacked off I might be, I have to acknowledge that Novak is playing superb and deserves far more praise than he gets

We are privileged to have him, Rafa and Roger playing at the same time and it's obvious that this is a unique trio - simply because Andy is so far ahead of the rest in achievements

Andy beat him at Canada and has to come back and try and beat him the next time

However, this was a disappointing defeat as Murray is at the peak of his form

Murray 1st serve in: 46%
Murray 2nd serve points won: 27%

That second serve continues to be a stumbling block.

laverfan wrote:

Jahu wrote:Oh Andy wake the f up man

He is playing $hit3. Errors-galore, no second serve, double-faults coming out of his mouth and ar$$. Pretty

never seen you this animated LF!

Tomorrow is Novak's 7th Masters final of the year, which is apparently a record.

Today also moved his record v top ten players to 24-4 in 2015.

Impressive numbers.

Shame - I really thought this had potential to be a great match. Andy couldn't find yesterday's form when he needed it. Another great win for Novak though. Light years ahead of the field at present.

HM Murdock wrote:Tomorrow is Novak's 7th Masters final of the year, which is apparently a record.

Today also moved his record v top ten players to 24-4 in 2015.

Impressive numbers.

Extremely impressive.

Looks like there's only one man who can give Djokovic a game, and he's in his 35th year.

I see that the now 'mature' Murray chose to blame his own team for his thrashing again.

Same old, same old

Djoko is better in every important asset of the game than Murray. Scary how far he is ahead of the new no2.

To focus on Murrays shortcomings (funny how these have been absent lately), gives no credit to Novak, who is frankly miles ahead of anybody, and deservedly so.
Short of tiredness of very very specific conditions or circumstances, it seems nearly impossible to down him. Hes turning in 06 Federer numbers, thats how amazing it is.

Jo, I luv ya man but I aint puttin no money on you son...

temporary21 wrote:To focus on Murrays shortcomings (funny how these have been absent lately), gives no credit to Novak, who is frankly miles ahead of anybody, and deservedly so.
Short of tiredness of very very specific conditions or circumstances, it seems nearly impossible to down him. Hes turning in 06 Federer numbers, thats how amazing it is.

Thoroughly agree. It's only when the conditions are at their fastest that Andy or Roger have a better than even chance. If there's heat as well, they become the favourite. Problem is this occurs little more than once per year and not necessarily at an event where they are all competing

Nore Staat wrote:Semi-Final Line Up
Djokovic vs Murray
Nadal vs Tsonga

Spot the odd one out.

I know I am cheating answering this after seeing the matches but I know which one did not belong.

Good luck Tsonga!

Amazing stuff from Novak, really expected a tight match today. Turning into an incredible season for djokovic

Well seeing that, I hope I am right about Murray not being able to meet Djokovic again before the Paris final - although if Murray plays like today, he's not going to get near that anyway. As well as Djokovic played, Murray's serve just fell away from the previous rounds. 41% first serves in, 8% of second serves won in the first set. Ouch!

summerblues wrote:

Nore Staat wrote:Semi-Final Line Up
Djokovic vs Murray
Nadal vs Tsonga

Spot the odd one out.

I know I am cheating answering this after seeing the matches but I know which one did not belong.

Harsh (but true)

I suppose if Tsonga gets crushed as has everyone else in Djokovic's path in Asia then it's Djokovic that's the odd one out. Saw this stat on Twitter: Novak's last 18 sets: 1,1,2,1,2,2,2,3,2,2,2,1,2,3,6,1,1,3 including Ferrer, Isner, Nadal, Murray.

YvonneT wrote:

summerblues wrote:

Nore Staat wrote:Semi-Final Line Up
Djokovic vs Murray
Nadal vs Tsonga

Spot the odd one out.

I know I am cheating answering this after seeing the matches but I know which one did not belong.

Harsh (but true)

I suppose if Tsonga gets crushed as has everyone else in Djokovic's path in Asia then it's Djokovic that's the odd one out. Saw this stat on Twitter: Novak's last 18 sets: 1,1,2,1,2,2,2,3,2,2,2,1,2,3,6,1,1,3 including Ferrer, Isner, Nadal, Murray.

This amazing stats shows that Novak is playing in an incredible form, but also that he is such a nice human. He just does not have such a heart to hand out bagels to his opponents.

Somewhere at tennis foru I have read, that the best chance to win a set against Novak has Ivo Karlovic currently

legendkillarV2 wrote:

laverfan wrote:

Jahu wrote:Oh Andy wake the f up man

He is playing $hit3. Errors-galore, no second serve, double-faults coming out of his mouth and ar$$. Pretty

never seen you this animated LF!

I just see wasted talent. . Thanks LK, I needed the .

laverfan wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

laverfan wrote:

Jahu wrote:Oh Andy wake the f up man

He is playing $hit3. Errors-galore, no second serve, double-faults coming out of his mouth and ar$$. Pretty

never seen you this animated LF!

I just see wasted talent. . Thanks LK, I needed the .

Wasted or just lack of application? 

I just think mentally he receeds when faced with a better opponent.

Murray didn't serve well because of the guy across the net he was doubling because when he would hit his normal second he was losing yes over 90 percent of the points in the first set. Amazing level by Novak he can just do it all on a tennis court. A lot of Murray's errors come from the pressure of knowing how many great shots he has to hit to win a point. No freebies while at the same time Novak was not just rallying he was stepping in and being aggressive at every first opportunity. I think he is better than 2011 at this stage in his career. If he can hold this up all the big trophies will be his sooner or later. Since 2011 Djokovic's has more hard court trophies 28 than he has hard court defeats 25.

At some point people are going to have to accept that he is a two time slam winning, wimbledon winning, home gold medallist with multiple masters, but isnt Novak djokovic. Without getting annoyed at him.
Lack of application or waste are words that frankly insult what Murrays done, he is simply not as good, that's all it is.

Novak is a master, he plays a way that forces you to look bad, all those angry errors and double faults arent because hes a waster, hes no other option left, Novak has wrenched every other option away

Why do you think Fed felt that he needed SABR to even dent Djokovic?

Murrays serve is a weak as glass against Novak, the off season objective will be to try and do something about this, other than that theres nothing else that can be done, just try again, chances might come.

temporary21 wrote:At some point people are going to have to accept that he is a two time slam winning, wimbledon winning, home gold medallist with multiple masters, but isnt Novak djokovic. Without getting annoyed at him.
Lack of application or waste are words that frankly insult what Murrays done, he is simply not as good, that's all it is.

Andy is certainly not as good as Novak - and that is an understatement too.  Still, it is too simplistic to brush off any criticisms of Andy with just that.  The way Andy played - especially in that first set - was embarrassing.  He barely held the first game and it got much worse after that.  He lost the remaining 6 games of the set, winning a total of 3 (!!!) points in them.  I can to some extent understand DFs - he needs to go for more as his usual second serve gets destroyed.  But he only got 41% of the first serves in in that first set.  Also, as good as Nole is, he is not good enough to limit a well playing Andy to 3 points in 6 games.  To top it off, Andy also acted like a petulant little brat.

Even at his best he would have likely lost, and possibly lost quite easily.  But let that not mask the fact that he played horrible.

temporary21 wrote:Why do you think Fed felt that he needed SABR to even dent Djokovic?

That is a little bit different no?  Fed is 34 and cannot run much anymore; if anything it is rather impressive he is able to somewhat compensate.  I understand that Andy is also older than Nole, but in his case the age gap is nowhere near as formidable.

Yeah he played badly today, we all know that Andy needs to play more above his average than Novak does to win, so when hes off he can get pasted... like everyone else whos off this year has been pasted.

His anger was because he couldnt bring his game, perfectionists very commonly have that fault, if he was doing that bad and he just shrugged and said "f*** it", thats when I would be very worried.

A bad match does not suggest hes wasted his talents or hasnt applied himself properly, I feel thats too knee jerk.

Fed might be 34, but he still moves very well and still hits a very mean ball.
Im not sure it deserves special mention that hes hanging onto the younger guys coat tails despite age, hes Federer, I fully expected him to be able to do that anyway, Andre did it, Roger shouldnt have trouble, its not like his tennis has noticeably dropped off a cliff or anything.

Hell continue to be up there until his actual tennis level drops down, by physical impairment. (not just getting tired faster), or loss of interest

The SABR is a testament to one, Feds handskills, but also to what Novaks doing. People are going outside the room the box is in to try and find something to unsettle him, (still think just working on brave orthodox returns would be more effective but...).

Im disappointed with the way Murray played this match. Watching Tomic pushed Novak in the QF match, I was thinking then that Murray would do better than Tomic, as Murray is a better version of Tomic. If Tomic could vary his pace of shots to make Novak guessing, Murray could do even better; that Rome 2011 SF came to my mind.

Novak might be playing better in the SF, understandably upping his level but Murray was so bad that Novak actually didnt need to do much. Murray was just trying to out rally Novak, it wont happen. Nadal tried that in the Beijing final and failed; no one can succeed unless its that Stan of FO winning form.

I was hoping that Murray would use his change of pace tactics and net approaches to at least gave himself chance to be competitive and found a way to win. I thought Fed's play at Cincy and also last year at Shanghai were inspiration enough for others to learn how to deal with this Novak even though not everyone can be Fed but still...

Lets see what Tsonga can bring to the match. Can he play something like Delpo in 2013 Shanghai final? I hope so though i think not likely.

temporary21 wrote:Murrays serve is a weak as glass against Novak, the off season objective will be to try and do something about this, other than that theres nothing else that can be done, just try again, chances might come.

I beg to differ.

That's murray playing at his best. He only just won and his serve was under constant seige. You're expectations are too high

summerblues wrote: I can to some extent understand DFs - he needs to go for more as his usual second serve gets destroyed.  But he only got 41% of the first serves in in that first set.  Also, as good as Nole is, he is not good enough to limit a well playing Andy to 3 points in 6 games.  To top it off, Andy also acted like a petulant little brat.

Even at his best he would have likely lost, and possibly lost quite easily.  But let that not mask the fact that he played horrible.

Agree with all those points.

Well, Djoko (6-2, 6-4) wraps up yet another title. He just dropped just one point on serve in the second set, according to the stats. This is turning into an even more-dominating year for Nole than 2011. He seems unbeatable at the moment.

It's an amazing year that Djokovic is having.

Novak djokovic is two days on horseback ahead of the field.

This level of dominance is unprecedented. Look at the gap between him and number 2.

He is staking his claim as the greatest ever.

dj the commentator said that.

I know. I was watching on starz sport. Find it really funny